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Connections > GPA, IQ, education.
Not saying you don't need either one of them to continue being successful, but you definitely need connections to get your foot in the RIGHT doors. Where those connections come from is irrelevant -- a low paid internship, frat, family, whatever.

More than anything, though, don't become something JUST for the money. You'll hate yourself, and people will hate you. Especially a doctor.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/study-reveals-10-highest-low... from a Georgetown study in 2011.

With just an undergrad degree these are the top paying majors:

Median, 25th percentile, 75th percentile
Petroleum Engineering 120,000 82,000 189,000
Pharmacy Pharmaceutical Sciences and Administration 105,000 83,000 120,000
Mathematics and Computer Science 98,000 75,000 134,000
Aerospace Engineering 87,000 60,000 115,000
Chemical Engineering 86,000 60,000 120,000
Electrical Engineering 85,000 60,000 110,000
Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering 82,000 44,000 120,000
Mechanical Engineering 80,000 59,000 105,000
Metallurgical Engineering 80,000 50,000 106,000
Mining and Mineral Engineering 80,000 52,000 125,000

UAIron said:   http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/study-reveals-10-highest-low... from a Georgetown study in 2011.

With just an undergrad degree these are the top paying majors:

Median, 25th percentile, 75th percentile
Petroleum Engineering 120,000 82,000 189,000
Pharmacy Pharmaceutical Sciences and Administration 105,000 83,000 120,000
Mathematics and Computer Science 98,000 75,000 134,000
Aerospace Engineering 87,000 60,000 115,000
Chemical Engineering 86,000 60,000 120,000
Electrical Engineering 85,000 60,000 110,000
Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering 82,000 44,000 120,000
Mechanical Engineering 80,000 59,000 105,000
Metallurgical Engineering 80,000 50,000 106,000
Mining and Mineral Engineering 80,000 52,000 125,000


Hmm I think I see a theme here...

UAIron said:   http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/study-reveals-10-highest-low... from a Georgetown study in 2011.

With just an undergrad degree these are the top paying majors:

Median, 25th percentile, 75th percentile
Petroleum Engineering 120,000 82,000 189,000
Pharmacy Pharmaceutical Sciences and Administration 105,000 83,000 120,000
Mathematics and Computer Science 98,000 75,000 134,000
Aerospace Engineering 87,000 60,000 115,000
Chemical Engineering 86,000 60,000 120,000
Electrical Engineering 85,000 60,000 110,000
Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering 82,000 44,000 120,000
Mechanical Engineering 80,000 59,000 105,000
Metallurgical Engineering 80,000 50,000 106,000
Mining and Mineral Engineering 80,000 52,000 125,000


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STEM_fields

Salaries on Payscale seem very outdated, they are probably taking salaries from 2003 to 2013 to come up with average in the field.

OP you have mentioned several times that your kid is good at everything and equally interested/tested well in all areas. i interpret this as such.. you are not taking the right kind of aptitude/interest tests. please have him take the myers briggs type indicator (MBTI) and at least 2 or 3 other professional aptitude tests.

the myers briggs alone was a HUGE help in identifying my personality type and finding further reading to help me get serious about a career.

i forget which other tests i took, but it wasn't really possible to be equally good at everything on them. the point of all of them is to parse individual's talents and interests.

kahunabob said:   Community College Professor!! Only need a Master's degree (or less...think welding professor or auto shop professor). Zero research! Tenure! Winters Off! Summers Off! Sweet Pension!....Low six figure income....

I'm in California....don't know how the gig works in other states.

Nothing better!


In other states it's not nearly as good-- budget cuts. Around here, a CC prof makes a flat $1000 per credit hour per semester, the "benefits" are a HDHP and your own office. No 403b, no tenure. (An old roommate of mine teaches full time and barely clears $50k. He's trying to work his way up to the local state university.)

stanolshefski said:   elektronic said:   nasheedb said:   Get into politics. Politicians seem to be able to accumulate millions of dollars of net worth on upper middle class salaries

They make $200k/year, plus a tax-free housing stipend plus free meals multiple times a week.

When you make $200k/year and pay less than half what most folks pay for food, housing and transportation, I'd call that upper class.


Outside the President, Vice President and Governors -- no one gets free or subsidized housing in politics.

