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Still splitting hairs and a pissing contest i see. Not so special.

dshibb said:   christoj879 said:   dshibb said:   JCranfill said:   My FIL owns two, one through Diamond, one through Interval. You know who makes out like a bandit from timeshares? Family members that get to stay for free when the owner can't use it. He wouldnt listen to me when I advised him not to buy them, and since then he's been paying a stupid tax each year by giving me his unused points.

He seems to think we are going to keep them after he passes. 'Im giving you a vacation you have to use every year.' Nope. They'll go away with the rest of his estate.


An interesting little tidbit about the timeshare industry is the issue of inheritance. The industry wants to make it a requirement that it be included in the estate and passed to the heirs which is literally retarded and would never fly. But that tells you right there that these things really are liabilities. But since they can't claim they are liabilities they can't put a claim on the assets of the estate to recover their losses. So they just end up taking them back at death.


Which reminds me of the only smart move I ever thought of in the timeshare space. Once you're positive your going to die soon offer to take anybody's time share off of them for like $2k+ each and then when you collect like 100 of them die pass your kids the cash, but send all of the $hitty timeshares back to the $hitty timeshare companies. LOL!


Paging Joseph Caramadre...


If you're dead who cares? Who can they file asinine criminal charges against? The only they can try to do is file a claim against the estate, but that would come with them arguing that they're essentially liabilities. This is called a lose lose situation for them here.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't check with an attorney before executing something like this!


I didn't mean it like that - I think it's an awesome idea and something he could get into since he already has the structure in place.

So given that buying into a share can be a good idea as essntially a membership fee to the RCI exchange, that leaves me with two questions, is there a limit to the points you can buy off other people, and do you have to personally stay when you use point to reserve a property? E.g. could I just buy points off of someone already in the system (perhaps even with a nominal premium) and still get in on the good RCI deals without having to own a timeshare myself?

csdx said:   So given that buying into a share can be a good idea as essntially a membership fee to the RCI exchange, that leaves me with two questions, is there a limit to the points you can buy off other people, and do you have to personally stay when you use point to reserve a property? E.g. could I just buy points off of someone already in the system (perhaps even with a nominal premium) and still get in on the good RCI deals without having to own a timeshare myself?

To my knowledge, there is no limit to the amount of points you can rent from other people in a year. If you are getting an RCI timeshare for someone - you will have to purchase a guest certificate for them. You also have to assert you're not selling it to them (that's the grey area where some people make money in this world - they churn guest certificates until they get shut down...)

Since you have to have an RCI membership to have the points transferred into your account - I don't think there's a way of getting out of actually owning a timeshare. I honestly don't even know what timeshare I own because it's immediately turned into points. Theoretically, I can always stay there for free in any given year, but it's some craphole I had zero interest in visiting.

Horseymen said:   csdx said:   So given that buying into a share can be a good idea as essntially a membership fee to the RCI exchange, that leaves me with two questions, is there a limit to the points you can buy off other people, and do you have to personally stay when you use point to reserve a property? E.g. could I just buy points off of someone already in the system (perhaps even with a nominal premium) and still get in on the good RCI deals without having to own a timeshare myself?

To my knowledge, there is no limit to the amount of points you can rent from other people in a year. If you are getting an RCI timeshare for someone - you will have to purchase a guest certificate for them. You also have to assert you're not selling it to them (that's the grey area where some people make money in this world - they churn guest certificates until they get shut down...)

Since you have to have an RCI membership to have the points transferred into your account - I don't think there's a way of getting out of actually owning a timeshare. I honestly don't even know what timeshare I own because it's immediately turned into points. Theoretically, I can always stay there for free in any given year, but it's some craphole I had zero interest in visiting.


Just curious what is the lowest sustainable maintenance fees you've ever come across for an RCI membership? $300? $250? Less?

For the fun of it, I went and looked - and pretty quickly found this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10k-RCI-Points-GLOBAL-Exchange-VACATION-...

10k points for $132 - not quite the 1:1 ratio but may be good for someone who wants to get in with limited yearly exposure to rent points..

Horseymen said:   For the fun of it, I went and looked - and pretty quickly found this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10k-RCI-Points-GLOBAL-Exchange-VACATION-...

