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Agreed. Seems there are stronger penalties for telemarketers than companies that trespass on private property.

If its "Just holes due to the removal of the stations" what happens if I dont fill them in properly and trip over one and break my leg or arm? Can I sue the company for that?
Yes, its Just holes that were previously filled with the sentricon stations, but its still work for me to do in order to prevent somebody or something from becoming injured - and to make it more aesthetically appealing. Something I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DO!

Still no call back from the Sheriffs Office (2 hours later)...

This sounds like an interesting law school question: Do termite bait stations become fixtures when installed in the ground on real property? If so, how would a security interest in that fixture be properly perfected? If the security interest is not perfected, would the bait stations then convey and become the property of the purchaser?

Any law students out there want to take a crack at this? My expertise is criminal law.

DjScibbity said:   Called Arrow just to find out how much it costs to install the system. Was given a range without seeing the house, but it seems that ~$800 to install would be a close estimate. These guys only come out once per year to check on the stations too. Everything that I read says they should be monitored at least 4 times per year, so they are skimping big time here. What a joke of a company...

Im really wanting to call them and ask why they came onto my property and stole property that is on my land. Is there any harm in doing so? I doubt it will yield much, but Id really like to yell at somebody for this. If it affects future court case though, I will refrain from doing so.

Im doubting the police are going to do much either. Would you REALLY call the police in such a situation? Im thinking the certified letter (and maybe a phone call first) seems like the most reasonable course of action. That will also likely not yield results and will probably end up in small claims court (which could be fun and educational).


Sounds reasonable. A 20 piece system goes for $250 here:

http://www.epestsupply.com/product/263978/Hex-Pro-Termite-Bait-System/

Tack on the usual markup, some over-priced labor, and I'd see them charging $800. However, how hard can it be? Dig a tiny hole, insert the tube, done.

You know what OP, do you still want this kind of termite system at your property? If so, I'd say just go buy a new set (like the $250 link above), and re-use the holes. It's the fastest and cheapest way to solve your main problems. 1) You get termite protection back. 2) It fills the holes. Bonus: You don't have to dig new holes yourself! And then after that you can bitch at people, and maybe file a small claims case, and see if you can get a few hundred out of it. Otherwise, it solves your current headache for only $250. And you can move on with your life.

CowbellMaster said:   Agreed. Seems there are stronger penalties for telemarketers than companies that trespass on private property.

Tell that to the telemarketers that keep calling me even when I'm on the DoNotCall list. .Gov didn't give a cahoots about them.

I will be filing a police report Monday. Sheriffs office just contacted me and is emailing me information to fill out. He said it would be processed Monday. I will do it, but not sure my approach after that.
I have to consider my time, but I do value principle very much. Thanks for all the advice, cynicism, laughs, etc

Ill keep y'all posted.

As a GA homeowner, I would be pissed if this happened to me. I did look at the Arrow website and there is a section that talks about transferrance: http://www.arrowexterminators.com/termite-control/the-arrow-solu...

================================
C&P

 
Lifetime agreement. 
 As long as you elect to renew your ongoing protection agreement each year, Arrow Exterminators will provide your termite protection exactly as stipulated in your contract.*
 
If you sell, your Arrow Exterminators guarantee becomes a bonus feature. 
 Arrow Exterminators will be happy to transfer your guarantee to the new homeowner with no transfer fee. So continuous protection is assured at no additional cost to the buyer. That's something else you can feel good about.
 

*See service agreement for complete details.

================================

First reference transferring the 'guarantee' to the new owner with no transfer fee. This fairly concretely indicates there is no automatic transfer included in their contracts.

Second, the 'If you sell..' statement implies the system and the guarantee are a feature of the home and transfer at no cost which would imply the OP received ownership of the system when sold.

IANAL, and this is of course not a useful as the original contract but those statements on their own website are powerful implications in the OPs favor.

CowbellMaster said:   
My RE sale docs don't specifically say anything about my sump pump, or my garage door opener, or my chandelier. If someone were to send me a letter saying I owe them any of these things, guess what silty substance I would tell them to pound?


What would you do if Culligan sent you an invitation to renew your water softener service plan, followed by an invoice for $350, and then dropped by to repossess your water softener a couple of months later (more than a year after you took possession of the house and all appliances)?

