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You should see some of the job ads I see. They're completely unreasonable. Applied engineers (bachelor/master degree plus certifications), proficient in programing/IT, with enough people skills to train others, for a 6-month gig at a "negotiable" salary on the other side of the country. Why not go all the way and demand applicants have 15 years experience with Windows 8 and turn back time to save Lois Lane while you're at it? Then they disqualify candidates until they end up hiring somebody's friend who can barely tie their own shoes in the morning. This economy's out on a ledge with a stomach full of sleeping pills and a loaded revolver in its mouth...

CommandCenter2 said:   You should see some of the job ads I see. They're completely unreasonable. Applied engineers (bachelor/master degree plus certifications), proficient in programing/IT, with enough people skills to train others, for a 6-month gig at a "negotiable" salary on the other side of the country. Why not go all the way and demand applicants have 15 years experience with Windows 8 and turn back time to save Lois Lane while you're at it? Then they disqualify candidates until they end up hiring somebody's friend who can barely tie their own shoes in the morning. This economy's out on a ledge with a stomach full of sleeping pills and a loaded revolver in its mouth...


Did you accidentally reply to the wrong thread?

Seems like we are dispensing anecdotes, so I will join in. A customer of mine that owns a successful remodeling company has a worker who claims he is will retire as soon as he has $35,000 in the bank. After that, he calculated there are enough government programs where he can live comfortably for the rest of his life. No calculations given, but I must confess, I am intrigued.

Social security plus disability plus the guy has assets other than bank accounts?

ragedogg69 said:   Seems like we are dispensing anecdotes, so I will join in. A customer of mine that owns a successful remodeling company has a worker who claims he is will retire as soon as he has $35,000 in the bank. After that, he calculated there are enough government programs where he can live comfortably for the rest of his life. No calculations given, but I must confess, I am intrigued.

The issue there is that $35k is very likely too much assets to qualify for aid. Food stamps, for instance.

People are older, fatter, and use more drugs. They're also not educated for the 21st century economy. Since people have to eat the obvious outcome is disability since that is the rational thing to do for a person with no other options.

The answer is to just limit the percentage of working age adults who can be on disability at any one time. Say it should be limited to 5%, for example, adjusted for median age or whatever you want. If the rolls are full, the rolls are full. You are rank ordered according to your disability. Back pain, medium low. Severe schizophrenia, high. Aches and pains, low.

Most of my disabled patients were very marginal employees to begin with. They really aren't employable in the modern age.

Hopefully this NPR story will result in the same type of action that shut down the Mint churn, but I highly doubt it.

tjguitar85 said:   ragedogg69 said:   Seems like we are dispensing anecdotes, so I will join in. A customer of mine that owns a successful remodeling company has a worker who claims he is will retire as soon as he has $35,000 in the bank. After that, he calculated there are enough government programs where he can live comfortably for the rest of his life. No calculations given, but I must confess, I am intrigued.

The issue there is that $35k is very likely too much assets to qualify for aid. Food stamps, for instance.

Maybe the guy plans on buying gold and silver and then establishing a pattern of Vegas gambling.

tjguitar85 said:   ragedogg69 said:   Seems like we are dispensing anecdotes, so I will join in. A customer of mine that owns a successful remodeling company has a worker who claims he is will retire as soon as he has $35,000 in the bank. After that, he calculated there are enough government programs where he can live comfortably for the rest of his life. No calculations given, but I must confess, I am intrigued.

The issue there is that $35k is very likely too much assets to qualify for aid. Food stamps, for instance.


the guy does manual labor for a living; I doubt he has a finance degree and is probably wrong. Are their any programs that measure income and not assets FWF should know about?

mikefxu said:   My wife qualifies (Cerebral Palsy) for disability but she chooses to work (Ultrasound Technician). We are being over run by those that choose not to provide societal value and don't deserve to participate in society with the rest of us. I envision a government employment system for those that receive benefits. The first goal would be re-education back into the private sector. Following that if you can't work physically (either privately or for the government) the government could subcontract someone that has physical limitation out to a call center, such as Dell. The government would provide the very minimum in life quality, no food stamps, but a baskets of goods that you will be show how to turn into a delicious healthy meals. It is too lucrative to live on the government dole. I understand that this type of system is not ideal but I think it would be better than our current setup. The government is getting nothing back from these government lifers. I do understand some are truly not able to provide societal value and I am not speaking of those individuals. I have three personal experiences with those that choose to live on the government dole through their own actions or in-actions.

