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http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-plunges-2013-4

They were up to $266. As of right now, they are trading at $105.

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Some of us have been. But it is very difficult to get USD into btc-e.

SomeOtherChick (Apr. 18, 2013 @ 9:53a) |

If you can find someone who owns bitcoins who will let you borrow them, then you could short them. Sell his bitcoins, an... (more)

brettdoyle (Apr. 18, 2013 @ 11:48a) |

There's Bitfinex (in beta) that allows just that. You can loan USD (to bulls) or BTC (to bears) and make interest on eit... (more)

weezyrob (Apr. 18, 2013 @ 12:39p) |

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Time to buy, buy, buy!

Orrrrrrr, time to laugh, laugh, laugh! Fake currency.

$195 right now, so volatile when a big player dumps it out. Guessing a blackmarket deal went down and someone cashed in and people waiting on the sidelines are propping it back up to stupidity levels.

Look, I don't really care what happens to BC, but this is not really evidence of a pop. This is just what happens when you have a single inexperienced person who holds massive amount (in USD) of bitcoin and executes a market sell order. Ive seen this exact thing before and bitcoin rebounded as if it never occurred. At that time, the "price" crashed from like $13 to 0.01 or less then right back up again. It's jsut that a market sell was executed that exceeded the size of the order book to a certain point.

Note the price went right back up, after the sell off.

okashiraaa said:   Look, I don't really care what happens to BC, but this is not really evidence of a pop. This is just what happens when you have a single inexperienced person who holds massive amount (in USD) of bitcoin and executes a market sell order. Ive seen this exact thing before and bitcoin rebounded as if it never occurred. At that time, the "price" crashed from like $13 to 0.01 or less then right back up again. It's jsut that a market sell was executed that exceeded the size of the order book to a certain point.

Note the price went right back up, after the sell off.


This person is a total fool... if they had split up the order they could have made alot more $$$.

Then again they are probably some kid who bought/mined them at 0.01 USD/BTC.

Don't know what bc is nor do I care to. Deal in the tangible... There are enough illusions out there.

okashiraaa said:   okashiraaa said:   Look, I don't really care what happens to BC, but this is not really evidence of a pop. This is just what happens when you have a single inexperienced person who holds massive amount (in USD) of bitcoin and executes a market sell order. Ive seen this exact thing before and bitcoin rebounded as if it never occurred. At that time, the "price" crashed from like $13 to 0.01 or less then right back up again. It's jsut that a market sell was executed that exceeded the size of the order book to a certain point.

Note the price went right back up, after the sell off.


This person is a total fool... if they had split up the order they could have made alot more $$$.

Then again they are probably some kid who bought/mined them at 0.01 USD/BTC.


A fool with $1M USD now.

I love all of these people calling BC fake, most currencies are fake by the same standards. What is the hard asset that backs Euros or USD? Disclosure I own zero BCs and never have.

Let me get this straight. A bunch of people spent real money on fake money and they lost real money today???

HAHAHA

It appears to have been a staged denial of service attack against every exchange AND every (major) forum to discuss bitcoin; this sent things spiraling.

People calling it a popped bubble are laughing (maybe it is), people who "invested" are freaking, and people "long" on Bitcoin are still long on BC. Right now, I'm not sure where I stand...somewhere between "invested" and "long."

Something about a currency exchanging being able to be shut down and manipulated without repercussions doesn't seem like a good investment...

Here's Why Bitcoin Speculators Are Just Laughing At Anyone Who Calls It A Bubble
April 9, 2013
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-bitcoin-speculators-laugh-at-...

Oh the sweet, delicious irony.

ChipLeader said:    What is the hard asset that backs Euros or USD?

Weapons?

Not going to waste my time with bitcoins

Everyone loves to buy lottery tickets.

magika said:   Here's Why Bitcoin Speculators Are Just Laughing At Anyone Who Calls It A Bubble
April 9, 2013
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-bitcoin-speculators-laugh-at-...

Oh the sweet, delicious irony.


Using the same logic presented there, a lottery ticket is the best investment ever created. You can only lose 100% of your money on that ticket, but you could gain like ~100000000%.

byex0039 said:   magika said:   Here's Why Bitcoin Speculators Are Just Laughing At Anyone Who Calls It A Bubble
April 9, 2013
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-bitcoin-speculators-laugh-at-...

Oh the sweet, delicious irony.


Using the same logic presented there, a lottery ticket is the best investment ever created. You can only lose 100% of your money on that ticket, but you could gain like ~100000000%.


lol true that. That is freaking terrible logic in that article right there. haha. And this is coming from someone who likes bitcoins.

byex0039 said:   magika said:   Here's Why Bitcoin Speculators Are Just Laughing At Anyone Who Calls It A Bubble
April 9, 2013
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-bitcoin-speculators-laugh-at-...

