eBay, you must be f'in kidding me!

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ganda said:    If this fee increase sticks, eBay have just taken an extra ~$15,000 out of my pocket for the next year. I sell fairly unusual items worldwide,

The increased fees are more beneficial to society, because the money will be taxed twice, first as corporate profits and second as a personal income of executives/shareholders. Ever heard of shared sacrifice?

ganda said:   I don't have a viable alternative, which is why eBay can get away with nonsense like this. If this fee increase sticks, eBay have just taken an extra ~$15,000 out of my pocket for the next year. I sell fairly unusual items worldwide, so CL is not an option. Actually, CL would never be a option because I don't want a bunch of CL weirdos coming to my family's home.

For most items, you can meet people from CL at a public place. Unless we are talking about furniture.

Exactly.
eBay is strategically pricing out a segment of its sellers that no longer fit into it's future model.
And it knows that certain niche sellers that have no viable alternative than eBay have no choice but to pay the increased fees.
So the sellers invariably have to raise their prices...which is great for eBay from a fee standpoint, but raises prices for the buyers.

Smart? Time will tell.

Fair? Well, that's capitalism... Put yourself in eBay's shoes and realize you have shareholders to answer to that want profit to only go up, up, up in perpetuity. Being a monopoly sure doesn't hurt...


ganda said:   I don't have a viable alternative, which is why eBay can get away with nonsense like this. If this fee increase sticks, eBay have just taken an extra ~$15,000 out of my pocket for the next year. I sell fairly unusual items worldwide, so CL is not an option. Actually, CL would never be a option because I don't want a bunch of CL weirdos coming to my family's home.

StGenius said:   The increased fees are more beneficial to society, because the money will be taxed twice, first as corporate profits and second as a personal income of executives/shareholders. Ever heard of shared sacrifice?I don't know if this was facetious or just stupid -- employee salaries are a business expense subtracted from revenue to figure out the taxable corporate profit.

I don't know what all this whining is about. Figure out if people have a better option or not, and buy or short eBay accordingly. The market likes their move, at least in the near term.

dcg9381 said:   olvrtw said:    The whole purpose of eBay is to scam the businesses that go there to sell stuff. Once you start making good money and rely on your eBay income, they will block your account and request many many documents, most important of which are invoices/details of your suppliers.

How is scamming businesses into providing proof of suppliers a valid business model.

Works for Amazon, who often then decide to compete in the same niche product that your store offered. For eBay, not so much.

May I interrupt this eBay bashing party with a few facts and figures?

Scott Wingo, a respected eCommerce leader has a very good blog post here:

eBay fees analysis

While eBay has announced that this change is fee neutral for them, there are certainly winners and losers. Here is Scotts' take on the winners and losers:

Biggest Winners

Sellers that list less than 12,250 items/month
Computer sellers
Low ASP sellers (everything under $75 has a fee discount)
High ASP sellers (if your ASP > $100, you are impacted with the only exception of P+A)
Under $75 ASP sporting goods sellers.
Under $100 ASP sellers for CSA, CE
Under $1000 ASP sellers for P+A

Biggest Losers

Sellers that list more than 12,250 items/month
Sporting good sellers over $75 (one of the hardest hit categories)
CSA and CE sellers over $100 ASP (will mostly be on the luxury apparel and CE/phone guys side)
P+A sellers over $1000
I didn't cover it above, but other categories that will feel pain: Business and industrial

dpid said:   ganda said:   I don't have a viable alternative, which is why eBay can get away with nonsense like this. If this fee increase sticks, eBay have just taken an extra ~$15,000 out of my pocket for the next year. I sell fairly unusual items worldwide, so CL is not an option. Actually, CL would never be a option because I don't want a bunch of CL weirdos coming to my family's home.

For most items, you can meet people from CL at a public place. Unless we are talking about furniture.


Also maybe it depends on where and what you sell but I have to say that while I have had more than a few "odd" emails on CL everybody I have met to buy or sell something with has been very nice, normal folks (at least that I could tell from the 10 minutes I spent with them. Maybe I am lucky or maybe the furniture and household stuff just doesn't attract the weirdos.

beltme said:   May I interrupt this eBay bashing party with a few facts and figures?