Likely the company did not know that there was a new owner and just thought they were collecting their equipment after the service contract was terminated. They generally don't call to schedule the quarterly (or whatever) monitoring, so they probably just treated it like that and didn't consider it trespassing. Shady company or not, I doubt they were intentionally trying to screw over OP - they probably just thought it was their customer still living there but not wanting to renew. As for the messy way they did it, yeah, I'd be mad too, my company comes and displaces all the pine straw around my stations every time they check, leaves a mess, I grumble every time and keep meaning to say something to them... some day I'll get around to it.

DjScibbity said:   If its "Just holes due to the removal of the stations" what happens if I dont fill them in properly and trip over one and break my leg or arm? Can I sue the company for that?
Yes, its Just holes that were previously filled with the sentricon stations, but its still work for me to do in order to prevent somebody or something from becoming injured - and to make it more aesthetically appealing. Something I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DO!

Still no call back from the Sheriffs Office (2 hours later)...

Are you sure your wife/kids/friend/dog hasn't tripped over the holes and had to see a chiropractor/vet/ER, assuming you have no/minimal co-pays?

Why don't you just call them and demand that they fix the holes rather than involve the police? You're calling the law on them without giving them a chance to make it right. Not to mention bad mouthing them on FW.

taxmantoo said:   CowbellMaster said:   
My RE sale docs don't specifically say anything about my sump pump, or my garage door opener, or my chandelier. If someone were to send me a letter saying I owe them any of these things, guess what silty substance I would tell them to pound?


What would you do if Culligan sent you an invitation to renew your water softener service plan, followed by an invoice for $350, and then dropped by to repossess your water softener a couple of months later (more than a year after you took possession of the house and all appliances)?


I think my previous replies in this thread leave little doubt what I would do.

It involves pounding.

Real attorney (not from your state, you mileage probably varies) checking in here.. some good points are raised, is this a trespass? a theft? what to do? Here is my advice (from a guy that makes a decent hourly rate to give advice) 1) When you get an unwarranted invoice, respond. 2) Buy some top soil 3) Get some sleep.

Do I understand why you are pissed? Ya, I do. I would be too.

Social media and sites like google or Yelp is what I would do. When a company treats me poorly, I make sure to leave a comment. You'd be surprised but I'm sure my comments will cost them at least 3x in business.

TravelerMSY said:   Why don't you just call them and demand that they fix the holes rather than involve the police? You're calling the law on them without giving them a chance to make it right. Not to mention bad mouthing them on FW.

First response to a criminal act is usually documentation by the authorities. I'd be willing to bet any company that has such little regard for a homeowner's property rights would respond in a predictable fashion to a request to make things right.

timx said:   Real attorney (not from your state, you mileage probably varies) checking in here.. some good points are raised, is this a trespass? a theft? what to do? Here is my advice (from a guy that makes a decent hourly rate to give advice) 1) When you get an unwarranted invoice, respond. 2) Buy some top soil 3) Get some sleep.

Do I understand why you are pissed? Ya, I do. I would be too.


Heh, you sound like my attorney friend....

woolooloo said:   Likely the company did not know that there was a new owner and just thought they were collecting their equipment after the service contract was terminated. They generally don't call to schedule the quarterly (or whatever) monitoring, so they probably just treated it like that and didn't consider it trespassing. Shady company or not, I doubt they were intentionally trying to screw over OP - they probably just thought it was their customer still living there but not wanting to renew. As for the messy way they did it, yeah, I'd be mad too, my company comes and displaces all the pine straw around my stations every time they check, leaves a mess, I grumble every time and keep meaning to say something to them... some day I'll get around to it.

Company knew as company was sending invoices to a new/different name. OP's name, a name they know they don't have any relationship with because OP disregarded invoices sent to him. OP was well within his rights to disregard it as he has no obligation to respond to anything he's sent.

Company skirted the law, they knew it, and they are banking on OP rolling over.

thestig7 said:   Social media and sites like google or Yelp is what I would do. When a company treats me poorly, I make sure to leave a comment. You'd be surprised but I'm sure my comments will cost them at least 3x in business.I can never remember, would that be Slander or Libel?

Connman said:   thestig7 said:   Social media and sites like google or Yelp is what I would do. When a company treats me poorly, I make sure to leave a comment. You'd be surprised but I'm sure my comments will cost them at least 3x in business.I can never remember, would that be Slander or Libel?

Which of those involves the truth?

Lappie said:   So, after I moved in, I began receiving invoices from Arrow Extermiantors (AE) for $350 to renew the annual contract and "Termite Warranty."

Were the invoices in your name or old owner. If yours, how did they get that information?