10k points for $132 - not quite the 1:1 ratio but may be good for someone who wants to get in with limited yearly exposure to rent points..


So the market has changed since a couple years ago, right? You used to have to get a specific timeshare and then exchange for points in RCI. Or some companies had their own point system that would first convert to a specific timeshare within themselves and then you could go on RCI to exchange that time share for pts to go for a different one.

Now they're just selling timeshare points straight up with it not even corresponding to a specific timeshare?


What is also $hitty is that you have to drop another $1k on fees just to get the ownership transferred to you.

US Bankruptcy trustees will not take ANY timeshare as an asset. The value is always $0. You can keep it or have your obligation to continue to pay them discharged, but they want nothing to do with it. This should show anyone what a great deal they are.

dshibb said:   Horseymen said:   For the fun of it, I went and looked - and pretty quickly found this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10k-RCI-Points-GLOBAL-Exchange-VACATION-...

10k points for $132 - not quite the 1:1 ratio but may be good for someone who wants to get in with limited yearly exposure to rent points..


So the market has changed since a couple years ago, right? You used to have to get a specific timeshare and then exchange for points in RCI. Or some companies had their own point system that would first convert to a specific timeshare within themselves and then you could go on RCI to exchange that time share for pts to go for a different one.

Now they're just selling timeshare points straight up with it not even corresponding to a specific timeshare?


What is also $hitty is that you have to drop another $1k on fees just to get the ownership transferred to you.


They are usually attached to a property - but I don't know what mine is because it's insignificant to the points. I'm sure this one has a small property.

I suspect one could negotiate closing fees down with this one - but it would get you in the system! One could probably save the $1000 in the first Disney trip they were going to take anyway..

vipercon said:   US Bankruptcy trustees will not take ANY timeshare as an asset. The value is always $0. You can keep it or have your obligation to continue to pay them discharged, but they want nothing to do with it. This should show anyone what a great deal they are.I just ran a few searches and saw that that's just not true.

If you disagree, please let me know where I can pick up a Ritz-Carlton Club timeshare to one of the prime ski destinations for free (the original price is $225,000-$275,000). I will gladly pay the annual fees.

I don't think that there is any debate that on average timeshares are an absolutely atrocious purchase. There are situations and circumstances, however, where they can represent a very good deal, particularly on the secondary market. For the record, I've never owned a timeshare but if you can get me a prime ski destination Ritz-Carlton Club timeshare for free, I'll gladly become a timeshare owner.

P.S.
Are you telling me that the value of this timeshare is $0? Yes, between property taxes and association dues you'll be paying about $13,000/year but, when you rent it out for just 1 week in the winter, it's either completely or almost completely covered and, depending on when the week is, you may actually turn a profit. Just the lift tickets that you get with this timeshare are worth about $500-$600 per day.

Are you also telling me that the value of this timeshare is also $0 (yes, the asking price really is $625,000) and it's at the Park Hyatt in Beaver Creek. The asking price is obviously completely unrealistic here but it comes with Christmas and New Year's weeks and is a 2,000 sq. ft. 3 bedroom/3 bathroom. Renting it for just one of those weeks will exceed the annual association dues.

Horseymen said:   For the fun of it, I went and looked - and pretty quickly found this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10k-RCI-Points-GLOBAL-Exchange-VACATION-...

10k points for $132 - not quite the 1:1 ratio but may be good for someone who wants to get in with limited yearly exposure to rent points..


that's not how I read that auction.
"Total monies due = Final Bid Price + $399 (Closing Costs) + $299 (Resort Transfer Fee) + $222 (RCI Transfer Fee) "

DShibb's question was the cheapest yearly residual to get into RCI - I've found one for $130. Yes, there are closing costs - but there would be closing costs for many of them. The fact they're trying to get closing costs out of this probably highlights it's a good deal. The one I looked at before that one was 39k points, no closing costs for $700 a year in MF's. Meaning someone is paying someone to get rid of that one for them (which speaks volumes)

If you for instance know you're going to Disney in the next 12 months - doing this could pay for itself with only $130 out of pocket in year 2 - at which point you'd begin to profit. And yes, I'd probably try to negotiate on closing costs too - but RCI transfer fee is pretty universal as is the Resort Transfer Fee. It's just exaggerated because of the low cost of the timeshare.

