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No, this is not a plee for get-rich quick schemes. I have a graduate degree and am doing work I love, but the field I am in is not financially lucrative. I am really tired of being poor, and I want to know what, historically, has been the best way to become wealthy. Everyone relates how most of the rich became wealthy with Real Estate, but one needs money to make money with real estate. Same goes with investments. Daytrading seems top risky, and I've yet to meet someone who hasn't lost their shirt doing it. That leaves starting a business, or inventing an idea/product as the remaining legitimate ways to become wealthy (leaving out career fields which require extensive schooling, e.g. medicine). Anyways, I want to hear personal stories about making it big with little cash. Share!

lottery

well either state lotterys or the nba draft lottery.. either would work...

deleted by accident

No easy way to get rich ....

Work smart -- take some risks...

Hope for luck....

Zwan said:

<< I have a graduate degree and am doing work I love, but the field I am in is not financially lucrative. I am really tired of being poor >>


There's little relationship between the two. Sounds like you have more problems that you may be aware of.

trees

<winking at cga>

<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>

'making it big w/ little cash'

i learned there is no such thing. it takes money to make money. thats why the poor stays poor and the rich gets richer.

wow, great topic, wonder why no one thought of it sooner.

We really could do with a little less sarcasm around here...why waste your time post anything if you're simply going to be snide? This is a perfectly valid topic, well suited for the forum, and Zwan is asking for stories, not an infallible formula.


Zwan, I don't have any great stories, but I can say that real estate will be a big part of our plan--and it didn't take much money to start. Tough to give more specifics without knowing the details of your situation and market, but don't be deterred by not having a lot of cash up front.

Another point would be to build up gradually. By using things like Roth IRA accounts, esp with the gov't matching funds for modest income folks, a little diligent savings can grow into quite a nest egg. Yes, this gratification is deferred, but can amount to a nice chunk of change while still young enough to enjoy it.

With your graduate degree, you might consider moonlighting as a tutor or consultant. That can be an excellent way to earn some extra cash with little or no overhead, and it can be ramped up or down as your circumstances dictate.

Real estate is a good way to go, but it is hard work.

One thing it is not is cash intensive. If you can come up with a purchase where you're picking up a house for 70% of fair market value, there are many, many sources that will fund your purchase.

Wells Fargo has a unit that will give you the purchase money, give you the money to fix up the place, and give you the money to make payments for 6 months as the place is being rehabbed.

There are hard money lenders who will charge you about 3% of the money you borrow as a set-up fee, and then 1% per month.

These lenders don't care what your FICO is, or what your income is, they're lending on the property, not on your ability to repay. A few won't even ask you to fill out a credit app. As long as you hit that 70% mark, you're in business.

Needless to say the key is finding someone willing to walk away from 30% of FMV. Well they're out there. We just bought a condo for $115k, 10K in fix up costs and 3 weeks later it's under contract for over $170k. The seller knew the value of the place, the unit next door had just sold for $165k, and another unit several doors down sold for a similar amount. But the place was in shambles, and more importantly he had decided to move his family to Las Vegas, now! These situations are more common than you'd think. Not everyone hits FW everytime they purchase something over $50. The world is full of people who value expediency and a seemingly quick fix over a few extra bucks.

My personal story is that I was in a very glamerous, creative, extremely well paying profession. But I got burned out and jaded. Since then I started playing more in real estate. I'm not making the money I was before, but I'm making enough and enjoying it more.

I'd make more, but a bad habit I got into in my previous line of work dogs me to this day, and that is that I'm pretty lazy. If I were to put in 20 solid hours a week, I'd probably clear more than I did back in the day. Investing in real estate is not brain surgery, it's really pretty simple to learn enough to get started, but it does take a bit of dedication. I will admit that I had quite a bit of cash to start with, which didn't make things that much easier, but it did allow me to clear more on each deal. But the extra amount I made with my own cash versus what I would have made with no cash is not that significant. So you make $40k instead of $35k. Do just one more deal a year and clearly the net result is even.

In fact there are benefits to working with a hard money source. These guys know what they're doing, and if you find yourself in a marginal deal, or one with hidden flaws, the lender will most likely see the danger and warn you off the mistake. I know several very busy and successful investors who still use OPM for all their deals. It's a habit and a game to them.