Also, 99.2% of members of Congress make $174K -- not over $200K. They do get free transportation from home to DC, a pension after 5 years of service, and very good health insurance.


Turns out I was wrong, I was under the impression many states paid their congressmen per diem when in DC.
They all do get subsidized housing - an extra tax deduction on expenses when away from their home states.

bytem3 said:   avalon6 said:   brettdoyle said:   Isn't the pharmacist profession ripe for automation?
At the company I used to work for they ran a large mail order pharmacy... the entire operation was automated with very little human interaction and it was sending out millions of prescriptions.


Your right. Many hospitals currently have computerized drug dispensing machines. It's only time until these are rolled out to retail stores and replace pharmacists. Also, pharmacists don't have an effective lobbying group like doctors/dentists/nurses (i.e. AMA/ADA)

The meds that come out of the Omnicells originate from the central hospital Pharmacy, where the sorting and safety/quality checks are done manually by Pharmacists. I don't know about the role of Pharmacists (Registered Pharmacists) in the retail setting, but PharmDs (Doctorate of Pharmacy; they have much more training than an RPh and some even do a one-year inpatient pharmacy residency to be competitive) are invaluable in the inpatient setting when you're trying to reconcile and adjust someone's 30+ medications.


Maybe this is the case elsewhere, but every inpatient pharmacist I've dealt with hasn't really contributed much on the services I've been on. I will say that I spent some time with a pharmD doing diabetic education (actually spending 1-2 hours per patient) and I do think that was very beneficial for the patients.

HumDoHamaraDo said:   Why do 7 years of Pharmacy when couple of more years and you can have a MD.

7 years versus at a minimum 11 for being a physician, but many specialties will require 12-14 years (including 4, 5 year residencies + fellowship).

What is your definition of rich? IMO, its nearly impossible to be rich and have a job, taxes will kill you.

puddonhead said:   sgogo said:   ...However, what I have seen does not conform with that.

...

Again, just what I have seen and experienced. I am sure there are plenty of situations as you describe.

Regards
Steve


You have more experience with this particular issue, so your observation is probably correct more often than mine. I'll try to clarify a few more points, however.

>> Also, most companies I have worked at (or now do work for) would not let someone take any time off and still bill for it.

Just to clarify, the idea wasn't to bill for hours not worked. The consultants were anyway working more than 40 hours every week. They would usually not bill for more than 40 hours (pretty standard in my experience, which is way less than yours).

If they took some time off for whatever reason (thereby giving the budget a breather), then for a few weeks they were allowed to bill the extra hours beyond 40 that they actually worked to the extent that they made up for the lost hours.

These positions were not outsourced. They would still report to and work closely with some manager at the client to the point that you would not be able to tell apart a "consultant" from an "employee" unless you looked them up in the HRI systems.

The kind of consulting that you are doing now would obviously be much higher in the value chain. Could it be that the disconnect is due to this? The kind of jobs I am referring to would be something similar to this one Ad for Java Developer. In these positions, I have typically seen that the consultants go in with an expectation to be renewed for years without any additional lobbying etc. and any other downtimes.


Baased on that advertisement, and your description, it looks like an outsourced position. When I say outsourced, I do not mean overseas... just that rather than hiring a person, they brought in an hourly position.

However, many of these fail the IRS test. To be "OK" with this arrangement, the employer cannot dictate the work hours, cannot dictate how the tasks are done, Where the tasks are done, etc. The employer can only use incentive payments and goals. Generally, if you work 40 hours a week, on a company site, for a year, you are pretty much an employee.

Failure to follow these rules has penalties, as well as the employer owing back FUTA, Social Security, Medicare, etc. It is a pretty big deal... if a company misrepresents this on a lot of employees, they save a bundle.

I think these positions may have been under less scrutiny since 2008 due to the economy (nobody wants to impact the labor force). However, the government will refocus on these again.

That being said, I do not think the risk to the employee for taking this kind of job is high. I think the employer has the risk.