Giulianni did that with NYC's HUGE welfare population. Made them clean subways and scrape grafitti off the cars and walls. Basically, he took their welfare benefit and determined how many hours of minimum wage work it equated, and made them work for it.

Sharpton called it slavery, to which Giulianni answered that they were free to get other jobs. No one was holding them down and making them draw welfare.

Under Giulianni, NYC shed more than half of its welfare population, either through people going to work, or moving to more welfare friendly cities.

jerosen said:   CommandCenter2 said:   You should see some of the job ads I see. They're completely unreasonable. Applied engineers (bachelor/master degree plus certifications), proficient in programing/IT, with enough people skills to train others, for a 6-month gig at a "negotiable" salary on the other side of the country. Why not go all the way and demand applicants have 15 years experience with Windows 8 and turn back time to save Lois Lane while you're at it? Then they disqualify candidates until they end up hiring somebody's friend who can barely tie their own shoes in the morning. This economy's out on a ledge with a stomach full of sleeping pills and a loaded revolver in its mouth...


Did you accidentally reply to the wrong thread?


I think the point is relevant to how hard it is for such people to get a job.

LorenPechtel said:   
I think the point is relevant to how hard it is for such people to get a job.


Lets be field specific.. that guy was talking about IT/Tech. I sure don't know of many companies that "require" a Masters... It may be really hard to find a job in other fields, but in the right areas of the US, the tech job field is quite robust...

umcsom said:   studies have shown when people blow my money I am unhappier than if they blow money they worked for.

Can you please provide references for these studies?

I don't know if this had been mentioned already, but one of the biggest problems with this situation mentioned in the article is the disability lawyers and the way the system is setup such that most disability claims are initially denied but upon appeal are granted because the Fed doesn't defend it's denial claim at appeal.

JOFFE-WALT: The Social Security Administration denies a lot of people, at least the first time around. Only about a third of those who apply for disability are awarded benefits. The rest are denied. So more and more people see these ads and appeal the decisions. Not everybody appeals - a little more than half. And those who do have much better chances, almost two-thirds of the time. Usually with the help of representation, they win.

...

JOFFE-WALT: There exists today what I'm going to call a disability industrial complex, and Charles Binder had a big hand in creating it. When he started in 1979, Binder and Binder represented less than 50 clients. Last year, 30,000 - 30,000 - people who were denied disability appealed, with the help of Charles Binder - in one year. The firm made $68.7 million in fees.

So you've got 30,000 people denied disability, who are appealing to a judge; taking their case to the courts. And on the one side, the judge has a passionate, persuasive lawyer making the case that his client is physically or emotionally incapable of working. And on the other side, who's on the other side? Nobody. Nobody - really. David Autor, an economist at MIT, told me with disability cases, there's no person in the room making the government's case.

jerosen said:   Red55 said:   scottwood2 said:   I just seen a movie yesterday called "The Waiting Room". It is about people with no medical insurance. It tells all kinds of stories. I thought it was very good and a lot of the stories are of people that have worked very hard and have tried to do the right things all along. Yes there are some that try to abuse the system but there are many who have not. One story of someone who was a carpet installer stated that he installed carpet for over 20 years. He raised a family and lived an OK life. He stated that the amount paid to him per yard to install carpet never when up over the 20 year span. He was told one day that because there were illegal immigrants willing to install carpet for much less then he was being paid that they had to lower his pay if he wanted to continue to work. He had no choice and took the cut. He lost his home and medical but was still working. He had major back problems and it would take months or longer before he could even see anyone about surgery. All he could do was try to get pain pills so he could continue to work.

