ACH fees to financial institutions

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I was recently searching for how much ACH transfers cost financial institutions.  You'll find the information here:  https://www.nacha.org/Ntwrkadminfee  

There was some misinformation in another FW thread I saw that indicated it was as much as .10-.20 USD per transaction for the receiving instituation, but it is not.  Alas, it is only .000145 (for 2013 and 2014 at least).

Some backstory:
TDBank (who recently settled for $62 mil for overdraft scamming (ie. ordering deposits/charges to ensure customers would overdraft)) did the same to me but with a minimum account value (I dropped below the $2500 minimum for their preferred checking).  They took 3 days to process an ACH instead of the normal 2, resulting in me being below $2500 for a single day and a $25 fee.  Granted, I have more than earned this fee via their lack of foreign currency transaction fees and international ATM fee reimbursement.

But I was still curious to see what I would have to do in order to cost TDBank $25 in ACH fees.  So if you're interested in sticking it to your overzealous bank, here's what you could do:

At $.000145/transaction, you'd need roughly 175000 ACH transactions to cost your bank $25.  The lowest mininum ACH transaction amount for a no-fee ACH transaction service that I could find was $1.00 with paypal.

500 ACH transactions per day for roughly 1 year would get you to 175000 transactions.  So if you had a spare ~$2000 laying around, you could make 500 $1 transfers per day from your bank to paypal, and 500 $1 transfers from paypal to your bank everyday for an entire year and reach your goal.

Now, if they had any brains they'd aggregate ACHs with the same exact source and destination account information into a single ACH before sending it into the ACH network at night.  I'll let you guys know how it turns out.
 

Member Summary

What you fail to consider is the cost involved in the bank participating in ACH. How much overhead do you think it costs a bank to run ACH departments? Fraud loss? You could go on and on. FYI - it costs banks pennies to send/receive wires as well. You just have to remember there are many other costs associated. Don't get me wrong, banks are in the game of making money, but aren't we all? This is FW, right?

Mojodaddy said:   Now, if they had any brains they'd aggregate ACHs with the same exact source and destination account information into a single ACH before sending it into the ACH network at night.  I'll let you guys know how it turns out.
  Talk about a disaster.  If I correctly read what you are saying, you'd want a single ACH credit and debit to your account every day for the sum of your ACH activity.  That is a customer service nightmare.  People already can't figure out half the time what the transactions are for and to jumble them all together in one transaction?  Eeek, no thanks.

How ACH network fee related to your overdraft protection fee?

 

Going through all of this trouble to cost the bank $25 seems extreme. You're better off asking for paper statements on every account.

Man talk about a fringe endeavor.

I believe the transaction order processing logic to which you alluded w/ TD was done in part w/ customer interest in mind. The idea was to ensure that larger transactions (like a mortgage or rent payment) got paid. Most customers want that.

Yeah like you said... you let us know how it turns out.

If any single account started pushing 500 $1 ACH transfers per day, you can bet that the bank would have a new policy limiting such activity (either a daily limit, or minimum transfer amount) before the week was out.

Your time to set up those 500 $1 will cost you more that some satisfaction that you'll get by knowing that bank lost $25 on it.

Plus, doubt it will go through anyway without constant talking with Fraud department (your time) from both sides.

Be sure to post here about it 175,000 times too, to thoroughly waste our time as well.

Better ideas:

Call to cancel your account and/or ask that the $25 fee be credited.
Find some way to cash in on TDBank. I.e. any account bonus or something else.
Find a way to cash in on another bank.

People do things "For the principle" all the time. In this case your only wasting your time, and perhaps likely to get your funds frozen why they are asking you to explain why you would do something so stupid.

Banks all want to make money. Back before the debit card laws went into effect (And before I frequented FW) Chase (Bank 1) charged me close to $500 in overdraft fees when my employer didn't deposit my check (Chase came into my work and sold me on this account, and promised funds would be available at a certain time.) Go after Chase, plenty of options to make money on them.

Note: Thank you Chase for all the free SW flights, stays at Marriott, Etc.

Next you should look into how much the syrup costs McDonalds for each $1 soda they sell.

I'm so ready for the follow up thread:

"TD Bank and Paypal froze my accounts and I don't know why"

If this is the first time getting a service fee, call them and see if they'll reverse it.

