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greling said:   Can someone please explain to me the real difference between BitCoin and fiat money?

One difference I know of. Fiat money is recognize by the US government and IRS can tax it. Bitcoin is barter basically and can't be taxed. If I trade hunting rights to my land for a new roof and labor, IRS can't tax that or bitcoins out of thin air.

nixmahn said:   greling said:   Can someone please explain to me the real difference between BitCoin and fiat money?

One difference I know of. Fiat money is recognize by the US government and IRS can tax it. Bitcoin is barter basically and can't be taxed. If I trade hunting rights to my land for a new roof and labor, IRS can't tax that or bitcoins out of thin air.


Actually, it can be taxed by IRS. I mean, if gains from selling drugs needs to be reported, what makes one think that gains from bitcoins is any different? Its another story about compliance.

bobfather said:   Lunacies of Bitcoin:

1. The blockchain (the record of all transactions made, YES, including the cocaine and hookers you paid for using BTC) 3 years ago could fit on a floppy disk. 2 years ago could fit on a 250MB zip disk. 1 year ago could span 2 CD-Rs. Today requires a Dual-Layer DVD-R to store it. For any transaction made, the blockchain grows and between January and today it has grown about 2GB. Do the math, but the system is not setup well to accommodate for large transaction volumes. To put things into perspective, BTC networks have about 7 transactions per second. VISA does 2000-10000 transactions per second, depending upon season.



Also worth noting - over half of the blockchain can be attributed to "SatoshiDICE", a gambling game.

http://buttcoin.org/satoshidice-is-killing-bitcoin

So, to recap, Bitcoin is great for drugs, child porn and questionable gambling.

Truly the currency of the future!

So all in all, the consensus is Bitcoin is the right idea, but release 1.0 is "beta".

I can think of all sorts of reasons why something like Bitcoin will succeed in the longer term in keeping all sorts of transactions "off the books".

From all those H&B half-jokes to the the black market in services in Europe to avoid taxes and VAT. I could see a scenario in a few years where that home contractor would give you a better rate for work if you pay in whatever future more successful version of Bitcoin actually becomes the de-facto standard.

Or, the 20-something fatwallet finance forum poster of 2017 who is asking what to do with the 5,000 dollars he has burning a hole in his pocket and gets 50 replies telling him to buy a crown vic and 50 replies telling him to convert it to whatevercoins and have a blow fueled hooker orgy.

nixmahn said:   greling said:   Can someone please explain to me the real difference between BitCoin and fiat money?

One difference I know of. Fiat money is recognize by the US government and IRS can tax it. Bitcoin is barter basically and can't be taxed. If I trade hunting rights to my land for a new roof and labor, IRS can't tax that or bitcoins out of thin air.


Just because they don't see the transaction doesn't mean it's tax free. You're still legally required to report it.

Or do you believe that since I didn't see you take a cookie from the cookie jar, it's yours?

dshibb said:   greling said:   dshibb said:   greling said:   Can someone please explain to me the real difference between BitCoin and fiat money?

You're required by law and everybody does transact(buy goods, receive pay checks, and pay taxes) in one and the other is just something made up that has zero utilitarian use.


You're required by law to accept it only in the country in which it is issued, provided it is intended to settle a debt. However, you can refuse to accept cash for goods or services at any time. There is no law that says you must take cash. There is simply a law that says that if someone owes you money and you refuse legal tender cash, that the debt can be discharged in court.


The point is that dollars have transactional value bitcoins don't. Until that changes Bitcoins are an absolutely crazy position to hold IMO. It doesn't matter if a couple places have accepted them for payment until wide adoption occurs it's still just a fad and nothing more.



What are you talking about? Bitcoins have transactional value. In fact, some places only take Bitcoins for payment.

nixmahn said:   If I trade hunting rights to my land for a new roof and labor, IRS can't tax thatAbsolutely false.

Yep, even if I give you a free meal, you still have to pay taxes on it. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

timberrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

80 as of this post

b0mbrman said:   Not only that; science has been able to mimic the properties of gold (and diamonds for that matter) in materials costing way lessYou meant fool's gold and cubic zirconia, right ?

I hope you understand the gold is an element and can't be manufactured except in a nuclear reaction (read above), nor its features can be "mimicked" by other materails - except the neighbors in the periodic table, which are much rarer than gold.

Diamonds, on the other hand, are already being manufactured, and that process keeps improving, so yes - investment in diamonds is as risky as in bitcoins; but at least you have De Beers holding the dam for now

Don't want to create a new thread because there's too many bitcoin threads but
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2417700,00.asp?kc=PCRSS0306...

hahaha
the winklevii own 1% of bitcoins!

rufflesinc said:   The most you can lose if Bitcoins go to zero is 100% of your money.
The most you can make, meanwhile ...
Well, no one knows exactly how much you can make.
Isn't that a feature for every investment?


NO, this isn't an investment and some investments can lose more than 100%

bobbybore said:   rufflesinc said:   The most you can lose if Bitcoins go to zero is 100% of your money.
The most you can make, meanwhile ...
Well, no one knows exactly how much you can make.
Isn't that a feature for every investment?


NO, this isn't an investment and some investments can lose more than 100%


How exactly does one lose more than 100% buying bitcoins?

tehlorax said:   bobbybore said:   rufflesinc said:   The most you can lose if Bitcoins go to zero is 100% of your money.
The most you can make, meanwhile ...
Well, no one knows exactly how much you can make.
Isn't that a feature for every investment?


NO, this isn't an investment and some investments can lose more than 100%


How exactly does one lose more than 100% buying bitcoins?


Leverage

Wow, looks like gold is following bitcoin as Cyprus dumps all their gold on the market. Who's dumping next?

quarter29 said:   Wow, looks like gold is following bitcoin as Cyprus dumps all their gold on the market. Who's dumping next?

