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rated:
I've been looking at getting a new hybrid car recently. I've used the online calculators that show you the break even point in terms of gas savings, but I notice they don't take into account the higher value of the Hybrid car if you're upgrading from a used car.

Factors:
-Current car is 10 years old, gets 30mpg. Want to get rid of it because I'm tired of driving a manual. Probably can get about 8k for it.
-My employer will reimburse me about $2k for purchase of a new hybrid or electric (no lease).

Of the two cars I'm looking at, the Honda Insight (44mpg) has a break even period for gas costs alone after 7 years, and the Prius (50mpg) after 10 years. But the Prius comes out to be a better deal if I take into account the value of the car after 10 years as I believe it should have a stronger resale value.

Is it incorrect to take into account the value of the cars in calculating when I'll truly be breaking even? Also, any other factors I should consider that I may be missing?

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rated:
There is no break even period on going from a 30 mpg used car to a brand new hybrid.

If you are doing this for fun, then go for it... but it will never make economic sense.

For example the average car goes 12,500 miles a year. At 44 MPG you'll use 284 gallons versus 416 at 30 MPG. At today's gas price that is only around $450 a year. Mind you that car is going to lose 20% of its value(probably $5000) the second you drive it off the lot and you'll be out the opportunity cost of the car.
 

rated:
Hybrids don't pay for themselves when you consider the $7k+ premium on price, they really will hurt when the batteries die in 7-10 years just about make the car worthless when you have to put in 10k for a car worth 15k,

rated:
DamnoIT said:   Hybrids don't pay for themselves when you consider the $7k+ premium on price, they really will hurt when the batteries die in 7-10 years just about make the car worthless when you have to put in 10k for a car worth 15k,
  You really have no clue what you are talking about...10k? Wow, I just put in a refurbished battery pack in my 2004 Prius for $800. New one at the stealership was $3,000 installed. You may want to look at facts before you talk out of your butt.

rated:
$ savings is an illusion with hybrids.

rated:
leia7987 said:   
DamnoIT said:   Hybrids don't pay for themselves when you consider the $7k+ premium on price, they really will hurt when the batteries die in 7-10 years just about make the car worthless when you have to put in 10k for a car worth 15k,
  You really have no clue what you are talking about...10k? Wow, I just put in a refurbished battery pack in my 2004 Prius for $800. New one at the stealership was $3,000 installed. You may want to look at facts before you talk out of your butt.

 
When I buy something crappy I also have the tendency to defend it.

rated:
I recently read an article that the ford fusion hybrid had the lowest break even point compared to the gas version

rated:
It really depend on how much city/hway driving you do.

Heard a lot of good thing on the Fusion, but when gas cars like Focus and Cruze Eco gets 44 MPG on freeway, unless you do a lot of city driving it's not even worth doing the calculation.

rated:
If you spend 35K on a plugin hybrid and 35K on a f250. Clearly the plugin hybrid would win in overall savings.

rated:
Take a look at the Chevy Volt.  
Some states offer incentives on top of the $7500 federal tax credit (check if you qualify).  After credits and rebates and such, some people are getting a new Volt for around $24k.

It can go about 40 - 50 miles on a full charge, then gets 38 mpg on the gas engine thereafter.
Depending on your driving pattern, your gas costs could drop significantly.

rated:
Are you going to buy a new car in any case?

If so then the $2k incentive from your employer might make the hybrid a better deal for you.
But if your goal here is just to save cash then your current car is better option. Or trade it in for a similar used car with an automatic if thats all you really want.

rated:
CrAsian said:   Take a look at the Chevy Volt.  
Some states offer incentives on top of the $7500 federal tax credit (check if you qualify).  After credits and rebates and such, some people are getting a new Volt for around $24k.

It can go about 40 - 50 miles on a full charge, then gets 38 mpg on the gas engine thereafter.
Depending on your driving pattern, your gas costs could drop significantly.

  I was taking a look at the Leaf, which if I could have leased with my employer incentive would essentially start saving me money from day 1. The only reason I'm hesitant to purchase an electric car outright is the uncertainty of their resale value when longer range vehicles come to market in the next 2-3 years.

rated:
jerosen said:   Are you going to buy a new car in any case?

If so then the $2k incentive from your employer might make the hybrid a better deal for you.
But if your goal here is just to save cash then your current car is better option. Or trade it in for a similar used car with an automatic if thats all you really want.