Scott Wingo, a respected eCommerce leader has a very good blog post here:

eBay fees analysis

While eBay has announced that this change is fee neutral for them, there are certainly winners and losers. Here is Scotts' take on the winners and losers:

Biggest Winners

Sellers that list less than 12,250 items/month
Computer sellers
Low ASP sellers (everything under $75 has a fee discount)
High ASP sellers (if your ASP > $100, you are impacted with the only exception of P+A)
Under $75 ASP sporting goods sellers.
Under $100 ASP sellers for CSA, CE
Under $1000 ASP sellers for P+A

Biggest Losers

Sellers that list more than 12,250 items/month
Sporting good sellers over $75 (one of the hardest hit categories)
CSA and CE sellers over $100 ASP (will mostly be on the luxury apparel and CE/phone guys side)
P+A sellers over $1000
I didn't cover it above, but other categories that will feel pain: Business and industrial


"Scott's Take" is way off when it comes to the "average joe." Just use eBay's own comparison chart dollar for dollar. Almost every possible sale I "tested" was almost double the old fees. If you're talking about the "professional" sellers that may very well be the case.

beltme said:   May I interrupt this eBay bashing party with a few facts and figures?

Scott Wingo, a respected eCommerce leader has a very good blog post here:

eBay fees analysis

While eBay has announced that this change is fee neutral for them, there are certainly winners and losers. Here is Scotts' take on the winners and losers:

Biggest Winners

Sellers that list less than 12,250 items/month
Computer sellers
Low ASP sellers (everything under $75 has a fee discount)
High ASP sellers (if your ASP > $100, you are impacted with the only exception of P+A)
Under $75 ASP sporting goods sellers.
Under $100 ASP sellers for CSA, CE
Under $1000 ASP sellers for P+A

Biggest Losers

Sellers that list more than 12,250 items/month
Sporting good sellers over $75 (one of the hardest hit categories)
CSA and CE sellers over $100 ASP (will mostly be on the luxury apparel and CE/phone guys side)
P+A sellers over $1000
I didn't cover it above, but other categories that will feel pain: Business and industrial
Scroll down: "This blog post was written by Scot Wingo, CEO, ChannelAdvisor. eBay is an investor in ChannelAdvisor."

Need I say more?

neophyte said:   ...

Need I say more?


Isnt that a car dealership ad.

May I correct your post?

beltme said:   May I interrupt this eBay bashing party with a few facts and figures?


Biggest Winners

eeebay. Nuff said.

Biggest Losers

Sellers that are stupid enough to continue to sell even with the 100% fee hike.
Buyers may also get hurt because sellers have to raise their price.

Why would eBay go through the trouble of changing fees if the result is revenue neutral?

Improve the steadiness/predictability of revenue? If they force folks into a yearly store subscription then that becomes a guaranteed stream of revenue vs having to estimate FVF fees from the auctions those same folks may list/sell...


whninja said:   Why would eBay go through the trouble of changing fees if the result is revenue neutral?
whninja said:   Why would eBay go through the trouble of changing fees if the result is revenue neutral?

For what it's worth, Amazon defended me against a $500+ chargeback today. Given, it was on a Wii-U purchased in November and I had signed delivery confirmation from FedEx (so basically, what else could I have as proof?), but at least I won a case.

CL just needs a google search plug in + google wallet. It could work.


ahallfatwallett said:   You know, Craigslist could put eBay out of business (though I believe eBay actually owns 25% of the company, as I recall). Craigslist is already ubiquitous. People already post stuff to sell there. How much of a leap would it be to allow sellers to sell stuff out of local area and ship it, just like eBay does? Craigslist could charge just a tiny fee, a fraction of what eBay charges. Would LOVE to see that happen! I got the idea that auctions are less and less of eBay's revenues anyway.

eBay sucks.

Whoa, when did Online Auctions (the moan and complain about eBay forum) merge with FWF?

Amazon Marketplace has exorbitant fees for essentially 10% of the functionality that eBay does. You can't list items that are in any way, shape, or form different than the listing. Your item is missing one screw? Sorry, that's a violation. Very little ability to take photos or customize your listing so you stand out. Scripted bots that adjust the price downward one cent to appear higher in the listings. Amazon Marketplace isn't perfect, either.

