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Last year there was a Veteran's Repo home for sale in our area that I was interested in. I called about it in Nov 03. I was told that there was a sale pending. The sale fell through. The Veterans Dept turned over all repo sales to an independent company in Dec 03. Because they had a sale pending, they didn't turn this property over to the new company.

Now, the county still says that the Veteran's owns the house. I have tried calling the Veteran's Dept. and they tell me "We don't have any property any more, the independent has it, so we can't help you." I said "The county says you own it" They replied "We don't even have a property division any more, we can't own it" The independent says "We don't have any record of the property, so we can't help you!"

Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed? I would really like to buy this house for my MIL to move into. Plus, it has a pool & hot tub in the back yard that I would love to have! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>

Looks like this one fell through the cracks....Is it vacant?

Heres something to consider: Start squatting. Live in it and pay the property taxes on it. In about 5 years, file a motion with the court for adverse possession. You will then own it. Of course, consult an atty before taking action. If you or MIL arent the type to take that kind of risk, PM me.

Things like this happen more often than people realize. Can make for some interesting deals.

wow

I'll pay you $10 for the address!

Are you serious!? Can't you get thrown in jail if you get caught? My MIL would never! Neither would my husband! How moved in would you have to be? Could you just pay the tax and not move in until later? Should I go get the pool & tub?
Yes, it is empty, has been for over 1 1/2 years. No one is mowing or anything now, although they were until the switch.
More info would be appreciated. If it was definately legal, I wouldn't have to much problem doing it, but if isn't I could never do it. It is just a 2-bed mobile on a city lot, so it isn't worth alot ($50k-$70k)

I did send a letter to the address on the county files. I haven't heard anything regarding that!

Notorious Possession

The length of time required differs from state to state.

Hee Hee! Chances are EVERYONE who looked at the property probably thinks it was sold to the buyer they had on the hook - so if you "moved" in and startes sprucing things up - they would just think the buyer had finally taken possession....

Have you called the indepenedent agent for a listing of VA homes in the area? If it's not listed than it is kind of exciting for you!

Good Luck! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>

dealchaser72 said:

<< Are you serious!? Can't you get thrown in jail if you get caught? My MIL would never! Neither would my husband! How moved in would you have to be? Could you just pay the tax and not move in until later? Should I go get the pool & tub?
Yes, it is empty, has been for over 1 1/2 years. No one is mowing or anything now, although they were until the switch.
>>



Stealing the pool and hot tub from the property is an entirely different situation from squatting. Few people have the will and risk tolerance to attempt adverse possession, but to be frank, if you dont have the b@lls to do it, there are those who will if it remains vacant long enough. Sounds like a prime opportunity. Consult a professional before taking any action.


BTW, is THIS the place?? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>

NO that isn't the house. It isn't in a park. I wasn't serious about taking the pool & hot tub. We could never do it!
Yes, I have went to an independent realtor. They had written an offer on it when it was for sale, but they have no info on it now.

The one thing I don't get in this story is this: The real estate taxes have to be going to someone. If it truly "slipped though the cracks" then these taxes are most likely NOT being paid (you should be able to find this out though public records). If the taxes are not being paid -- isn't it just going to go though the standard foreclosure process? I know, its different in each state. In my state it would be foreclosed -- but in other states you would just have a lien on the property which could stick until it is sold.

Regarding the whole "Notorious Possession" thing -- that sounds exciting -- but there seem to be two downsides:

1) You have to break the law to "use" this particular law. i.e. isn't it still trespassing even if the property is unoccupied?
2) Couldn't the real owner show up and any time and shoot you? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> OK I'm half joking, but seriously, talk about an awkward moment. If they aren't a friendly person, they could start destroying your stuff and throwing it out on the street.

If you do go with the notorious possession, just make sure your MIL and rest of family thinks you own the place.

SUCKISSTAPLES said:

<<

BTW, is THIS the place?? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>
>>




hahahaha hi-larious read

Marketwiz, yes this property will start becoming tax defaulted...it was up for sale in Nov 03 so we can assume it was current then...

April 10 is the deadline for next tax payment in many states, so if no one pays it, it may indeed start defaulting, but would not be sold at tax lien sale for quite some time....then again, if an adverse possessor steps in and starts paying the tax, there would be no tax default noices sent, so even less chance of discovery.

Since the current owner is some agency who has given up the business of holding title to properties, theres little to no chance an "angry owner" is going to come to the property...as everyone has said, everyone will assume this is just the new tenants moving in. A good atty will suggest steps to avoid appearance of trespass but the person attempting to posses certainly needs to have some b@lls....