  The only reason I'd like to buy new in this case is because of the incentive. I'd buy used in any other scenario.

The other issue is how overpriced used hybrids are in my area. Almost all are listed $1-2k above KBB, while most new ones are listed atleast $4k below msrp.

rated:
How does the cost (including the incentive) compare with a used non-hybrid fuel-efficient vehicle?

rated:
Look chseee the cost of ownership is not the purchase price/payment + gas + maintenance + repairs + insurance.

Its ***depreciation*** + gas + maintenance + repairs + insurance. There are rare sets of circumstances where a hybrid makes financial sense relative to a vehicle with similar properties (engine, quality of interior, mileage, etc.). This is for 2 reasons:
1) Typically speaking the comparable non hybrid vehicle has gas mileage not materially all that different in percentage terms. 23 vs. 28, 32 vs. 39, etc. type situations.
2) They always seem to have very steep depreciation curves (largely because of their reduced useful lives) and that increase in depreciation expense relative to peers is what typically makes hybrids more expensive for just about everybody.

Authority: Approximately 3/4 of the cars I've bought for myself I've either sold for more or broke even on during my holding period (i.e. my depreciation was either near zero or I managed to produce *a*ppreciation over that period). And my holding periods aren't super short either.

rated:
The incentive makes it worthwhile to look at the hybrid if you were looking to buy a new car anyway. If you actually enjoy driving, I would not recommend a Prius. Don't have experience with any other hybrids.

rated:
dshibb said:   Look chseee the cost of ownership is not the purchase price/payment + gas + maintenance + repairs + insurance.

Its ***depreciation*** + gas + maintenance + repairs + insurance. There are rare sets of circumstances where a hybrid makes financial sense relative to a vehicle with similar properties (engine, quality of interior, mileage, etc.). This is for 2 reasons:
1) Typically speaking the comparable non hybrid vehicle has gas mileage not materially all that different in percentage terms. 23 vs. 28, 32 vs. 39, etc. type situations.
2) They always seem to have very steep depreciation curves (largely because of their reduced useful lives) and that increase in depreciation expense relative to peers is what typically makes hybrids more expensive for just about everybody.
...
 

  
From what I've seen at least Toyota hybrids seem to hold their value better than average.    People want $6-8k for a '04 Prius.  

 

rated:
jerosen said:   
dshibb said:   Look chseee the cost of ownership is not the purchase price/payment + gas + maintenance + repairs + insurance.

Its ***depreciation*** + gas + maintenance + repairs + insurance. There are rare sets of circumstances where a hybrid makes financial sense relative to a vehicle with similar properties (engine, quality of interior, mileage, etc.). This is for 2 reasons:
1) Typically speaking the comparable non hybrid vehicle has gas mileage not materially all that different in percentage terms. 23 vs. 28, 32 vs. 39, etc. type situations.
2) They always seem to have very steep depreciation curves (largely because of their reduced useful lives) and that increase in depreciation expense relative to peers is what typically makes hybrids more expensive for just about everybody.
...

  
From what I've seen at least Toyota hybrids seem to hold their value better than average.    People want $6-8k for a '04 Prius.  

 

  
Year means nothing. It's mileage that is the focus. Hybrids tend don't list as much in higher mileage so that can make their year numbers look better.

I mostly define depreciation by looking at the best available prices (not average) between mileage and another mileage. Then knowing that it will be a little higher depreciation than that due to aging of the vehicle as well.

So I would try to compare best prices out there for 2007 with ~40k miles vs. best pricing for same model 2007s with ~90k miles. The spread is the vast majority of your depreciation. Some vehicles that have been shown to have very long useful lives will have much thinner depreciation using this method and it will look more like a straight line. Other vehicles that have produced a lot more variance in useful lives tend to have much wider depreciation and it will be more of a curve.

rated:
OP, FYI: Insight is discontinued few months ago in US. I wouldn't buy a leftover  either. 