Regards
SteveG

FWIW I'd strongly recommend pursuing an IT degree (computer science, software engineering, information systems, etc.). Once out of college get hired on by a mid-size firm that works with enterprise software (Oracle, SAP, etc.). This is the kind of stuff that Fortune 500 companies always need and use, will throw very big dollars at, and where there always seems to be a lack of high quality people. Learn the software well and set yourself apart with your quality of work and interpersonal skills. With the right networking, you can either branch off as an independent consultant (75-125 $/hr gross), or possibly start your own small-to-mid sized firm (lot more risk, lot more reward, but realistically to get 175 $/hr gross for yourself plus 50-125 $/hr gross off every consultant you employ...either that or be a broker and get 25-50 $/hr off every resource you place).

Consider CRNA position (nurse-anesthesia). It requires bachelor of nursing plus master's degree. Earnings in so cal is $100/hr, doing mostly outpt ("easy") cases, work as much as you want. And with growing aging population requiring more procedures the job prospect is bright. Being a male is also a plus as easier to get in to nursing program. Incomewise, length/difficulty of education and responsibility beats being primary care doctor, pharmacist, chiropractor, physican assistant, etc for sure.

Medicine offers guaranteed 6 figure salary - $125-200K for primary care (not worth it in my opinion given length of training) or specialist ($300K-700K). Being a specialist is a way to go if you go into medicine. I, for example, am 35 and earning well over $600K being 3 years from fellowship training.

Lawyers - I think will earn over $100k if you finish top ranked law school. Same for MBA. Otherwise you wills tart below $100K if you are lucky to find a job. Then you will be at the top 10 of 200 people applying for a job, and most likely secure your first job through connections prior to finishing school. Also with law, it is difficult to pass BAR, so you may end up with law degree, student loans, but unable to practice.

Another important aspect to keep in mind is being employed vs owning a business. Incomes cited widely here are pre-tax. Taxes will reduce take home pay by up to 30-40%. Running your own business allows you to deduct business expenses, and tax saving could be significant. In other words, self employed person earning $200K/yr will take home more cash than employed one with same salary. So you should ask yourself if you are the type to run own business or not.

MDfive21 said:   OP you have mentioned several times that your kid is good at everything and equally interested/tested well in all areas. i interpret this as such.. you are not taking the right kind of aptitude/interest tests. please have him take the myers briggs type indicator (MBTI) and at least 2 or 3 other professional aptitude tests.

the myers briggs alone was a HUGE help in identifying my personality type and finding further reading to help me get serious about a career.

i forget which other tests i took, but it wasn't really possible to be equally good at everything on them. the point of all of them is to parse individual's talents and interests.


I'd strongly agree with this.

Being 'good at everything' at the high school level really doesn't say much. Means he can get straight A's in high school. That says little about real aptitude. It does say he has the potential to succeed in most fields academically at least.

There are many 'big money jobs' that we could all cite. But the better choice for him will be the ones he has real aptitude for.

As a (former) engineer, I can tell you that you want to stay away from any kind of hard core technical roles if you want to make money. Remember that only the most diligent students (and nerds) become engineers. As an engineer, you are essentially in a pie eating contest where the winner gets more pie. Unless you are brilliant, you will be in an uphill battle against people who are smarter than you.

Gauss44 said:   In your opinion, for a high school senior who's choosing a career path, which of the following requires the 1st most, the 2nd most, and the 3rd most:

1. Training or education
2. Luck or abnormally high IQ
3. Overall likelihood of getting rich

A doctor, lawyer, investment banker, or something else (real estate, investing well, being thrifty, etc.)?

Feel free to discuss specific specialties or practice areas in your response.

Background: A bunch of us have been debating this lately, so I want to know what you think. Career counselor isn't helpful. Student has an A average and is a high school senior. He's well-rounded and kind of likes all school subjects equally.


First of all getting rich requires spending less than you make, and accumulating the difference.

A high salary helps, but not if you spend more than you make. It is not hard to spend several thousand dollars a year, because you tend to spend what you have, until you apply discipline.

The keys to a high salary are:

1)Interpersonal skills - Sucking up effectively, dishing work off on others, standing up for yourself, popularity, politics, networking, looking good, and ability to BS.
2)Hard work - If you choose a career you love this will come easy
3)Average intelligence, not much more - High IQ often gets in the way of making more money, because hard facts usually get in the way of the interpersonal skills and BS part.

If you do have a high IQ then the advanced degrees become more important to make up for the lack of interpersonal skills, unless you are lucky enough to have both! Then you need a PHD, MD, JD to separate yourself from the mess of people that BS and get in your way, and attain their respect.