From the Real Estate closing -- the is most probably a termite provision as a part of the mortgage documents. OP needs to check all that paperwork.

Connman said:   thestig7 said:   Social media and sites like google or Yelp is what I would do. When a company treats me poorly, I make sure to leave a comment. You'd be surprised but I'm sure my comments will cost them at least 3x in business.I can never remember, would that be Slander or Libel?
I simply document my experience on the internet. So its neither.

Not sure if it helps or not, but all the talk about being buried and therefore an improvement or a fixture was irrelevant to me in VA. Not exactly the same scenario, but similar. I purchased a home here with an underground propane tank. There was no mention anywhere in any of my paperwork about it. All of the homes in my neighborhood have them also. None of the other second-hand buyers got prior notice either that I know of. The tank was installed by the propane company when the house was built and the contract was with the original owner (with a kickback to the builder I'm sure). I was harassed endlessly by the propane company after I purchased the home. They informed me it was illegal to refill the tank through anyone but them (and their rate was about 25-30% higher than other companies in the area). I couldn't believe that was true, so I called around. No other propane company would fill it, not one. I even told them to come and dig up the tank at their expense. I figured it was worth buying my own tank to save that much on propane over the life of the tank. I tried calling their bluff, even going so far as consulting a lawyer. The lawyer cited many cases that went in favor of the propane company. Here at least, you are pretty much screwed. And, yes, I'm still paying for premium propane.

Good luck to you. I went through the same exact situation with Terminix here in North Florida. Previous owner had a bond and Terminix started to pester me with invoices. I told them no thank you - but in my case, they LEFT the Sentricon devices in the ground. So I've been digging them up as I go along.

CowbellMaster said:   woolooloo said:   Likely the company did not know that there was a new owner and just thought they were collecting their equipment after the service contract was terminated. They generally don't call to schedule the quarterly (or whatever) monitoring, so they probably just treated it like that and didn't consider it trespassing. Shady company or not, I doubt they were intentionally trying to screw over OP - they probably just thought it was their customer still living there but not wanting to renew. As for the messy way they did it, yeah, I'd be mad too, my company comes and displaces all the pine straw around my stations every time they check, leaves a mess, I grumble every time and keep meaning to say something to them... some day I'll get around to it.

Company knew as company was sending invoices to a new/different name. OP's name, a name they know they don't have any relationship with because OP disregarded invoices sent to him. OP was well within his rights to disregard it as he has no obligation to respond to anything he's sent.

Company skirted the law, they knew it, and they are banking on OP rolling over.


This indeed is true. They knew I was the new owner of the house as this was discussed when I called after the first invoice.

I just took more photos of the holes left in the ground. I used a yard stick as reference on several of the deeper holes. There are holes everywhere (19 in fact). Deepest measures 12 inches deep (I can post pics later if necessary, but doubt it helps here). The guy attempted to cover many holes with pinestraw - yeah good idea. Its like a Vietnamese pungy stick trap...some holes were "hidden" but if someone/thing were to step there, theyd fall into a hole. No dirt was filled back in in most holes. To indicate just how shoddy of a job they did removing these, they actually MISSED one station (hence why he said he removed 19 instead of an even 20). The green sentricon station is still there...who knows when they will trespass again to collect this station. He probably wanted to get the heck outta there ASAP since he was trespassing...

cr3s said:   I don't understand why people think it's right for anyone to trespass w/o permission regardless of the level of damage. I guess the people that advised to buy some topsoil to cover the holes are the same types of people that think the NSA snooping on your e-mail and cellphones w/o warrants are doing the right thing...

The meter man trespasses into my yard every month to check the meter without permission... Maybe I should go sue him for that.

Deleted.

deucebigalow said:   cr3s said:   I don't understand why people think it's right for anyone to trespass w/o permission regardless of the level of damage. I guess the people that advised to buy some topsoil to cover the holes are the same types of people that think the NSA snooping on your e-mail and cellphones w/o warrants are doing the right thing...

The meter man trespasses into my yard every month to check the meter without permission... Maybe I should go sue him for that.


