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I was approved for financing from Up2Drive online.

However, one of the dealers told me it was the rule that dealerships have to run your credit even when you have your own financing or cash. Is that true? I don't want yet another hit on my report for no reason/benefit.

Thanks!

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In the past they would simply run it even for a test drive.

I was checking my credit report and an alias for my name show... (more)

LorenPechtel (Jun. 29, 2013 @ 11:45a) |

I had PENFED @1.79% but They gave me 0%. My credit is over 800 so 1 more inqury to get 0%.It's ok by me

art07154 (Jul. 13, 2013 @ 11:19a) |

We needed something different and it's been awhile since I have car shopped. Following this thread, I was a little worri... (more)

foxhopper (Jul. 13, 2013 @ 2:16p) |

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http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/981661/

They may cite the PATRIOT Act/OFCA etc., because it's an easy way to verify your identity for cash transactions.
If they really want your business, they don't have to run a credit check on you. A state-issued ID is entirely sufficient.

They'll change their story as soon as you just stand up and walk.

There are many ways to identify yourself such as a driver's license. Call BS and threaten to leave. When you legally buy used on Craigslist, there are no credit checks involved to complete transaction and registration. This "you're a terrorist/wrongdoer until proven otherwise" is getting ridiculous.

Well what dealers are telling me is they aren't worried about the above when it's finance company instead of cash.

They are worried if you really have a financial contract. I have had 4 dealers tell me this now. They want to see the credit hit from my finance company on my report to feel secure about it. I guess there is no way around it?

Tell them bye.

There is a way around it. Tell them to call you if they want your business and leave. You having a financial contract is irrelevant. They will see the check and I think they are just fishing trying to sell you on financing options. This is why I have never bought a car at a dealership. I just go on eBay.

I would walk. There is no need for them to run your credit if you are not going to use them. If they think that your check is bogus, they can call your finance company to verify it. Besides, running your credit does not prove or disprove you have financing elsewhere. Agree that they are lying to you to try to sell you their financing. Just based on the fact that they are being this shady early, I would not trust them. Watch out for other BS fees if you continue to work with them.

This was the first hurdle of my car buying battle years ago. I refused to let them run a credit check because I had financing lined up. The manager looked like he wanted to fight me during this ordeal. I couldn't believe the rage towards someone that wanted to spend a ton of money on his product. I called my BOA financing and they said I don't need to have my credit checked. The manager loudly argued with the BOA rep. Later the manager said that the price that I claimed to have been quoted must be from a different model. I whipped out the internet quote that detailed everything and he looked like someone kicked him in the groin. He sheepishly walked back to his office defeated because he knew that I wasn't the typical sucker. That probably doesn't happen very often.

It was funny because the manager was extremely confrontational and agitated but after the sale they kept telling me how important a perfect review is for the dealership when I am contacted. It really is some strange and baffling battle - buying a car. It still feels good to this day.

So what if they run your credit? Multiple hits in a short period of time for the same type of loan aren't going to impact your score.

Dealers make a boatload of $$$ when you finance through them.

If the finance manager was any kind of savy, he would have asked you what your rate was and offered to BEAT IT if you financed through one of their lenders.
I have heard/read of this happening a lot. But I guess he may have actually needed to know your credit score (i.e. pull your credit) in order to know if you were a good candidate for any great rates currently running.

The multiple inquiries are a pain but unless you have the ultimate rock bottom interest rate available (like Penfed's 1.79%) then it maybe worth it in the long run ($$$) to see if they can beat it. That is, if your credit profile is excellent.

mac911 said:   I was approved for financing from Up2Drive online.

However, one of the dealers told me it was the rule that dealerships have to run your credit even when you have your own financing or cash. Is that true? I don't want yet another hit on my report for no reason/benefit.

Thanks!


Say, "Well that's a real shame your policy is like that." Then walk to the dealership across the street and let them know what happened.

KYBOSH said:   Dealers make a boatload of $$$ when you finance through them.

If the finance manager was any kind of savy, he would have asked you what your rate was and offered to BEAT IT if you financed through one of their lenders.
I have heard/read of this happening a lot.