If you're good at most everything, I would recommend the route I went. Engineering/technical degree in college, then law school to do patent work. Since the supply is limited, patent lawyers don't face the same competition other lawyers do, which is killing most of the profession. In patent law, it is a huge plus to be both good technically and at writing and communicating with clients and colleagues. Right out of law school I had a $130k/yr job at 40 hours/wk (small firm). Plus there are lots of solo patent attorneys, it's an easy retirement route once you have accumulated the wealth you want. Also you have flexibility in case you decide not to go into law, since you can do lots of things with technical degrees, including business/investment banking.

Corporate IT, you can pull down $100-150k without too much effort. Beyond that you have to go into management in some level.

jb3ker said:   puddonhead said:   KayK said:   150k easily for a programming job? I dont think so. I work for a Fortune 50 company and I started off with 55k. I'm up to 70k now after 6 years. Yeah I'm not in a "tech" area (I'm in North NJ.. but not NYC/Jersey city area), but that doesnt matter that much.

North NJ is very much in the high paying area. You also have the hedge fund hub in Southern CT that is within commuting distance.

Trick of the trade is to not stick around with the same employer for more than 2 years, specially not big companies. Do a few strategic jumps and in 8/10 years you will be pushing $150k/year doing exactly what you're doing right now.

It sounds counter-intuitive and even stupid. I used to think just like you a few years ago. After a few salary negotiations, I now know how the HR behaves during the negotiations.

Once you reach the right pay band, then you should stick around with the same employer.


Very useful information. Can you explain how Hr behaves during negotiations?


Would love a response for this. In my experience your bachelors guy will start in the $50k range, then after 2-3 years you can hop up to $80k. You can probably hop 1-2 more times like this.

JamesPolk said:   As a (former) engineer, I can tell you that you want to stay away from any kind of hard core technical roles if you want to make money. Remember that only the most diligent students (and nerds) become engineers. As an engineer, you are essentially in a pie eating contest where the winner gets more pie. Unless you are brilliant, you will be in an uphill battle against people who are smarter than you.

Were you a practicing engineer or an engineering degree dropout?

I'm an engineer, by no means a nerd - actually more of a meat-head than anything. My experience is different than the above statement. It is also true that any field that pays well will be competitive to some degree.

You should consider online teaching/community college teaching. If you get a system down, you can easily make six digits a year if not more. If your field requires heavy paper grading, may want to adjust down - but there's plenty of ways one can assess skill without taking time. I've had just as many professors have four scantron tests and no paper as I did someone who wanted a weekly essay.

When I was teaching, I started out with that gleam in my eye - wanting papers/labs/discussions/debates in all classes.. and got over that real fast.

Plus, when you apply for a community college job, with your PhD and experience, you have a real edge over those with just a Masters degree.. unless your passion is truly wanting to research and not teach..

magika said:   absolut812003 said:   
A graduate degree in the right field and ability will net you far more than being a retail pharmacist ever will. Choosing not to go into retail pharmacy was a great career decision for me, financially as well as intellectually. You possibly can not imagine how boring working at a pharmacy is or at least was 7 years ago.


I would love to know what graduate degrees other than pharmacy: (1) pay 130k+ starting, and (2) are so in demand even people who perform at the bottom of their class can get the job. I would gladly exchange that work and pay schedule to be bored at work.

By the way, not on topic but I find the degree inflation in the medicine related fields to be hysterical. Until a few years ago pharmacy was a bachelors level degree, now its a doctorate. Nursing and physicians assistants are doing it too - if they don't both become doctorate degrees magically in the next 15 years I would be surprised. I guess everyone wants to call themselves Dr.

deal drukqs

oopsz said:   kahunabob said:   Community College Professor!! Only need a Master's degree (or less...think welding professor or auto shop professor). Zero research! Tenure! Winters Off! Summers Off! Sweet Pension!....Low six figure income....

I'm in California....don't know how the gig works in other states.

Nothing better!


In other states it's not nearly as good-- budget cuts. Around here, a CC prof makes a flat $1000 per credit hour per semester, the "benefits" are a HDHP and your own office. No 403b, no tenure. (An old roommate of mine teaches full time and barely clears $50k. He's trying to work his way up to the local state university.)