Again the rough part is finding motivated sellers, if you find one it's easy to get a more seasoned investor to step in and see you through the deal for a share of the profits. Find a local real estate investment group and go make some contacts.

So the bottom line is, yes people make serious money with creative real estate, and no, you don't need a lot of upfront cash.

Max and DH have made excellent comments, and I agree with their posts, having much of the same experiences. (BTW Max I share your outlook on work! )

The one thing no one has thus far mentioned is the MOST IMPORTANT thing, and that is TO LIVE FRUGALLY. That is how you will become wealthy, and NO OTHER WAY.

How much you earn really is irrelevant - what matters is how much you SPEND. Make it a goal to reduce it as much as possible. There have been past threads in this forum discussing this and some families spend less than $400/month for all necessities.

I know a doctor who makes over $250k/year yet "barely gets by" and has over $100k in CC debt in addition to house /car loans. Whats the use of making that kind of money if you are spending every penny and then some? You arent any better off than someone making $20k per year.

Cut the spending down as close to 0 as possible. Chances are you already have all the material items you need in life. Stop buying (unless its free after rebate or can be resold for profit) No new cars, no expensive clothes, no latest computer, etc. If you cant cut spending out of your budget, you will never be rich. As people earn more money, they tend to spend more money. This does not lead to wealth building.

Zwan said:

<< I have a graduate degree and am doing work I love, but the field I am in is not financially lucrative. I am really tired of being poor >>



I think DeGlass has a point. How can you claim that you love your job but hate the pay. Compensation is a big part of your job. If your job forces you to moonlight or take a second job to make ends meet then maybe you are wrong thinking that you like your job that much.

I also think that both day trading and real estate is not for everybody and requires certain qualities that we don't all have.

On a more constructive tone I have found that consulting and teaching are great source of income (more than my main line of work) without too much work.

I agree with you SIS. But its usually the little woman who puts you out of the prospect of living frugally. My girl, she is not out of control or anything, but she loves to decorate and accessorize the house. I invest in real estate to get ahead (and for the borrowing power =(

dgtop said:

<< I agree with you SIS. But its usually the little woman who puts you out of the prospect of living frugally. My girl, she is not out of control or anything, but she loves to decorate and accessorize the house. I invest in real estate to get ahead (and for the borrowing power =( >>



if the "little woman" is not helping the family unit but causing a financial burden, then maybe she should contribute to the financial wellbeing of the family....have her turn her decorating interest into a profitable venture instead of a money-leeching hobby

dgtop said:

<< I agree with you SIS. But its usually the little woman who puts you out of the prospect of living frugally. My girl, she is not out of control or anything, but she loves to decorate and accessorize the house. I invest in real estate to get ahead (and for the borrowing power =( >>


That's quite a general statment to make..."usually the little woman"?!? I certainly don't agree with you at all, and I'm hoping that there are others who support me. I am the "little woman" in my relationship, here's a quick summary of my activities and attributes:
I make more money
I budget the money
I plan the savings for our money
I do not decorate nor do I accessorize
We live frugally because of my money mangagement, if it were up to my S.O., we wouldn't have a cent in the bank! He'd be getting a new truck every year and we'd be eating out every night.

"I also think that both day trading and real estate is not for everybody and requires certain qualities that we don't all have."

Just curious what qualities you're thinking of.

SIS brings up a critical point about spending. The key is to live beneath your income. I think we've all read the news stories about the janitor, security guard, or public school teacher who donates a fortune to their favorite charity. Everyone is amazed that they had that much wealth, and the articles usually detail that the secret was their expenses were less than their income.

I was blessed, or cursed, with parents who lived in occupied countries during WWII, and immigrated to the states with 2 kids and the shirts on their back, blah, blah, blah. They both had a survival mentality and were frugal because it was that or starve. To this day I still think that having Coke in the fridge instead of Kool-Aid is a treat. So I grew up seeing the importance of budgeting and that living richly was about attitude, not spending.

Sadly our society does not teach moderation, sacrifice, and the wisdom of personal financial planning.

The last time I saw figures on the net worth of the average American, it was scary:

-1/3 of Americans have no, or negative, financial assets.
-1/2 have less than $1,000 of investible assets.
-Only 55% have enough assets to tide them over 3 months without a job.

