American Express Financial Review: experiences & strategies of FW members (was my crisis, accounts re-opened)

Mod: thank you for reopening this thread!

All: this is a VERY DIFFERENT incident from the one in the lowering AMEX credit thread. There, we were worried about lines getting too large and AMEX cracking down. Here, ironically, the allegation is that a BUSINESS LINE (not CC) wasn't large enough (since when does a business line not get paid up and down all the time...?)

I will be calling AMEX ASAP, hopefully tomorrow, to get to the bottom of this. What I'd very much appreciate in the meantime is any experience, links, advice, useful contact people, etc. for resolving this as amicably and quickly as possible. TIA!

And in the meantime, I suggest we DON'T PRE-PAY and spend over your limit with Amex, EVEN IF IT'S AN LOC!!!

I read about a similar problem with AMEX... wish I could find the thread. The end result is that the issue was not resolved to the satisfaction of the customer.

mephisto, thanks for the helpful data point. It suggests the initial claim is all the more implausible.

Crazytree, do you mean a thread other than the one the moderator linked?

Palador, your explanation certainly makes more sense than what I was told, and is consistant with mephisto's experience.

I'm now home, and spent the first 10 minutes combing the complete terms of the card. It's available at http://www.dhanson.net/Amex-tou.pdf for anyone who's interested. The most germaine passage says,

<< You may send us more than the minimum payment, pay us before the payment is due, pay more than once a month, or pay off your balance entirely without any prepayment penalty. You may not however, pay us with a check drawn against your Account or any other account issued by us. >>

How I was supposed to interpret this agreement as prohibiting my conduct is beyond me--especially when it's issued to a real-estate business in the first place, which will often have high-dollar transactions by its very nature.

Also irritating but unsurprising: no one will ever communicate with you in writing on stuff like this. I asked if they would send their request in writing, and was told they would send something, but it would say "you need to call us" and that's it.

I had a similar situation with my AMEX Starwood card. We put an auto down-payment on the card (for the points) and did an online payment that night for the whole amount. A week later (still same billing cycle) my card gets declined for dinner (very embarrasing). I am pissed because at this point the card actually had no balance at all. I call AMEX and they say that I used up my limit for that billing cycle and it didn't matter what my balance was. I had to put the card away for a week until it could be used again.

You would think they would offer to raise the limit but didn't...thanks AMEX

nhokt said:

<< I had a similar situation with my AMEX Starwood card. We put an auto down-payment on the card (for the points) and did an online payment that night for the whole amount. A week later (still same billing cycle) my card gets declined for dinner (very embarrasing). I am pissed because at this point the card actually had no balance at all. I call AMEX and they say that I used up my limit for that billing cycle and it didn't matter what my balance was. I had to put the card away for a week until it could be used again.

You would think they would offer to raise the limit but didn't...thanks AMEX >>


I hate their stupid spending limit policy...because amazon.com canceled an order for $500+ and that counts against my spending limit for the month even though Amazon credited the amount back to my card. In Amex's eyes it's already been used. UGH.

So even though my limit is $4000 and I only have $500 in actual charges, the stupid card only shows $2500 in remaining credit. I don't even know what other charges they're tabbing in their head but it's horrible that they're doing this...I think they counted a refund I got from COMPUSA towards my limit. How this makes sense to them is beyond me.

DaveHanson said:

<< So then, do you see the threat as an empty one, that should have been ignored? Or would you just run the risk that they'd cut you off? >>

Was there a balance outstanding when they called? Or was it paid down? I;m guessing there was a balance...and at any rate, I would pay it down to 0 before calling in!

I wouldnt necessarily describe their call as an empty threat, but a flag probably popped up and they started their procedure: "contact the client, request docs, freeze lines, etc"...I would have just paid the line down. I think that would have solved the problem and the further steps would have dropped off the "to do" list. I know how employees are soooo lazy and just hate to have to do things such as follow up, generate a letter, etc., and paying it down likely would have averted further action. I dont think theyd cut me off...but now youre on "step 3" of their program, instead of step 1...

Good luck and keep us posted..

My experience with prepaying AMEX cards and exceeding the CL is that officially (i.e. if you speak to a CSR) they don't allow it, but the computer lets it through in certain cases. In DH's case the amount may have been large enough to attract somebody's attention.

Thanks for the replies all.

SIS, thanks for clarifying. There was an outstanding balance, around $19K. If I had had the capacity to pay it down online before calling in, I probably would have, except that it honestly didn't occur to me what they were calling about. I do have a BT in progress that will effectively pay it down shortly...

I can certainly see why my case attracted attention if this is a prohibition of theirs. And, while AMEX never said anything in writing about this, other threads here did warn us that such behavior wasn't tolerated on their credit cards. But it just didn't occur to me that a line of credit would act this way. I feel a little stupid about not guessing this might happen anyway--I was trying to pull off both a BT and a RE close, and wasn't thinking about it--too used to the way EVERY OTHER LOC I've ever used behaves!

