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I'm looking for any advice on how best to disinherit my 20 y.o. son who has betrayed me to the very core and hasn't spoken to me in nearly 2 years. I have been reading a lot about this and it seems disinheriting a child often results in litigation. Obviously I will have it drawn up by an attorney, but looking for any advice. I'm 43, so I will likely live a long time before this comes in to play. This is how I plan to word the beginning...~~For purposes of this document my other son XXXXX has predeceased me, and I leave only these words: 

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In some states, like Michigan, you can pre-file your will with the probate court for a fee ($25) to make sure it does no... (more)

rooms222 (May. 30, 2014 @ 2:14p) |

(1) yea
  (2) yea, we're all unfortunately obligated to others, even strangers.  I, for example, owe my neighbor the resp... (more)

borrris (May. 30, 2014 @ 3:39p) |

Getting revenge is worthless if it happens so many years in the future. Make a fake will that insults him and leaves hi... (more)

9000 (Jun. 09, 2014 @ 5:57p) |

OP wants to disinherit son.
Reason: Son hacked into OPs accounts and ex-wife's discovery of FW H&B references cost OP lots of money.

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LOOPHOLE said:   I'm looking for any advice on how best to disinherit my 20 y.o. son who has betrayed me to the very core and hasn't spoken to me in nearly 2 years. I have been reading a lot about this and it seems disinheriting a child often results in litigation. Obviously I will have it drawn up by an attorney, but looking for any advice. I'm 43, so I will likely live a long time before this comes in to play. This is how I plan to word the beginning...~~For purposes of this document my other son XXXXX has predeceased me, and I leave only these words: 
  For the sake of everyone involved, I hope by the time it comes to it, your son has turned a new page (we are after all talking about someone doing something between 18-20 years of age) and you have reconciled.

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What could he have possibly done to you that you're completely ruling out the possibility of EVER forgiving him?

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Why does it matter what happens after you are gone?

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Just leave him a dollar.

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Anything can end up in litigation, but a properly signed, dated, and witnessed will is going to be pretty hard to argue against.

*edit* I was wrong on the second part.

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In your will, leave him $1.00. That way you recognize him, but have not disinherited him.

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supersnoop00 said:   Just leave him a dollar.
  
And a lump of coal

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Leave him your debts. That'll show 'em.

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What state are you in?

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Die broke.

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Talk to a lawyer and have him craft it.

FYI I know that I have heard the $1 will can be very bad as in some states the person getting the inheritance has to approve of resulting in this $1 that must legally be given to the person, but that they refuse to accept making the will drag on and take much longer/more expensive than it would be otherwise. Note: I may have the details wrong, but I do remember very strongly that the $1 could cause far more problems than it would solve.

This really is something that you need an expert lawyer for not fatwallet members who generally only have anecdotes yet will state things as legal facts.

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defjukie said:   What could he have possibly done to you that you're completely ruling out the possibility of EVER forgiving him?
 

  He completely sided with his mother in the divorce, not just sided but gave her ammunition to help her by hacking in to my computer and email accounts, etc.  So aside from the emotional toll, he cost me tens of thousands of dollars unnecessarily. The icing on the cake came a few days a go when my lawyer forwarded me an email in which he completely fabricated a story in order to help his wretched mother get another BOGUS restraining order! The last one cost me $5,000 to get removed. He's also gotten a completely free vehicle. I gave the kid everything his entire life, but he's just like his mother, ungrateful to the nth degree!

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LOOPHOLE said:   
defjukie said:   What could he have possibly done to you that you're completely ruling out the possibility of EVER forgiving him?
  He completely sided with his mother in the divorce, not just sided but gave her ammunition to help her by hacking in to my computer and email accounts, etc.  So aside from the emotional toll, he cost me tens of thousands of dollars unnecessarily. The icing on the cake came a few days a go when my lawyer forwarded me an email in which he completely fabricated a story in order to help his wretched mother get another BOGUS restraining order! The last one cost me $5,000 to get removed. He's also gotten a completely free vehicle. I gave the kid everything his entire life, but he's just like his mother, ungrateful to the nth degree!

  
You have a family law attorney you used in the divorce. Seriously ask him. If he can't do it, then I have a better explanation for why you got destroyed in the divorce than your son and wife conspiring against you.

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AFAIK there is no reason you can't disinherit your child in a will. The problem is that you don't want to do it by omission, but by specifically stating that they are not to receive anything.

Of course, IANAL, but I expect that whatever you put in your will you should have a lawyer read over to ensure that it is all copacetic.