This is a great film for everyone to see.


As a 16yr kid I worked with carpet installers (40+yrs ago) They made a very good living. Got out of the business cause as a dumb kid I could see how they were destroying their bodies with very hard work. I blame the current working conditions on our "New Global Economy" that has been pushed by "our" politicians for the last 20 yrs. And I see it across the board, not just with carpet installers, but roofers and most other labor intensive trades. And it is migrating up the social scale to college/professional level jobs.



I don't think that globalization and the past few Presidents really did anything to make carpet installing and roofing harder jobs.


Education takes the place of physical labor in our society. Make your mind sore to earn money, not your other muscles.

In many ways I could see the point of the doctor asking for education level when filling out the disability paperwork. He lived among these people in a poor county in a poor state. These people were uneducated. They couldn't just "go get a job" as some people think they can. They can't do it because there literally are no jobs anywhere around them.

The government needs to get tough like Giuliani and "create" jobs for people who can't do physical work. Maybe they can go hang out with the elderly at a nursing home or something. Force them out of the house to do ANYTHING and you will see people drop off the SSI roles.

Government should have disability work centers.

dcg9381 said:   LorenPechtel said:   
I think the point is relevant to how hard it is for such people to get a job.


Lets be field specific.. that guy was talking about IT/Tech. I sure don't know of many companies that "require" a Masters... It may be really hard to find a job in other fields, but in the right areas of the US, the tech job field is quite robust...


Yes and no. Job descriptions anymore are all over the place. It just so happens that my field is IT, so that's what really jumps out at me as obviously stupid. They've got HR people, who already know nothing about these jobs, disqualifying candidates left and right for trivial reasons (like experience with X7 and X9 but not X8 - God help you applying somewhere that uses Vista as XP and 7 experience won't cut it). If you make it through that crap, the compensation is insulting. Having weeded out everybody else, nepotism or, worse, Accenture get a green light to totally f%$# up everything for everybody outside of IT.

Now you're trying to hire for some kind of marginal job like processing insurance claims or something. A marginal worker could've performed that task with good tools. Too bad you have bad tools that practically disqualify marginal workers as a class. Of course, this marginal job with marginal compensation doesn't really attract anybody but the marginal workers you've just disqualified. At this point, company "leadership" usually doubles down because saving face is top priority. One of the ways that manifests is crying to the media about people on public assistance, as if every single one of them deliberately chose to do so rather than pluck a leisurely job from a tree in their back yard. Should somebody making $9/hour to process forms be expected to debug the system they're using?

You ever wonder why the fools in the government can't do simple stuff for you sometimes? Governments love to buy SAP "solutions" from Accenture with billions of your tax dollars. We may as well pay people on SSDI to flush the money down a toilet instead.

There are some educational requirements for big companies and perhaps public-sector jobs. I've worked for big companies and could understand how the requirements get a little more off in the weeds. Internal HR and companies that find people for tech roles, both need to be "tuned" for the position. IF they're disqualifying people incorrectly, eventually we figure it as we (hiring managers) eventually ask to see the resumes of people who were disqualified if we're not getting the candidates we need. If we are getting qualified candidates, we don't ask.

Of course, my statement isn't universal and I'm sure companies do get it wrong, but trust me - in a field where there is high demand, companies are getting creative about job descriptions, bending job requirements, and basically leaving no stone unturned to find good candidates. Smaller companies have a lot more flexibility. And in the right geography, there are a lot of small companies hiring in tech.

Have a particular experience that you want to tell us about? I'm seeing salaries in the 6-figure range for kids that are a couple of years out of school and some of them with associates degrees. Given, these are the "A" players, not the median players that you're going to see on salary.com averages, but if you're looking for work in the right tech niche, you can be quite marginal and still very employable as I see those too.

I do completely agree that if you're smart and adapted to similar tools, but don't have a way to prove it on paper with a technical degree or the experience in the particular tool that they want you to have, it's going to be a tough row to hoe. In those case, my advice would be to double down - take the position that gets your foot in the door, even at a salary below expectations... Then get recognized. There are a bunch of people in this boat and it's highly competitive.