Edited to add: I don't think this is a good deal - which highlights why it hasn't sold, but it might be a good deal for someone who only wants to perpetually rent and just get into the program as a membership cost. I haven't seen any cheaper. Since you're basically stuck with the MF fee for life - if you look at this over 30-40 years, that closing cost amortizes pretty cheaply over the long-run, meanwhile the other person is stuck with $700-800 fees for life..

imbatman said:   Horseymen said:   For the fun of it, I went and looked - and pretty quickly found this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10k-RCI-Points-GLOBAL-Exchange-VACATION-...

10k points for $132 - not quite the 1:1 ratio but may be good for someone who wants to get in with limited yearly exposure to rent points..


that's not how I read that auction.
"Total monies due = Final Bid Price + $399 (Closing Costs) + $299 (Resort Transfer Fee) + $222 (RCI Transfer Fee) "

So you're saying that it costs $132 to buy it, but actually costs $1050 to buy it?

That doesn't sound like a good deal.

I would be curious to know if anyone found a way to join RCI without owning a timeshare.

imbatman said:   So you're saying that it costs $132 to buy it, but actually costs $1050 to buy it?

That doesn't sound like a good deal.


DShibb's concern is residual cost.

Over 10 years, it would cost as little as $2300 to own that timeshare - with potentially $10,000 savings at DVC resorts vs. the rental market.

Or you can buy a $700 dollar a year timeshare with no closing costs for 10 years - and you're out $7000 over a 10 year period. His concern (which may not be yours) is lowest cost to get into the game.

Horseymen said:   imbatman said:   So you're saying that it costs $132 to buy it, but actually costs $1050 to buy it?

That doesn't sound like a good deal.


DShibb's concern is residual cost.

Over 10 years, it would cost as little as $2300 to own that timeshare - with potentially $10,000 savings at DVC resorts vs. the rental market.

Or you can buy a $700 dollar a year timeshare with no closing costs for 10 years - and you're out $7000 over a 10 year period. His concern (which may not be yours) is lowest cost to get into the game.


ok, the 132 isn't to buy it. That's the maintenance fees.

to your point, you would get into the market, and over 10 years pay 2300 for 100,000 RCI points (10k/year).

My concern is not dshibbs concern. I have no intention of getting into the game. i've been reading and wanted to clarify/understand your post.
I'll be inheriting an RCI property one of these days from FIL. I'll need to decide if I want to keep it or not (leaning towards not).

If you're going to travel, and you have a decent ratio of Maintenance Fees to Points, it would seem worthwhile to keep. If traveling isn't your thing - then dump it. You'll be on the hook for MF's and RCI yearly memberships for life - and if you can't get the value out of it - it'll just be a liability.

If these timeshares are so hard to get rid of, how come I can't find anyone willing to pay me to take their timeshare off their hands?

avalon6 said:   If these timeshares are so hard to get rid of, how come I can't find anyone willing to pay me to take their timeshare off their hands?

Those situations exist. There are companies that have started up charging people to get rid of their timeshares. Some of them use rather interesting methods such as trying to sell the timeshare to a dummy company and then have the company default and go out of business.

... and the kicker is they want to charge you thousands to do so.

avalon6 said:   I would be curious to know if anyone found a way to join RCI without owning a timeshare.

I'm not very familiar with the particulars of the RCI stuff, but couldn't you go in as partners with someone on an RCI membership (split the initial cost of the timeshare, closing costs and maintenance fees)?

Then you'd get membership access for half the "regular" price, and each person could "rent" the additional needed points as needed for their own individual trips?

Obviously you run the risk of the other party defaulting on their 1/2 of the annual fees, but if you do it with a trusted friend or family member, with the understanding that you might eventually responsible for the entire ongoing cost, I'd say it's still a better deal than going into it solo and having no choice but absorbing all the costs yourself.

civ2k1 said:   avalon6 said:   I would be curious to know if anyone found a way to join RCI without owning a timeshare.