I have had this happen. I went in with my own financing, they told me in advance that if my credit was above a certain score, they could probably beat it and did.

stat9 said:   
It was funny because the manager was extremely confrontational and agitated but after the sale they kept telling me how important a perfect review is for the dealership when I am contacted. It really is some strange and baffling battle - buying a car. It still feels good to this day.


So, did you have fun filling out the manufacturer's "rate our dealer" card?

Reminds me of a situation I got myself into at Bill Snethkamp's Dodge and Saab some years ago.
They were running a nice year end clearance sale on a car that Dodge was giving a 20% of MSRP rebate on. I test drove one with my favorite Saab salesman, but didn't buy that day. Next week I dropped in to sign a contract, and there were a couple of little snags.
My salesman had injured himself and wasn't at work that day.
No problem, I'll take the eager young guy who was "up" at the time.
The car I drove was gone.
No problem, they could transfer one in overnight from another dealer.
So I signed a sales agreement, gave them a deposit, and left my financial info with the F&I manager to see if she could get me a better deal than my credit union.

Next morning I stopped at the credit union with the sales agreement and walked out with a check for the full amount. Before 10am, I was at Snethkamp's with my contract in one hand and check in another. A porter was washing a car outside, identical in color and options to the car I'd bought the previous afternoon. Walked in the door, and my salesman from yesterday was looking unhappy. He told me the F&I manager said I was unfinancable and she 'released' my car and I couldn't have it.
"What? When I talked to her about 6pm, we agreed that I'd get my own financing. Now it's barely 9:30 the next morning and the car you sold me is gone?" "It's out of my hands, you'll have to talk to Mr Snethkamp about that."

So, I sit down in Bill Snethkamp's (there's a Bill Sr and a Bill Jr, I forget which one this was) office, where he tells me that the car I contracted to buy yesterday never existed, therefore he can't sell it to me. "If this whole deal was a fraud, just give me back my deposit and I'm out of here." "Sure, the cashier over there will make out a check for you." "If this contract we signed less than 18 hours ago isn't worth the paper it's written on, what should I think your check is worth?" So I made Mr Snethkamp walk with me to the cashier's window and get a cash refund. He seemed a bit upset and insulted.

As I was walking out the door, a salesman who I'd never even talked to walked up to me, pointed at the car I'd seen being washed as I walked in, and told me that was my car but they decided not to let me have it because I was an asshole. I took my contract to the Plymouth dealer and said to the first guy I saw "can you beat this deal?"

The punsh line: a couple of months later, I got a postcard in the mail from Dodge wanting to know how satisfactory my sales experience with Snethkamp's was on the Caravan I'd bought. (I bought a car, not a van, and bought it from another dealer, but I was glad for the chance to tell Dodge just how much I enjoyed doing business with Mr Snethkamp)

If you are paying by personal check they might to convince themselves that the check won't bounce. I've bought several cars in cash (by personal check) and each time the process takes amazingly long in which all I do is sit around for a hour or two. I think they are just stalling while they check up on me.

Freeze your reports. Present the check from your own financing and your identification.

Tell them you're happy to buy the car using this check. If they don't want to accept it, you'll be just as happy to visit another dealer that will.

I'm sure they'll suddenly come up with some special exception they can make and sell you the car.

Are y'all 19 or something and barely qualified for a loan? One credit pull isn't worth going to war over, IMO.

TravelerMSY said:   Are y'all 19 or something and barely qualified for a loan? One credit pull isn't worth going to war over, IMO.


I have to agree .. And if its really that big of a deal.. You can always bump em..

Its never ONE credit pull.

Why do you care if they run your credit? If you finance online they will also run your credit. When making a car purchase, multiple credit pulls within a couple week period won't impact your score. EVERY new car purchase I have ever made, they have done this. My theory is they don't want to waste their time on someone with poor/no credit, no test drive for someone with bad credit and most dealerships have arrangements with financial institutions and want to try and finance you regardless of your prior financing arangements. Just tell them your preapproved interest rate and the worst case is they will not be able to beat it.

One credit pull isn't worth going to war over, IMO.
Pfft come on one pull is ALWAYS worth going to war over...

KYBOSH said:   Dealers make a boatload of $$$ when you finance through them.

If the finance manager was any kind of savy, he would have asked you what your rate was and offered to BEAT IT if you financed through one of their lenders.
I have heard/read of this happening a lot. But I guess he may have actually needed to know your credit score (i.e. pull your credit) in order to know if you were a good candidate for any great rates currently running.