Not "educated"? Not qualified 1:1 on paper? Yea, you'll have to make your way and it'll suck for a while.


Disability peeves me. I know two people on disability. One is using for early retirement and could work. The other (young) is simply taking flat advantage of the system while she jumps from guy to guy, which is another way to supplement her income. Once disabled, disabled forever... And there is no incentive to work - there is incentive not to ever work again. I'm sure there are those not abusing the system, but the two that come to my mind definitely could still work and I consider one of them an outright fraud. To me, the metrics tell it all - off welfare and on to disability. Just another great example of setting up a broken system that we can't un-break.

When taking into consideration all of the different drags on society, you quickly realize that things are much worse than you initially think.

First, you have folks who simply cannot work: disabled, young children.

Second, you have folks that are not in a good position to work or have "earned" some non-working years: students and the retired.

Third, you have the people just aren't working: unemployed.

Fourth, you have the people that are employed, despite the lack of value that they provide: unproductive employed.

At that point, it must be just about 10% of people that are carrying everyone else... there are plenty of people that are employed and are just incompetent or lazy... they either skate by at work or move from job to job and are unemployed on occasion. When I go to work, I see them all over. I have lost my job because I earned too much before (because they just picked "non-essential" high paid folks to ax)... except I provide value constantly and track the hard and soft costs that I save and the productivity and capability that I add... these folks should have been the first to go. Anyhow, just food for thought.

CommandCenter2 said:   dcg9381 said:   LorenPechtel said:   
I think the point is relevant to how hard it is for such people to get a job.


Lets be field specific.. that guy was talking about IT/Tech. I sure don't know of many companies that "require" a Masters... It may be really hard to find a job in other fields, but in the right areas of the US, the tech job field is quite robust...


Yes and no. Job descriptions anymore are all over the place. It just so happens that my field is IT, so that's what really jumps out at me as obviously stupid. They've got HR people, who already know nothing about these jobs, disqualifying candidates left and right for trivial reasons (like experience with X7 and X9 but not X8 - God help you applying somewhere that uses Vista as XP and 7 experience won't cut it). If you make it through that crap, the compensation is insulting. Having weeded out everybody else, nepotism or, worse, Accenture get a green light to totally f%$# up everything for everybody outside of IT.

Now you're trying to hire for some kind of marginal job like processing insurance claims or something. A marginal worker could've performed that task with good tools. Too bad you have bad tools that practically disqualify marginal workers as a class. Of course, this marginal job with marginal compensation doesn't really attract anybody but the marginal workers you've just disqualified. At this point, company "leadership" usually doubles down because saving face is top priority. One of the ways that manifests is crying to the media about people on public assistance, as if every single one of them deliberately chose to do so rather than pluck a leisurely job from a tree in their back yard. Should somebody making $9/hour to process forms be expected to debug the system they're using?

You ever wonder why the fools in the government can't do simple stuff for you sometimes? Governments love to buy SAP "solutions" from Accenture with billions of your tax dollars. We may as well pay people on SSDI to flush the money down a toilet instead.


Accenture certainly isn't the only company that does stuff like this. HP, Dell, MAXIMUS, Public Consulting Group, Delloite, the list goes on and on of these government contractors who take the government for a ride. They get in over their heads offering "solutions" and then bilk the government for years with delay after delay and both sides point the finger at each other. Meanwhile, the contractor is laughing all the way to the bank and a politician is able to say he "saved" the government money.

A few years ago someone said to me, "I see why people claim disability because they get health care too." I said something to the effect that they are losers. Fast forward to this year and that very person worked the system with a "back injury". He is getting a nice check due to paying into the system. He is 44 and is officially retired and I am expected to work another 30 years to pay for it.

A co-worker knew he was about to get fired and unfortunately hurt his back while traveling(yeah right). His whole family is on disability so he had access to the doctors and lawyers that could get it done. The guy was under 40, 100% faking it, and everyone knew it. My company hired a private investigator and of course the guy was sporting a back brace and the whole nine yards. He is now an early retiree via fake disability.