I sell on both. Every single price increase brings with it the moaning and groaning. First it was the need to offer Free Shipping. Then it was X fee increase or Y cap on shipping fees you could charge. Yet somehow the sky didn't fall.

dpid said:   ganda said:   I don't have a viable alternative, which is why eBay can get away with nonsense like this. If this fee increase sticks, eBay have just taken an extra ~$15,000 out of my pocket for the next year. I sell fairly unusual items worldwide, so CL is not an option. Actually, CL would never be a option because I don't want a bunch of CL weirdos coming to my family's home.

For most items, you can meet people from CL at a public place. Unless we are talking about furniture.


I can see CL makes sense if you're offloading your old camera/cellphone/whatever, but I sell ~100 items a week - I cannot meet 100 buyers in person.

"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."

I shipped something to Uruguay yesterday, was he supposed to drive up and meet me?

At least eBay's made it easier to let items sit for a month at virtually no cost (the main advantage of Amazon that I've seen). You can do high minimum bid auctions for free and if you pony up for the store you can do a bunch of free Buy It Nows. Personally, I prefered the old random free listing days, especially since you can't typically take advantage of them if you have a store.

ragedogg69 said:   I understand the flat fee structure to compete with Amazon marketplace, but isnt marketplace fees significantly lower if you are a small time seller?

eBay is much cheaper at the very low end than Amazon. That's because eBay has one percentage fee (two if you count Paypal separately) while Amazon has a percentage fee on top of a fixed fee and a weight fee. So take some random $20 item like an action figure. eBay hits you for ~12% (now ~13%) between eBay and Paypal. Amazon hits you with a 15% fee, plus a $1 fixed fee, plus 50 cents for the first pound and 5 or 10 more for each additional pound (they actually ding you higher fees for using Priority Mail). Ultimately, you end up paying almost 30% in fees. The gap narrows as you go up in price but you never overcome the disparity between a 15% commission and a 12% fee.

The only advantage Amazon has/had is being able to list stuff and let it sit indefinitely. But for a small seller, eBay's 50 free listings per month should suffice even if you have to relist the items every 7 days.

Speaking of competitors, what irks me is that webstore.com, unlike so many of these alternatives that crop up, seems to have a much more functional website but there's still practically zero traffic there.

Used both - rarely. My big complaint is shipping is fixed on Amazon and doesn't always cover final cost or reflect ship cost for item. Small sellers can't adjust that on Amazon. Ive cancelled sales on Amazon bc of this. Higher pricing can make you uncompetitive.

Yeah, sometimes the shipping works in your favor on Amazon (send a light video game or movie for $2, Amazon charges $5 or $6). But the fees are so high on Amazon, that gain is often washed out compared to a similar item on eBay.

I've been busy with work lately, but I'm totally screwed with this new pricing model. Where the hell am I going to sell all my low capacity magazines for hanguns and rifles? I make a killing selling them to people in CA and NY. This totally blows!

eBay just set aggresive goals for 2015, this must be how they intend to do it.

JaxFL said:   Used both - rarely. My big complaint is shipping is fixed on Amazon and doesn't always cover final cost or reflect ship cost for item. Small sellers can't adjust that on Amazon. Ive cancelled sales on Amazon bc of this. Higher pricing can make you uncompetitive.This doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter a single bit what the shipping charge or credit is -- if you want your listing at the top, your total price needs to be the lowest. Everyone else has to ship the same item, gets the same shipping credit, and pays the same shipping cost as you.

IMO, the biggest advantage with Amazon is that there's only one (or very few) actual product page for any particular product. For a seller, it makes it easy to list the product and set a competitive price. For a buyer it's very easy to find exactly what they want without having to search on multiple keywords in multiple categories to find the lowest price for the same thing.

mjoply said:   walletLess said:   
Do Amazon allow small once-in-a-while seller? I remember several years ago I received an email from Amazon that they will close my seller account since I am too small for them to bother..


Yes. I don't have that many listing on there and I can still sell. Just know that they may place funds on hold for up to thirty days if you sell a lot in a short period of time when you first start. You also only get paid every two weeks.

