Here's the story. Had an AMEX Blue for Business as my only AMEX card for the last 2 years. Had a $5k limit, of which I was using none. As part of a recent app-o-rama, got a Blue Cash with a $2k limit with 0% for 1 year on purchases and a Business Platinum with a $5k limit with 0% for a year on BT. Called after getting them and got them to increase the Blue Cash to $15k. Made another call a few minutes later and got them to increase the Business Plat to $15k. Made yet another call a few minutes later and got them to increase the old Blue Business to $20k. It seemed as though the different departments could not see the increases on the other cards yet, which is probably why I was able to get such a dramatic increase in total credit lines. Called a few days later and moved $17k of the blue business line over to the Biz Plat, creating a line of $32k. I then did a BT for the full $32k.
Fast forward a month and a half. I recently made my first payment on the biz plat (just the $640 minimum) and have charged the blue cash up to around $4500. Called them for something else and got "it's funny that you called, we were about to call you". She asked me a few questions about my business and didn't seem to understand what an LLC was ("So it's a sole propreitorship?" "So it's an S corp?"). Anyhow she told me the accounts were frozen and if I didn't send in the docs within 15 days they would be "reviewed for cancellation". I said that I really didn't know if I would bother since I have cards with other issuers that don't make me go through so much work, and she said she could certainly understand that. She admitted after I questioned her that the $32k BT is what triggered the review.
Checked my PrivacyGuard and I'm not seeing any new hard inquiries from them (yet). This is probably for the best as my score has gone from mid-700s to mid-500s thanks to my app-o-rama (and this is without the Biz Plat reporting).
I'm planning on paying off the Biz Plat in full, and possibly doing the same with the Blue Cash and hoping that convinces them to drop the whole thing. Unfortunately this means I have to call Superior Savings and ask them to tear up my new account opening check when they get it (argh).
Anyway, thanks for listening, and I hope some of you can learn from my experience. Any advice is appreciated.
P.S. First National also didn't like my recent app-o-rama; they approved me for a $7000 limit, did the balance transfer, pulled my report again, then "closed the account to new purchases" due to "too many active bankcard accounts". Grrr.
UPDATE: new idea, also posted a few down from here:
What if I pay the cards off in full, cancel them myself, then call to reopen them in a few months (after my other 0% offers are paid down and my report looks better)? This should short-circuit the financial review. Opinions?
UPDATE (12-30-04):
Paid off all accounts and called today to cancel. Just as others have experienced, had no indication that they wanted to keep me as a customer; rep closed the accounts like I was asking him to read me my balance (not even an "are you sure?" or "why do you want to close the account?"). He said I'd receive a letter in a few days saying that the accounts were closed at my request.
I'll update this thread again if anything new develops (probably in 6 months when I apply for new cards or try to reopen the ones I just closed).
So you have a 32k balance with AMEX but you have over 32K going into a 3% savings account ? That doesn't make good sense to me unless AMEX was giving you 0% APR for a period of time.
Lines over 25K seem to need extra documentation. I would keep it under that if you don't want the extra paper hassle.
I recently applied for the Delta Skymiles for myself and husband within the same hour. If you add up all our AMEX lines it is well over 25K for each but not on a single card. I'm wondering how applying one after the other will affect their final credit line decision. I think they gave our credit lines not knowing the other had just applied. We'll see.
AMEX approved you for new lines in the amount of $7K plus your original line of $5K. The next thing they know you've run up the $12K in limits to $60K (likely, as you pointed out, to them not seeing all the changes in real-time) and you've borrowed $32K from them.
If I was AMEX I'd be nervous too. You've got their money and they are wondering what you did with it and whether or not they'll be getting it all back.
From previous threads discussing AMEX account reviews you either come up with satisfactory documentation to support the credit line or they close the accounts. I don't think they are going to just forget about the account review if you pay down your balances to $0, they are still exposed to the same risk in the future.
tooshy said:I think OP said 0% for a year on Biz Plat....
Lines over 25K seem to need extra documentation. I would keep it under that if you don't want the extra paper hassle.
I recently applied for the Delta Skymiles for myself and husband within the same hour. If you add up all our AMEX lines it is well over 25K for each but not on a single card. I'm wondering how applying one after the other will affect their final credit line decision. I think they gave our credit lines not knowing the other had just applied. We'll see.
Yes, that does seem to be the case. I had hoped to slip under the radar but looks like a no-go. After I pay off the Biz Plat I'll try to call and move $8000 of that credit line back to Blue for Business (if they'll let me do such a thing while my accounts are frozen).
