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rated:
http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/29/pf/debt-collections/index.html?i... 
cnn money said: An estimated 1 in 3 adults with a credit history -- or 77 million people -- are so far behind on some of their debt payments that their account has been put "in collections."

That's a key finding from a new Urban Institute study.

It examined non-mortgage debt, including credit card bills, car loans, medical bills, child support payments and even parking tickets.
...
The debt in collections ranged from as little as $25 to a whopping $125,000. But the average amount owed was $5,200.
...
Among the states, Nevada had the highest percentage of residents with debt in collections -- 47% - as well as the highest average amount owed - $7,198. That was helped in part by the Las Vegas metro area, where 49% of residents had debt in collections. 
...
The study, conducted with Encore Capital Group, is based on a random sample of 7 million people's TransUnion credit files in 2013.


Damn, we got issues, son! Basically, according to the article*, every other person that lives in Vegas has a collections account or accounts. That is mind-boggling. I bet that doesn't include the money they owe to loan sharks, either.

*sample of 7 million TU files.

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Don't give them credit for a perfect understanding of English. Here is a key quote from the article, "The report did not... (more)

CreditCrunch (Aug. 03, 2014 @ 8:18p) |

Part of that may be affected by Appendix Figure A.1. That chart indicates they consider debt to be past due only prior ... (more)

IMBoring25 (Aug. 03, 2014 @ 10:03p) |

And how much of this is identity theft or synthetic identity fraud?

LorenPechtel (Aug. 04, 2014 @ 11:22a) |


rated:
I saw this headline and dismissed it.

The study, conducted with Encore Capital Group, is based on a random sample of 7 million people's TransUnion credit files in 2013.

I bet vast majority of these are phantom collections with small $ amount to people who doesn't check their report often and doesn't apply for credits on a regular basis.

Crap News Network.

rated:
ZenNUTS said:   I saw this headline and dismissed it.

The study, conducted with Encore Capital Group, is based on a random sample of 7 million people's TransUnion credit files in 2013.

I bet vast majority of these are phantom collections with small $ amount to people who doesn't check their report often and doesn't apply for credits on a regular basis.

Crap News Network.

  That maybe true. But I think one could still use this for comparative study (I am assuming all states were properly represented in the 7 million sample).
If you look at the graphic at the OP's link, the North/South difference stands out. The midwest and the Northeast fare better than most other regions.

rated:
More indicative of how shoddy the credit reporting system is.  Given the level of disregard that most creditors have for their collection paperwork  http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/problems-riddle-moves-to-... you have that high of incidence of errors on credit reports.   I have had major screw ups by Capitol One, JPMorgan Chase(I am still blacklisted there since they had to pay a $750k fine and $840K in restitution to the post office for miss use of presorted first class mail rates)and several others over the last 10 years.  The results are only as good as the data  and when you have garbage for data you have garbage for results.   What the valid numbers would be is any one's guess.  How many of you have had serious mistakes on your credit report and how hard has it been to correct.   My last one took 9 months and a letter to the Audit Committee of the corporation in question under Sarbanes Oxley to correct.

I normally run between 804 and 810 FICO but got knocked down twice in the last three years by lender mistakes to the high 600's.

rated:
Don't shoot the messenger. I thought it was an interesting (albeit possibly misleading) insight into consumer debt. I added that "7 million sampled TU reports" thing because I thought that gave a solid context to the article. Not to say the article is invalid; there has to be some truth to it. Maybe 33% of American adults aren't in collections, but I'd be willing to guess that 20% could be.

rated:
33% of Americans got a small medical bill that is now in collections.

Certainly Not News.