Look at 2nd gen Prius with around 100k-120k for $8-10k (depends on where you live). 2nd gen Prius is very reliable. I have one, it costed me $60 over the last three years and 40k miles for maintenance (DIY) and I get over 50mpg. Even in the worst case scenario where the HV battery dies, if you are handy, it costs $50 to fix it.  If not, you can have it fixed for $400 to $1000. . Check priuschat for more info, many step by step threads over there for changing your battery modules. Don't listen to people who tells stories that originated from a friend of a friend

rated:
I agree with most of the comments here. I bought a brand new Prius more for fun and feeling good than anything else. Yes it feels good to get 50 mpg. It does not cost an extra limb as the other poster said. Just a little bit more. 60-month free financing makes it a better deal too. After-sale servicing has been excellent and the first 2 years/20,000 miles are free.

P.S. Plan to stay in the slow lane driving a Prius as the engine is kind of weak.

rated:
silenze said:   I recently read an article that the ford fusion hybrid had the lowest break even point compared to the gas version
  Outsourcing basic math always leads to inferior results.

rated:
Check out Fuelly, they give you real world fuel economy numbers on lots of cars (provided by the actual drivers inputs from miles driven and fuel consumed). Don't trust the manufacturers numbers, they are based on a tightly controlled scenario that is about as far from what anyone could achieve in real life as possible.

rated:
Dus10 said:   Check out Fuelly, they give you real world fuel economy numbers on lots of cars (provided by the actual drivers inputs from miles driven and fuel consumed). Don't trust the manufacturers numbers, they are based on a tightly controlled scenario that is about as far from what anyone could achieve in real life as possible.
  I love Fuelly. I'm a little OCD about it. Have not missed entering a fill-up in 3 years on any of me 3 vehicles. Oh well.

rated:
I bought Camry hybrid last year.
From experience
-Engine is really quiet.
-Mileage will go up and down with season. In winter, it dropped to 35 and now it is up to 42 to 44
-Highway mileage is lower. It is around 34.
-Short distance mileage is lower even if you do entire driving in city area. It takes few minutes for EV to kick in. So, short trips (5 miles or lower) will be on gas with lower mileage
-Your ideal daily one way driving should be around 20 miles or higher and combination of city and highway.
-Camry Engine has Eco mode which reduces power. So, don't compete with BMW/Lexus in Eco mode if you want to speed. You need to get out of Eco mode to feel real power. I have hardly done it but it is fun to do once in a while.
-Suspension is much better.
-Trunk size is reasonable.
-One thing I noticed that Camry Hybrid LE model has similar features as of regular higher end Camry XLE model.

rated:
In general, I like the idea of getting a hybrid or all electric car - there are benefits that I can't necessarily put a cost on such as their benefit during gasoline shortages/rationing. We haven't seen that in a long time obviously, but I wouldn't say there's a 0% chance of it happening in the next 10 years. Despite that, some of them looked attractive without factoring in those oddball risks.

I looked at the Leaf too and the biggest restriction was its range. The federal tax credit brought the price to a point where it made sense to me with the right loan terms, because the savings from no fuel (but still using electricity) was worth it. The issue for me was that while the Leaf covers mileage for daily driving adequately, I would feel limited on my longer trips. If the range was up around 150 miles, I can make it work with a 30 minute stop every 2 hours or so. Unfortunately, their 75-83 mile range just isn't enough, and I didn't want the hassle of renting a car every time I make a longer trip.

I'm guessing that in 5-10 years, I may be more likely to get an electric car once range improves and hopefully the price doesn't go up too much the day this federal subsidy goes away. I would imagine it's only in place initially to help support the R&D needed to make these technologies more viable.

rated:
CollegeSavings said:   I bought Camry hybrid last year.
From experience
-Engine is really quiet.
-Mileage will go up and down with season. In winter, it dropped to 35 and now it is up to 42 to 44
-Highway mileage is lower. It is around 34.
-Short distance mileage is lower even if you do entire driving in city area. It takes few minutes for EV to kick in. So, short trips (5 miles or lower) will be on gas with lower mileage
-Your ideal daily one way driving should be around 20 miles or higher and combination of city and highway.
-Camry Engine has Eco mode which reduces power. So, don't compete with BMW/Lexus in Eco mode if you want to speed. You need to get out of Eco mode to feel real power. I have hardly done it but it is fun to do once in a while.
-Suspension is much better.
-Trunk size is reasonable.
-One thing I noticed that Camry Hybrid LE model has similar features as of regular higher end Camry XLE model.