AMEX approved you for new lines in the amount of $7K plus your original line of $5K. The next thing they know you've run up the $12K in limits to $60K (likely, as you pointed out, to them not seeing all the changes in real-time) and you've borrowed $32K from them.
If I was AMEX I'd be nervous too. You've got their money and they are wondering what you did with it and whether or not they'll be getting it all back.
Agreed. I think I had just hoped that no human would ever look at the account. Oh, and the total is $50k, not $60k (not that it matters).
From previous threads discussing AMEX account reviews you either come up with satisfactory documentation to support the credit line or they close the accounts. I don't think they are going to just forget about the account review if you pay down your balances to $0, they are still exposed to the same risk in the future.
I'll admit right here and now that I probably do not have the average daily balance of bank accounts that they would like to see (judging by others' experiences with this), as most of my accounts have only had the 0% money for a month or so. Moreover I disagree in principle for being forced to provide this documentation as I have never been late with a payment with them and simply used the lines they gave me - if they wanted docs they should have asked for them when I applied or when I reallocated lines. Either way I'm mostly just hoping to get a line decrease instead of account closure. We'll see.
A longstanding thread on this issue here might help.
FWIW, you are asking for the wrath of the FR department if you:
(a) manage to leverage single digit approvals into a $32K line (congrats on that!) but THEN: (b) immediately max it out with a BT AND (c) do the same to the degree that your score into the 500s.
With scores in the mid-high 700s, I had to work like hell to get them to reopen my accounts after they'd had a sizable history and no other increases. Sincere best of luck with this. Your odds of sucess are remote unless you have very impressive business financials and appreciable bank balances, and even then it'll be tough with that credit score.
DaveHanson said:A longstanding thread on this issue here might help.
FWIW, you are asking for the wrath of the FR department if you:
(a) manage to leverage single digit approvals into a $32K line (congrats on that!) but THEN: (b) immediately max it out with a BT AND (c) do the same to the degree that your score into the 500s.
With scores in the mid-high 700s, I had to work like hell to get them to reopen my accounts after they'd had a sizable history and no other increases. Sincere best of luck with this. Your odds of sucess are remote unless you have very impressive business financials and appreciable bank balances, and even then it'll be tough with that credit score.
Thanks for weighing in on the issue. I have spent the better part of this morning reviewing your thread already. I figure my best chance is that she said if they don't get the docs that the accounts will be "reviewed for cancellation". This seems like a softer threat than what others have experienced, and perhaps reflects a change in policy. Or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part. Anyhow, although I'll be disappointed if I lose these lines, I'm not going to be terribly upset; I took on this risk when I decided to play the 0% game and I have plenty of other cards (although I will try like hell to avoid "closed by grantor" on my report - if necessary closing them myself before they can get to them).
My feeling is that, by now, many people who took out massive amount of 0% money a year or two ago are now missing their minimum payments since they (unlike most people here) went out and spent it all. So the cc companies are getting a bit more antsy.
If it makes you feel any better, MBNA suspendedall my accounts, like this guy, after some big BT action. They're not closed though, and after I pay off my 0% money, I plan on calling them and re-activite them.
Idea: What if I pay the cards off in full, cancel them myself, then call to reopen them in a few months (after my other 0% offers are paid down and my report looks better)? This should short-circuit the financial review. Opinions?
Additional questions I wonder about:
Can I get away with leaving the Blue Cash open if I close the others? Don't want to lose my accumulated rewards.
Will I be giving up the 0% by closing then reopening?
I know no one will know for sure but I'm open to opinions
You have their money at 0% and they are threatening to close your accounts.
If they close the accounts what happens to the 0% offer and under what terms do you need to repay them.
Sounds like you have three option: 1. Do nothing 2. Pay back amounts owed and do nothing - They will probably cancel accounts or severly reduce limits 3. Pay back amounts owed and cancel accounts before they do - This will hopefully provide you with a clean slate to start over with them.
My suggestions is to find out if you can ride out the 0%.
OP wrote, This seems like a softer threat than what others have experienced, and perhaps reflects a change in policy. Or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part. I'm afraid it's the latter. I've heard this term used interchangeably with the others.
Good luck, and keep us posted.