I'm not very familiar with the particulars of the RCI stuff, but couldn't you go in as partners with someone on an RCI membership (split the initial cost of the timeshare, closing costs and maintenance fees)?

Then you'd get membership access for half the "regular" price, and each person could "rent" the additional needed points as needed for their own individual trips?

Obviously you run the risk of the other party defaulting on their 1/2 of the annual fees, but if you do it with a trusted friend or family member, with the understanding that you might eventually responsible for the entire ongoing cost, I'd say it's still a better deal than going into it solo and having no choice but absorbing all the costs yourself.


Thought of that as well.

everyone gets their panties all tangled up when the word timeshare is mentioned

some are liquid --- some are not

go to Tug2 or eBay ---- if there are completed sales on eBay for your unit --- you probably can sell it too

The idea of using a cheap timeshare to gain entry into the RCI network is interesting. I travel often, sometimes at last minute to destinations with RCI affiliated resorts. I could never make the timeshare financials work to my favor so have ignored it thus far, but the idea of using this secondary market to reduce my costs for the same experience is compelling. I did a quick search on "free or $1" timeshares for sale and easily found two that convert on a 0.50 cents maintenance fee to 1 point on RCI. Closing costs are on par. This is far better than the 1:1 ratio that Horseymen is suggesting is a "good" deal and better than the OP's. I understand that there are various fees involved in RCI membership and exchange fees to get into another property, so the net ratio will be slightly higher. I am comfortable with the annual maintenance costs and will have no problem spending out the converted points.

Am I missing something here, or could this actually work? And why shouldn't I buy several of these 1:2 converting timeshares instead of renting points at 1:1?

Years ago, my parents owned an RCI timeshare at a craphole in the Poconos. Back in the 70s and 80s, they used to game the system by putting the unit up for trade every year to vacation at another resort. What they figured out early on is that when your unit that you put up for trade was still available when the week you owned arrived, you could use your unit in addition to the other week that you traded for. Early on before timeshares took off in the late 80s, there were many units at properties all over the world at any given time that had unused weeks, so for many years, we had two weeks of vacation for the price of one. This died off in the late 80s when timeshares were in their heyday.

Another change was sometime after Cendant came in the picture in 1997, but I can't recall the year. RCI used to list their unused weeks on a members only website and RCI members could book some sweet "extra vacations". The big change, when it happened, was that the prime properties and weeks were not being listed on their website anymore. RCI/Cendant were offering them out their back door for resellers to fill. Only the crap unrentable properties were left for the members.

Long story short, if you were in the game early on, you could have done well. Today, I would never touch a timeshare.

dshibb said:   
Which reminds me of the only smart move I ever thought of in the timeshare space. Once you're positive your going to die soon offer to take anybody's time share off of them for like $2k+ each and then when you collect like 100 of them die pass your kids the cash, but send all of the $hitty timeshares back to the $hitty timeshare companies. LOL!


Y'know, a business that scouted through obituaries and then forged backdated agreements between the deceased and timeshare owners... that would probably make a <dishonest> fortune.

perc said:   The idea of using a cheap timeshare to gain entry into the RCI network is interesting. I travel often, sometimes at last minute to destinations with RCI affiliated resorts. I could never make the timeshare financials work to my favor so have ignored it thus far, but the idea of using this secondary market to reduce my costs for the same experience is compelling. I did a quick search on "free or $1" timeshares for sale and easily found two that convert on a 0.50 cents maintenance fee to 1 point on RCI. Closing costs are on par. This is far better than the 1:1 ratio that Horseymen is suggesting is a "good" deal and better than the OP's. I understand that there are various fees involved in RCI membership and exchange fees to get into another property, so the net ratio will be slightly higher. I am comfortable with the annual maintenance costs and will have no problem spending out the converted points.

Am I missing something here, or could this actually work? And why shouldn't I buy several of these 1:2 converting timeshares instead of renting points at 1:1?


Of course it could work. You're doing the leg work I mentioned could turn timesharing into a lucrative, perhaps money-making proposition at the right level.