The unfortunate thing here is that AMEX LOC would otherwise be PERFECT for quickly accessing BTs. Virtually every CC will BT to AMEX electronically, so it's painless. Then, checks allow you to redeploy the BT proceeds immediately. But clearly it should only be done in doses small enough to steer clear of their rule.


Palador, I'm neither a Platinum nor Centurion member--I have Costco Business, Blue, Cash Rebate, and Business LOC.

I confirmed that all the cards were frozen today. An AMEX supervisor from another division did indicate that I'm not tagged for fraud or anything, but that it's company wide policy to not allow charges that total more than the card's limit. She indicated that if I comply with the request, this would likely be over quickly, and I could call her back if I had problems...I will probably call a senior supervisor in that dept per SIS's suggestion tomorrow, and see what happens.

AMEX must be scrutinizing their cardholders accounts more than they used to do.

I got a call from an AMEX rep about a month ago wanting financial statements, etc. I declined to provide them. The concern was that the balance owed for the past three months had ranged from $60K to $90K - this was the total between the prior month balance (before the due date) and the current month's charges. It had been ranging between $40K and $70K over the past year. This is on the regular AX card that does not have a pre-set credit limit.

I told them that I was perfectly willing to switch my charges to MBNA - who keep upping my credit limit though I hardly charge anything to the card. They then gave me a spiel about how much they valued my business, etc.

They acknowledged that I had paid the balance in time every month and there were no delinquencies. They said it was more to do with it being a business decision as to the level of exposure that they were willing to absorb without some documentation to show that I could support this level of debt.

The arrangement that I reached with them was that I would not exceed a balance of $50K outstanding at any point without first clearing it with them and that I could make interim payments during the month to keep the balance below this limit. I have been doing this without any arousing any questions. The AMEX rep told me that there are other card holders who do this with their accounts.

They also told me that the Blue Card which has a $25K limit was not part of the $50K limit mentioned above. So I could, in effect, go as high as $75K between the two cards. The information regarding charges for a particular month not exceeding the limit for the Blue card is certainly useful because I did not know that AMEX frowns on charges n excess of the limit even if the balance stays within the limit through interim payments on account.

If I was willing to provide financial statements, they would remove the limit. I felt that their position was reasonable. If I went to my bank and asked for a LOC of $100K I would have to provide a financial statement. I think what bothered me is that given the fact that I had the card with AMEX for the best part of 20 years without a single late payment, it seemed a bit needless to suddenly want a financial statement.

DWJoe said:

<< My experience with prepaying AMEX cards and exceeding the CL is that officially (i.e. if you speak to a CSR) they don't allow it, but the computer lets it through in certain cases. >>

Yeah, I spend 600% of my Starwood CL in each of two consecutive months and never ran into any problems, but I dont use for everyday usage so might have inadvertently avoided times when it was frozen for a few days.

If you do intend to provide financials, you should also demand they raise the LOC limit so as not ro run into similar problems in the future...I wouldnt provide docs just to maintain the same line they extended without docs....

Dave re ranajo, great post! Who did you deal with to reach this accommodation? I'm impressed you were able to come to a meeting of minds with them on something like this!

I do not recall the name of the person who I spoke to - she was not the usual customer service rep but was likely from some other department that has responsibility for risk management as it relates to accounts that are showing spending patterns that could lead to exposure - whether finanacial or legal ie the Patriot Act.

Keep in mind that the call pertained to the card that does not have a pre-set credit limit. I really did not negotiate with them per se. I declined to provide financial statements and informed them that if it was a precondition to the continued use of the credit card, I'd just take my business elsewhere. They were the ones who suggested payments on account to keep the balance at the agreed limit of $50K. The only negotiating that I did do was they first wanted to limit the balance to $40K and asked if that would be acceptable to me. I asked if $50K would be feasible and they said that would be fine. As I mentioned in my earlier post, they also indicated that if I needed to go above that level, I should could call for approval.

You should be aware that this lady said that other customers do the same thing ie make payments on account to reduce the balance owed. I assume - based on what you said - that this is not on cards that have pre-authorized spending limits, such as the Blue Card.

Also, I seem to recall that someone posted on another thread that when his balance reached over $100K, he was asked to make a payment on account.

As a business decision, I cannot quarrel with AMEX or any other lender requiring financial information if one is going to have a substantial balance outstanding.

Sorry, double post

OK SIS, that's roughly what I was thinking also Thanks. Will probably reach them today.

That makes sense ranajo. It's unfortunate that someone didn't see fit to call me, like they did you.

Sure, here's where things are at...

On Wednesday, BTs from other banks were put through. Then on Thursday, AMEX bounced the one check that was outstanding prior to the phone call to me for $6,000. As a result, I not only owe nothing on the line, but they owe me $6,000--more than I'm carrying on all my other AMEX lines combined.

I spoke with a woman from the Executive Assistant's office on Tuesday. She indicated that my account wasn't marked fraudulent--just a hold--and given that I'd been a good customer and had nothing to hide, I should be able to get this over with quickly by simply giving them what they wanted. She gave me her personal extension and said she'd be willing to help me follow up later.