Unlike my background, MsMojo was raised with domestic help and an open pocket book; until we married she didn't know that the price of a car was negotiable! Fortunately she's not into shopping or materialism, realizes that what you are matters way more than what you have, and was open to learning about the FatWallet way of life. For those of you not yet married, as far as your long term financial well being, and the success of your marriage, I think that choosing a mate (male or female!) who shares a healthy financial view is as important as the career you choose, probably more so.

Had to jump in and philosophize a bit on this topic as well. Because I understand the intent of the original poster is strictly about $$ - quick hitter big money, I won't be long.

There have been many studies done. People with less money often value their relationships and family much much more. A fun birthday party for a kid with no money is family getting together singing over a box of betty crocker cake and a generic half gallon of neopolitan ice cream.

People with more spending power (notice, not necessarily the same as wealth) often value material things much more. Their kid is not content with the brithday part unless they have a circus, elaborate surroundings, and lots of new toys.

People who put material things in front of family, friends, and personal relationships often die lonely with big bank accounts. The first key to quick and true wealth is to ask yourself what is really important to you.

Is there any recommended starters kit for real estate investing. I have always wanted to ask SIS and a couple of you guys in the real estating thing. In terms of buying and leasing apartments, how does this work. Do I have to get a management company to manage the properties or not?

One way to get information on investing in Real Estate is to get the fininacial guru's tapes. ie. Carlton Sheets. You can probably get these from your local library. Real Estate is the way to get rich but you should know what your doing. Read everything you can and absorb it all. Your local library should be a good resource and if you find a book there you love, buy it.

There are several threads that deal with managing units, and there are several ways to go. Landlording is not for everyone.

Your library will have books on how to get started in CRE (creative real estate, as opposed to retail real estate). Pick up a few of those and digest them. If after reading them you decide that you want to hop into the game or just want more info, seek out and attend a local CRE investor group.

At some point you may wish to attend a CRE course offered by one of the "gurus." DO NOT spend hundreds of dollars on one of these until you've done the book/investor group thing.

For lots more free info go to http://www.creonline.com, a fantastic resource.

BTW A great way to start, especially if you're currently a renter, is to buy a duplex, live in one side and rent out the other. That's how I started.

Zwan: Thank you for starting this discussion thread.

There isn't a universally-observed definition of "being poor". Many consumer-oriented Americans would classify "being poor" as being heavily in debt with credit cards, automotive loans, consumer installment loans, student loans, excessive mortgage debt associated with "cash-out" refinances to "pay off" previous CC balances, ad nauseum.

The majority of Americans would be immensely happier, and not whining as much about "being poor", if they would make some adjustments in their spending and borrowing habits. I could probably learn some good frugality tips from others on this board; already it has had the effect that I decided NOT to purchase a brand-new car and instead keep two old, paid-off high-mileage cars (two insurances, but much less expensive overall for my needs).

Here are examples of lifestyle habits which could be modified to reduce your day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month personal cost of living:

1. Reduce the number of times you dine outside of your home. It's so easy to eat out, and when you first glance at the menu it doesn't seem all that expensive....but the tab adds up fast when you add an entree, a beverage, dessert, tax and tip. What would happen to your personal spending if your "eating out" were reduced by half - would your lifestyle really be that affected, or might you appreciate those "dining out" occasions as being more of a "special treat"?

2. (SN's favorite) Cancel your long-distance telephone service and rely on prepaid long-distance calling cards. Cards from places such as Costco Wholesale reduce your per-minute cost to 3 cents a minute or less, PLUS you are paying-as-you go, which means there is NO big surprise long-distance bill at the end of the month.

3. Do you really gotta have cable TV? If you are using the Internet heavily and also frequently watch films via VCR or DVD, do you really get your money's worth from the monthly cable bill? If you genuinely need cable - particularly if you are in a situation like me with extremely poor rabbit-ears reception - reduce your cable service from the "expanded basic" level down to "basic" level. You will miss many cool cable networks but your monthly bill might drop from $40/month ($480/year) to $15/month ($180/year)...and you can still watch David Letterman, Saturday Night Live, Dan Rather, and other broadcast stuff. In my local cable system, my "stripped basic" $15/month service includes all the local TV stations, Northwest Cable News, Discovery, Hallmark, C-SPAN and CBC British Columbia (aka "Hockey Night In Canada" - total of 35 channels; not bad for a modest $15/month.