Sounds air tight! Do it and report back...

drodge said:   Not sure if it helps or not, but all the talk about being buried and therefore an improvement or a fixture was irrelevant to me in VA. Not exactly the same scenario, but similar. I purchased a home here with an underground propane tank. There was no mention anywhere in any of my paperwork about it. All of the homes in my neighborhood have them also. None of the other second-hand buyers got prior notice either that I know of. The tank was installed by the propane company when the house was built and the contract was with the original owner (with a kickback to the builder I'm sure). I was harassed endlessly by the propane company after I purchased the home. They informed me it was illegal to refill the tank through anyone but them (and their rate was about 25-30% higher than other companies in the area). I couldn't believe that was true, so I called around. No other propane company would fill it, not one. I even told them to come and dig up the tank at their expense. I figured it was worth buying my own tank to save that much on propane over the life of the tank. I tried calling their bluff, even going so far as consulting a lawyer. The lawyer cited many cases that went in favor of the propane company. Here at least, you are pretty much screwed. And, yes, I'm still paying for premium propane.

Did they ever sneak onto your property while you were away and rip it out? Sounds like you may have welcomed that at some point, but no - you experienced respect for your personal property, for better or for worse.

deucebigalow said:   The meter man trespasses into my yard every month to check the meter without permission... Maybe I should go sue him for that.
he has unrestricted permission to do such

drodge said:   No other propane company would fill it, not one. I even told them to come and dig up the tank at their expense. I figured it was worth buying my own tank to save that much on propane over the life of the tank. I tried calling their bluff, even going so far as consulting a lawyer
convert to a natural gas grill ?

Cars are repoed all the time from driveways which would be technically trespassing. The fact that it continues to happens means that technicality amounts to diddly squat.

jcbrooks said:   DjScibbity said:   Called Arrow just to find out how much it costs to install the system. Was given a range without seeing the house, but it seems that ~$800 to install would be a close estimate. These guys only come out once per year to check on the stations too. Everything that I read says they should be monitored at least 4 times per year, so they are skimping big time here. What a joke of a company...

Im really wanting to call them and ask why they came onto my property and stole property that is on my land. Is there any harm in doing so? I doubt it will yield much, but Id really like to yell at somebody for this. If it affects future court case though, I will refrain from doing so.

Im doubting the police are going to do much either. Would you REALLY call the police in such a situation? Im thinking the certified letter (and maybe a phone call first) seems like the most reasonable course of action. That will also likely not yield results and will probably end up in small claims court (which could be fun and educational).


Sounds reasonable. A 20 piece system goes for $250 here:

http://www.epestsupply.com/product/263978/Hex-Pro-Termite-Bait-System/

Tack on the usual markup, some over-priced labor, and I'd see them charging $800. However, how hard can it be? Dig a tiny hole, insert the tube, done.

You know what OP, do you still want this kind of termite system at your property? If so, I'd say just go buy a new set (like the $250 link above), and re-use the holes. It's the fastest and cheapest way to solve your main problems. 1) You get termite protection back. 2) It fills the holes. Bonus: You don't have to dig new holes yourself! And then after that you can bitch at people, and maybe file a small claims case, and see if you can get a few hundred out of it. Otherwise, it solves your current headache for only $250. And you can move on with your life.


That makes to much sense. OP is after a payday, not getting on with his life.

JustLJ said:   Lappie said:   So, after I moved in, I began receiving invoices from Arrow Extermiantors (AE) for $350 to renew the annual contract and "Termite Warranty."

Were the invoices in your name or old owner. If yours, how did they get that information?


From the Real Estate closing -- the is most probably a termite provision as a part of the mortgage documents. OP needs to check all that paperwork.


I have a feeling that OP received (and possibly signed) a document related to the termite warranty at the closing, and that document has some fine print.

stanolshefski said:   JustLJ said:   Lappie said:   So, after I moved in, I began receiving invoices from Arrow Extermiantors (AE) for $350 to renew the annual contract and "Termite Warranty."

Were the invoices in your name or old owner. If yours, how did they get that information?


From the Real Estate closing -- the is most probably a termite provision as a part of the mortgage documents. OP needs to check all that paperwork.


I have a feeling that OP received (and possibly signed) a document related to the termite warranty at the closing, and that document has some fine print.


I just checked the paperwork from my own closing. Along with the termite inspection report was a letter which stated that I had 30 days to sign up for their service or they'd come remove the system. I didn't have to sign it, though the house contract did have a portion which stated that I had received the termite inspection report.