Actually, you can request the money right after you ship the item. It takes a few days to transfer to you bank account.

scripta said:   JaxFL said:   Used both - rarely. My big complaint is shipping is fixed on Amazon and doesn't always cover final cost or reflect ship cost for item. Small sellers can't adjust that on Amazon. Ive cancelled sales on Amazon bc of this. Higher pricing can make you uncompetitive.This doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter a single bit what the shipping charge or credit is -- if you want your listing at the top, your total price needs to be the lowest. Everyone else has to ship the same item, gets the same shipping credit, and pays the same shipping cost as you. Look closer, not everyone has to charge same shipping. Point is though... You don't know the cost until sale, being a small seller; and sometimes it exceeds amount Amazon requires. SO while you may be top total cost, it may not be worth while.

Of course you know the cost -- USPS rates aren't that crazy from region to region. Get a scale, weigh the item with the shipping package, and estimate your shipping cost to the farthest possible zip code. Problem solved.

eBay nailed me with their fine print.

I thought all this went into effect on 5/1. Was planning on opening a store a day or two before so the new fees don't affect me.

I sold a high-priced item today and was shocked when I saw the FVF. Of course the new Store fees go into affect 5/1, but the general non-store fees went into affect 4/16.

Nice and confusing, and no doubt deliberate on eBay's part. Wonder how much eBay cleared with this deception...

vinster said:   mjoply said:   walletLess said:   
Do Amazon allow small once-in-a-while seller? I remember several years ago I received an email from Amazon that they will close my seller account since I am too small for them to bother..


Yes. I don't have that many listing on there and I can still sell. Just know that they may place funds on hold for up to thirty days if you sell a lot in a short period of time when you first start. You also only get paid every two weeks.

Actually, you can request the money right after you ship the item. It takes a few days to transfer to you bank account.


Not true. That is for the older grandfathered accounts. Amazon has a new policy for recently created seller accounts. 21 day hold for first disbursement. 14 day thereafter which decreases to 7 day after you have good DSR's. They also have velocity limit depending upon history and listing category typically around $750. Once you hit that limit they freeze disbursements for 30 days while they review your account.

AZ has a lot negatives but, is better than eBay. For a new seller you can sell a high-dollar item very quickly without feedback. You also do not have as many demanding people customers.

My eBay fees are $50,000+. eBay motors barely went up on this revision but doubled 3 years ago. I guess they used ebaymotors as a test market and decided to generalize it to the rest if the site.

eBay generates revenue and customer leads (many are poor). But the leads are often cheap.

$50k is a lot to spend supporting another's business. Going to take much if those advertising dollars and put ut into direct marketing and keep that 10% back in my pocket.

From someone who has been both a seller and a buyer, I believe that eBay's fees are so high for the regular guy to compete on eBay.
But from a buyer's perspective, eBay is a great tool to find the absolute highest price I should expect to pay for something.
When I need to buy something, and I don't really know what it should cost, I search eBay, using the "lowest price/shipping" option.
I find the lowest price, then search elsewhere in search of lower prices.
There are always lower prices, except in the case of some cheap Chinese-made stuff.

It's smart under the circumstances that the seller does not know.

The average "first-time" seller on eBay doesn't even realize that a percentage of their auction price will be charged as a fee until after the fact. Such was the case for me when I was about 12.... and the fee was also about 3% lol.

Anyhow, eBay was the place that people could sell their leftover videogames. Their clothes they never wore. The gifts they couldn't say no to. The old movies they never watch anymore. I find it's pretty easy to say that this will be the death of them. Aside from Craigslist, I believe there is another one that is an international-type company that is already very popular - though at the moment I can't remember what it was. I just used them a month ago to get rid of some old videocards that I no longer use, as well as a couple other "Collectible" items.

I can easily sit here and say: I will Not be using them after this. It's not worth it. 90% of transactions I would get more money donating it to charity as a tax write-off. I wish that weren't true, but it really is.

Regardless, absolutely stupid on their part. Short term? I guess they will get some more in the short term. Long Term (6 months+) will be the death of them.

awstick said:   In my experience with CL people don't drive out to walk away empty handed. I just hold firm on my price if they try to start haggling when they get there. I've only had 1 guy walk away in 20 sales in the past few months and that was some old guy who was destined to waste my time regardless since he only brought like $600 when the item was $1000.

I also "enjoy" the CL'ers that want to haggle the price down b/c they'll pay with cash. I mean, REALLY???, it wasn't like I'm accepting a check from you.