Here's to a richer, fatter wallet for all of us!

SIS, Mojo, SN are right on -- frugality is the way to wealth, no matter how high your income is. If you think of your income as financial offense, then how much you spend becomes your financial defense. You have to play good offense AND good defense to win the game.

There's a reason for all those frugality cliches: "watch the pennies and the pounds take care of themselves", "a penny saved is a penny earned", etc. They are true.

As for significant others: MsProng was also non-frugal when we first married, but after reading many books and WANTING to change, and realizing our future happiness was in jeopardy, she really has become a great defensive player. Better than me, in fact. So don't feel that the situation is hopeless if your S.O. is currently a money sink.

Has anyone read the book "The Millionaire next door" ? by Thomas Stanley? That book shaped a lot of my thoughts about wealth and spending.
He mentioned the concept of offense and defense in wealth, basically try to make a good living and live below your means, and also become financially literate.
Just my two cents..

Nice to see this thread taking on a more constructive tone--many worthy comments here.

The frugality point is just huge. One doesn't have to be a miser, enjoying nothing, to make money go further. Someone should start a thread (if there isn't one already) on their favorite tips for saving money without hardship. Edit: I do notice there's nothing in the FAQ on this, perhaps I'll start one.


Max is right on about real esate being easy to get into if the buying is done carefully, and the creonline recommendation.

Real estate is not at all like day-trading. Someone with the discipline to be organized, to buy carefully, and to stay on top of periodic (but rarely burdensome) paperwork can get into real estate projects that will make big money.

(Which reminds me of another RE angle: buy an abused, filthy house with a solid foundation in a decent neighborhood, then fix it up. After living in it for 2 years, you can sell it and keep $250K in gains ($500K if married) TAX FREE. No renting or landlording involved, just a willingness to move periodically and put a little work into your home.)

Another way to live below your means is to never buy a new car. Buy used, take care of it, make it last a long, long time. Find a good, inexpensive mechanic. Don't get maintenance or repairs at a dealership. Avoid car dealerships like the plague....unless you're getting a $75.00 gift certificate for doing a test-drive.

My own personal money pit is dance/fitness classes: ballet, jazz, yoga, bellydance. I need a way to write off dance classes as a medical expense <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>. Especially bellydance, those are between $12 and $15 each. Tho from what I've seen my monthly tab still comes out less than a health club membership, those things seem like a huge rip-off to me.

Zwan: You are already rich because you enjoy your work. It doesn't matter if you don't make much at it. If you enjoy what you are doing, you are a happier/healthier person. I speak from experience. I hated the job I did for 15 years and took a buy out package as soon as one was offered. My husband loves his job and has been doing it for 37 years with no plans to retire. He could retire but chooses to keep doing what he loves.

Do all the things others have suggested here and make frugality a hobby.

I agree with tabelard about the benefits of enjoying your work. And yes, it is possible to love your job but hate your pitiful little salary - if you think about it, many enjoyable jobs are less well-compensated just because there are so many people who think (or know) that it's a fun, glamorous or exciting profession. In my field, the pay is generally quite low but my boss always has a foot-high stack of resumes. At some point, however, you have to either jump ship for something more financially rewarding (and boring)or make peace with the idea that you're in a low-paid field and either find other ways to make money or adjust your expectations of how much money you will have.

The very best advice is to stay out of debt, with cutting spending as a close second. Tragically, I see many retire from my field having never planned for the time when that paycheck isn't there.

dgtop said:

<< I agree with you SIS. But its usually the little woman who puts you out of the prospect of living frugally.... >>



I have to agree with Jazz hands. That is a totally unfair, and not true, stereo type. I know just as many men as women who poorly and foolishly spend their money. My own brother can't keep a dime in the bank. I, however, have always been careful with my money. You might need to rethink some of your stero-types.

That being said, I agree with all others that the number one step is BEING FRUGAL. Check out the thread on that for some great ideas. A key point I haven't seen yet would be accountability, esp. if you are not good with being frugal on your own. I don't make a single purchase over about $10 without talking with my husband first. Same goes for him. Don't make purchases on the fly.