I'd like to know how many owe over $5000 or some other number, that would be more meaninful.

rated:
The actual source: http://www.urban.org/publications/413191.html

Only 5.3% are currently past due on a bill. "5.3 percent of people with a credit file have a report of past due debt, indicating they are between 30 and 180 days late on a nonmortgage payment"

So most of the people have old debts which could be up to 7 years old.

rated:
More details: "An alarming 35 percent of people with credit files have debt in collections reported in these file s . This percentage is nearly identical to results from a 2004 analysis of credit bureau data by the Federal Reserve, which found that 36.5 percent of people with credit report s had debt in collections reported in their file s (Avery et al. 2004). Note that consumers themselves may not realize they have debt in collections. Some consumers report becoming aware of this debt only when they review their credit report (CFPB 2013)"

Its nothing new, same % from 10 years ago. I bet a alot of people are not really aware of their credit report so not aware of the debts.

I wonder how much is due to the inaccuracy of the credit bureaus? Isn't there a pretty high rate of errors in the 5-25% range (depending on study)?

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nsdp said:   I normally run between 804 and 810 FICO but got knocked down twice in the last three years by lender mistakes to the high 600's.
  
nsdp what lenders are you getting in bed with or what screw ups are "their" fault? There are a lot of people on these forums that take out a lot more credit than you and they don't get issues twice in three years.

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wilkinru said:   33% of Americans got a small medical bill that is now in collections.

Certainly Not News.

I'd like to know how many owe over $5000 or some other number, that would be more meaninful.

  I mean...from my OP/the article:

The debt in collections ranged from as little as $25 to a whopping $125,000. But the average amount owed was $5,200.

The average is $5200. 
 

rated:
dshibb said:   
nsdp said:   I normally run between 804 and 810 FICO but got knocked down twice in the last three years by lender mistakes to the high 600's.
  
nsdp what lenders are you getting in bed with or what screw ups are "their" fault? There are a lot of people on these forums that take out a lot more credit than you and they don't get issues twice in three years.

  I've never had a single hard inquiry that wasn't due to myself applying for something, or a balance incorrect, or an unknown account, etc. I have over $350k of open credit lines, probably over 10 installment loans (vehicle, student loans, etc), a few charge cards, and some store cards on my reports. I have no idea how much my closed lines amount up to. I've been in bed with many lenders, but never anything sketchy; only local CUs apart from the mainstream guys (BoA, Chase, Penfed, NFCU, etc).

ETA: errr, sorry for the double post.

rated:
jaytrader said:   
wilkinru said:   33% of Americans got a small medical bill that is now in collections.

Certainly Not News.

I'd like to know how many owe over $5000 or some other number, that would be more meaninful.

  I mean...from my OP/the article:

The debt in collections ranged from as little as $25 to a whopping $125,000. But the average amount owed was $5,200.

The average is $5200. 

  

But that average would be skewed high by a small % of individuals with those $125,000 bills.

It would be more useful to know the median or what % of debts are above $1000 or above $10,000.

 

rated:
jaytrader said:   
wilkinru said:   33% of Americans got a small medical bill that is now in collections.

Certainly Not News.

I'd like to know how many owe over $5000 or some other number, that would be more meaninful.

  I mean...from my OP/the article:

The debt in collections ranged from as little as $25 to a whopping $125,000. But the average amount owed was $5,200.

The average is $5200. 

  lol.....did you really fall for that?

 do you really not know the difference between "average" and "weighted average"?  the latter is most likely MIA because it's too low for media sensationalism.

rated:
Sure it is. Why the heck are they not paying a "small" medical bill? I would be willing to bet a significant amount the majority of them spend more (and probably much more) than the "small" medical bill on wants every single month.

Yes, there is a lot of errors and problems with our current credit reporting system; but there is also a ton of deadbeats in our country.

rated:
boffsters said:   
jaytrader said:   
wilkinru said:   33% of Americans got a small medical bill that is now in collections.

Certainly Not News.

I'd like to know how many owe over $5000 or some other number, that would be more meaninful.

  I mean...from my OP/the article:

The debt in collections ranged from as little as $25 to a whopping $125,000. But the average amount owed was $5,200.