As DShibb mentioned - your risk is that you have a lifetime, likely inflating expense that never goes away. Depending on your own personal level of risk tolerance and what percent of your income that is - that might be worth it. For the most part, there is nothing stopping a timeshare company from deciding it wants to upgrade to be as good as the Four Seasons, and charge everyone a 21,000 dollar special assessment, and foreclose/ding your credit if you don't pay. That is your risk. It rarely happens, but you do see some hurricane-based horror stories when you read.

I'm still a huge proponent of Timeshares. For our first summer trip - we're spending two weeks at the Marriot Newport Coast Villas.

http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/laxnc-marriotts-newport-co...

This place is considered by Redweek.com to be the #1 non-Disney timeshare in the Continental US. This place is gorgeous. Granite everything. Double shower. Stonework. Two bedrooms. 1200 square feet. Tempurpedic beds. Balcony. Ocean view. This place is a creme de la creme. Free internet. Pools overlooking the ocean. Everything you could want. Rack rate is $350 a night.

Looking on E-bay, buying into the property costs you about $6,000 up front and $950 maintenance fees yearly to get a week from Week 1 to 22. I rented for $1000 each week. No taxes and no other fees. They covered their maintenance fees and technically profited, depending how they psychologically amortize their up-front fees.

I seriously don't understand why many on this website are not promoting timeshares more for those who love and value traveling. I guess not enough do. We're flying out on miles. Staying at a 5 star property for a 2.5 star price. To me, this would be the epitome of the Fatwallet way.

Dshibb will probably remind everyone that I am renting, and he doesn't hate renting, he just doesn't see the value in owning - but if you can find the right deals, AND you value traveling.. why not?

Horseymen said:   I'm still a huge proponent of Timeshares. For our first summer trip - we're spending two weeks at the Marriot Newport Coast Villas.

http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/laxnc-marriotts-newport-co...

This place is considered by Redweek.com to be the #1 non-Disney timeshare in the Continental US. This place is gorgeous. Granite everything. Double shower. Stonework. Two bedrooms. 1200 square feet. Tempurpedic beds. Balcony. Ocean view. This place is a creme de la creme. Free internet. Pools overlooking the ocean. Everything you could want. Rack rate is $350 a night.

Looking on E-bay, buying into the property costs you about $6,000 up front and $950 maintenance fees yearly to get a week from Week 1 to 22. I rented for $1000 each week. No taxes and no other fees. They covered their maintenance fees and technically profited, depending how they psychologically amortize their up-front fees.

I seriously don't understand why many on this website are not promoting timeshares more for those who love and value traveling. I guess not enough do. We're flying out on miles. Staying at a 5 star property for a 2.5 star price. To me, this would be the epitome of the Fatwallet way.
With the caveat that I know nothing about this property but it does look like a very nice property and a good deal, from what I can see it's not even close to being a 5-star property. Tripadvisor, for instance, rates it 3.5 stars, which is generally consistent with most people's understanding of a decent Marriott property. A $350/night rack rate on a 2-bedroom Marriott makes it a somewhat middle of the road one as well.

Anyway, my point isn't to try to crap on this property (and, as I mentioned above, it does seem fairly nice and it sounds like you're getting a good deal). My point is that personally, I am interested in learning some new tricks for getting killer deals on ultra-high end properties. Are there interesting ways that RCI or other timeshare programs can allow us to do that?

Horseymen said:   your risk is that you have a lifetime, likely inflating expense that never goes away.Do they require personal guarantees or is it possible to purchase it through an SPE (single purpose entity), such that if the timeshare company decides not to play nice, you have the option of just letting them pursue their recourse against a judgment proof SPE and completely avoid personal exposure?

geo123 said:   Horseymen said:   your risk is that you have a lifetime, likely inflating expense that never goes away.Do they require personal guarantees or is it possible to purchase it through an SPE (single purpose entity), such that if the timeshare company decides not to play nice, you have the option of just letting them pursue their recourse against a judgment proof SPE and completely avoid personal exposure?
One of my previous employers owned several time shares that were allocated out to employees based on performance or for team building trips. I see no reason why an individual couldn't title the timeshare to an LLC that he or she owns. While legal counsel should be consulted, I would guess that the normal practices to "protect" the corporate veil would apply. Also, one could add a layer or two such as titling the timeshare to an LLC owned by a holding corp owned by a trust. It would seem unlikely that the timeshare developer would pursue a delinquent owner beyond foreclosure for a relatively small sum of money beyond the named in the title.

