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We are in the process of purchasing some real estate and I have been asked by the lender to provide my title company contact. I am a newbie in the title insurance space so started doing some research, here is what I have found -

Purchase Price - $350,000, loan amount $280,000
Local Title Company - $2,150 + other fees (I will post the HUD1 from the local company as soon as I have it.)

Entitle -
Your Title Insurance Premium with Reissue Discount, Owners Policy $1,399
Closing Protection Letter: $75
Tax Certification Fee: $75
Outside Notary Fee: $225
Courier/Processing: $35

I am in PA and have found that there are set rates for title insurance. Link to rates here The $2,150 matches the purchase price above.

I came across some other FW threads debating title insurance and this one specifically on entitle, shows positive feedback but how are they able to make money by being ~$750 less. FW Thread on Entitle

I know recording fees is not included above, but those should be standard with the county. Appreciate any insight.

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I am the owner of a large independent title company in the Mid-Atlantic region. I have a lot of respect for EntitleDire... (more)

titleguy (Jul. 18, 2013 @ 8:53a) |

Your sentence above suggests that local title companies provide attorneys for buyers. When I did a property transaction... (more)

NEDeals (Jul. 19, 2013 @ 7:46a) |

After getting a quote from Entitle, I have been communicating back and forth with them and found out that they do not pr... (more)

tajar96 (Jul. 21, 2013 @ 10:50a) |

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The reissue discount is generally only applicable to refinance. Don't think it applies to purchase.

I tried on their website again and I get the same quote. This time I was double and triple checked that I selected "buying"

Title Insurance Premium from Major Competitors: $2,150
Your Title Insurance Premium from ENTITLE DIRECT: $1,399
Your Title Insurance Savings:
Call Us Now at 1-877-636-8485 to Start Saving with ENTITLE DIRECT
You may be eligible to save up to an additional $0! Click to learn more $751
Title Insurance Premium from ENTITLE DIRECT: $1,399
Closing Protection Letter: $75
Tax Certification Fee: $75
Outside Notary Fee: $225
Courier/Processing: $35

I got the reissue rate for a purchase. It was available based on how recent the seller's last mortgage was and what their mortgage amount was.

To answer the OP's question, one reason for Entitle's lower price is that they do not pay a commission. Most Title Insurance is littered with kickbacks/fees/etc that get paid to the settlement company.

NEDeals said:   I got the reissue rate for a purchase. It was available based on how recent the seller's last mortgage was and what their mortgage amount was.

To answer the OP's question, one reason for Entitle's lower price is that they do not pay a commission. Most Title Insurance is littered with kickbacks/fees/etc that get paid to the settlement company.


Notary Fee = $225?
I gotta get me a notary stamp and profit!

It is cheaper because they don't pay the closing agent an insane commission. The fees are fixed by the state where I live and 750+ goes to the agent and the actual policy as less than 300 bucks. It is such a rip.

evilspammer said:   It is cheaper because they don't pay the closing agent an insane commission. The fees are fixed by the state where I live and 750+ goes to the agent and the actual policy as less than 300 bucks. It is such a rip.

I guess it might work in other states that are title company states instead of attorney states. I'm in an attorney state and had a client who wanted to use them so when I ran it past the attorney, the feedback I got was that they weren't a big nationally known company and while it may be cheaper, one concern was whether the company will still be around in 20-30 years when you might actually need the title insurance. The other reason was that because it was an attorney state, you'd have to hire an attorney separately and once you add in the additional attorney fee, it was going to be the same or more than what the attorney quoted. They do break down what the attorney gets as a commission and what the title company gets and I seem to recall it about 2/3 or 3/4 of the title premium went to the attorney and the rest went to title insurance. The only benefit there is that the attorneys typically charge less to do the closing and typically don't charge to do the P&S when they know they're getting the title insurance money. Now you try to bring in outside title, then you get an additional bill for the P&S so you end up not really saving any money. That's an attorney state, not sure how the numbers break out in a title company state.

henry33 said:   