I asked if they'd pulled a credit report, and said I wanted to know because I'm in the RE business, and want to guard my score jealously to keep A+ rates, and that many inquiries were the reason my score had dropped from the 750-760s to 718. At that moment she spontaneously revealed that "I must be very on top of my credit score, because it's a 716 here in our notes." She didn't know if it was a hard or a soft, but I'm 99% sure that they couldn't have obtained the actual score unless it was a hard inq.

I add this detail because of the next call I made to the Financial Review dept on Friday morning (I was busy with work between then and Thursday). This time I reached a woman who was more helpful than the first woman in FR. When I asked her if they had pulled a hard or a soft with equifax, she said that they couldn't reveal this information because they were not a credit bureau (lol.) She also said that not only accounts with me primary, but ALL AMEX accounts where I was even an AU were now "on hold"--without so much as notification from the bank. (Nice, though not unexpected.) She went on to say that once the docs are in, they say it takes 5-10 days to review, but it is often much quicker. She also said I'd been "an outstanding customer with us for a long time," and that I shouldn't be overly concerned. When I explained that it didn't seem appropriate to lock down my accounts given all this, she readily and politely answered that we'd be glad to see AMEX being so vigilant about monitoring the accounts if we ever had our account compromised (yeah, that's analogous.). She really was a nice person--she listened, took time, answered precisely what she could, and admitted when she DID know answers, but still couldn't tell me them. She gave me some advice as to what to include and what omit in the documents I faxed, and she thought my explanation was reasonable, and strongly encouraged me to include that. She was also obviously very well coached in precisely how to handle these matters.

Also Friday, I got letters to from AMEX for each of my accounts, all dated 11/17. They read,

<< We have an important business matter to discuss with you concerning your American Express account(s). We have been unable to reach you by telephone and need to speak with you to update our records. As a result, new charges will be declined on the account(s) listed above. It is important that you contact us immediately. Please call us today.... >>

Friday afternoon, I faxed 67 pages to them: a 5 page cover letter, complete financials, a statement of assets, and several other related documents.
I will keep you all posted as new developments arise. I honestly am not sure how they'll react, but I have a couple of options available if the reaction isn't favorable.

Thanks for your thoughts SIS.

Your point about providing more info rather than less is well taken. And perhaps I should have omitted the details of the recent RE transaction. My thinking there was basically (1) I want to prove this is viable business activity, not laundering, and more important (2) it's worth giving a line increase on, since it's not overly risky yet demonstrably profitable.

The reason I erred on the side of providing more has to do with what the other AMEX folks told me to do. My thinking is that if they have more rather than less, I can credibly say that I've gone out of my way to do everything they've asked all at once, and that I've absolutely nothing to hide.

<< I'm interested to see whether AMEX actually pays attention to what you submitted, or if they just decide you are too "complex" of a customer and that its a better business decision to cut you off and focus on simple consumers who pay more interest at higher APRs. >>

Ah, there's the rub alright. Let's just say that if they did that, without giving me a chance to play by their undisclosed rules, after everything they've represented and done to me, they will hear more about it than a long, boring letter.

Palador said:

<< If I were you DH, I'd put down $300 on an AMEX Biz Plat. It can easily pay for itself... not to mention I think you'd be getting better treatment. >>

I got an offer for $175/year for platinum somewhere...need to see what that was all about...

Dave Hanson, I posted this on another thread but since you raised the issue in the first place I thought that I would post it on this thread as well.

I just called AMEX to ascertain their policy regarding this matter: I gave them a specific example which entailed purchases of $25K during the first 10 days of the billing cycle (my credit limit is $25K). I then pay down the balance by $20K and make purchases of $18K. My balance has stayed within the $25K credit limit the whole time but I have actually made purchases of $43K during a billing cycle. After initially stating that this ought not to be a problem, the rep said that she was going to check with her supervisor. I was then told that it would not be permissible to do so because it would be a potential violation of the Patriot Act and could conceal money laundering.

Pelador was correct when he posted that this added scrutiny seems to be related to the Patriot Act.

ranajo said:

<< Dave Hanson, I posted this on another thread but since you raised the issue in the first place I thought that I would post it on this thread as well.

I just called AMEX to ascertain their policy regarding this matter: I gave them a specific example which entailed purchases of $25K during the first 10 days of the billing cycle (my credit limit is $25K). I then pay down the balance by $20K and make purchases of $18K. My balance has stayed within the $25K credit limit the whole time but I have actually made purchases of $43K during a billing cycle. After initially stating that this ought not to be a problem, the rep said that she was going to check with her supervisor. I was then told that it would not be permissible to do so because it would be a potential violation of the Patriot Act and could conceal money laundering.

Pelador was correct when he posted that this added scrutiny seems to be related to the Patriot Act. >>

I called MBNA and asked them the very same question. No problem at all to use the credit line over and over again after paying it off within the same billing cycle.