I suspect that accounting may be a slightly larger problem.

Anyway, I think a financial prerequisite for owning a timeshare is that one must have reasonable expectations for current and future income such that the total expense of lifetime ownership should fall into the "disposable" category - well after addressing retirement funds, education funds, investments, insurances, etc. It is a potential way to reduce the expense for the same experience that would be incurred anyway. The problem I have now is gauging timeshare exchange costs and availability - can I really get the same experience at the places and times I want them. All these fees and procedures for getting into premium locations at premium weeks are very dissuasive.

geo123 said:   Horseymen said:   I'm still a huge proponent of Timeshares. For our first summer trip - we're spending two weeks at the Marriot Newport Coast Villas.

http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/laxnc-marriotts-newport-co...

This place is considered by Redweek.com to be the #1 non-Disney timeshare in the Continental US. This place is gorgeous. Granite everything. Double shower. Stonework. Two bedrooms. 1200 square feet. Tempurpedic beds. Balcony. Ocean view. This place is a creme de la creme. Free internet. Pools overlooking the ocean. Everything you could want. Rack rate is $350 a night.

Looking on E-bay, buying into the property costs you about $6,000 up front and $950 maintenance fees yearly to get a week from Week 1 to 22. I rented for $1000 each week. No taxes and no other fees. They covered their maintenance fees and technically profited, depending how they psychologically amortize their up-front fees.

I seriously don't understand why many on this website are not promoting timeshares more for those who love and value traveling. I guess not enough do. We're flying out on miles. Staying at a 5 star property for a 2.5 star price. To me, this would be the epitome of the Fatwallet way.
With the caveat that I know nothing about this property but it does look like a very nice property and a good deal, from what I can see it's not even close to being a 5-star property. Tripadvisor, for instance, rates it 3.5 stars, which is generally consistent with most people's understanding of a decent Marriott property. A $350/night rack rate on a 2-bedroom Marriott makes it a somewhat middle of the road one as well.

Anyway, my point isn't to try to crap on this property (and, as I mentioned above, it does seem fairly nice and it sounds like you're getting a good deal). My point is that personally, I am interested in learning some new tricks for getting killer deals on ultra-high end properties. Are there interesting ways that RCI or other timeshare programs can allow us to do that?


I don't doubt from your discussion your view of 5-star is a bit different from mine - and I'll trust that it is - but I guess the point to make is that most people consider it to be the best timeshare type of property (in terms of amenities and view) in the US. The top 25 in the world according to Redweek, 4-5 are Disney properties, 4-5 are Hawaii properties, and the top continental US one is this one in question. I guess my concern to your point would be that this IS the top end for most normally accessible timeshares - if there is a better one, I'm not sure what it is offhand, if that only registers on a 3.5 star level for most people, then that might be the best of the best in publicly accessible timeshares. Most have been what I would deem as 2-2.5 star. I will note my experience is continental US - and I haven't started traveling internationally quite yet..

geo123 said:   Horseymen said:   I'm still a huge proponent of Timeshares. For our first summer trip - we're spending two weeks at the Marriot Newport Coast Villas.

http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/laxnc-marriotts-newport-co...

This place is considered by Redweek.com to be the #1 non-Disney timeshare in the Continental US. This place is gorgeous. Granite everything. Double shower. Stonework. Two bedrooms. 1200 square feet. Tempurpedic beds. Balcony. Ocean view. This place is a creme de la creme. Free internet. Pools overlooking the ocean. Everything you could want. Rack rate is $350 a night.

Looking on E-bay, buying into the property costs you about $6,000 up front and $950 maintenance fees yearly to get a week from Week 1 to 22. I rented for $1000 each week. No taxes and no other fees. They covered their maintenance fees and technically profited, depending how they psychologically amortize their up-front fees.