Just with any field, there are smart decisions you can make and not so smart decisions you can make. Certain areas do better. Yes, we don't have tenure - but tenure is something just about everyone in the world technically doesn't have - but my co-workers say you have to do something illegal or refuse to change something wrong about 25 times to get canned.

An English community college professor may not do as well (dollar per hour wise) as an economics professor. With anything, it's about your system and how you can automate it.

My wife has a part time job to where if I could develop a web crawler that would pull data off an art catalog, she could make potentially hundreds of dollars an hour, but she just types it in.. and I don't know the kind of people who could develop that.

kahunabob said:   Community College Professor!! Only need a Master's degree (or less...think welding professor or auto shop professor). Zero research! Tenure! Winters Off! Summers Off! Sweet Pension!....Low six figure income....

I'm in California....don't know how the gig works in other states.

Nothing better!


It was great in the past, but the opportunities for full time teaching positions are decreasing. CCs now tend to only hire part timers for staffing needs.

The CC Professor jobs are hard to get, but it is possible. 2/3 of the teachers are part-time but there is still the 1/3 that are full time. Also, in my department, most of the part-timers have 'regular' jobs and are hoping to transition into full-time. So, while they are waiting for their opportunity, they make a couple of extra bucks... IF they aren't dopey, there is a pretty good chance that their time will come.

Also, my school does not have restrictions on moonlighting....So I am able to pick up extra part-time gigs at a couple of universities. The best move I ever made....

I recently graduated from a "top" undergrad school, so I can give you an idea of what I have seen among my friends and peers. This information is based on offers I received, conversations with friends, and conversations with people in these industries. This is what I've see in order of 1st year compensation:

1) Hedge Funds / PE (difficult to break into, but those who do can clear $150K in their first year, or even more for the best quants)

2) Investment Banking (not too difficult to break into if you attend a 'target' school). Tough environment, but has the potential to earn you a lot of money very quickly. You'll probably make around 75K base + ~30K(?) in bonus (bonuses have sucked the last few years). Most people complete a 2 year analyst program, at which point they are in very high demand for their training, especially among PE firms and hedge funds. Here is a link which will give you a rough idea of i-banking pay at the bulge-bracket firms: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/salary/investment-banking-compensation

3) 'Tech stuff': Think Google/Microsoft/Facebook/etc. I personally don't know much about this space, but I've heard people are getting offers in the ~90K range. The top tech people always seem to be in high demand.

4) Consulting: The 'big three' will pay around 75K base + 15K in bonuses/retirement matching in your first year. After working for 2-3 years they will pay for you to get your MBA as long as you return for two years. In your first year out of B-school you will make around ~185K in salary and bonus. Consulting also has great exit ops to enter industry, PE, or other areas (PE firms will pay ~250-350K for consultants with 2-3 years of experience). The following link is a little dated, but gives you a general idea of consulting pay at each step in the career: http://www.caseinterview.com/consulting-salary

Keep in mind that being able to break into these industries can be difficult if you do not attend one of the 'target' schools at which the top firms recruit. That being said, I know plenty of people from lesser-known schools who managed to get amazing jobs, although it took a lot of networking and perseverance.

igorek24 said:   Being a specialist is a way to go if you go into medicine.This is like saying that if you go into business, being like Warren Buffett is the way to do it.

In general, medicine does offer incredible job stability, which is virtually unmatched in any other occupation. At the same time, if money is your primary motivation, when you consider the effort, there are other occupations that offer financial rewards that are far more superior. You also have to factor in lifestyle factors -- there is a reason, for instance, that dermatology is one of the most competitive specialties to get into, even though dermatologists are not even in the vicinity of being the most well compensated physicians. The reason that dermatology is so popular is the lifestyle that it offers: there is no call, regular hours and very little, if any, drama, which is not something that most physicians can say about their lifestyles.

Lawyers - I think will earn over $100k if you finish top ranked law school.As an fyi, first year associate salaries at large firms are $160K/year plus bonuses. This is what 24 year old law school graduates can make. The vast majority of law school graduates do not work for large firms, however, and other types of legal employers pay way, way less than large firms (they can and often do offer much better lifestyles, however).