The next shoe to drop for fleecebay is charging tax on all sales of internet purchases.

justignoredem said:   90% of transactions I would get more money donating it to charity as a tax write-off. I wish that weren't true, but it really is.

Really? Even if you had the highest marginal rate in the country (NYC, a bit over 50%), then donating a $100 item would only generate $50 in tax savings (less, since charitable deductions are reduced at high income levels). Fees on selling the $100 item on eBay would be nowhere near $50.

The only way you could get more donating it to charity is if you inappropriately inflated the value of the item for donation purposes. Remember, you can only deduct the amount for which you could actually sell the item.

cestmoi123 said:   justignoredem said:   90% of transactions I would get more money donating it to charity as a tax write-off. I wish that weren't true, but it really is.

Really? Even if you had the highest marginal rate in the country (NYC, a bit over 50%), then donating a $100 item would only generate $50 in tax savings (less, since charitable deductions are reduced at high income levels). Fees on selling the $100 item on eBay would be nowhere near $50.

The only way you could get more donating it to charity is if you inappropriately inflated the value of the item for donation purposes. Remember, you can only deduct the amount for which you could actually sell the item.


And below cost. So getting something FAR and donating it doesn't give you a writeoff.

cestmoi123 said:   justignoredem said:   90% of transactions I would get more money donating it to charity as a tax write-off. I wish that weren't true, but it really is.

Really? Even if you had the highest marginal rate in the country (NYC, a bit over 50%), then donating a $100 item would only generate $50 in tax savings (less, since charitable deductions are reduced at high income levels). Fees on selling the $100 item on eBay would be nowhere near $50.

The only way you could get more donating it to charity is if you inappropriately inflated the value of the item for donation purposes. Remember, you can only deduct the amount for which you could actually sell the item.



I agree but perhaps he is also including the cost of his time it takes to post, sell and ship on eBay in the overall cost of selling on eBay. At this point my cut off for what is worth selling on eBay or CL (to some extent) is somewhere on the order of $25-35. At or below that value it doesn't make sense for me to spend generally what amounts to 45 mins to an hour to post the item, answer questions, package item and drive to Post Office/FedEx. If you value your time at $0 then you are never going to "make more" donating as you point out.

walletfart said:   cestmoi123 said:   justignoredem said:   90% of transactions I would get more money donating it to charity as a tax write-off. I wish that weren't true, but it really is.

Really? Even if you had the highest marginal rate in the country (NYC, a bit over 50%), then donating a $100 item would only generate $50 in tax savings (less, since charitable deductions are reduced at high income levels). Fees on selling the $100 item on eBay would be nowhere near $50.

The only way you could get more donating it to charity is if you inappropriately inflated the value of the item for donation purposes. Remember, you can only deduct the amount for which you could actually sell the item.


And below cost. So getting something FAR and donating it doesn't give you a writeoff.


My understanding of how donations work is that for the 1st year you can/have to deduct what you paid for the item, but after that, you can/have to deduct the FMV of the item? Similar to the FAR stuff, I was researching this in the realm of free stuff after couponing, such that if you get some toothbrushes (or software) for free, during the first year, you get no deduction for donating them, but if you wait a year and a day, then you can deduct the FMV of the toothbrushes or software.

This is just my read of how it works, so I'm wondering if I am confused? Under that, your FAR software may have some value as a deduction after a year (which seems odd), but I think that's the way the code is written (and I know a lot of couponers that don't do the deductions that way, i.e., they deduct the full value of the stuff they get for free when they donate it right away) -- if anyone else knows more definitively that would be great.


EDIT: and for donations of other stuff, if you imagine something worth ~50 that weighs more than 13 ounces and doesn't fit into a small (or regional) priority mail package, you are talking about 10 bucks to ship, 6.50 in fees, and at least 50 cents in packaging stuff (plus time spent listing and driving to the PO, which if you want to deduct .565 dollars per mile means you better have a PO right next door) even with just the actual mail cost and fees of 17 bucks, you are looking at "only" getting 37 bucks. Then you need to calculate your loss for whatever percent of ebayers are scammy mcscammersons and getting 20-25 bucks in the form of tax savings definitely starts to look like more money than the 50 bucks you can sell it for.



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