I guess it might work in other states that are title company states instead of attorney states. I'm in an attorney state and had a client who wanted to use them so when I ran it past the attorney, the feedback I got was that they weren't a big nationally known company and while it may be cheaper, one concern was whether the company will still be around in 20-30 years when you might actually need the title insurance. The other reason was that because it was an attorney state, you'd have to hire an attorney separately and once you add in the additional attorney fee, it was going to be the same or more than what the attorney quoted. They do break down what the attorney gets as a commission and what the title company gets and I seem to recall it about 2/3 or 3/4 of the title premium went to the attorney and the rest went to title insurance. The only benefit there is that the attorneys typically charge less to do the closing and typically don't charge to do the P&S when they know they're getting the title insurance money. Now you try to bring in outside title, then you get an additional bill for the P&S so you end up not really saving any money. That's an attorney state, not sure how the numbers break out in a title company state.


By "attorney state," I am assuming you mean states that require a licensed attorney to be present for the real estate closing. I purchased real estate in an "attorney state" and used Entitle Direct. It was a great experience. The nonsense that you heard from the attorney above is 100% FUD (fear, uncertainly, doubt) intended to scare off your client from using a company that does not pay a commission to that attorney (and thereby inflating your client's expenses just for the benefit of that attorney).

I'm not partial to Entitle Direct per se, but if that attorney has a legitimate reason why not to use a certain company XYZ for anything, he or she should have the fortitude to explain EXACTLY what the concerns are SPECIFIC to that company. Entitle Direct, as an example, has been in business in 1978. Did this attorney provide any information (i.e. FACTS) or financial disclosures that suggest they are not a reputable company or will not be in business? Did he provide any evidence that they are less likely to be around than the attorney's chosen title insurance company? Entitle is not "Nationally Known?" They may not have the brand recognition of Coca Cola, but they certainly are well known within their sector.

I would run (RUN!!) away from this attorney as he is putting his own personal/financial self-interest and concerns above the customer. Customers have the RIGHT to choose their title insurance company, that is federal law. What a shame that this attorney is scaring off his own customers from using a company because he doesn't get the same commission.

See if you can use your own notary (usually free or $10-20) rather than their $225 notary . Some lenders have let me take the docs and get them notarized myself , other lenders have required their overpriced notary to keep possession of the docs

Thanks for the feedback so far. The company recommended by my attorney is too far away and he did not have any more options. I got the local company contact from a realtor I have used in the past. In this deal I did not use this realtor so there is no vested interest there. I came across entitle because I kept hearing that PA has set insurance rates. Google power led me to finding this lower rate from Entitle.

The local company did give me some fees over the phone, but I do not have an official HUD from them. Even if their fees are somewhat cheaper from Entitle, the title insurance is the biggest piece and Entitle has $750 less in that.

ask title insurance company who the underwriter of the insurance is. If it's a major national company, I doubt you'll have any problems. I'm surprised the attorney didn't ask that. I would ask that of any title company....because the underwriter is the one that actually pays if there is a problem and title co. is at fault.

Good point. Will send email to the local agent today.

In VA you can charge a maximum of $5 for notary services. $225 is absurd.

For one of my purchases I went to my local bank (BoA) and got everything notarized for free. I took out the pages that required notarization and they gladly did 15+ pages of notary. That was a cash purchase so fewer documents needed notary.

scott240sx said:   In VA you can charge a maximum of $5 for notary services. $225 is absurd.

To be fair, that is probably $5 per notarized signature. I don't know how many docs there are at a closing, but I could image with two old owners and two new owners, mortgages, title insurance, deeds, etc. that there could be a couple dozen signatures to notarize.

ETA: That's still not $225, which would be 45 signatures at $5 each.

The notary cost probably include the cost of the mobile closer as well

rufruf44 said:   The notary cost probably include the cost of the mobile closer as well

That is a good possibility. I'd still see if I could use my own notary. My bank notarizes documents for free as long as you have an account.