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The problem is that any will can be contested, and leaving him out will give him a reason. But it will cost him money to contest it in court. If your will states, effectively, that he's "dead to me," you're going to piss him off. Then, he has a basis and an irrational emotional reason to fight the will. By leaving him some token amount, you can hopefully defuse the emotional desire to fight. He might will want to contest the will, but he'll be in a more reasonable state of mind when he evaluates the cost.

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supersnoop00 said:   The problem is that any will can be contested, and leaving him out will give him a reason. But it will cost him money to contest it in court. If your will states, effectively, that he's "dead to me," you're going to piss him off. Then, he has a basis and an irrational emotional reason to fight the will. By leaving him some token amount, you can hopefully defuse the emotional desire to fight. He might will want to contest the will, but he'll be in a more reasonable state of mind when he evaluates the cost.
  Yes and it's lawyers statements like below that give me pause and I don't care if I piss him off, he will be taught the lesson of his life!

~Contact us for a consultation if any of the following applies:    The will or trust was created before you were married and your spouse died before changing the will or trust.
    The will or trust was created before you were born and your parents died before changing the will or trust.
    Your parent or spouse expressly disinherited you from the will or trust.
    Your parent or spouse changed the will or trust and your share is reduced or eliminated in the new document.
    You and your ex-spouse have a disabled child but the ex-spouse died leaving all of his or her assets to the current spouse and nothing for the continuing care of the disabled child.
    Your ex-spouse has child support obligations but dies leaving all of his or her assets to the current spouse and nothing for the continuing care of the minor children. 

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LOOPHOLE said:   
defjukie said:   What could he have possibly done to you that you're completely ruling out the possibility of EVER forgiving him?
  He completely sided with his mother in the divorce, not just sided but gave her ammunition to help her by hacking in to my computer and email accounts, etc.  So aside from the emotional toll, he cost me tens of thousands of dollars unnecessarily. 
 


What do you mean by "unnecessarily"?  Honestly, you sound like a guy who was doing something shady to hide assets from your ex-wife, and now you want to punish your son for foiling your scheme.

 

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Troll needs way more effort very transparent.

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This is just a lot of drama...a 43 year old talking about disinheriting a child.  I got divorced a few years ago and my daughter describes what she sees to my ex in detail, she's a spy.  Am I overjoyed about it?  Of course not, I just plan ahead.

A lot of things will change between father and son over the next 40 years.  I wouldn't go the dramatic route by drawing up a new will.  Instead I'd take the boy for a walk and explain to him how things will go moving forward.  It's not about picking a side, but if he wants help from your side, he's going to have to treat you with respect.  If he's a little sh_t, don't help him with school or finding a job or whatever.  Life is a two way street.

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swandown said:   
LOOPHOLE said:   
defjukie said:   What could he have possibly done to you that you're completely ruling out the possibility of EVER forgiving him?
  He completely sided with his mother in the divorce, not just sided but gave her ammunition to help her by hacking in to my computer and email accounts, etc.  So aside from the emotional toll, he cost me tens of thousands of dollars unnecessarily. 


What do you mean by "unnecessarily"?  Honestly, you sound like a guy who was doing something shady to hide assets from your ex-wife, and now you want to punish your son for foiling your scheme.

 

  No, wasn't trying to hide any assets but when emails detailing divorce strategy, phone records, credit card statements, etc. get in the hands of the enemy, it costs you legal fees!

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LOOPHOLE said:   
swandown said:   
LOOPHOLE said:   
defjukie said:   What could he have possibly done to you that you're completely ruling out the possibility of EVER forgiving him?
  He completely sided with his mother in the divorce, not just sided but gave her ammunition to help her by hacking in to my computer and email accounts, etc.  So aside from the emotional toll, he cost me tens of thousands of dollars unnecessarily. 


What do you mean by "unnecessarily"?  Honestly, you sound like a guy who was doing something shady to hide assets from your ex-wife, and now you want to punish your son for foiling your scheme.

 

  No, wasn't trying to hide any assets but when emails detailing divorce strategy, phone records, credit card statements, etc. get in the hands of the enemy, it costs you legal fees!

  No offense but this kid sounds like a real shit

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The apple does not fall from the tree. You want to wrong him because he wronged you. You are a 43 year old baby whining because Your 18 year old child is not acting like an adult.

"Disinheriting an adult child" You are a vindictive parent who raised a vindictive kid and yet feel betrayed because Your kid is acting like his father. Funny

"He completely sided with his mother in the
divorce, not just sided but gave her ammunition
to help her by hacking in to my computer and
email accounts, etc. So aside from the
emotional toll, he cost me tens of thousands of
dollars unnecessarily."