Secondly, as others have mentioned, you may just need an adjustment on your priorities. Honestly, my hubby and I don't make all that much $$$. But we're a LOT happier than a lot of people who do. I feel rich b/c my life is rich in so many other things. Also, I know that we have a skewed view of wealth in America. The tiny one-bedroom we live in (and are very thankful for) would be a luxury in many countries. Help someone out who has a lot less than you, and you will see how rich you really are.

Finally, I always encourage thinking outside of the box. In a job where you like the work but it doesn't pay well? Have a "brainstorming" session with several friends and try to come up with some alternatives that would let you continue to do similar things but in a better paying situation. Or like DH suggested, supplement your income with something like tutoring, which is great pay for the time invested. I used to do that in college. Not only did I work part-time, but I also spent several hours a week tutoring. That way, the $$$ I made from my job went into savings, etc., and I used only the tutoring money for my weekly expenses like eating out, movies, etc.

Heres my story,

4 years ago I was over 30k in debt, making good money and either partying it away or just spending it on something I didnt need. Then I met the woman of my dreams and decided that if I wanted to start a family I needed to calm down and start saving. So I called up USAA and had them start taking my max out each month(dollar cost averaging) for a Roth IRA (some years regular IRA if I made to much) then a extra 50 for a money market account, and 50 into a regular mutual fund. I started reading books on investing and dabbling in the market. I realized that in order to make alot in investing you had to own alot of shares to make it worth your while(for quick money). So I took 500 dollars and lost most of it the first year in penny stocks, the second year I took the remaining money and traded over 400k that year and made over a 100k after taxes. I paid off all my bills, built a new house, and got married to the woman who started me thinking. I am still mostly debt free, and the IRA and mutual have grown pretty good over the years. I am lucky that my Wife is very frugal, was raised on a farm where they only bought soap and other nacesties(SP), their mother made their clothes, lived off the farm animals and garden.

I now keep my bills so I can live off of unemployment if need be(I am a electrican so work can be seasonal) and we are happy. I love what I do, some in the field hate it, it is all in how you look at it, and what your personal outlook is on life. I am the boss at work, and make the conditions very good for my guys, in turn they come to work everyday and get alot done.

I haven't done it yet, but know someone who has. He trolled bottom-feeder OTC stocks, dumped 5k in each he found he liked(we're talkin stocks that sell for half of a penny-a million shares more or less) and kept doing so. One happened to go from .0041 (his buy in) to over $150 in 4 months. Do the math. He doesn't trade anymore...

I might add that real estate 'could' be considered more of a risk due to the recent runup in prices across the US. YMMV

Another idea might be to wait until Ben is kicked to the curb and then zero in on J-Lo. Although, I would be forthright with her about not being interested in a prenup...

hmmm. if you buy a million shares. and once it goes to 150 and you need to sell it, you will be able to move prices like no tommorow - if he sold a million shares all in one shot, he wouldve brought the price down to sub-75 (i assume there is no float).

im not sure how feasible such a strategy is

ekote said:

<< I haven't done it yet, but know someone who has. He trolled bottom-feeder OTC stocks, dumped 5k in each he found he liked(we're talkin stocks that sell for half of a penny-a million shares more or less) and kept doing so. One happened to go from .0041 (his buy in) to over $150 in 4 months. Do the math. He doesn't trade anymore... >>


I saw on the news that somebody won $16M state lotto last Saturday. She only spent one dollar. She doesn't work anymore...

Marry rich and make sure you don't sign the prenup.

Whaaaaat? .0041 to $150 in 4 months? Care to say what's the stock symbol?

ekote said:

<< I haven't done it yet, but know someone who has. He trolled bottom-feeder OTC stocks, dumped 5k in each he found he liked(we're talkin stocks that sell for half of a penny-a million shares more or less) and kept doing so. One happened to go from .0041 (his buy in) to over $150 in 4 months. Do the math. He doesn't trade anymore... >>


Azurik said:

<< Whaaaaat? .0041 to $150 in 4 months? Care to say what's the stock symbol?

ekote said:

<< I haven't done it yet, but know someone who has. He trolled bottom-feeder OTC stocks, dumped 5k in each he found he liked(we're talkin stocks that sell for half of a penny-a million shares more or less) and kept doing so. One happened to go from .0041 (his buy in) to over $150 in 4 months. Do the math. He doesn't trade anymore... >>

>>



I think that one was PUMA, it was sub pennies and went big after a reverse split(not many survive a RS). ECNC went from .05 to 20 dollars a share in a matter of a few weeks. There were numerous stocks that went up over 10,000% in no time at all. I am still kicking myself for not buying more of ECNC went it went big, and selling off a big chunk when it hit a dollar)


PS, I am not sure if I can write stock symbols here, if I can't please delete them of PM me and I will, but dont delete this thread for it.