To all: I hope FW readers consider this as yet another cautionary tale about maxing out cards for 0% BT purposes. OP was told that this was his downfall, and this isn't surprising. As a statistical matter, maxing out a new limit is an extremely high risk behavior. Far better to use, say, just under 1/2 the line, which is MUCH less likely to raise red flags.
DaveHanson said:To all: I hope FW readers consider this as yet another cautionary tale about maxing out cards for 0% BT purposes. OP was told that this was his downfall, and this isn't surprising. As a statistical matter, maxing out a new limit is an extremely high risk behavior. Far better to use, say, just under 1/2 the line, which is MUCH less likely to raise red flags.
Agreed. Had I not been greedy, I could have pushed the AMEX card to only $24k instead of $32k, and borrowing half of that could've gotten me a nice $12000 at 0% for a year. Now I have nothing but headaches, several hard inquiries on my reports from the original apps, and 2 years of good history with them down the tubes. Learn from my mistakes.
I don't follow completely, did you BT the whole 32k into the superior savings account? If so, why not send them the statement showing you have the assests to pay off this debt?
jlgrandam said:I don't follow completely, did you BT the whole 32k into the superior savings account? If so, why not send them the statement showing you have the assests to pay off this debt?
No, they wouldn't allow BT to savings or checking. Sorry to confuse the issue by discussing Superior; the reason I brought it up is because I wanted to use the money in my checking account to pay off the AMEX card, which would have resulted in an overdraft if Superior cashed my just-sent-out account opening check.
Also, although I have the assets to pay them off, by all reports this is not enough for AMEX as they want to see high average daily balances from the last 3 months, which I cannot furnish. Besides, I am opposed on principle to providing the documentation when it is requested in this context.
On a side note, another warning to would-be 0% exploiters - don't overpay Household. The BT I originally did from AMEX was to Household, and I still haven't gotten my Credit Balance Refund check.
Perhaps the $32k BT wasn't the only reason they flagged my account... from the thread about 7-11 gift cards:
guoyingzi said: AMEX were all over on me while I did the purchases, even I notified them in advance. I had to talk to their security department 3 times when I was at a store, just 2 minutes apart. They also called both my work and home, plus sending me a express letter.
The gift card was the last transaction that posted to my account before the review.
They asked me what exactly I was buying at a gas station. I said Christmas gifts. My line is only 10k, so they didn't do any harm to me.
ILikeDollars, I think it will turn out better if you cancel the cards yourself, than have them do it. It will show out differently on your credit report.
Paid off most of the balance on the Biz Plat card yesterday (just waiting for some funds to transfer out of ING to finish paying it in full) and cancelled all my AU cards on all my accounts (certainly don't want to risk "closed by grantor" on their reports). Tried calling today to reallocate the business lines, as I anticipated getting them reopened in the future will be easier if they are under the magic $25000 limit. Spoke to the SAME LADY as yesterday, who remembered me. She said they can't reallocate lines until the review is complete. It seems to me that having the account flagged for review means that you will probably talk to the same people whenever you call (or at least that your call is always forwarded straight to the financial review department instead of normal CSRs).
I think after I finish closing all these accounts out, I am going to call AMEX or send them a letter infoming them that as a stockholder with a not insignificant number of shares, I am putting them on Financial Review. Anyone want to make any suggestions for documents I demand that they give me? So far I've come up with the following:
CEO's home phone number and address CEO's last 2 years of W2s and bank statements Documentation of all customer profitability scoring methods
Paid off most of the balance on the Biz Plat card yesterday (just waiting for some funds to transfer out of ING to finish paying it in full) and cancelled all my AU cards on all my accounts (certainly don't want to risk "closed by grantor" on their reports). Tried calling today to reallocate the business lines, as I anticipated getting them reopened in the future will be easier if they are under the magic $25000 limit. Spoke to the SAME LADY as yesterday, who remembered me. She said they can't reallocate lines until the review is complete. It seems to me that having the account flagged for review means that you will probably talk to the same people whenever you call (or at least that your call is always forwarded straight to the financial review department instead of normal CSRs).
I think after I finish closing all these accounts out, I am going to call AMEX or send them a letter infoming them that as a stockholder with a not insignificant number of shares, I am putting them on Financial Review. Anyone want to make any suggestions for documents I demand that they give me? So far I've come up with the following:
CEO's home phone number and address CEO's last 2 years of W2s and bank statements Documentation of all customer profitability scoring methods
That would be a great way to get flagged as a kook. You haven't lent AMEX or it's CEO any money. Let it go, they haven't done anything wrong or unreasonable.
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