DjScibbity said:   OK, so I have a letter in front of me from Arrow (one of the first ones I received that is postmarked June 6, 2013). I moved into the house July 2012. The letter is a single page and states the following verbatum: "You have a Termite Guarantee policy on your home and it is held by Arrow Exterminators. unfortunately we have been unable to contact you to schedule your annual renewal inspection. It is important that we get this scheduled right away to avoid losing valuable coverage. please call our office to schedule your inspection and update your account information. Or if you prefer, you may complete this form at the bottom of this letter and mail or fax back to our office and we will contact you. We appreciate your business and the opportunity to help protect your home. We look forward to hearing from you soon. Sincerely, Arrow Exterminators.

When I received this letter, I did call to see how much it would cost to renew and they quoted me $340 or $350 over the phone. I told them I would think about it and hung up. There was no mention of removing the stations either in the letter or on the phone.
A few weeks later, I received an invoice for $350 to renew the contract. This was an actual invoice and not a letter. I received one more of these a few weeks ago, but am unable to find (may have been discarded). I do not remember EVER seeing anywhere on the invoice that said that if I didnt pay the invoice, they would come take back their equipment.

Im more pissed about them coming onto my property without my permission and leaving damage in their wake than having the system back. I plan to work this weekend to re-fill the holes they left and cover back the spots they left bare. Its probably a few hours of my time, but it is time I should not have to spend doing this.

In response to "Conman's post" I have not actively "used" the systems. In fact, I didnt really know they existed until I saw the first letter, then I noticed them in the ground (a few months ago). I never added any bait or changed anything with them. For all I know, the bait inside is all used up or molded (we've got a lot of rain here this year) and since they only come out once per year instead of the recommended 4+ times, Im thinking that the original owner who paid for these really got ripped off and there wasnt much if any useful life left in the bait.

In response to ZenNuts, I have never signed ANY contract or document that had any mention about Arrow Exterminators (I can all but guarantee there was zero wording in the home sale contract that contained anything about Arrow Exterminators).


DjScibbity said:   OK, so this is my first FW post on the finance forum and Im not sure this belongs here, but here goes:

I purchased a home about a year ago that had the in ground Sentricon terminte system installed and was being service by Arrow Exterminators. As far as I know, the original owner paid a lot initially to have them install the system and then paid annually ($350 which is insane) for them to come out and monitor the stations. So, after I moved in, I began receiving invoices from Arrow Extermiantors (AE) for $350 to renew the annual contract and "Termite Warranty." Being an active Fatwalleter (and a devout skeptic), I was leary of the whole Sentricon system (read about all the cons to this system as well as ways exterminators wiggle out of the termite warranties) and felt that $350 was a waste of money. So, I ignored the invoices and decided I would use the stations since they are there and just monitor and service the stations myself (its not rocket science, though I am versed in that as well). I found online companies that sold replacement bait and read through all the literature on Sentricon and similar systems (still skeptical about it working effectiely, but since it was there I might as well use it).
Anyway, to make a long story longer, I came home from work yesterday and saw a plastic bag on my doorknob. Inside the bag was a brochure from Arrow Extermiantors saying they came and removed all of the in ground bait stations since I have not paid for the annual renewal. I was quite PO'ed at this for many reasons.

First, they came onto my property and into my back yard (I do not have a fence) while I was at work WITHOUT my permission. Thats trespassing in my book and if I was home, I wouldnt have let them onto my property.
Second, they removed all the stations and in many cases, left large holes in the ground, disturbed the ground cover, and were sloppy. Now I need to go back and refill holes, re-spread pine straw, etc. I have a few pictures of some of the holes, but its a bit difficult to see in pictures.
Third, what would have happened if my dog was outside and bit them or if they got injured on my property? This seems like a VERY poor practice.
Last, it was my understanding that the bait stations were paid for by the original owner and that the annual fee was for monitoring and re-baiting if necessary. Maybe this is untrue, but it wasnt clearly explained to me by Arrow.

What are my rights and options here? Call and talk to them and get them to reinstall? Take them to small claims court? I cannot leave the holes because I have a dog that could fall into them and it just looks bad. I was planning on calling Arrow today to give them a piece of my mind and ask for compensation/rectification, but I expect them to tell me to go pound sand. I dont really care too much about the stations, but if I did want to use them again, I would be forced to pay a lot to reinstall them - something that was already paid for by the original owner of the house. I appreciate all of your advice.

PS - Property is in GA (1.5 acres) in case it somehow matters

-DJScibbity

drodge said:   I was harassed endlessly by the propane company after I purchased the home. They informed me it was illegal to refill the tank through anyone but them (and their rate was about 25-30% higher than other companies in the area). I couldn't believe that was true, so I called around. No other propane company would fill it, not one. "Illegal" would mean "against the law", implying there was a municipality-sanctioned monopoly on residential propane service (no different than cable service and power/gas delivery). Probably a protection they receive in exchange for the investment of installing the tanks, like hanging power lines and laying gas pipeline.