Also with law, it is difficult to pass BAR, so you may end up with law degree, student loans, but unable to practice.As an fyi, the top 200 or so law schools (in other words, not a very exclusive group) have first time bar passage rates in the 90%-99%. Physician licensing requirements are actually a lot more rigorous than those that lawyers have to contend with.

In other words, self employed person earning $200K/yr will take home more cash than employed one with same salary. It's actually the opposite. Self-employed individuals pay both parts of FICA, whereas W2'd individuals pay 1/2 of it. Further, W2'd individuals typically receive additional benefits from their employers (healthcare subsidies, retirement matching, etc...). Hence, the reason that we say that a self-employed person typically has to earn 25%-35% more than a W2'd individual to have equivalent net compensation.

Being self-employed does typically let you control your own destiny, which can allow you to make more money, but the compensation example that you've given here is incorrect and objectively so.

Here is another good one....Lineman. My buddy's kid wasn't so smart. He took the lineman class at LA Trade Tech college in Los Angeles. Community college tuition - cheap for the one semester of education. He got hired with a local utilty....Makes 6 figure income...only 21 years old.....Minimum schooling (one semester).

Now this is a dangerous job....deals with heights and electricty...

I think Linemen make good money across the country...But I am not sure.

If child wants to do everything and make lots of money while under performing, look up Heath Shuler wiki. College star quarterback, Redskins traded whole bunch to get him early in the draft, paid him a whole bunch and he did squat. He bumbed around the NFL warming benches then actually got a seat in Congress. He made some money own a contruction/housing company.

elaye said:   bytem3 said:   avalon6 said:   brettdoyle said:   Isn't the pharmacist profession ripe for automation?
At the company I used to work for they ran a large mail order pharmacy... the entire operation was automated with very little human interaction and it was sending out millions of prescriptions.


Your right. Many hospitals currently have computerized drug dispensing machines. It's only time until these are rolled out to retail stores and replace pharmacists. Also, pharmacists don't have an effective lobbying group like doctors/dentists/nurses (i.e. AMA/ADA)

The meds that come out of the Omnicells originate from the central hospital Pharmacy, where the sorting and safety/quality checks are done manually by Pharmacists. I don't know about the role of Pharmacists (Registered Pharmacists) in the retail setting, but PharmDs (Doctorate of Pharmacy; they have much more training than an RPh and some even do a one-year inpatient pharmacy residency to be competitive) are invaluable in the inpatient setting when you're trying to reconcile and adjust someone's 30+ medications.


Maybe this is the case elsewhere, but every inpatient pharmacist I've dealt with hasn't really contributed much on the services I've been on. I will say that I spent some time with a pharmD doing diabetic education (actually spending 1-2 hours per patient) and I do think that was very beneficial for the patients.


The PharmDs I'm referring to are the ones that physically go round with the inpatient medicine teams and that (pro)actively follow all of those patients, not the ones that sit in the central pharmacy (assuming that there are some that do, since I've never met them).

I'm not sure why you would have a PharmD doing diabetic education. In clinic, we have diabetes educators who do that all day and have 1h with each patient. We also have PharmDs that have certain days where they have 1h/patient where the goal is to consolidate/minimize their 20+ medications (of which most are BID-TID, naturally ) and then re/educate patients about their meds.

nixmahn said:   If child wants to do everything and make lots of money while under performing, look up Heath Shuler wiki. College star quarterback, Redskins traded whole bunch to get him early in the draft, paid him a whole bunch and he did squat. He bumbed around the NFL warming benches then actually got a seat in Congress. He made some money own a contruction/housing company.

ROFLOL!!! I remember that bum!!! I'm a huge Auburn Fan!

igorek24 said:   
I, for example, am 35 and earning well over $600K being 3 years from fellowship training.



Congratulations on that! What are some of the higher paid specialties? Which are the less competitive higher paid specialties? (I'm sure they're all competitive, but which ones are less relatively speaking.)

MDfive21 said:   OP you have mentioned several times that your kid is good at everything and equally interested/tested well in all areas. i interpret this as such.. you are not taking the right kind of aptitude/interest tests. please have him take the myers briggs type indicator (MBTI) and at least 2 or 3 other professional aptitude tests.

the myers briggs alone was a HUGE help in identifying my personality type and finding further reading to help me get serious about a career.

i forget which other tests i took, but it wasn't really possible to be equally good at everything on them. the point of all of them is to parse individual's talents and interests.