  We have a 13 yr old camry, took it on a road trip to visit relatives. It got 35 mpg on highway doing 75-80 all the time. Its a 4 cylinder, makes me hold off on buying a hybrid.

rated:
znamya said:   OP, FYI: Insight is discontinued few months ago in US. I wouldn't buy a leftover  either. 

Look at 2nd gen Prius with around 100k-120k for $8-10k (depends on where you live). 2nd gen Prius is very reliable. I have one, it costed me $60 over the last three years and 40k miles for maintenance (DIY) and I get over 50mpg. Even in the worst case scenario where the HV battery dies, if you are handy, it costs $50 to fix it.  If not, you can have it fixed for $400 to $1000. . Check priuschat for more info, many step by step threads over there for changing your battery modules. Don't listen to people who tells stories that originated from a friend of a friend

  What?? .  Please provide references how you can fix a Prius battery for $50 ?  

rated:
leia7987 said:   
DamnoIT said:   Hybrids don't pay for themselves when you consider the $7k+ premium on price, they really will hurt when the batteries die in 7-10 years just about make the car worthless when you have to put in 10k for a car worth 15k,
  You really have no clue what you are talking about...10k? Wow, I just put in a refurbished battery pack in my 2004 Prius for $800. New one at the stealership was $3,000 installed. You may want to look at facts before you talk out of your butt.

  That is good news, but how long do these refurbished batteries last ?  Because $800 has just wiped out about 3 years of savings compared to a small 4 cylinder car.

rated:
BlueSeaLake said:   
CollegeSavings said:   I bought Camry hybrid last year.
From experience
-Engine is really quiet.
-Mileage will go up and down with season. In winter, it dropped to 35 and now it is up to 42 to 44
-Highway mileage is lower. It is around 34.
-Short distance mileage is lower even if you do entire driving in city area. It takes few minutes for EV to kick in. So, short trips (5 miles or lower) will be on gas with lower mileage
-Your ideal daily one way driving should be around 20 miles or higher and combination of city and highway.
-Camry Engine has Eco mode which reduces power. So, don't compete with BMW/Lexus in Eco mode if you want to speed. You need to get out of Eco mode to feel real power. I have hardly done it but it is fun to do once in a while.
-Suspension is much better.
-Trunk size is reasonable.
-One thing I noticed that Camry Hybrid LE model has similar features as of regular higher end Camry XLE model.

  We have a 13 yr old camry, took it on a road trip to visit relatives. It got 35 mpg on highway doing 75-80 all the time. Its a 4 cylinder, makes me hold off on buying a hybrid.

  When you get up to higher efficiencies, an individual's "driving style" has a larger numerical effect on mpg.  I say numerical, because the effect is really not larger.

If you burn an extra 0.1 gallons of gas in 10 miles (hard accelerations/bad braking/etc), this will change a 10mpg vehicle to 9.1mpg, a difference of only 0.9mpg.  However, if you burn an extra amount of energy equal to 0.1 gallons of gas in a 10 mile trip with a 44 mpg vehicle, this drops the trip to 30.56 mpg -- a numerical difference of 13.44 mpg.  In both cases, you're wasting the same amount of additional energy (0.1 gallons of gas) but the effect appears larger.
(Math for the above cases but with additional rounding throwing numbers off a bit...:  10 miles at 10mpg = 1gallon.  1+0.1 = 1.1gal for 10 mi.  1/0.11 = 9.1mpg.  10 miles at 44mpg = 0.23gal. 0.23+0.1 = 0.33gal for 10mi.  1/0.033 =  30.3mpg)

This also creates a problem on sites like Fuelly when comparing two very different vehicles, say, Prius C's to Fusion Hybrids.  The Fusion is a larger vehicle (3700lb vs <2600lb), therefore when you waste energy you will waste an extra ~40% energy with rapid stops or acceleration.  It also has more available power, allowing someone to CHOOSE to burn additional fuel to accelerate faster, etc.  The low power of the Prius and the tiny size of the C prevents someone from dropping their overall mpg by as much through choices they make when driving.
 

rated:
Bend3r said:   
BlueSeaLake said:   
CollegeSavings said:   I bought Camry hybrid last year.
From experience
-Engine is really quiet.
-Mileage will go up and down with season. In winter, it dropped to 35 and now it is up to 42 to 44
-Highway mileage is lower. It is around 34.
-Short distance mileage is lower even if you do entire driving in city area. It takes few minutes for EV to kick in. So, short trips (5 miles or lower) will be on gas with lower mileage
-Your ideal daily one way driving should be around 20 miles or higher and combination of city and highway.
-Camry Engine has Eco mode which reduces power. So, don't compete with BMW/Lexus in Eco mode if you want to speed. You need to get out of Eco mode to feel real power. I have hardly done it but it is fun to do once in a while.
-Suspension is much better.
-Trunk size is reasonable.
-One thing I noticed that Camry Hybrid LE model has similar features as of regular higher end Camry XLE model.