The multiple inquiries are a pain but unless you have the ultimate rock bottom interest rate available (like Penfed's 1.79%) then it maybe worth it in the long run ($$$) to see if they can beat it. That is, if your credit profile is excellent.
So finance through them for 1 week for whatever they want to get their phony "low purchase price" based on their ridiculous interest rate then immediately re-fi with Pen-Fed or whoever 24hours after you leave the showroom. That'll really screw their bottom line. I did that on my last car going from 7.00% to 1.49% in less than a week. I just took anything they offered (making sure of course there was no prepayment penalty). With a 790+ CS I wasn't worried about refinancing.

Paid cash for a new car a couple of years ago. Dealer did not run my credit, did not even ask to do so. My driver's license was sufficient.

KYBOSH said:   Its never ONE credit pull.

Good point.

Let a F&I manager get your SSN and they'll run it through every creditor they have access to in order to find out where the most profit lies.

I have friends that work in the car dealership. They want to run your credit so they can try and give you a better rate. They make money off of the banks when they can get you the loan.

stat9 said:   This was the first hurdle of my car buying battle years ago. I refused to let them run a credit check because I had financing lined up. The manager looked like he wanted to fight me during this ordeal. I couldn't believe the rage towards someone that wanted to spend a ton of money on his product. I called my BOA financing and they said I don't need to have my credit checked. The manager loudly argued with the BOA rep. Later the manager said that the price that I claimed to have been quoted must be from a different model. I whipped out the internet quote that detailed everything and he looked like someone kicked him in the groin. He sheepishly walked back to his office defeated because he knew that I wasn't the typical sucker. That probably doesn't happen very often.

It was funny because the manager was extremely confrontational and agitated but after the sale they kept telling me how important a perfect review is for the dealership when I am contacted. It really is some strange and baffling battle - buying a car. It still feels good to this day.
Wow, this story has made my day, thanks!
Hope you enjoyed giving them their review. You're awesome

Tell them that you appreciate their effort in making sure their customers are financially sound and not terrorists. Likewise you're going to need to see the books for the dealership and credit reports from the management team, because you want to make sure they are not a front for a terrorist organization

Very interesting. I recall back in the day when car dealers ran credit checks but most customers were totally unaware of such. I went to test drive a vehicle and I was obligated to show my driver's license (understandable). However, the dealer ran my credit WITHOUT informing me nor getting my consent. Also, the salesperson get extremely upset that I would not consider dealer financing (makes me think that salespeople have quotas not only for sales but for financing as well)

You see, the dealer (and salesperson) can [do] make money off selling their own financing ("we can do better than the financing that you are currently receiving" of course ignoring added fees that exist in the dealer's financing and the probability that the dealer financed company is less willing to forgive a missed payment compared to a credit union --thus jacking interest to the max for violation of terms). I suggest OP pull his credit report and see if the dealer pulled his credit without consent. [OP if you are a grifter you could benefit from that]

stat9 said:   This was the first hurdle of my car buying battle years ago. I refused to let them run a credit check because I had financing lined up. The manager looked like he wanted to fight me during this ordeal. I couldn't believe the rage towards someone that wanted to spend a ton of money on his product. I called my BOA financing and they said I don't need to have my credit checked. The manager loudly argued with the BOA rep. Later the manager said that the price that I claimed to have been quoted must be from a different model. I whipped out the internet quote that detailed everything and he looked like someone kicked him in the groin. He sheepishly walked back to his office defeated because he knew that I wasn't the typical sucker. That probably doesn't happen very often.

It was funny because the manager was extremely confrontational and agitated but after the sale they kept telling me how important a perfect review is for the dealership when I am contacted. It really is some strange and baffling battle - buying a car. It still feels good to this day.

Thanks for all the replies. I still have no idea if it is required or not, as essentially every dealer I ask says they need to run it. I even try to pitch it "I will come here if you don't do that, and they say they do it."