A manual labor temp. worker told me that his former government working 35 year old girlfriend was considered disabled due to back pain and didn't have to work anymore. She was bored and wanted to go back to work but he he convinced her to keep taking the sure thing. He said all of the temps. knew which lawyers and doctors could get it done. He said he was going that route eventually.

These are just a few of my experiences with the disability scam. It is painful how easy the scam is and nobody cares. It is out of control but don't you dare take the money away from the "disabled".

aadam101 said:   CommandCenter2 said:   dcg9381 said:   LorenPechtel said:   
I think the point is relevant to how hard it is for such people to get a job.


Lets be field specific.. that guy was talking about IT/Tech. I sure don't know of many companies that "require" a Masters... It may be really hard to find a job in other fields, but in the right areas of the US, the tech job field is quite robust...


Yes and no. Job descriptions anymore are all over the place. It just so happens that my field is IT, so that's what really jumps out at me as obviously stupid. They've got HR people, who already know nothing about these jobs, disqualifying candidates left and right for trivial reasons (like experience with X7 and X9 but not X8 - God help you applying somewhere that uses Vista as XP and 7 experience won't cut it). If you make it through that crap, the compensation is insulting. Having weeded out everybody else, nepotism or, worse, Accenture get a green light to totally f%$# up everything for everybody outside of IT.

Now you're trying to hire for some kind of marginal job like processing insurance claims or something. A marginal worker could've performed that task with good tools. Too bad you have bad tools that practically disqualify marginal workers as a class. Of course, this marginal job with marginal compensation doesn't really attract anybody but the marginal workers you've just disqualified. At this point, company "leadership" usually doubles down because saving face is top priority. One of the ways that manifests is crying to the media about people on public assistance, as if every single one of them deliberately chose to do so rather than pluck a leisurely job from a tree in their back yard. Should somebody making $9/hour to process forms be expected to debug the system they're using?

You ever wonder why the fools in the government can't do simple stuff for you sometimes? Governments love to buy SAP "solutions" from Accenture with billions of your tax dollars. We may as well pay people on SSDI to flush the money down a toilet instead.


Accenture certainly isn't the only company that does stuff like this. HP, Dell, MAXIMUS, Public Consulting Group, Delloite, the list goes on and on of these government contractors who take the government for a ride. They get in over their heads offering "solutions" and then bilk the government for years with delay after delay and both sides point the finger at each other. Meanwhile, the contractor is laughing all the way to the bank and a politician is able to say he "saved" the government money.


The problem is not them taking the government for a ride... the government doesn't properly define its requirements when it places out a contract for bidding. The contractors are multitudes more productive than the alternative, too.

SAP has an extremely high failure rate for deployments. Last time I looked at the figures, I think it was somewhere around 70% of all deployments could not be counted as "successes."

Dus10 said:   

SAP has an extremely high failure rate for deployments. Last time I looked at the figures, I think it was somewhere around 70% of all deployments could not be counted as "successes."


Have a source? What keeps SAP's customers coming in?

tjguitar85 said:   ragedogg69 said:   Seems like we are dispensing anecdotes, so I will join in. A customer of mine that owns a successful remodeling company has a worker who claims he is will retire as soon as he has $35,000 in the bank. After that, he calculated there are enough government programs where he can live comfortably for the rest of his life. No calculations given, but I must confess, I am intrigued.

The issue there is that $35k is very likely too much assets to qualify for aid. Food stamps, for instance.



Not all states count assetts to get benefits.

I work at $$A (unfortunately) and these are some of the frequent conditions on benefit applications: bi-polar/manic depression, depression, mental problems, and adhd and learning disabilities for children (SSI benefits).

And somebody linked an article earlier that mentioned the 'disability industrial complex'. Let's not forget the drug companies/insurance here. A person can get Medicare after two years on disability. If their income/resources are low enough, they qualify for 'extra help' with RX drug costs which generally pays for some/all of their monthly premium and lowers their co-pays at the pharmacy (depending on which level of assistance they get). Of course, the drug/insurance love this government subsidy, as it reduces the cost of drugs that cost several hundred dollars down to less than $6 for the 'disabled' person.