  We have a 13 yr old camry, took it on a road trip to visit relatives. It got 35 mpg on highway doing 75-80 all the time. Its a 4 cylinder, makes me hold off on buying a hybrid.

  When you get up to higher efficiencies, an individual's "driving style" has a larger numerical effect on mpg.  I say numerical, because the effect is really not larger.

If you burn an extra 0.1 gallons of gas in 10 miles (hard accelerations/bad braking/etc), this will change a 10mpg vehicle to 9.1mpg, a difference of only 0.9mpg.  However, if you burn an extra amount of energy equal to 0.1 gallons of gas in a 10 mile trip with a 44 mpg vehicle, this drops the trip to 30.56 mpg -- a numerical difference of 13.44 mpg.  In both cases, you're wasting the same amount of additional energy (0.1 gallons of gas) but the effect appears larger.
(Math for the above cases but with additional rounding throwing numbers off a bit...:  10 miles at 10mpg = 1gallon.  1+0.1 = 1.1gal for 10 mi.  1/0.11 = 9.1mpg.  10 miles at 44mpg = 0.23gal. 0.23+0.1 = 0.33gal for 10mi.  1/0.033 =  30.3mpg)

This also creates a problem on sites like Fuelly when comparing two very different vehicles, say, Prius C's to Fusion Hybrids.  The Fusion is a larger vehicle, therefore when you waste energy you will waste additional energy.  It also has more available power, allowing someone to CHOOSE to burn additional fuel to accelerate faster, etc.  The low power of the Prius and the tiny size of the C prevents someone from dropping their overall mpg by as much through choices they make when driving.

  What?

rated:
Quikboy4 said:   
Bend3r said:   
BlueSeaLake said:   
CollegeSavings said:   I bought Camry hybrid last year.
From experience
-Engine is really quiet.
-Mileage will go up and down with season. In winter, it dropped to 35 and now it is up to 42 to 44
-Highway mileage is lower. It is around 34.
-Short distance mileage is lower even if you do entire driving in city area. It takes few minutes for EV to kick in. So, short trips (5 miles or lower) will be on gas with lower mileage
-Your ideal daily one way driving should be around 20 miles or higher and combination of city and highway.
-Camry Engine has Eco mode which reduces power. So, don't compete with BMW/Lexus in Eco mode if you want to speed. You need to get out of Eco mode to feel real power. I have hardly done it but it is fun to do once in a while.
-Suspension is much better.
-Trunk size is reasonable.
-One thing I noticed that Camry Hybrid LE model has similar features as of regular higher end Camry XLE model.

  We have a 13 yr old camry, took it on a road trip to visit relatives. It got 35 mpg on highway doing 75-80 all the time. Its a 4 cylinder, makes me hold off on buying a hybrid.

  When you get up to higher efficiencies, an individual's "driving style" has a larger numerical effect on mpg.  I say numerical, because the effect is really not larger.

If you burn an extra 0.1 gallons of gas in 10 miles (hard accelerations/bad braking/etc), this will change a 10mpg vehicle to 9.1mpg, a difference of only 0.9mpg.  However, if you burn an extra amount of energy equal to 0.1 gallons of gas in a 10 mile trip with a 44 mpg vehicle, this drops the trip to 30.56 mpg -- a numerical difference of 13.44 mpg.  In both cases, you're wasting the same amount of additional energy (0.1 gallons of gas) but the effect appears larger.
(Math for the above cases but with additional rounding throwing numbers off a bit...:  10 miles at 10mpg = 1gallon.  1+0.1 = 1.1gal for 10 mi.  1/0.11 = 9.1mpg.  10 miles at 44mpg = 0.23gal. 0.23+0.1 = 0.33gal for 10mi.  1/0.033 =  30.3mpg)

This also creates a problem on sites like Fuelly when comparing two very different vehicles, say, Prius C's to Fusion Hybrids.  The Fusion is a larger vehicle, therefore when you waste energy you will waste additional energy.  It also has more available power, allowing someone to CHOOSE to burn additional fuel to accelerate faster, etc.  The low power of the Prius and the tiny size of the C prevents someone from dropping their overall mpg by as much through choices they make when driving.