And yes, one big reason I do not want it ran is because I'm scarred they will run it with MULTIPLE banks. Honestly I got 2.89 and it's a third car loan, so I don't expect to get anything better, and I don't need anything better.

dirtrat said:   Why do you care if they run your credit? If you finance online they will also run your credit. When making a car purchase, multiple credit pulls within a couple week period won't impact your score. EVERY new car purchase I have ever made, they have done this. My theory is they don't want to waste their time on someone with poor/no credit, no test drive for someone with bad credit and most dealerships have arrangements with financial institutions and want to try and finance you regardless of your prior financing arangements. Just tell them your preapproved interest rate and the worst case is they will not be able to beat it.


In theory, yes, several pulls of one kind calculated as one. But in real world, many lender freaks out with the number of credit pulls no matter if it's considered as one or not.

And also, at least my local dealers and the banks they deal with don't always mark the purpose of credit pull as auto financing. Only few marks it as auto financing, while others mark it as something else. I saw general purpose and personal loan. So, you now have three pulls for auto financing that count three pulls.

It's from my experience last year. I brought my own financing, but the dealer recklessly wanted to beat it, and pulled five pulls: one from manufacturer financing arm (Infiniti Financing Service), one from dealer's own (Probably this one is mandatory, but not sure), three from banks (TD Bank, BoA, Chase). I complained it, and of course, the dealer didn't care.

stat9 said:    It really is some strange and baffling battle - buying a car. It still feels good to this day.

I look forward to the day when the dealership cartels are busted and I can just order the exact spec Toyota (or whatever) I want online, direct from Toyota, pay with a credit card, and have it delivered to me on a flatbed. It doesn't even need to be Amazon Primed.

Give them permission to run the OFAC check, but say they do not have permissible purpose to pull your credit report. They will probably make you sign something, so amend it to exclude the credit report and get a copy. If they do pull, dispute with your evidence.

Dealers just bundle the OFAC check with their financing pull, and usually don't care enough to give a different option.

Rewdog said:   Give them permission to run the OFAC check, but say they do not have permissible purpose to pull your credit report. They will probably make you sign something, so amend it to exclude the credit report and get a copy. If they do pull, dispute with your evidence.

Dealers just bundle the OFAC check with their financing pull, and usually don't care enough to give a different option.


Thanks! I finally got one General manager to effectively agree to the above more or less, if his sales/finance people listen to me.

So the OFAC check is unrelated to credit right? That doesn't show on your credit right? Will they still need SSN for that probably though?

At least with this email from the GM I might have a case now too saying they won't have to do it. Fingers crossed. Not a single other dealer agreed.

IMO, you're missing a couple things. If I were in your shoes and I had the option between Joe's Cars and Mark's Cars where Joe runs everybody's credit and Mark doesn't, but Mark will give me the same car $500 cheaper, I would be going to his dealership. I would find who gives you the best price and shop there, a miniscule drop on your credit is well worth the savings.

As a side note, most decent sized dealers will run your credit app through RouteOne or Dealertrack and will automatically send your application to all of the lenders that they think are likely to be competitive. This can be 10+ (I've seen one person get hit by 22 credit pulls while car shopping).

I would take the other suggestions offered to see if you can get a better deal by financing through the dealership at worse terms, then just re-fi out to your 2.89% and laugh at the commission being clawed back from the dealership

Source: I used to work in auto lending (and am so glad I now don't)

there was dealer that told me to fill out the 5 liner credit app just to title the vehicle. many dealers say the same thing. I put my name, address, and telephone number. I crossed out everything else and wrote at the top -- no credit check. the director of sales did not like that at all and said it had to be done over. he claimed that SSN was required to title the vehicle. I had already asked an attorney if there were any federal or state laws requiring SSN and he said no. he also said that some dealerships may have a business policy requiring but there is nothing in law. I left the dealership and the sales director was snippy. he said can you buy a car from your attorney?

I called the DMV in TX the on Monday morning only to find out that no SSN was required to title a vehicle. a copy of your DL and insurance is required. They advised me to find another dealership if they were stating SSN was required to title the car. the dealer chased after me the next couple of days and would not admit they had lied to me. I just responded that integrity is key for me on doing a deal. they had planned to run an unauthorized credit check. I didn't purchase from them.