I seriously don't understand why many on this website are not promoting timeshares more for those who love and value traveling. I guess not enough do. We're flying out on miles. Staying at a 5 star property for a 2.5 star price. To me, this would be the epitome of the Fatwallet way.
With the caveat that I know nothing about this property but it does look like a very nice property and a good deal, from what I can see it's not even close to being a 5-star property. Tripadvisor, for instance, rates it 3.5 stars, which is generally consistent with most people's understanding of a decent Marriott property. A $350/night rack rate on a 2-bedroom Marriott makes it a somewhat middle of the road one as well.

Anyway, my point isn't to try to crap on this property (and, as I mentioned above, it does seem fairly nice and it sounds like you're getting a good deal). My point is that personally, I am interested in learning some new tricks for getting killer deals on ultra-high end properties. Are there interesting ways that RCI or other timeshare programs can allow us to do that?
The best deals I have found in the secondary market for very high-end timeshares or partial ownership plans never made sense financially. On the other hand, being the friend of someone that participates in one of those programs isn't bad. I recently stayed in an Exclusive Resort property after a friend had to cancel his trip at the last minute. I will also be staying at a Ritz-Carlton property on a "friends and family" discount. If a great deal on one of these programs materializes, I would also be interested in buying something. Unless that happens, I will continue to buy dinners and cases of wine for my hosts. At some point in the near future, we expect to reciprocate once we make the uneconomic purchase of a beach house.

Horseymen said:   I don't doubt from your discussion your view of 5-star is a bit different from mine - and I'll trust that it is - but I guess the point to make is that most people consider it to be the best timeshare type of property (in terms of amenities and view) in the US. The top 25 in the world according to Redweek, 4-5 are Disney properties, 4-5 are Hawaii properties, and the top continental US one is this one in question.Redweek's top 25 is based on the votes of redweek.com's users. For obvious reasons, there are infinitely more holders of Marriott timeshares than of the Ritz-Carlton or the Four Seasons timeshares, so the voting results reflect exactly that. If there was such a thing as a Budget Inn timeshare and you had more Budget Inn timeshare holders on that website, your top 25 properties on that website would list Budget Inn instead of Marriott properties.

I am not pointing this out in an effort to put down Marriott properties in any way, as many are quite nice, but am just saying that these voting results don't tell you all that much. I am also not saying that we only get to stay in 5 star properties -- we do not and often cannot afford to do so. What I have found, however, is that there are ways that dramatically bring down the price of luxury stays, such that your final price ends up being about the same or even lower than what you'd pay with a middle of the road property and I'm always looking for a way to expand my knowledge of those ways.

I guess my concern to your point would be that this IS the top end for most normally accessible timeshares - if there is a better one, I'm not sure what it is offhand, if that only registers on a 3.5 star level for most people, then that might be the best of the best in publicly accessible timeshares. Most have been what I would deem as 2-2.5 star. I will note my experience is continental US - and I haven't started traveling internationally quite yet..Well, there are a lot of 5 star timeshares out there. The Ritz-Carlton and the Four Seasons run their own timeshare programs, as do many other 5-star developers. Hence, my question as to whether it is possible to creatively use those to save money (through the secondary market, of course). For instance, here's a link to a very intriguing thread regarding a person using his timeshare points to snag a 3 bedroom/2 bathroom Ritz-Carlton Vail property for 5 nights at the end of February, 2013 for what appears to be a crazy good deal. I'd certainly love to expand my knowledge of deals like that.

ryeny3 said:   I will also be staying at a Ritz-Carlton property on a "friends and family" discount.Those can be great, but they always require authorization forms, don't they?

geo123 said:   ryeny3 said:   I will also be staying at a Ritz-Carlton property on a "friends and family" discount.Those can be great, but they always require authorization forms, don't they?Normally, I would just answer yes. Since this is FWF, I wouldn't be shocked if someone posts that they got the discount without the form.

geo123 said:   If you disagree, please let me know where I can pick up a Ritz-Carlton Club timeshare to one of the prime ski destinations for free (the original price is $225,000-$275,000). I will gladly pay the annual fees.

Sorry I didn't see this sooner, I did not sub to the thread. Good to know you would take one of those properties for free, goes in line with what I said the value was.