The average is $5200. 

  lol.....did you really fall for that?

 do you really not know the difference between "average" and "weighted average"?  the latter is most likely MIA because it's too low for media sensationalism.

  lol....i'm just quoting the article....

do you really not know that i didn't write the article????????????????????///111eleven

Be gone, with your condescending self.

rated:
KatoKrazy said:   Sure it is. Why the heck are they not paying a "small" medical bill? I would be willing to bet a significant amount the majority of them spend more (and probably much more) than the "small" medical bill on wants every single month.

Yes, there is a lot of errors and problems with our current credit reporting system; but there is also a ton of deadbeats in our country.

  pretty sure FICO recently changed its models to give little (or even no) weight to "small" collection accounts.
  if true, it would explain why many people aren't paying a "small" medical bill.

rated:
jaytrader said:   
boffsters said:   
jaytrader said:   
wilkinru said:   33% of Americans got a small medical bill that is now in collections.

Certainly Not News.

I'd like to know how many owe over $5000 or some other number, that would be more meaninful.

  I mean...from my OP/the article:

The debt in collections ranged from as little as $25 to a whopping $125,000. But the average amount owed was $5,200.

The average is $5200. 

  lol.....did you really fall for that?

 do you really not know the difference between "average" and "weighted average"?  the latter is most likely MIA because it's too low for media sensationalism.

  lol....i'm just quoting the article....

do you really not know that i didn't write the article????????????????????///111eleven

Be gone, with your condescending self.

  lol, why even lend credibility to an article that relies on something so blatantly misleading as a "simple average"?

rated:
wilkinru said:   33% of Americans got a small medical bill that is now in collections.

Certainly Not News.

I'd like to know how many owe over $5000 or some other number, that would be more meaninful.

 PROPAGANDA: 33% of American adults are in collections
 
WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR: 3.3% of American adults have a significant account in collections


 

rated:
jerosen said:   
jaytrader said:   
wilkinru said:   33% of Americans got a small medical bill that is now in collections.

Certainly Not News.

I'd like to know how many owe over $5000 or some other number, that would be more meaninful.

  I mean...from my OP/the article:

The debt in collections ranged from as little as $25 to a whopping $125,000. But the average amount owed was $5,200.

The average is $5200. 

  

But that average would be skewed high by a small % of individuals with those $125,000 bills.

It would be more useful to know the median or what % of debts are above $1000 or above $10,000.

 

  Indeed. If just 4% of those debts were around $125k, the other 96% would average around $200 each.

125,000 * .04 + 200 * .96 = 5,192

That would mean, roughly 1% of those with credit have a large (> 100k) bill. Sounds plausible.

rated:
wilkinru said:   33% of Americans got a small medical bill that is now in collections.

Certainly Not News.

I'd like to know how many owe over $5000 or some other number, that would be more meaninful.

  
If a large percentage of the population are debt beats who default on small obligations, what creditor in their right mind is going to loan them amounts larger than $5,000 and wait to find out what happens?
 

rated:
I am old schooled. I'll be perfectly happy if we operate like the 1920's where there is no credit score, no FICO score, no credit bureaus, etc. You can only spend what you have, i.e. you can't live beyond your means. How did the credit bureaus get so much power over us anyway?

rated:
boffsters said:   
KatoKrazy said:   Sure it is. Why the heck are they not paying a "small" medical bill? I would be willing to bet a significant amount the majority of them spend more (and probably much more) than the "small" medical bill on wants every single month.

Yes, there is a lot of errors and problems with our current credit reporting system; but there is also a ton of deadbeats in our country.

  pretty sure FICO recently changed its models to give little (or even no) weight to "small" collection accounts.
  if true, it would explain why many people aren't paying a "small" medical bill.