There is definitely a chance that a deal is lurking around here somewhere. Property ownership does get "disconnected" from the property on occasion. The trick is to figure out what's going on without raising too much of a ruckus that might tip off someone, or entity, to reclaim or assert their ownership.

Lately I've been working with lenders and their defaulted notes, it amazes me that frequently the bank has zero idea that their security in a property is in danger of being wiped at a foreclosure auction. Especially with the numerous mergers of lenders lately there are probably thousands of notes that have been lost in the system. Eventually many of these will be found, but no doubt there are hundreds of liens that will be foreclosed, and many accounts that will simply be "lost."

If I had a loan where the bank was being absorbed by another institution, or I received notice that the servicer was changing (15 day notice) I would seriously consider holding back a payment to see if my loan was fumbled somehow.

In this case adverse possession could very well be a viable tactic. I know someone who's in year 3 of adverse possession in a SoCal property. The FMV is around $450k. He's done some work, but obviously not a lot in case some heirs of the previous (deceased) owner show up to claim the place. He's pretty tight lipped about the deal (I don't even know its location) but from what I can figure out he found the place listed on the delinquent tax roll, checked it out, somehow found out that the owner had died, and paid the taxes and moved in.

MaxMojo said:

<< I know someone who's in year 3 of adverse possession in a SoCal property. The FMV is around $450k. . >>

Nice situation to be in.

SUCKISSTAPLES said:

<< MaxMojo said:

<< I know someone who's in year 3 of adverse possession in a SoCal property. The FMV is around $450k. . >>

Nice situation to be in.
>>



Until the real owner shows up and says "Thanks for payin' off my taxes man!"
<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>

I smell a book and speaking tour coming! Foreclosures have been beaten to death, but who's heard of "the notorious possession system" yet??? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>

"Make millions in real estate with NO MONEY DOWN, the NEW squatter way!"

I have to admit, I dont have the balls to break & enter a house and move in and pay the taxes on it in the hopes that nobody catches on !

I cant believe it would REALLY work in practice in modern times.

Not to mention how you would explain it to the neighbors.

you explain it to the neighbors that you are the new owners, plain and simple....just telling ONE person who "doesnt think its right" can mean the end...

<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0>

So how do you gain LEGAL entry into such dwelling ?

Many of us are not into breaking and entering....its a CRIME even if one is not caught.

consult a local atty, they will be happy to present various avenues for taking possession. this forum is not a legal forum and does not provide free legal advice. or try freeadvice.com

“Adverse Possession” clearly is not a common practice, and certainly not for everyone (definitely not for fw201<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>. Although moving into, and eventually taking over, a house is dramatic, adverse possession actually runs the gamut as far as what can be “adversely possessed.’

A more common situation would be a path. Let’s you own a large piece of land, your house is one one corner of the parcel, and you don’t pay much attention to the “back 40,” in fact, you don't even fence it off. A neighbor starts to walk across a far corner of your property because it saves him a few minutes of time. Years and years go by with your neighbor walking across your land.

Eventually you strike it rich by ebaying tons of cd-rom media you got for free after mail-in rebates, and you decide to build a helicopter pad in the back corner of your lot. As you start to fence in the area, your neighbor strolls up and complains that you’re taking away his access. The sorry affair ends up in court. There’s a good chance that your neighbor would prevail.

Notice that the above was just an example, the laws of adverse possession vary from locale to locale, and are different for land, paths, houses etc.

This just reminded me of something... Many moons ago I lived near Stanford University. The campus is a huge chunk of privately owned land and roads. I remember that once every year Stanford would chain off the access roads and roll out "No Trespassing" and "Private Property" signs. I'm pretty sure they did that just to assert their rights and claims on the land.

As far as this being more difficult in “modern” times… I would speculate that there are reasons why it would be easier, and why it might be more difficult. Many possible situations probably arise because someone who owned a property free and clear dies. With the proliferation of interconnecting databases it’s probably easier than ever to trace relatives, on the other hand the fragmenting of families and the nomadic nature of our society probably means that more people are alienated from possible heirs.

If you tremble in your slippers at the thought of walking into an abandoned house, then this isn’t for you. For me the possibility of a trespassing charge would be the least of my concerns.

Does ANYONE have any real instances where someone has gotten a house in recent times by AP ??

Nevermind, let me go pay some attorney $1000 for the question.

Yeah.

yes. many real recent instances.

Yeah, I know.

This is not a message board.

Its a secret society for those who are "in the know".

The rest...well, they get run off for suggesting that breaking and entering is a crime.

Wait..I just called my local police department and asked.

Yup. B&E is INDEED a crime.

Shucks.

fw201 said:

<< Does ANYONE have any real instances where someone has gotten a house in recent times by AP ??