We do get a fair amount of back pain applications and for those of you who have never had a back injury or something similar I can tell you from personal experience it's no picnic. Doctors have no answers because medical school trains them to give out cortisone/drugs/physical therapy. It's unfortunate for many of these people that they will never get the help they deserve. Thanks to what the insurance companies deem 'experimental' treatment (so they don't have to pay for it), I am doing much better and expect to by at or near 100% within the next few months. Unfortunately, most people just accept the status quo and don't seek out alternative/natural doctors like I did. musculoskeletal problems are very treatable, it's just much more profitable to treat people than to fix them.

People I work with (mostly women) frequently bitch that they have to work while these lazy people sit home and do nothing all day and live off welfare. While I agree with that to a large extent, my medical experience has taught me how corrupt the medical industry is and people with real problems never get the help they need because it's in the elite's best interest ($$$$) to create returning customers. Take autism for example, only 1 in 10,000 people had it 50 years ago, now it's 1 in 110. How does such an epidemic happen? ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$) Sorry to get off topic here.

You would think disability would be for somebody who was permanently injured in a car accident or some other freak accident, or dying of a terminal illness. It's far from it.

biomedeng said:   .... So now what we have is a system which spends all its efforts on denying all initial claims (I know of many people with legitimate claims, such as blindness, that get denied), because this is the only checkpoint for fraud...Don't forget about the cottage industry that has many former disability (ambulance-chasing) attorneys specializing ("if we accept your case and can't get your claim approved, you don't have to pay us").

duckyhood said:   The author of the puff piece led with an anecdote about an anomaly in a tiny county of 15,000 people, where about 2,200 working-age people are on disability.
Nationwide, the disability rate is <5%. That tells us that there is at least a minimum level of enforcement to check for fraud.
Wow, that is amazing.

I'm curious how you arrived @this conclusion (in bolded text), especially the logic behind ignoring any/every other contributing factor.

bobley said:   Dus10 said:   

SAP has an extremely high failure rate for deployments. Last time I looked at the figures, I think it was somewhere around 70% of all deployments could not be counted as "successes."


Have a source? What keeps SAP's customers coming in?


Graft and stupidity in many cases. Our last governor was in bed with Deloitte and Unisys. Useless, all of them.

Dus10 said:   The problem is not them taking the government for a ride... the government doesn't properly define its requirements when it places out a contract for bidding. The contractors are multitudes more productive than the alternative, too.

Yeah, people buy that until they work with contractors whose poor English skills make even the simplest communication needlessly difficult and who ignore very specific documentation for months only to scramble to slap something together (or not) in the last couple of days that doesn't meet most of the requirements. That's when the lie of "private" contractor efficiency is laid bare for all to see.

RS4Rings said:   CptSavAHo said:   All this talk and still no concrete plan to fake disability for fun and profit. Is this FWF or what!?
I have been thinking of starting a thread "Being Nuts For fun and Profit". Will do it once I start the process to document my trip through SSDI


Please do this.... The Title is funny as hell!

BlackKnight85 said:   I work at $$A (unfortunately) and these are some of the frequent conditions on benefit applications: bi-polar/manic depression, depression, mental problems, and adhd and learning disabilities for children (SSI benefits).

And somebody linked an article earlier that mentioned the 'disability industrial complex'. Let's not forget the drug companies/insurance here. A person can get Medicare after two years on disability. If their income/resources are low enough, they qualify for 'extra help' with RX drug costs which generally pays for some/all of their monthly premium and lowers their co-pays at the pharmacy (depending on which level of assistance they get). Of course, the drug/insurance love this government subsidy, as it reduces the cost of drugs that cost several hundred dollars down to less than $6 for the 'disabled' person.