  That would be awesome. Now Everyman can fight a holy war against Verizon over an ETF or some local vendor over a dispute without their credit being held hostage,

rated:
Studies have shown that 98% of Americans have a statistical mean weighted average median preference for hearing alarming statistics in their news. Similar studies have shown that this same group is desperately short on the abilities to apply mathematics to real world situations and critical thinking skills.

OP -- Thanks for posting. These posts get us all thinking and bantering back and forth with each other. The result is an increase in FWF followers' ability to apply math to the real world and the ability to think critically. Just in case someone is wondering, yes, I'm serious, not sarcastic. (This paragraph only)

rated:
TravelerMSY said:   
boffsters said:   
KatoKrazy said:   Sure it is. Why the heck are they not paying a "small" medical bill? I would be willing to bet a significant amount the majority of them spend more (and probably much more) than the "small" medical bill on wants every single month.

Yes, there is a lot of errors and problems with our current credit reporting system; but there is also a ton of deadbeats in our country.

  pretty sure FICO recently changed its models to give little (or even no) weight to "small" collection accounts.
  if true, it would explain why many people aren't paying a "small" medical bill.

  That would be awesome. Now Everyman can fight a holy war against Verizon over an ETF or some local vendor over a dispute without their credit being held hostage,

  This.  A lot of those collections are probably poor billing, billing disputes, etc.  A lot of low dollar disagreements are probably just turned over to collections before they are sorted out, and it's hard to get a company's attention on resolving those.  I know I've had billing problems over a month's bill or less on things, and some of those have been quite difficult to get fixed.  It'd be easy for one to end up in collections while resolving it (actually one did - an AT&T bill when they signed me up for landline service, but did not actually offer any service in my area, despite their incorrect map allowing that) and then you have to dispute it every year or two apparently forever when it is resubmitted to the credit bureaus.  I keep the original letter from AT&T acknowledging the error, and copy it to mail in each time, but that would probably count in their numbers.  I'd be "in collections" for under $100 every time that pops back up, and if I weren't regularly pulling my credit report, I wouldn't know to dispute it again and get it removed, so it'd sit there until I moved and needed to buy a home or something.  It's easy to imagine a large percentage of the population having a billing disagreement at some point, rather than them all just refusing to pay some $25 bill.  There probably are a lot of deadbeats - but this is counting a whole lot more than just deadbeats.

rated:
[q=debentureboy;18606547 said: ]These posts get us all thinking and bantering back and forth with each other.

 
  Which was the exact point of me posting this--thanks for recognizing that. Unlike certain people in this thread, cough cough, you were able to comprehend the intent. Thanks again.

ETA: no idea why the quote box isn't working correctly, as it looks fine when I edit the post.

rated:
debentureboy said:    Similar studies have shown that this same group is desperately short on the abilities to apply mathematics to real world situations and critical thinking skills.
  This exactly. Alarmingly, I read somewhere that somewhere around half of all people (I forget the exact number) have below average ability to understand descriptive statistics...

rated:
It doesn't matter who did the report, the percentage is artificially high because there are a large number of "collections" items that are bogus collections - bills that were actually paid, bills that were disputed, bills that were fabricated. The 33% statistic is a side effect of the "90%+ of all credit reports contain errors" statistic ...

rated:
OneBread said:   I am old schooled. I'll be perfectly happy if we operate like the 1920's where there is no credit score, no FICO score, no credit bureaus, etc. You can only spend what you have, i.e. you can't live beyond your means. How did the credit bureaus get so much power over us anyway?
  You could live beyond your means in the good ole days..but lenders were more aggressive. 

rated:
itsus said:   
OneBread said:   I am old schooled. I'll be perfectly happy if we operate like the 1920's where there is no credit score, no FICO score, no credit bureaus, etc. You can only spend what you have, i.e. you can't live beyond your means. How did the credit bureaus get so much power over us anyway?
  You could live beyond your means in the good ole days..but lenders were more aggressive. 