"I might add that real estate 'could' be considered more of a risk due to the recent runup in prices across the US. YMMV"

Partially true.
- True if you buy wrong and hold.
- Could be true or false if you buy right and hold.
- Wrong if you buy right and flip.

If you buy units at a good discount there's a good chance you'll survive a market downturn. But I would be careful buying holds in many markets, especially novices.

However if you buy at 70% of market less repairs and flip there's almost no way to lose due only to a market downturn. The RE market is not like the stock market. Wall street can have a bad day and lose 20% in 8 hours. The housing market is like a huge boat, it don't turn on a dime. Any downturn will be preceeded by a slow down and tappering off. If you flip you should be able to get your property back on the market in 60 days or way less.

Buy it right, do a quick rehab, price it right and there's no way to lose.

Personally I'm praying for a housing bubble burst. With a strong market it's difficult to pick up a good deal. Owners, even if they're in financial trouble, are aware of how hot the market is and they have many options to bail them out.

In a bad market they're far more likely to panic sell. Way more opportunities for a sharp buyer.

"But wait," you say. "doesn't that mean that you'lll lose money because you won't be able to sell it for a lot?" No.

In a down market sellers are way more motivated to make a deal and will sell for a far larger discount than the percentage of overall price drop.

In this hot market it's tough to find owners who need to sell at 70% of market. In a down market it will be far easier to find sellers willing to settle for 40 - 50% of market. True, the overall market price will be lower, but the deal purchase price will be even lower yet.

ekote said:

<< I haven't done it yet, but know someone who has. He trolled bottom-feeder OTC stocks, dumped 5k in each he found he liked(we're talkin stocks that sell for half of a penny-a million shares more or less) and kept doing so. One happened to go from .0041 (his buy in) to over $150 in 4 months. Do the math. He doesn't trade anymore... >>

Which stock was this? I'm interested in the story behind the move. Not interested in buying.

If you don't want to post it, send me a PM.

Black-mail, hush money, or more appropriately stated, The Settlement;
You would be surprised how much people will pay to protect themselves from
their own stupidity, just get the right "dirt" and the sky's the limit, of course this is an art form all its own & timing, along with the appropriate "pressure" applied, is everything & will net the greatest results. I'll never forget the moment I was handed the pen and told to determine my own "paycheck", I laughed all the way to the bank and I'm
still laughing!
<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>

Skipping 66 Messages...
Case in point:

I am surviving with my wife and 2 kids on $1000/mo income. Now, we have upward mobility and I expect in no more than 3-6 mos our situation will improve (at least a 50% income increase, if not more). Rent is $495, so a dangerously high 1/2 of income...

Yet, in Oct and Nov, without any significant windfalls, we have saved up $300 (Having $0 at the beginning of Oct).

(Of course our car needs serious repair soon and Christmas is upon us - but the latter will not require much)

We have short and long-term goals worked out, and if there is an increase in income our expenses are NOT set to increase, only the amount we can save. We therefore see this bleak period as an opportunity to evaluate what is truly needed.

It can be done.

I know someone who makes 10 times what I am currently making, credit maxed out, I believe less than 10-20% equity in his home (do to Equity loans, repeated mortgages - not figureing the rapidly falling market in hte area) and is hoping to retire in 3-5 years....

However, what do I do with what I can hang onto?

RE in this area (Kalamazoo, MI) is horrible - Pfizer bought out Pharmacia, and sent employees packing. In august alone, 9,300 new Unemployment claims. Houses are being sold and $10 to $20K below appraisal, and still on the market. This and a Bankruptcy in Feb '03 keeps me out of the RE market for now - there is no demand, and I have no capital or credit.

Currently I still have an optionsXpress account that has a MM sweep at 2%, no fees and ACH transfer in/out.

I have found an excel-type telecom comapany that does not charge to register as a rep, and pays residual commission on LD, ISP services you sell - but is this a worthwhile investment of time and effort (And some marketing $$$) given my situation, or am I overlooking other investment opportunities?



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