Had your kid sided with you I guess you would be asking for creative ideas on giving your kid money and leaving him with a huge inheritance. You are Dirty Dirty as they come considering you are even hurting your grand kids who have nothing to do with your debacle. Man up punk it's only money you lost.

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kriskos4 said:   This is just a lot of drama...a 43 year old talking about disinheriting a child.  I got divorced a few years ago and my daughter describes what she sees to my ex in detail, she's a spy.  Am I overjoyed about it?  Of course not, I just plan ahead.

A lot of things will change between father and son over the next 40 years.  I wouldn't go the dramatic route by drawing up a new will.  Instead I'd take the boy for a walk and explain to him how things will go moving forward.  It's not about picking a side, but if he wants help from your side, he's going to have to treat you with respect.  If he's a little sh_t, don't help him with school or finding a job or whatever.  Life is a two way street.

 Of course I'm bitter, but his behavior is nothing but disrespectful to myself & my parents and he is enabling his mother by lying, (as an adult), to alienate me from his siblings, (minors). I could also die much sooner and I won't reward his behavior. To be honest I gave him a free pass on most of what he did, but this latest stunt by him is the final straw.

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LOOPHOLE said:   
kriskos4 said:   This is just a lot of drama...a 43 year old talking about disinheriting a child.  I got divorced a few years ago and my daughter describes what she sees to my ex in detail, she's a spy.  Am I overjoyed about it?  Of course not, I just plan ahead.

A lot of things will change between father and son over the next 40 years.  I wouldn't go the dramatic route by drawing up a new will.  Instead I'd take the boy for a walk and explain to him how things will go moving forward.  It's not about picking a side, but if he wants help from your side, he's going to have to treat you with respect.  If he's a little sh_t, don't help him with school or finding a job or whatever.  Life is a two way street.

 Of course I'm bitter, but his behavior is nothing but disrespectful to myself & my parents and he is enabling his mother by lying, (as an adult), to alienate me from his siblings, (minors). I could also die much sooner and I won't reward his behavior. To be honest I gave him a free pass on most of what he did, but this latest stunt by him is the final straw.

  Dude, not to pile on with the FWF therapy, but why don't you let some time pass before you make a move like this? If you feel the same way in 6 months, then do some real research on what steps to take. Asking here isn't going to gain you any positive benefit. You'll need to speak with an attorney.

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LOOPHOLE said:   No, wasn't trying to hide any assets but when emails detailing divorce strategy, phone records, credit card statements, etc. get in the hands of the enemy, it costs you legal fees!
This sounds like Jerry Springer nonsense.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you're marching to the beat of an attorney, who's peeked under your skirt, and knows precisely how much they can fleece you. I'm sure you've been led down the path of endless depositions, paid-for court transcripts, GAL's, psych evaluations, etc, etc...

All of this (coupled with your kids being used as unpaid private investigators) is painful and wrong, it has little or no bearing on the ultimate outcome. Most family court judges can see when a given party is playing the system, or using peasant shrewdness to gain an upper hand. The best you can hope for is that the assigned judge will recognize the pattern and scale their orders/judgments accordingly.

Think of it this way -- a divorce is an organized unwinding of a business relationship -- nothing more. Pulling emotion and its associated reaction into it has no place, and the judges know this.

Your knee-jerk reaction, while emotionally justified, will come to pass. I'd hold off on wasting any further money on proving a point that'll most likely never be heard. Today's nonsense will be a forgotten, distant memory years from now.
  

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Dad, is that you?

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LOOPHOLE said:   
defjukie said:   What could he have possibly done to you that you're completely ruling out the possibility of EVER forgiving him?
  He completely sided with his mother in the divorce, not just sided but gave her ammunition to help her by hacking in to my computer and email accounts, etc.  So aside from the emotional toll, he cost me tens of thousands of dollars unnecessarily. The icing on the cake came a few days a go when my lawyer forwarded me an email in which he completely fabricated a story in order to help his wretched mother get another BOGUS restraining order! The last one cost me $5,000 to get removed. He's also gotten a completely free vehicle. I gave the kid everything his entire life, but he's just like his mother, ungrateful to the nth degree!

  I get you are pissed - I would be too - but you need to be the mature adult in the matter.  Pursuing acts of vengeance against your son can only make you look bad to other members of the family, and it certainly won't help him grow up any faster when he sees his father descending to his level.

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I am quite a lot older than you.  When I look back on my life, my greatest regret is that I didn't figure out how to be more loving toward the people that I cared about.  I did try to be good to them.  But I could have done more if I had considered their feelings to a greater degree, and made the relationships a higher priority in my life.  Some have passed on, and I will never get the chance to show my love again.