Y U MAD OP

OP

Y U MAD

Why not just get an account that doesn't have minimum balance fees?

Bagofchips said:   Man talk about a fringe endeavor.

I believe the transaction order processing logic to which you alluded w/ TD was done in part w/ customer interest in mind. The idea was to ensure that larger transactions (like a mortgage or rent payment) got paid. Most customers want that.

Yeah like you said... you let us know how it turns out.

  You must work at a bank and believe the line they ask you to tell the consumer.  Until my state made it illegal the banks here cleared transactions that way too (largest to smallest - deposits last).
Most customers want...
$2000 Balance
-$2100 Check(NSF), -$35 overdraft, -$300 Check(NSF), -$35 overdraft, -$200 Check(NSF), -$35 overdraft, -$10 Check(NSF), -$35 overdraft

Instead of...
$2000 Balance
-$10 Check(paid), -$200 Check(paid), -$300 Check(paid), -$2100 Check(NSF), -$35 overdraft.

Yeah, I think most consumers would prefer the $35 fee instead of the $140?  Keep in mind the banks that were running deposits last would charge those $140 in fees and have a $5000 deposit on the same day as well so it never REALLY went negative.  I don't see how running transactions largest to smallest benefits anyone except the bank?

Things changed somewhat with the card act, but as well it would be better for the consumer to have the $200 and $300 credit card bills on time rather than the $2100 mortgage payment as the credit cards would then default your APR to 30%, while usually there is a grace period on a mortgage along with maybe a $150 late fee.

sorry OP, but this is dumb!

to really cost them money, i did this to capital one when they would not give me back $35 for overdraft.

I set up a recurring weekly billpay payment for $0.01 sent to my home. talking about a check doesn't worth the paper it printed on. postage alone would cost them you know the first class postage rate. along with the paper and envelope. i could've done it for daily or sent me 10 $0.01 check via post a day. I got annoyed seeing all these checks after awhile.

why do you think they prefer you do paperless? it cost a lot of money to do mailing.

vipercon said:   
Bagofchips said:   Man talk about a fringe endeavor.

I believe the transaction order processing logic to which you alluded w/ TD was done in part w/ customer interest in mind. The idea was to ensure that larger transactions (like a mortgage or rent payment) got paid. Most customers want that.

Yeah like you said... you let us know how it turns out.

  You must work at a bank and believe the line they ask you to tell the consumer.  Until my state made it illegal the banks here cleared transactions that way too (largest to smallest - deposits last).
Most customers want...
$2000 Balance
-$2100 Check(NSF), -$35 overdraft, -$300 Check(NSF), -$35 overdraft, -$200 Check(NSF), -$35 overdraft, -$10 Check(NSF), -$35 overdraft

Instead of...
$2000 Balance
-$10 Check(paid), -$200 Check(paid), -$300 Check(paid), -$2100 Check(NSF), -$35 overdraft.

Yeah, I think most consumers would prefer the $35 fee instead of the $140?  Keep in mind the banks that were running deposits last would charge those $140 in fees and have a $5000 deposit on the same day as well so it never REALLY went negative.  I don't see how running transactions largest to smallest benefits anyone except the bank?

Things changed somewhat with the card act, but as well it would be better for the consumer to have the $200 and $300 credit card bills on time rather than the $2100 mortgage payment as the credit cards would then default your APR to 30%, while usually there is a grace period on a mortgage along with maybe a $150 late fee.

  
Yeah yeah yeah.   Anybody can contrive any example they want.  In your example you ignore the additional onerous fees & consequences from a large-ticket payment that fails.

mjoply said:   Going through all of this trouble to cost the bank $25 seems extreme. You're better off asking for paper statements on every account.
  Or stealing their pens. Lots of them.

DavidScubadiver said:   
mjoply said:   Going through all of this trouble to cost the bank $25 seems extreme. You're better off asking for paper statements on every account.
  Or stealing their pens. Lots of them.

  If you're going to that trouble then bring in a bag to haul out the deposit slips and brochures too.
I actually had Compass sending me paper statements for years with .05 in the account to punish them for changing the terms on my checking account and charging me some sort of maintenance fee.

Exploit an account bonus with friends and family. Easy.

Good info; amazing that BofA and Wells still charge $3 for ACH transactions, most everyone else including other mega-banks do it for free



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