If gold collapses, I'll buy.

theoretically, someone could buy all the bitcoins and corner the market

then they could set their own price!

germanpope said:   theoretically, someone could buy all the bitcoins and corner the market

then they could set their own price!


And it's getting easier by the second

soundtechie said:   quarter29 said:   Wow, looks like gold is following bitcoin as Cyprus dumps all their gold on the market. Who's dumping next?

If gold collapses, I'll buy.


Perhaps GLD and SLV.
Not seeing the 4% collapse on eBay.

Cyprus is selling their gold? Wow. Sounds like the mistake Gordon Brown made. The highest heights of sheer idiocy.

I guess history does repeat itself.

Of course selling at $1900 was much wiser, but what were you doing then? one might well prove an idiot for NOT selling at way over $1500 this morning.

Comparing it to selling under $300 is Irrelevant. If you have to pay down debt, you're forced to liquidate an asset. Where is idiocy?

Cyprus is the sovereign equivalent of a junkie carrying their mother's blender into a pawn shop.

Down to $75.20. 66% loss in less than a week.

Take THAT fiat currencies!!

BobM73 said:   Down to $75.20. 66% loss in less than a week.

Take THAT fiat currencies!!


If we're going to cherry pick random time periods, you should also point out that the YTD return of bitcoin even after falling to $75 is still something like +500%.

Starting point ~$15, ending point ~$75.

ensignlee said:   BobM73 said:   Down to $75.20. 66% loss in less than a week.

Take THAT fiat currencies!!


If we're going to cherry pick random time periods, you should also point out that the YTD return of bitcoin even after falling to $75 is still something like +500%.

Starting point ~$15, ending point ~$75.


Yeah but it should also be pointed out the slide isn't finished yet.

SinglePapa said:   Of course selling at $1900 was much wiser, but what were you doing then? one might well prove an idiot for NOT selling at way over $1500 this morning.

Comparing it to selling under $300 is Irrelevant. If you have to pay down debt, you're forced to liquidate an asset. Where is idiocy?


Here is the real reason they are selling, told from the mouth of a former anti-gold Keynesian sycophant.

sure, you can keep reading website that advertise "buy gold with credit card"; you'll get all the "real" facts

SinglePapa said:   sure, you can keep reading website that advertise "buy gold with credit card"; you'll get all the "real" facts

I see you are unfamiliar with Krugman-lover Mish. Here's his blog, that folks like nycll love to cite.

That website merely uses syndicated articles, like most media outlets do. And it's supported by ads, like most media outlets are as well.

So what's the verdict?

rufflesinc said:   Yankees said:   rufflesinc said:   The most you can lose if Bitcoins go to zero is 100% of your money.
The most you can make, meanwhile ...
Well, no one knows exactly how much you can make.
Isn't that a feature for every investment?


i was about to green you then i realized that there are at least 2 exceptions to that. 1) investing in shorts 2) general partnerships
How do you lose more than you put in in a GP?


"all partners have unlimited liability, which means that they may lose more than they originally invested." link

one very real scenario is litigation. you put in $xxx to run a business, you get sued for more than the business is worth (and potentially more than you're worth) and lose.

There's not enough demand from "real" people for this currency to take off. Groups that like BC...

1. Computer hobbyists
2. "I have rights" Libertarian types
3. Criminals

And for #2 and #3, paper cash works just fine.

TravelerMSY said:   There's not enough demand from "real" people for this currency to take off. Groups that like BC...

1. Computer hobbyists
2. "I have rights" Libertarian types
3. Criminals

And for #2 and #3, paper cash works just fine.


You apparently forgot about the people whose governments are screwing them over en masse which were responsible for the bubble which started this thread.

I put the types that distrust fiat money in with the libertarians.

I know prominent libertarians, who believe Bitcoins to be a fad

TravelerMSY said:   I put the types that distrust fiat money in with the libertarians.

Uh no. There is one group which distrusts fiat money on principle and gets excited by crypto currency, and there is another group of regular folks who have been screwed over and just want shelter from a government-sanctioned looting spree.

The first group goes about their daily lives pointing out that fiat is worthless in and of itself.

The second group is looking for a lifeboat when their fiat does become worthless.

uhhh.... "Mike Caldwell, a 35-year-old software engineer based in suburban Utah. Caldwell is unusual insofar as he mints physical versions of bitcoins at his residence, cranking out thousands of homemade tokens with codes protected by tamper-proof holographic seals -- a retro-futuristic kind of prepaid cash"...and..."Under 18 U.S. 486, it's a criminal offense to make or pass any metal coins "intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design. An offense is punishable with up to 5 years in prison, a fine, or both" Good for your business to have a "free" adversement (sic) in a news article.....enjoy prison (unless perhaps tokens are made of plastic, but you'd need a good lawyer to make that argument..in FEDERAL court).

So someone or some twins bought a lot of these at a one to one exchange with the dollar then held and dramatically reduced supply...buying smaller quantities all the way up to 1 to $200...then DUMPED their bitcoins......gesh...going to zero.

It is estimated that 80% of all gold farmers are in China and with the largest internet population in the world there are thought to be 100,000 full-time gold farmers in the country.

23-year-old releases new chips that 'mine' Bitcoins 50 times...some comments on other sites said that the makers of the software programs designed to mine bitcoins will be the ones who make money...kinda of like in the gold rush.

rumors say open coin is coming next month

And all along I thought those Winkelvoss twins were dumb pretty boys.

IVYtony said:   rumors say open coin is coming next monthI'm holding out for the EuroBitcoin.

the CNBC coverage prior to this grand dump seems very suspicious

that is some pretty high tech pumping before some big time dumping



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