We do get a fair amount of back pain applications and for those of you who have never had a back injury or something similar I can tell you from personal experience it's no picnic. Doctors have no answers because medical school trains them to give out cortisone/drugs/physical therapy. It's unfortunate for many of these people that they will never get the help they deserve. Thanks to what the insurance companies deem 'experimental' treatment (so they don't have to pay for it), I am doing much better and expect to by at or near 100% within the next few months. Unfortunately, most people just accept the status quo and don't seek out alternative/natural doctors like I did. musculoskeletal problems are very treatable, it's just much more profitable to treat people than to fix them.

People I work with (mostly women) frequently bitch that they have to work while these lazy people sit home and do nothing all day and live off welfare. While I agree with that to a large extent, my medical experience has taught me how corrupt the medical industry is and people with real problems never get the help they need because it's in the elite's best interest ($$$$) to create returning customers. Take autism for example, only 1 in 10,000 people had it 50 years ago, now it's 1 in 110. How does such an epidemic happen? ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$) Sorry to get off topic here.

You would think disability would be for somebody who was permanently injured in a car accident or some other freak accident, or dying of a terminal illness. It's far from it.


Makes me wonder about colleges setting ridiculous tuition/fees rates. When their alumni go and collect disability and discharge their student loans, is that considered a default that may impact their ability to accept federal aid?

blueiedgod said:   mikefxu said:   My wife qualifies (Cerebral Palsy) for disability but she chooses to work (Ultrasound Technician). We are being over run by those that choose not to provide societal value and don't deserve to participate in society with the rest of us. I envision a government employment system for those that receive benefits. The first goal would be re-education back into the private sector. Following that if you can't work physically (either privately or for the government) the government could subcontract someone that has physical limitation out to a call center, such as Dell. The government would provide the very minimum in life quality, no food stamps, but a baskets of goods that you will be show how to turn into a delicious healthy meals. It is too lucrative to live on the government dole. I understand that this type of system is not ideal but I think it would be better than our current setup. The government is getting nothing back from these government lifers. I do understand some are truly not able to provide societal value and I am not speaking of those individuals. I have three personal experiences with those that choose to live on the government dole through their own actions or in-actions.

Giulianni did that with NYC's HUGE welfare population. Made them clean subways and scrape grafitti off the cars and walls. Basically, he took their welfare benefit and determined how many hours of minimum wage work it equated, and made them work for it.

Sharpton called it slavery, to which Giulianni answered that they were free to get other jobs. No one was holding them down and making them draw welfare.

Under Giulianni, NYC shed more than half of its welfare population, either through people going to work, or moving to more welfare friendly cities.

Thanks for that. Sometimes my crazy idea work in my head but not in actuality. This is a perfect example/test case.

stat9 said:   A few years ago someone said to me, "I see why people claim disability because they get health care too." I said something to the effect that they are losers. Fast forward to this year and that very person worked the system with a "back injury". He is getting a nice check due to paying into the system. He is 44 and is officially retired and I am expected to work another 30 years to pay for it.

A co-worker knew he was about to get fired and unfortunately hurt his back while traveling(yeah right). His whole family is on disability so he had access to the doctors and lawyers that could get it done. The guy was under 40, 100% faking it, and everyone knew it. My company hired a private investigator and of course the guy was sporting a back brace and the whole nine yards. He is now an early retiree via fake disability.

A manual labor temp. worker told me that his former government working 35 year old girlfriend was considered disabled due to back pain and didn't have to work anymore. She was bored and wanted to go back to work but he he convinced her to keep taking the sure thing. He said all of the temps. knew which lawyers and doctors could get it done. He said he was going that route eventually.

These are just a few of my experiences with the disability scam. It is painful how easy the scam is and nobody cares. It is out of control but don't you dare take the money away from the "disabled".


It's not out of control. The gov't just denies more legit disability claims from those who lack enough savvy to manipulate the system (usually people with bad genes....aka people with actual disabilities). This is likely done intentionally to kill off the truly disabled, as their horrendous medical needs are too burdensome for society.

Perversely, we're much better off (financially) entertaining the pretend disabled and rejecting the sincerely disabled.



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