Oh the sweet, delicious irony.


Using the same logic presented there, a lottery ticket is the best investment ever created. You can only lose 100% of your money on that ticket, but you could gain like ~100000000%.
Agreed. You can say this with anything. My favorite part is:
Those who bought Bitcoins in early March, for example, have now made 7X their money a return of nearly 600%.
...
Are Bitcoins a good bet at $235?...
If Bitcoins go to $2,350, then that would be a 10X return...
If you win your bet, you make 1000%.

If you "made" 7x your money, it's a 700% return. If something goes from $235 to $2350, you've made 9x your money, or a 900% return. He somehow managed to get those backwards. At least he refers to it as a bet and not an investment.

Yikes! As of April-11, bitcoin is at pre-April 9 prices.

Anybody here remember the blog of the "real estate investor" who went belly up and was in all kinds of trouble after the housing market crash?

He was a younger guy, married (got divorced), and his blog was notable because he was fairly up front about his shambles of a life (but still in total denial about the whole situation). I seem to remember he was slavic, or at least had that ethnic background.

I ask because I wanted to link to it when discussing bitcoins with people who think it's certain to go up and people who doubt its sure gains are so foolish.

The most you can lose if Bitcoins go to zero is 100% of your money.
The most you can make, meanwhile ...
Well, no one knows exactly how much you can make.
Isn't that a feature for every investment?

What's going on with bitcoin valuation at the moment is certainly interesting and fun to watch, but there are deeper things to consider regarding its viability as a currency: decentralized, peer-to-peer, crypto-currency, cash equivalent, etc. Is this model sustainable? If you think so, you might want to pick up some litecoin, trading at only about $3 each...

I think putting your head in the sand here is probably the wrong approach, as is throwing your life savings at bitcoin. Decentralized crypto-currency could be a real thing...

rufflesinc said:   The most you can lose if Bitcoins go to zero is 100% of your money.
The most you can make, meanwhile ...
Well, no one knows exactly how much you can make.
Isn't that a feature for every investment?


i was about to green you then i realized that there are at least 2 exceptions to that. 1) investing in shorts 2) general partnerships

Yankees said:   rufflesinc said:   The most you can lose if Bitcoins go to zero is 100% of your money.
The most you can make, meanwhile ...
Well, no one knows exactly how much you can make.
Isn't that a feature for every investment?


i was about to green you then i realized that there are at least 2 exceptions to that. 1) investing in shorts 2) general partnerships
How do you lose more than you put in in a GP?

Bitcoin is great if you're in the IRC room where the pump and dump folks coordinate...

Cantecleer said:   Anybody here remember the blog of the "real estate investor" who went belly up and was in all kinds of trouble after the housing market crash?

He was a younger guy, married (got divorced), and his blog was notable because he was fairly up front about his shambles of a life (but still in total denial about the whole situation). I seem to remember he was slavic, or at least had that ethnic background.

I ask because I wanted to link to it when discussing bitcoins with people who think it's certain to go up and people who doubt its sure gains are so foolish.


Casey Serin

No idea what is bitcoin. I am sticking with real money.

parmenides said:   I think putting your head in the sand here is probably the wrong approach, as is throwing your life savings at bitcoin. Decentralized crypto-currency could be a real thing...

I agree it could be. However, any version where early adopters make millions (or billions?) without any real risk or effort will not be the version that succeeds in the end. So, in my opinion, there will never be a good opportunity to "invest" in a crypto-currency; investment is antithetical to its purpose.

Cantecleer said:   Anybody here remember the blog of the "real estate investor" who went belly up and was in all kinds of trouble after the housing market crash?

He was a younger guy, married (got divorced), and his blog was notable because he was fairly up front about his shambles of a life (but still in total denial about the whole situation). I seem to remember he was slavic, or at least had that ethnic background.

I ask because I wanted to link to it when discussing bitcoins with people who think it's certain to go up and people who doubt its sure gains are so foolish.


Just send them a link to AAPL. It can't possibly go down from $700 can it??

https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AAAPL&ei=l7xmUcCWN4ualg...

GodelianKnot said:   parmenides said:   I think putting your head in the sand here is probably the wrong approach, as is throwing your life savings at bitcoin. Decentralized crypto-currency could be a real thing...

I agree it could be. However, any version where early adopters make millions (or billions?) without any real risk or effort will not be the version that succeeds in the end. So, in my opinion, there will never be a good opportunity to "invest" in a crypto-currency; investment is antithetical to its purpose.


OK, but how do you stop speculation here? Open market trading = speculation. Unless the whole world was only using btc, you'll have this.

Actually, I've discovered the real value of btc: graph watching. Buy $50 worth of btc and watch your money rise and fall all day. It will take your mind off of your pure $$ investments, which is $50 well spent.