  Like breaking kneecaps aggressive.

rated:
OneBread said:   I am old schooled. I'll be perfectly happy if we operate like the 1920's where there is no credit score, no FICO score, no credit bureaus, etc. You can only spend what you have, i.e. you can't live beyond your means. How did the credit bureaus get so much power over us anyway?
Credit existed in the 1920s, but -- with the exception of store tabs -- you wouldn't like the terms for the most part.

"Credit bureaus" in the 1920s were a bank loan officer sizing you up (not for a fight), and merchants talking about who got stiffed on their tab. People who recently moved, or looked or acted differently got treated poorly. I can guarantee you that women, and many racial, religious and ethnic minorities (where there weren't banks that catered to their communities) have it much better today.

rated:
To the 33%, a heartfelt THANK YOU!

YOU are the reason the banks give us juicy credit card sign-up bonuses. YOU are the reason so many products for the un-banked exist. YOU are the reason we can get MO everywhere.

Every person on FWF truly owes you a debt of gratitude!

rated:
All I know is someone with my same name and birthday in the same month and year is in collections. I get calls for him all the time. Now when I get a call I just tell them they have the wrong guy, the one they are looking for is up in Oregon.

rated:
brettdoyle said:   
wilkinru said:   33% of Americans got a small medical bill that is now in collections.

Certainly Not News.

I'd like to know how many owe over $5000 or some other number, that would be more meaninful.

  
If a large percentage of the population are debt beats who default on small obligations, what creditor in their right mind is going to loan them amounts larger than $5,000 and wait to find out what happens?

  it also saves those people from supporting the credit industry and subsidizing other's rewards, a win for those people. Support your own rewards.

rated:
Dshibb if you really must know one was the University of Texas System who didn't know that Justice Holmes opinion in Johnson v. Maryland, 254 U.S. 51 (1920) still applies to the State of Texas. Summons by the US Magistrate convinced them otherwise after they sent the citation to a collection agency. The second was as a co-signor for a nephew on his student loan which Sallie Mae screwed up under the Service Members Civil Relief Act of 2003. http://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/sallie-mae-military-studen... They continued to report the matter on my credit report after they signed the settlement with DOJ.

As to how much credit I have, I doubt you would know. Your shooting your mouth off and exposing your ignorance again. The loans involved with this patent http://www.archpatent.com/patents/8281590 are eight places to the left of the decimal point. I doubt you could get seven places to the left of the decimal point.

rated:
nsdp said:   Dshibb if you really must know one was the University of Texas System who didn't know that Justice Holmes opinion in Johnson v. Maryland, 254 U.S. 51 (1920) still applies to the State of Texas. Summons by the US Magistrate convinced them otherwise after they sent the citation to a collection agency. The second was as a co-signor for a nephew on his student loan which Sallie Mae screwed up under the Service Members Civil Relief Act of 2003. http://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/sallie-mae-military-studen...  They continued to report the matter on my credit report after they signed the settlement with DOJ.

As to how much credit I have, I doubt you would know. Your shooting your mouth off and exposing your ignorance again. The loans involved with this patent http://www.archpatent.com/patents/8281590 are eight places to the left of the decimal point. I doubt you could get seven places to the left of the decimal point.

  Get over yourself.

ETA: Seems kind of inefficient. Not only are you dealing with PV inefficiencies, but now you lose heat energy and potential energy by having to spin a turbine. Where are these deployed at the moment? As someone who works for one of the largest US solar owner/operators, this doesn't seem like a great idea. How is it any different than those molten salt plants that use a bunch of mirrors? If you were the guy who really holds the patent for that, you wouldn't be posting on FWF. Why? Because you'd have better things to spend your time on.

rated:
Grabbing some crackers and tea...

rated:
jaytrader said:   nsdp said:   Dshibb if you really must know one was the University of Texas System who didn't know that Justice Holmes opinion in Johnson v. Maryland, 254 U.S. 51 (1920) still applies to the State of Texas. Summons by the US Magistrate convinced them otherwise after they sent the citation to a collection agency. The second was as a co-signor for a nephew on his student loan which Sallie Mae screwed up under the Service Members Civil Relief Act of 2003. http://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/sallie-mae-military-studen...  They continued to report the matter on my credit report after they signed the settlement with DOJ.