Seems like you are pretty much pointing out with a little work you can break even/maybe profit a little with a few high end time shares. Please don't forget these high end time shares can also have crazy special assesments for repairs or lawsuits. At any time you could be asked to pony up $20k which will more than eat up your profit for awhile. The value is considered $0 because even taking it over for free it has the potential to be a much greater liability than it is an asset. Sure, with some work you MAY be able to profit it, but you never know what will come up that year to make it a money pit instead.

vipercon said:   Good to know you would take one of those properties for free, goes in line with what I said the value was.I am not sure I understand. If you are offering, I would also take a winning lottery ticket for free. My chances of scoring either one for free are about the same, however.

Seems like you are pretty much pointing out with a little work you can break even/maybe profit a little with a few high end time shares.No, I am pointing out that if they were free, which they never are, I would pick up every single one out there and either immediately flip them at an enormous profit (which isn't difficult, as they go for 6 figures on the secondary market) or live off the resulting income.

Let me show you the reason that they have tremendous value even on the secondary market (but certainly waaaaaaaaaay less than the developer charges for them). Speaking conservatively, in the winter (depending on the time, of course) a 2-bedroom unit like that at the Ritz-Carlton Bachelor Gulch can be pretty easily rented out for $1,500/night (over Christmas/New Year's, it's about $2,300-$2,400/night, but then the timeshare itself is also much more expensive). These timeshares typically include 2 weeks in the winter and one in the summer. I have no idea what the value of the summer week is, but renting it out for just one week in the winter covers your taxes and annual assessments. If you rent it out for both weeks in the winter and just forget about the summer week (again, I have no idea what those go for), then you've got about $10,000/year in profit. Hence, the reason that there is no possible way for you to pick it up for free.

If you ask who pays that much to stay there, I'll tell you to look at the math and you'll understand. The unit comes with about $600/day worth of lift tickets, so the net cost is about $900/day. In the winter a hotel room at that RC goes for about $550-$650/night plus you have to pay for everything else. If you've got enough people to need 2 hotel rooms, you are actually saving money by renting a 2 bedroom unit there like that and you are getting more for your money with it. Crazy how you can "save money" by paying $1,500/night, eh? There is no shortage of people doing it either.

Just to clarify, I have never owned a timeshare and am in no way suggesting that these or any other timeshares are a good financial investment. In fact, if you buy them from developers or don't get a great deal on the secondary market, they tend to be the exact opposite. My only point is that they aren't even in the vicinity of being such a poor deal that a Ritz-Carlton timeshare that was originally sold for a couple hundred thousand dollars can ever be picked up for free.

geo123 said: Well, there are a lot of 5 star timeshares out there. The Ritz-Carlton and the Four Seasons run their own timeshare programs, as do many other 5-star developers. Hence, my question as to whether it is possible to creatively use those to save money (through the secondary market, of course). For instance, here's a link to a very intriguing thread regarding a person using his timeshare points to snag a 3 bedroom/2 bathroom Ritz-Carlton Vail property for 5 nights at the end of February, 2013 for what appears to be a crazy good deal. I'd certainly love to expand my knowledge of deals like that.Because of the relationship with Marriott, Ritz-Carlton timeshares seem like the most promising of the high-end resorts.

Based on my very limited knowledge of how much points are worth, that seems like an amazing value. I have read about people getting these types of deals. but I haven't found any way to replicate their success. I've always assumed that these were either a last minute offering or the equivalent a some amazing FW deal along the lines of: a price mistake at store #1, a price match at store #2, an eBay coupon and a couple of rebates. I would be very grateful if someone can show me I am wrong about this.

Date: May 18th Event Time: 6pm - 10pm
Pick-up: 3:30pm & 5pm Pick-up Location: 42nd/6th Return Time: 10:00pm Transportation: Hamptons Jitney
RSVP: hamptons@airbnb.com (provide the name of your +1)

Mr Gatsby Estate
59 Hither Lane
East Hampton, NY

"Airbnb, a website devoted to renting out properties by the day, will be throwing a "swingin' soiree" at what they're calling "Mr. Gatsby's estate," actually an eight-bedroom, seven-bathroom house on Hither Lane in East Hampton that typically rents for $6,500 a night. The invitation encourages "glad rags" (i.e. '20s-inspired attire) and promises a night that's "sure to be the bee's knees."



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