  What?

  Numbers are misleading.

1000 miles at
10 mpg = 100 gals used
15 mpg = 66.6 gals used (save 33.3 gals)
25 mpg = 40 gals used (Save 26.6 gals)
50 mpg = 20 gals used (Save 20 gals)
100 mpg = 10 gals used (Save 10 gals)

So, an additional 5 mpg from 10 mpg saves you 33.3 gals.
But an additional 10 mpg from 15 mpg only saves you 26.6 gals, NOT 66.6 gal.

 

rated:
hkgfnt said:   I agree with most of the comments here. I bought a brand new Prius more for fun and feeling good than anything else. Yes it feels good to get 50 mpg. It does not cost an extra limb as the other poster said. Just a little bit more. 60-month free financing makes it a better deal too. After-sale servicing has been excellent and the first 2 years/20,000 miles are free.

P.S. Plan to stay in the slow lane driving a Prius as the engine is kind of weak.

  The Prius has 4 modes, EV, ECO, Normal, and PWR.  If you put the Prius in PWR mode it's actually responsive.  

rated:
cruisencode said:   
  The Prius has 4 modes, EV, ECO, Normal, and PWR.  If you put the Prius in PWR mode it's actually responsive.  


An amazing, >11 second, 0-60 of responsiveness?

rated:
ankitgu said:   I looked at the Leaf too and the biggest restriction was its range. The federal tax credit brought the price to a point where it made sense to me with the right loan terms, because the savings from no fuel (but still using electricity) was worth it. The issue for me was that while the Leaf covers mileage for daily driving adequately, I would feel limited on my longer trips. If the range was up around 150 miles, I can make it work with a 30 minute stop every 2 hours or so. Unfortunately, their 75-83 mile range just isn't enough, and I didn't want the hassle of renting a car every time I make a longer trip.
 

Don't sell your current ICE car. Keep it around for the longer trips.
 

rated:
Prius and Power Mode can never be in the same sentence.

rated:
DaGimp said:   Prius and Power Mode can never be in the same sentence.
Have you never seen the powerful ///Prius before?

rated:
chseee said:   Of the two cars I'm looking at, the Honda Insight (44mpg) has a break even period for gas costs alone after 7 years, and the Prius (50mpg) after 10 years. But the Prius comes out to be a better deal if I take into account the value of the car after 10 years as I believe it should have a stronger resale value.
  
Does this calculation also take into account charging costs? I'd think this would be an important consideration also and would likely push out the break even period even further.

Instead of doing a MPG comparison it would be interesting to see an energy cost per mile for a more accurate comparison.

Edit: Thanks dcg9381, I confused the 2 hybrid versus plugin.

rated:
master44 said:    
Does this calculation also take into account charging costs? I'd think this would be an important consideration also and would likely push out the break even period even further.
 

  
I don't think he's talking about plug-in electrics or even hybrids.  The cost of "charging" is built into the MPG.

rated:
dcg9381 said:   
master44 said:    
Does this calculation also take into account charging costs? I'd think this would be an important consideration also and would likely push out the break even period even further.

  
I don't think he's talking about plug-in electrics or even hybrids.  The cost of "charging" is built into the MPG.

 
Charging costs will mostly be cheaper than gas, obviously, that depends on what your electric rates are.
I pay 8.8 cents/kWh
A full charge on my Volt is 13.5 kWh
8.8 cents x 13.5 kWh = $1.18 for a full charge
So, for $1.18, I can drive 52 miles.

With gas at $3.50/gallon, it would cost a Prius getting 50 MPG $3.64 to drive 52 miles, or about 66% more than a Volt.

Skipping 21 Messages...
rated:
It's only one data point, but I've owned a second-generation (2006) Prius from day one and the only thing I've had to do (other than the scheduled maintenance) is replace a few bulbs and a wheel bearing. The Prius will clock 150,000 miles this month.

It's been a solid car for me; if you're looking into a hybrid, take a look at used 2nd gen Priuses.

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