So how does notary work at closing ? I thought the notary had to present at closing (most likely closing agent is a notary) If I can get the notary done myself, I can definitely save cost regardless of which option I choose. I assume Entitle is higher for notary because of trying to sub contract the notary.

tajar96 said:   So how does notary work at closing ? I thought the notary had to present at closing (most likely closing agent is a notary) If I can get the notary done myself, I can definitely save cost regardless of which option I choose. I assume Entitle is higher for notary because of trying to sub contract the notary.

A notary witnesses a signature, or in this case, maybe the signatures of all the buyers and sellers. If they want to keep their stamp, they will only notarize a signature if they actually watched the signing. So if you must sign papers at the closing, the notary has to be there too.

I am the owner of an independent title company in Washington DC area. Entitle will definitely save you some money and you are smart to shop for and select your own title company. However, there are some very good reasons to use a local title company (albeit a bit more expensive). First, unlike a random notary hired by Entitle Direct, a local title company will have an attorney or licensed settlement agent conduct your closing. That individual will be familiar with local customs, your sales contract, and possess the skills necessary to mediate any disputes between you and the seller at the closing table. Further, a local title company will be more likely to properly record your deed and mortgage promptly and release the seller's mortgage lien from your property. Here's a tip: If you ask the local title company to waive all or a portion of their settlement fee, they will likely do so in the face of losing business to EntitleDirect. Finally, because a local title company must answer to the local community (i.e., real estate agents and mortgage lenders as referral sources), they will be much more responsive should post-closing issues arise.

titleguy said:   I am the owner of an independent title company in Washington DC area. Entitle will definitely save you some money and you are smart to shop for and select your own title company. However, there are some very good reasons to use a local title company (albeit a bit more expensive). First, unlike a random notary hired by Entitle Direct, a local title company will have an attorney or licensed settlement agent conduct your closing. That individual will be familiar with local customs, your sales contract, and possess the skills necessary to mediate any disputes between you and the seller at the closing table. Further, a local title company will be more likely to properly record your deed and mortgage promptly and release the seller's mortgage lien from your property. Here's a tip: If you ask the local title company to waive all or a portion of their settlement fee, they will likely do so in the face of losing business to EntitleDirect. Finally, because a local title company must answer to the local community (i.e., real estate agents and mortgage lenders as referral sources), they will be much more responsive should post-closing issues arise.

I'm not promoting EntitleDirect, but I did use them and can share what happened as a customer. My experience was they hired a competent local attorney who came to the location of my choosing. The deed recording was not rocket science (just standardized forms) and it was recorded just fine. I was able to view the deed and related documents at the deed registry's website within a day or two. One thing I liked about them was they put a lot of information online, including status updates and a "control panel" which was a service I hadn't received from other settlement companies. Many of the documents were electronically signed at closing, which sped up the process and saved a lot of paper (one paper copy was retained for my records). They do have discounts for future transactions so you can save off an already lower price if you need to refinance.

I am a TIPIC (Title Insurance Producer Independent Contractor) in Maryland and I work with Entitle and well as many Title companies in DC, MD, VA and I have to say that the customer service is better most of the time dealing with the locals... especially with post-closing issues.

I am the owner of a large independent title company in the Mid-Atlantic region. I have a lot of respect for EntitleDirect's business model since I'm a proponent of introducing more consumer choice to our marketplace. Therefore, I will try to be as fair as possible in this response.

Using EntitleDirect will certainly save you some upfront costs since their title insurance rates exclude the 70% +/-that is typically paid by an underwriter to a local title attorney acting as their agent. Let me first explain, by providing a few reasons, why a local title attorney under the agency model receives such a high commission.
1) Time - A typical purchase transaction requires an average of 2 hours for ordering and reviewing the title and survey (if applicable)
2) Expertise in Local Laws - Possessing the knowledge and know-how to clear title issues prior to closing (i.e., unreleased mortgages/liens, gaining proper signature authority from sellers of entities/estates/trusts, and proper compliance with local recording requirements and affidavit filings
3) Expertise in Local Customs - Understanding local/regional sales contract requirements in relation to title matters
4) Shared Liability for Errors and Omissions - Responsible for failures or defects of title caused by negligent title examination/review