Nevermind, let me go pay some attorney $1000 for the question.

Yeah.
>>



Wow, I don't know how to respond. First I don't get your point. It seems you were trying to be sarcastic, tough to say though because your post isn't very clear. Or is your point that you asked a question, and since you think no one answered, and since you think the only other way to find an answer is to ask a lawyer, and since that costs money, and you don't want to spned the money, then obviously this is all b.s.

If you were to take 2 seconds and google "adverse possession" you'd see that there are dozens and dozens of legal articles written about various cases. But if you don't want to take the time to educate yourself, then I guess you're right. This is all a fairy tale.

I think I finally "get" this FW.

Newbies get chastised for TRYING to help others because they fail to spend a half hour making sure something wasnt already covered.

And they also get chastised for asking a question.

Great place, What hospitality !

nobody is forcing you to post

No need to get hostile. Some folks just feel more comfortable in the 'Grocery Coupons" forum, no shame in that.

MaxMojo said:

<<

If you were to take 2 seconds and google "adverse possession" you'd see that there are dozens and dozens of legal articles written about various cases. But if you don't want to take the time to educate yourself, then I guess you're right. This is all a fairy tale.

Ahh screw it, some people just aren't worth the effort.
>>



Google? you mean someone can find info on THEIR OWN?? I thought you had to be spoonfed

And nobody is forcing you to stalk my every post...even 6 week old ones.

I feel SO special.


SUCKISSTAPLES said:

<< nobody is forcing you to post >>


fw201 said:

<< I think I finally "get" this FW.

Newbies get chastised for TRYING to help others because they fail to spend a half hour making sure something wasnt already covered.

And they also get chastised for asking a question.

Great place, What hospitality !
>>

let me guess..you signed up Jan 04...did it happen to be bc you read the WSJ article on Charter One gift cards???

MarketVViz said:

<<

I smell a book and speaking tour coming! Foreclosures have been beaten to death, but who's heard of "the notorious possession system" yet??? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>

"Make millions in real estate with NO MONEY DOWN, the NEW squatter way!"
>>


someone thought of it already

http://www.adverse-possession.com/

Does ANYONE have any real instances where someone has read that book in recent times ??

Nevermind, let me go pay some librarian $1000 for the question.

Yeah.

SUCKISSTAPLES said:

<< someone thought of it already

http://www.adverse-possession.com/
>>



I won't be surprised to find someone actually doing this -- but it would really be nice to talk to someone that has done it. Letter I sent to the guy selling that book:

"Have you actually done this yourself or can you put me in contact with someone who has successfully aquired real estate though the adverse possession process?

If you have done it, please provide some addresses so I can confirm.

Thanks."

MarketVViz said:

<< If you have done it, please provide some addresses so I can confirm. >>


And contest the ownership in court?

DeGlass said:

<< MarketVViz said:

<< If you have done it, please provide some addresses so I can confirm. >>


And contest the ownership in court?
>>



First sign of a scam -- create an elaborate conspiracy to explain why you can't provide proof of concept. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>

If he has successfully done this, then he has the title now or has already sold the property. There is no reason for him to conceal proof that his "system" works. What legal grounds would I have to contest the title anyway? He didn't take one of my houses.

yeah but he doesnt know who you are...theres about a 0% chance hes going to answer that question

SUCKISSTAPLES said:

<< yeah but he doesnt know who you are...theres about a 0% chance hes going to answer that question >>




This whole "system" seems pretty silly to me. First you have to locate unoccupied properties, but they can't just be empty, the owner must NOT be paying their taxes. So it seems the easiest way to do this is check public records to see who isn't paying their taxes first, then double check to see if the property looks unoccupied. Next you have to pay off all the unpaid taxes, and then pay the taxes for anywhere from 5 up to as many as 20 years (depending on the state you are in). By that point you may have spent $20,000 to $100,000 on taxes alone for a place you can't even rent out (because you don't own it and have no idea if someone will show up to kick the occupants out). The real owner could show up at any time and kick you out, and possibly have you arrested for breaking & entering and/or trespassing.

If you ask me, its MUCH MUCH safer and more profitable to simply sell a book about it!!
<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>

WOW -- I wasn't expecting any response -- much less one THIS candid. From the "expert" selling the book on this "system" of aquiring "free" real estate though adverse possession:



<< We've never done it. Know people in the past who have. It takes time. If one has little money it's a way one can acquire proprty. If one has access to money their time may be better spent acquiring using other methods.

Hope that helps!
Mark Walters
>>



Heeheheh. Not only has he never done it, he can't or won't put me in contact with anyone who has. And yet he is selling "the system". I love it.

Skipping 20 Messages...
good luck!



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