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I've been hit several times. Buying stuff from eBay... the listing says New York USA. Paypaled the seller via CC. CC company charges me 3% for foreign transaction fees.

There's nowhere in the process of buying/paying, that eBay/paypal indicated the payee is non-US based.

Does this deserve a class action against eBay/Paypal?

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VeryBadENGINEER said:   Does this deserve a class action against eBay/Paypal?
It deserves a complaint to eBay about deception perpetrated by the Seller account

Don't you designate in Paypal that you are paying in US Dollars? SHouldn't the seller be the one that's paying the FTF through Paypal?

In the past you could pay with a Credit Card that didn't have a foreign transaction fee. The charge would be billed in the denomination of the sellers account and converted by Visa/MasterCard/Amex which seemed to have better exchange rates than PayPal anyways.

the charge is not from paypal.. it's from the credit card.
I don't know how this works, if paypal processes the credit card transaction, it should be US transaction. But apparently if the payee is registered as non-us user, the transaction will be a foreign transaction through paypal.

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/About-Payments-Archive/Citi-...

To answer your question, PayPal does have to report where PayPal payments are being sent to. This information is provided to the card processor. Most card issuers only charge a foreign transaction fee when you are physically using your card in another country. In recent years some card issuers choose to apply this fee to internet based payments going to other countries as well. I don't know if that is something your bank did correctly based on their policies. Perhaps another community member might know.

You can report your issue to Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Money transfer transactions fall under CFPB's regulatory authority even when they are processed by non-bank entities such as Paypal or Western Union.

The only person wrong here is the seller.

In recent years some card issuers choose to apply this fee to internet based payments going to other countries as well.
I think I saw this happen myself - I was using one card to replenish Skype credits and one day decided to use a Citi card. Citi charged a foreign transaction fee - for the very same transaction in USD that other issuer (don't recall now, but likely Chase) didn't consider foreign. Skype has a murky European heritage so it was a bit curious that Citi did this.

Same happened for me when I paid for Diptrace using Plimus
my Bank of America debit card added another $10.35 (3%) the day after,
though Plimus already toke their fees (to seller) to use a credit card

-10.35 CHECKCARD 0204 PLI*NOVARM LTD Plimus,Inc

Bank's policy at least is stated somewhere. You should know if your card charges FTF or not.
I can avoid FTF by using a different card if I know the payment is sent to a non US person.

I think eBay has to make sure that information is available to the potential buyers in a particular country. Seller probably just selects the countries they're willing to ship to while listing.

The item may ship from a location in the US but the seller (or their paypal account to be exact) is based out of another country.

Alcibiades said:   VeryBadENGINEER said:   Does this deserve a class action against eBay/Paypal?
It deserves a complaint to eBay about deception perpetrated by the Seller account


Last few times when I made a purchase from eBay/Paypal, there were a message on the check out page about possible for foreign transaction fees from credit cards and that I should use bank to make payment when the item/seller location was outside USA.
So it is the deceptive ebayer selling listing seller/item location as US when seller/item is shipping from out of US.

Sorry for stating the obvious, but just use a card with 0 FTF - there is a plenty of them available from different issuers. It used to be differently even not a long ago, but there's a clear trend of waiving FTFs on more and more cards nowadays - Chase United Explorer is, probably, the most recent example.
I personally think that the whole FTF idea is a ripoff and never use ANY cards with FTF abroad just not to support such a practice among the banks.

BofA Travel Rewards might be an excellent choice, BTW.

Capital One credit card has no foreign transaction fees. An excellent card to use when buying or traveling overseas.

ilya2012 said:   Sorry for stating the obvious, but just use a card with 0 FTF - there is a plenty of them available from different issuers. It used to be differently even not a long ago, but there's a clear trend of waiving FTFs on more and more cards nowadays - Chase United Explorer is, probably, the most recent example.
I personally think that the whole FTF idea is a ripoff and never use ANY cards with FTF abroad just not to support such a practice among the banks.

BofA Travel Rewards might be an excellent choice, BTW.


They are saying that there is no indication that the seller is not from the United States, so you would have no reason to suspect that you would get charged a fee. Of course you could always use a card with no fee, but you shouldn't have to guess about these things.

Weird paypal has warned me about it and suggests that I use a bank transfer to fund my paypal rather than get those fees. Though This has only been on online retailers (like DealExtreme) not through eBay.

nm...

I wrote a response based on eBay rules. You have a drop-shipper and it will probably be more effective to deal with him through Paypal rather than through eBay. eBay doesn't like drop shippers, but I don't think they actually forbid them. Paypal does forbid them... (see below).

Drop shipping involves transactions where the retailer does not keep goods in stock, but instead transfers customer orders and shipment details to either the manufacturer or a wholesaler, who then ships the goods directly to the customer.

It looks like you've got a drop-shipper. The item is in New York, but the seller is located elsewhere in the world, and his Paypal account is based out of the country where he lives. Drop-shipping is not permitted by Paypal because the seller doesn't have the item in his possession and is not in control of shipping times. Often items end up back-ordered too. So Paypal could theoretically suspend your seller's account if you report him.

This is from Paypal's acceptable use policy. You can report the seller under the section I highlighted: https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_I...



Prohibited Activities

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

1. violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation.

2. relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (d) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods (e) items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime, (f) items that are considered obscene, (g) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (h) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (i) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (j) ,certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.

3. relate to transactions that (a) show the personal information of third parties in violation of applicable law, (b) support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other "get rich quick" schemes or certain multi-level marketing programs, (c) are associated with purchases of annuities or lottery contracts, lay-away systems, off-shore banking or transactions to finance or refinance debts funded by a credit card, (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item,(e) are by payment processors to collect payments on behalf of merchants, (f), are associated with the sale of traveler's checks or money orders, (h) involve currency exchanges or check cashing businesses, or (i) involve certain credit repair, debt settlement services, credit transactions or insurance activities.

4.involve the sales of products or services identified by government agencies to have a high likelihood of being fraudulent.

5.violate applicable laws or industry regulations regarding the sale of (a) tobacco products, or (b) prescription drugs and devices.

6. involve gambling, gaming and/or any other activity with an entry fee and a prize, including, but not limited to casino games, sports betting, horse or greyhound racing, lottery tickets, other ventures that facilitate gambling, games of skill (whether or not it is legally defined as a lottery) and sweepstakes unless the operator has obtained prior approval from PayPal and the operator and customers are located exclusively in jurisdictions where such activities are permitted by law.

I think its worth being said that it may warrant getting the seller in trouble over this.
If they did their part (good service, item delivered on time and shipped from specified location, item is good) then the overall transaction was positive.
Which country their bank account is based out of may have absolutely nothing to do with where they are and where they are operating.

Im not sure but I believe you can tell that the paypal payment will deal with foreign currency before you click the submit button.



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