This guy invested all his credit (30,000 USD) on bit coin, as today he has no debt and know he has a pretty good amount of money.
LINK to the story

I'm curious - why so much hate on Bitcoin?

From everything I've seen, this is now the de-facto currency of international crime - for everything from drugs to gambling to human trafficking. The reason being it's not traceable, it's secure, and it is a true global currency which can't be devalued by a central bank.

While I wouldn't want to "invest" in something which caters to the worst of mankind, does it not also validate that Bitcoin is legit and won't go away, or lose its value over the long term?

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'm genuinely curious.

outtawhack said:   I'm curious - why so much hate on Bitcoin?

From everything I've seen, this is now the de-facto currency of international crime - for everything from drugs to gambling to human trafficking. The reason being it's not traceable, it's secure, and it is a true global currency which can't be devalued by a central bank.

While I wouldn't want to "invest" in something which caters to the worst of mankind, does it not also validate that Bitcoin is legit and won't go away, or lose its value over the long term?

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'm genuinely curious.


Nope, it doesn't validate these things.

Bitcoin is hard to understand, and hard to gain entry to, for most folks.

Its valuation fluctuates wildly. Strike two.

It is not anonymous - every transaction that ever was is recorded in the blockchain. Good luck digging through this to correlate transactions with people, but the government has big computers and lots of time...

It is a practical instance of a theoretical notion of decentralized peer-to-peer crypto currency... but it is not the only one. Want to make an outtawhack-coin? Go for it - you could use the same model as btc. Or better yet, you could tweak the model and make a better btc, which could spell doom for btc if you were successful, right?

Bitcoin is fun, and it has opened a new door. My thinking is that it's probably the "Model T" version of this kind of thing, fresh off the assembly line. I don't think we'll see this idea fade away, but I think we'll see better versions of it.

outtawhack said:   I'm curious - why so much hate on Bitcoin?

From everything I've seen, this is now the de-facto currency of international crime - for everything from drugs to gambling to human trafficking. The reason being it's not traceable, it's secure, and it is a true global currency which can't be devalued by a central bank.

While I wouldn't want to "invest" in something which caters to the worst of mankind, does it not also validate that Bitcoin is legit and won't go away, or lose its value over the long term?

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'm genuinely curious.


Worst of mankind? What do you call the Federal Reserve inflating food prices beyond the reach of many impoverished people in the developing world?

Ben Bernanke is a poverty spreading monster.

tennis8363 said:   Let me get this straight. A bunch of people spent real money on fake money and they lost real money today???

HAHAHA


Sounds like the stock market

Serious questions: how does one safely buy and sell bitcons?

parmenides said:   
OK, but how do you stop speculation here? Open market trading = speculation. Unless the whole world was only using btc, you'll have this.


Exactly. I imagine it evolving from something else.

One possible scenario: Given the mild success of bitcoin, a group of banks decide to create and offer a crypto-currency tied to the USD. They design it with a public/private key, such that the banks can create/destroy coins freely, but other transactions are still totally public & decentralized. They peg the value at $1 per crypto-coin and allow people to exchange for as many as they want (no artificially restricted supply like bitcoins). Obviously they also back exchanges back to USD at the same rate. (And also obviously, they charge fees for all these exchanges, which is their incentive in all this.)

Since it's offered and backed by publicly-trusted banks it becomes popular around the world. At some point the banks decide it's out of their control and they can no longer back it with a $1/coin guarantee. They remove the peg to the USD and destroy the private key, essentially fixing the number of coins. The crypto-currency would then float and be available to speculate on; however, because it's been tied to the dollar at a fixed value for so long, and is already in wide-spread circulation, the value will be more likely to float smoothly, like an established currency.

If a crypto-currency does become popular, I think this is a more likely scenario than bitcoin's.

Bitcoin is a lot like gold. There's only a finite amount and it can only be mined at a slow rate. But unlike bitcoin gold has a 2000+ year historical significance. Bitcoin is nothing more than a protocol than can be copied and imitated. The dollar has the US military and a government giving it significance. There's a big difference.

Skipping 98 Messages...
brettdoyle said:   TravelerMSY said:   umcsom said:   mapen said:   True fatwalleters are not idealists. They see that mtgox is trading at $101 and btce is trading at $96, and they wonder why they can't arbitrage that at scale.

I actually stayed awake 2 nights ago trying to figure out if it was worth trying to do this. I decided it was not, but man it is tempting.


I don't think there's any way to short sell bitcoins. I'm assuming sales transactions clear instantly.


If you can find someone who owns bitcoins who will let you borrow them, then you could short them. Sell his bitcoins, and then re-buy them later in the future to return them to him... of course it's unlikely you'd be able to find someone to go along with that transaction.


There's Bitfinex (in beta) that allows just that. You can loan USD (to bulls) or BTC (to bears) and make interest on either.



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