StevenColorado said:   stanolshefski said:   I'd start by getting a copy of the original agreement. It's likely they owned the "equipment".

Irrelevant. I used to work for a subscription TV service. You signed up for the service, and they put equipment on your premises. When you cancelled, they sent you notices stating that it was your responsibility to return the equipment. They wouldn't be stupid enough to trespass to get it back. If the equipment wasn't returned, they charged you. Arrow is lucky that OP didn't have a vicious dog on the premises - they would have gotten their workmen injured and have a clear workmen's comp case and a lawsuit from them.



Comcast came to my house a few weeks after I bought it to reclaim their digital phone service box mounted on the house. I wasn't using Comcast, I was using another cable company which was using the same model box, mounted right next to Comcast's. I thought nothing of it at the time, but I never gave Comcast permission to do anything to my house, nor did they request anything. They left deep holes in the siding which could have led to rot and insect damage without repairs.

I would start by getting a police report and work from there. IF the termite boxes belonged to Arrow, than they should have made arrangements to reclaim them, not play repo man with someone else's property. If they felt stiffed by your sellers, than their recourse was to go after them for damages.

Glitch99 said:   drodge said:   I was harassed endlessly by the propane company after I purchased the home. They informed me it was illegal to refill the tank through anyone but them (and their rate was about 25-30% higher than other companies in the area). I couldn't believe that was true, so I called around. No other propane company would fill it, not one. "Illegal" would mean "against the law", implying there was a municipality-sanctioned monopoly on residential propane service (no different than cable service and power/gas delivery). Probably a protection they receive in exchange for the investment of installing the tanks, like hanging power lines and laying gas pipeline.

Propane tanks are nearly always leased, and the lease contracts don't allow you to put anything in it, only to take it out.
If you own the tank, you can get it filled by anybody and usually for a discount around 20 cents per gallon because they aren't absorbing the cost of the tank.
OTOH, I've never heard of a buried propane tank. Bet the EPA wouldn't let you do that today.

Fuel oil tanks used to get buried a lot, and I've never heard of an oil tank, buried or not, that wasn't individually owned.

drodge said:   Not sure if it helps or not, but all the talk about being buried and therefore an improvement or a fixture was irrelevant to me in VA. Not exactly the same scenario, but similar. I purchased a home here with an underground propane tank. There was no mention anywhere in any of my paperwork about it. All of the homes in my neighborhood have them also. None of the other second-hand buyers got prior notice either that I know of. The tank was installed by the propane company when the house was built and the contract was with the original owner (with a kickback to the builder I'm sure). I was harassed endlessly by the propane company after I purchased the home. They informed me it was illegal to refill the tank through anyone but them (and their rate was about 25-30% higher than other companies in the area). I couldn't believe that was true, so I called around. No other propane company would fill it, not one. I even told them to come and dig up the tank at their expense. I figured it was worth buying my own tank to save that much on propane over the life of the tank. I tried calling their bluff, even going so far as consulting a lawyer. The lawyer cited many cases that went in favor of the propane company. Here at least, you are pretty much screwed. And, yes, I'm still paying for premium propane.

Why couldn't you have just bought your own tank and told the old company to pound sand. If they want to take the tank, let them take the tank. If they want to leave it abandoned, let them leave it abandoned next to your shiny new tank. I'd switch to oil heat before I let some tin can monopoly dictate who I can buy energy from. Mr. Propane Company, it would be a real shame if anything happened to that there buried propane tank underneath the sand you pounding.......

stardent said:   Cars are repoed all the time from driveways which would be technically trespassing. The fact that it continues to happens means that technicality amounts to diddly squat.

Err, except that if you actually read an auto loan contract (try it, you might learn something) any contract will have language that allows allows the bank or their agents (repo men) to come onto your property at any time to get the car. Also, most (if not all, I only worked in about half the states) have laws regarding what repo men can/can't do. For example, they can come onto your property and open a gate, they can't break down your garage door with their tow truck and drag your car out.

Do you honestly think auto lending would be a thing if the government banned anybody from coming on private property to repossess a car? Hell, I'd be driving a Bentley and always park it at home or in a private work parking garage, nobody could touch me!



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