As to how much credit I have, I doubt you would know. Your shooting your mouth off and exposing your ignorance again. The loans involved with this patent http://www.archpatent.com/patents/8281590 are eight places to the left of the decimal point. I doubt you could get seven places to the left of the decimal point.

  Get over yourself.

ETA: Seems kind of inefficient. Not only are you dealing with PV inefficiencies, but now you lose heat energy and potential energy by having to spin a turbine. Where are these deployed at the moment? As someone who works for one of the largest US solar owner/operators, this doesn't seem like a great idea. How is it any different than those molten salt plants that use a bunch of mirrors? If you were the guy who really holds the patent for that, you wouldn't be posting on FWF. Why? Because you'd have better things to spend your time on.
  

It provides the one thing solar can never provide and only synchronous wind turbines can provide Dynamic VARs thereby reducing I*2R losses. I have 22 of the Kyocera KD200-54's on my6 house for 2 1/2 years. Can you say Ohm's Law and parallel path. It also provides the ability to fill in drops and skim off peaks that would otherwise raise the inefficiency of thermal generation. It helps resolve the issue of the Duck Curve created by solar peaking at the wrong time. Look for http://www.caiso.com/documents/flexibleresourceshelprenewables_f... and http://www.caiso.com/documents/dr-eeroadmap.pdf. You would also be aware that there is a fundamental mismatch between solar peak and system peak as evidenced by issues at SMUD and Hawaii Electric.  Oh and you must work in marketing not engineering or theoretical design or you would understand the physics of the higher heating value of hydrogen. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1998/JamesDanyluk.shtml  You don't know how to do thermodynamics either.

As to where, Monongalia County, and if you are really as literate as you claim you already know the state.

rated:
Funny, I always thought they were "I^2 * R" losses ... I'd cut you some slack, but "*" is too far on the keyboard from "^" for it to be a typo.

rated:
jaytrader said:   
nsdp said:   Dshibb if you really must know one was the University of Texas System who didn't know that Justice Holmes opinion in Johnson v. Maryland, 254 U.S. 51 (1920) still applies to the State of Texas. Summons by the US Magistrate convinced them otherwise after they sent the citation to a collection agency. The second was as a co-signor for a nephew on his student loan which Sallie Mae screwed up under the Service Members Civil Relief Act of 2003. http://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/sallie-mae-military-studen...  They continued to report the matter on my credit report after they signed the settlement with DOJ.

As to how much credit I have, I doubt you would know. Your shooting your mouth off and exposing your ignorance again. The loans involved with this patent http://www.archpatent.com/patents/8281590 are eight places to the left of the decimal point. I doubt you could get seven places to the left of the decimal point.

  Get over yourself.

ETA: Seems kind of inefficient. Not only are you dealing with PV inefficiencies, but now you lose heat energy and potential energy by having to spin a turbine. Where are these deployed at the moment? As someone who works for one of the largest US solar owner/operators, this doesn't seem like a great idea. How is it any different than those molten salt plants that use a bunch of mirrors? If you were the guy who really holds the patent for that, you wouldn't be posting on FWF. Why? Because you'd have better things to spend your time on.

  

I don't believe he has anything to do with the linked patent, either.
(I also question whether he is actually a lawyer, at all, for how careless he is with his homophones and grammar)

But I disagree with your explicit reasoning.  Rich people get bored just like the rest of us, and I suspect a subset of them feel the need to waggle their e-peen around on a regular basis.

Skipping 21 Messages...
rated:
And how much of this is identity theft or synthetic identity fraud?

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