A local title company/attorney must be accountable to and answer to its/his community for the purpose of future business referrals. This means that they will take more care in being responsive to the real estate agent, homebuyer, and lender when it comes to post-closing issues. For example, my office frequently discovers failed recordings and unreleased mortgages/liens among the local land records that were the responsibility of non-local "national" title companies causing hardship to the property owners. In many cases, when my office or the property owner requests the required remedial action from these non-local title companies, we either get no response or a very delayed response. That's because they don't have the local market pressure to take immediate action.

Unlike a local title company/attorney, EntitleDirect does not employ a local attorney to manage and conduct your closing; hence, the cost savings to you as the consumer. If you are risk-averse enough to forego the expertise of a local attorney, then you might also think about waiving owner's title insurance coverage.

Finally, should you have conflicts or issues with your seller at the settlement table (remember this is why it's called "settlement"), which of these individuals do you think would be more qualified to mediate the matter? A notary hired by EntitleDirect or a local attorney?

titleguy said:   I am the owner of a large independent title company in the Mid-Atlantic region. I have a lot of respect for EntitleDirect's business model since I'm a proponent of introducing more consumer choice to our marketplace. Therefore, I will try to be as fair as possible in this response.

Using EntitleDirect will certainly save you some upfront costs since their title insurance rates exclude the 70% +/-that is typically paid by an underwriter to a local title attorney acting as their agent. Let me first explain, by providing a few reasons, why a local title attorney under the agency model receives such a high commission.
1) Time - A typical purchase transaction requires an average of 2 hours for ordering and reviewing the title and survey (if applicable)
2) Expertise in Local Laws - Possessing the knowledge and know-how to clear title issues prior to closing (i.e., unreleased mortgages/liens, gaining proper signature authority from sellers of entities/estates/trusts, and proper compliance with local recording requirements and affidavit filings
3) Expertise in Local Customs - Understanding local/regional sales contract requirements in relation to title matters
4) Shared Liability for Errors and Omissions - Responsible for failures or defects of title caused by negligent title examination/review

A local title company/attorney must be accountable to and answer to its/his community for the purpose of future business referrals. This means that they will take more care in being responsive to the real estate agent, homebuyer, and lender when it comes to post-closing issues. For example, my office frequently discovers failed recordings and unreleased mortgages/liens among the local land records that were the responsibility of non-local "national" title companies causing hardship to the property owners. In many cases, when my office or the property owner requests the required remedial action from these non-local title companies, we either get no response or a very delayed response. That's because they don't have the local market pressure to take immediate action.

You forgot to point out all the times the local title companies fail to record things properly.

Unlike a local title company/attorney, EntitleDirect does not employ a local attorney to manage and conduct your closing; hence, the cost savings to you as the consumer. If you are risk-averse enough to forego the expertise of a local attorney, then you might also think about waiving owner's title insurance coverage.


You clearly missed my experience above. EntitleDirect certainly DID employ a local attorney to manage and conduct my closing, since attorneys do need to be licensed in the state that they practice. The attorney that handled my closing was based less than 10 miles away and came to the location of my choosing.

Finally, should you have conflicts or issues with your seller at the settlement table (remember this is why it's called "settlement")

That's a local term. In many areas of the USA, it is called "closing."

which of these individuals do you think would be more qualified to mediate the matter? A notary hired by EntitleDirect or a local attorney?

Your sentence above suggests that local title companies provide attorneys for buyers. When I did a property transaction WITHOUT entitle direct, the local title company did NOT have a local attorney present, nor would I expect their attorney to protect ME, even if there was one. I would suggest decoupling legal services from simple title companies and consider hiring your own attorney if you want an attorney to act on YOUR behalf.

After getting a quote from Entitle, I have been communicating back and forth with them and found out that they do not provide title insurance for commercial properties. The rate they had quoted me was for residential.



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