I would counsel you to consider in your heart how you can be a loving father to all of your children.  Then in your old age, instead of having regrets, you can look back with happiness at the ways that you managed to be good to the people that you care about.  This isn't a matter of money.  It is love and caring -- even if the other person's behavior bothers you at the moment.  Consider also the example that you are setting for your children for their lives.

I would suggest that your will should divide up the money in what is normally considered to be a fair division of the funds.  Sometimes more will be reserved for a disabled child, but the siblings generally can understand that without hard feelings.  Something that you can do that is positive is to set up your will in a way that does not create hard feelings when you are gone.

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Geez, nothing constructive to say but I'm really sorry. Good luck.

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Your son may have done things that hurt you financially, but in his eyes he may have done them because he was looking to protect his mother. Who knows what she filled his head with.

He's still very young, and you are hurt and angry, just give it some time.

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OP should do what he wants to do. Its a two way street... being the bigger person, reaching out, higher priority... only works if it is mutual. No difference than the OPs divorce. We dont know whole story, but I read that OPs son hasnt spoken to him in two years.

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allerobed said:   Your son may have done things that hurt you financially, but in his eyes he may have done them because he was looking to protect his mother. Who knows what she filled his head with.

He's still very young, and you are hurt and angry, just give it some time.

  
going along these lines, maybe you figure out the root of why he's acting this way? maybe the ex is poisoning his mind or putting him in the guilt trip position where he feels he has no choice to be in a decent living position with the mom and siblings?  maybe its her vengeance that's really the problem?

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The quoteinvestigator web site has an interesting story.  I've heard versions of it through the years.  Here is one version that is sometimes (perhaps erroneously) attributed to Mark Twain.

"At the age of seventeen Mark says he thought his father the most ignorant man in all the world and just couldn’t stand him about. At the age of twenty-three he found that his father knew a few things and he could put up with him occasionally; at the age of twenty-seven he knew that his father was the smartest man in all the world and he just doted on having him about. There is a bit of psychology in this that is worthy our study."

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supersnoop00 said:   The problem is that any will can be contested, and leaving him out will give him a reason. But it will cost him money to contest it in court. If your will states, effectively, that he's "dead to me," you're going to piss him off. Then, he has a basis and an irrational emotional reason to fight the will. By leaving him some token amount, you can hopefully defuse the emotional desire to fight. He might will want to contest the will, but he'll be in a more reasonable state of mind when he evaluates the cost.
  About 40 years ago my grandfather died (before I was born).  He had a son from a prior marriage with whom he had a falling out and in his second marriage a daughter (my mom).  The story is that on the advice of his attorney he intentionally left a non-trivial token amount (maybe $500 or $1000, which was a lot more back then) for his estranged son so that he would not contest the will, the rest of his assets went to his wife (my grandmother).   My mom (who to my knowledge did not receive any money in the will) told me her half-brother did stop by the attorney's office to pick up the money, but he did not attend their father's funeral.  I'm not sure if he would have tried to contest the will had the token amount not been there.  

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All my best posts get deleted.

*sigh*

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dnickerson said:   Dad, is that you?
  Sorry Nicky but he is my dad!

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Call me crazy, but regardless of how much I may prefer one of my parents over the other, I wouldn't have hacked my dad's computer to provide my mother with divorce legal ammo unless my dad had done something really messed up like cheated at a Tiger Woods level.

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LOOPHOLE said:   
defjukie said:   What could he have possibly done to you that you're completely ruling out the possibility of EVER forgiving him?
  He completely sided with his mother in the divorce, not just sided but gave her ammunition to help her by hacking in to my computer and email accounts, etc.  So aside from the emotional toll, he cost me tens of thousands of dollars unnecessarily. The icing on the cake came a few days a go when my lawyer forwarded me an email in which he completely fabricated a story in order to help his wretched mother get another BOGUS restraining order! The last one cost me $5,000 to get removed. He's also gotten a completely free vehicle. I gave the kid everything his entire life, but he's just like his mother, ungrateful to the nth degree!

  he hates you because you spoiled him, leading him to believe that real life would be easy & fun.

if you had properly prepared him for adulthood, he would love & respect you for having given him the proper tools for the treacheries of the world.

instead, you fed him BS.  so now he's paying you back for the many ways in which you failed him.

Skipping 82 Messages...
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Getting revenge is worthless if it happens so many years in the future. Make a fake will that insults him and leaves him nothing, and send a copy to everyone. That alone would be enough revenge. Leave the real will alone.

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