I called another dealer and explained how I had been treated. I talked with 4-5 folks including finance dept before I showed up to buy the car. I confirmed the car availability, colors, options, and price before driving there. The transaction went smooth. The new dealership understood I wanted to buy a car and I wasn't there to play games or finance a car. I was done with the finance dept in 10 mins. they did an OFAC check but SSN was not required. they didn't try to sell me extended warranties or anything else -- it was easy. so that has taught me that I prefer to purchase cars from companies that understand their customers and do not try to dictate how things will be for their own advantage. I won't purchase anything from companies that treat me the way the first dealership did (attitude and lies).

mac911 said:   Thanks for all the replies. I still have no idea if it is required or not, as essentially every dealer I ask says they need to run it. I even try to pitch it "I will come here if you don't do that, and they say they do it."

And yes, one big reason I do not want it ran is because I'm scarred they will run it with MULTIPLE banks. Honestly I got 2.89 and it's a third car loan, so I don't expect to get anything better, and I don't need anything better.


If the above is true, you are wasting everyone's time on here. Why did you even ask if you want to believe the dealers? Just another troll?

Many years ago, we had financing and we "needed" a minivan (just had our third child... glad we are not in a minivan anymore). We walked in and I was immediately aggravated because I walked into a specific dealership because I wanted that kind of vehicle... they had only a cargo version of there van... but they had one, and only one, passenger minivan and it was a different brand (not of the same car company). I was ready to walk, but my wife wanted to drive it and we ultimately bought it. First lesson, if you have a significant other that falls for all their schemes, shop alone.

Well, they pulled our credit without our consent. I was considering going to war over it... I am not sure what finally caused me to give up on that.

The backroom person that handled all of the paper work was a real jack*** to me the entire time and as we were finishing up she made a snarky comment about not financing with them.

Note to folks that work at these places: yeah, that is how your overall profit and compensation are setup... you sell the car and the financing. However, some folks don't want your financing... are you willing to lose a sale because you only get some of your profit? Don't be stupid about it and don't treat your customers like crap... I think that Dante missed a circle of Hell for sleazy car dealership employees and owners.

By the way, what sort of response is warranted for them pulling your credit without your permission?

Dus10 said:   
The backroom person that handled all of the paper work was a real jack*** to me the entire time and as we were finishing up she made a snarky comment about not financing with them.


Finance and insurance manager?
I've had to deal with a few of them before I quit buying from dealers.
I didn't like two of them.
I actively despised all the others.
If I were to buy from a dealership today, I'd tell the internet/fleet sales manager that I would only deal with him and the cashier. I have no desire to make the acquaintance of any more F&I managers.


By the way, what sort of response is warranted for them pulling your credit without your permission?


They don't need permission, just a permissible purpose.
If they pull without PP or express permission, a federal suit is the warranted response.

dishdude said:   KYBOSH said:   Dealers make a boatload of $$$ when you finance through them.

If the finance manager was any kind of savy, he would have asked you what your rate was and offered to BEAT IT if you financed through one of their lenders.
I have heard/read of this happening a lot.


I have had this happen. I went in with my own financing, they told me in advance that if my credit was above a certain score, they could probably beat it and did.


Watch out! Years ago, a friend got suckered into a dealer loan, turned out not to be manufacturer loan, and had strings attached in the fine print. He didn't discover until he wanted to pay off early, and there were large minimum interest fees. His mistake for not reading and understanding the fine print, but just be aware these traps are out there.

FWIW, I had same trouble with pre approved bank loan that was sent to me as a check. Dealer insisted on running a credit check and I refused. One excuse after another, finally came down to dealer afraid the check was no good, so I told him to keep the car until the check cleared, which he said could take a week, but he started calling me after 2 days to come pick up the car. As it turns out, I had nowhere to park the new car yet (didn't want to just park it on the street, deal with street cleaning, etc.), so needed a few more days to find somewhere to park it, so actually worked out for the better.

redaces said:   I have friends that work in the car dealership. They want to run your credit so they can try and give you a better rate. They make money off of the banks when they can get you the loan.

BullShit!!!!!!!!! They want to make more $$$$ off you, they could care less about the true costs to you. Don't give the scum any more credit than they deserve.

Skipping 35 Messages...
We needed something different and it's been awhile since I have car shopped. Following this thread, I was a little worried about what would happen this past week. Out of the six dealerships we test drove vehicles, only two actually asked for ID of any kind before tossing us the keys. I was really surprised that four never even asked to see our drivers licenses. None ran credit checks, although I stressed early on that I would pay cash.



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