He took myers briggs. If I remember right, he didn't like his results and thought they didn't describe him accurately. (He also took a test where he got top scores in analytical and influential categories.) We will see which careers he likes and if any of those tests back the career choices, and how they do or don't match up. Ultimately, it's his decision. We're trying to help him make an informed one. Btw, it's my friend's son. I posted this question with permission.

kahunabob said:   Here is another good one....Lineman. My buddy's kid wasn't so smart. He took the lineman class at LA Trade Tech college in Los Angeles. Community college tuition - cheap for the one semester of education. He got hired with a local utilty....Makes 6 figure income...only 21 years old.....Minimum schooling (one semester).

Now this is a dangerous job....deals with heights and electricty...

I think Linemen make good money across the country...But I am not sure.

I hear that you can make more money as a lineman if you are with one of these teams that travel across the country to repair heavily storm damaged areas. You often work more hours & get overtime during these events.

Gauss44 said:   What are some of the higher paid specialties? Which are the less competitive higher paid specialties? (I'm sure they're all competitive, but which ones are less relatively speaking.)You may want to read the following thread: Does it make financial sense to become a doctor?

geo123 said:   Gauss44 said:   What are some of the higher paid specialties? Which are the less competitive higher paid specialties? (I'm sure they're all competitive, but which ones are less relatively speaking.)You may want to read the following thread: Does it make financial sense to become a doctor?

You might also want to search over on http://www.bogleheads.org/ as there are a lot of doctors over there and there have been numerous threads on the subject. My take from reading some of those threads is most docs appear to think the future will be less bright than the past for them. Whether this is valid or FUD I don't know.

nixmahn said:   If child wants to do everything and make lots of money while under performing, look up Heath Shuler wiki. College star quarterback, Redskins traded whole bunch to get him early in the draft, paid him a whole bunch and he did squat. He bumbed around the NFL warming benches then actually got a seat in Congress. He made some money own a contruction/housing company.

But he could hit either goal post from the 40 yard line on his knees (or that was his claim to fame). I thought it was impressive that he could throw that far from his knees until I tried it one day and had no problem throwing it 90-95% of my standing throw distance. Hitting the goal post from that far out was a completely different issue.

nixmahn said:   If child wants to do everything and make lots of money while under performing, look up Heath Shuler wiki. College star quarterback, Redskins traded whole bunch to get him early in the draft, paid him a whole bunch and he did squat. He bumbed around the NFL warming benches then actually got a seat in Congress. He made some money own a contruction/housing company.

Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell say Hi as well.

puddonhead said:   rufflesinc said:   puddonhead said:   KayK said:   150k easily for a programming job? I dont think so. I work for a Fortune 50 company and I started off with 55k. I'm up to 70k now after 6 years. Yeah I'm not in a "tech" area (I'm in North NJ.. but not NYC/Jersey city area), but that doesnt matter that much.

North NJ is very much in the high paying area. You also have the hedge fund hub in Southern CT that is within commuting distance.

Trick of the trade is to not stick around with the same employer for more than 2 years, specially not big companies. Do a few strategic jumps and in 8/10 years you will be pushing $150k/year doing exactly what you're doing right now.

It sounds counter-intuitive and even stupid. I used to think just like you a few years ago. After a few salary negotiations, I now know how the HR behaves during the negotiations.

Once you reach the right pay band, then you should stick around with the same employer.
how do you explain away only being at your previous employers for 2 years?


In IT, you may not even need to!

You should not overdo the jumping thing. A jump where you're really "wanted" will net you a 20-30% raise. If you are merely okay, it should still give you a 10 % raise. Do that 2-3 times and and you will reach the limits of what the market will bear while nobody will bat an eyelid.

Of course IT has low skill dead end jobs as well. IT support comes to mind. Get the hell out of those positions as fast as you can.


As someone in IT support who makes a good salary but in a deadend job I agree with the statement above. Get out as soon as you can if you enter the support field.

nm

Gotta love this thread... For the most part an expression of ideals, predispositions... And very little about what the end goal aught to be, though based on the ops skewed misunderstanding of.... Of course the answer lies within oneself.



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