In the spirit of SIS's pioneering Application-O-Ramatechnique, I cleaned up my credit in preparation for a big round of credit card applications. My FAKO's (care of Privacy Guard) were around 750-760, and I had (by accident) a single card with any significant debt on it, being about $15K (60% utilization). Otherwise I had no balances, and no credit inquiries in the last 6 months. For reference, my credit history is a little over 10 years old, and an optimistic but justifiable household income of $125K was reported. This turned out to be more than good enough, as I was not turned down on credit worthiness reasons for any of the cards I applied for.
I applied for a number of new cåsh back cards (as discussed here), and received almost all of them. I requested credit line increases on some of my existing cards, with varying success. Lastly, I applied for all the 0% no-fee BT offers I could find.
Existing Credit Lines Chase Student – asked for and got $10K extra, (now $27K) Discover (Private Issue) – asked for $13K, got $2K (now $14K). Got BT 0% for life for 2x$1/month starting March ’05, $29 fee Discover – asked for $10K (existing $16K) – wanted job/tax docs. May ask for 0% deal, but haven't yet. ÅMEX Platinum Cash Rebate – asked for $15K, got topped up $600 to $25K (max without further docs) BankOne Free Cash Rewards – asked for $11K, denied (current $18K) CapOne Plat – asked increase, autodeclined “account type currently ineligible?” (current $9K) MBNA Quantum – asked for increase, declined (current $31K). Very helpful offer to reallocate existing credit however.
Total increase in existing credit lines = $12K.
New Cåsh back cards: CapOne GoCash – did $17K BT, got $19K CL. 0% until 5/05 only on BTs with app. Chase Ultimate Cash - $5K, 0% BT (fee 3%/$75) tried but wouldn’t waive fee Pentagon FCU Cash - $5K Citi Drivers Edge - $7.5K, 0% for 1 year from BT date, 5% rebate promo for 9 month Citi Diamond Preferred - $5K, 0% til 1/06, $100 GC for first $100 purchase Providian Democrat Cash – $7K Merrill+ - $10K reallocated from existing MBNA Quantum Fidelity Investment Rewards - $10K reallocated from existing MBNA Quantum, 1.7% til 6/05 Advanta Business Cash - $5K BankOne Business Cash – $20K, could give docs for more
0% (no fee) cards Bank of America - $15K, 0% til 1/06, preapproved, asked for $13K BT with application Union Bank of CA Platinum - $10K, 0% until 9/05 no fees Household Bank – $3K, 0% til 9/05, tried $6K increase upon activation (review pending) Chase Cashbuilder - 0% for 12 months, tried $15K BT. Got call from CSR wanting to approve and get BT underway, but said I had too much credit already ($27K student, $5K new Ultimate). Wanted to reallocate to total exposure $25K for my income level. I told her I'd think about it, called back a different friendly CSR who moved all but $1K from my student card to this one with no reduction. Pays to be friendly .
Total New Credit = $103K. Available 0% Credit, including reallocations of existing lines = $122K
Denials or Pending Stockback - denied due to sufficient existing MBNA credit obligations. This one hurt . It was the last card I called for, and the 3rd MBNA application. Should have done it first as the earlier MBNA reallocations were easy. Providian - 0% til 1/07 w/ 2 purchases monthly – denied as duplicate Providian request with Democrat card Chase Platinum - 15 month 0% offer, denied due to existing Chase Platinum card Citi AT&T 5% promo rebate - denied as duplicate Citi application Citi Plat Select - nice 0% offer, denied as duplicate Citi application National City Cashbuilder - no reply, denied
Random thoughts My credit was clearly more than good enough. Several CSRs pulled my report for real time approval and commented "wow you have really good credit" or similar things. Being at the same job for 8 years was commented on as being particularly good/unusual during one conversation.
I looked into getting Netflip cash for signing up for cards, but invariably the offers there were worse (shorter 0%, smaller free GC, etc) than offers for the same exact card linked to either here or elsewhere. Maybe I don't know how to work that system, but I found it worthless and gave up. Then they sold out my email address to the spammers .
MBNA's credit department gets kudos. While I was a little disappointed not to get additional credit (being very happy with my existing MBNA Quantum with its periodic 0% offers), they were able to move credit and open both the Fidelity and Merrill cards during my application. When I requested an online CL increase for my existing card, I got a very prompt call from a CSR who could see all the applications, etc, and offered to reallocate the lines however I wanted (but no new credit). He gave me his number, and when I later decided to move my CLs around to make use of my existing Quantum 0% offer, he not only recognized me by name when I called (!) but was quick and efficient. He reminded me of my nice 0% offer on my now $25K Quantum line, and then cautioned against using it just yet when he saw the existing balance was not a 0% balance. I'll be taking him up on his offer once I pay off the balance.
Asking for big BTs on the application seemed to help generate more generous credit lines and/or acceptances. BofA, Chase, and CapOne all fall into this category. It may have even helped me to have a single card with a high dollar balance (despite the credit score hit) so that all the new cards could be directed to make a big BT to that card. Chase in particular I felt would have denied my Cashbuilder application due to existing credit outstanding, but was clearly eager to facilitate the big BT I'd requested.
Capital One is known for having numerous different offers, with many permutations of cåsh back rates, maximum earnings, etc. The cåsh terms were not given in documentation, however, where it only said “refer to original offer.” Maybe one could get an upgrade to better terms by asking nicely?
My FAKO scores took a big hit with all the new credit pulls and new young accounts. Before any additional balances showed up (but with most of the new cards reporting), my FAKOs are 700-730, for an average drop of about 40 points each. I'm not worried, but imitators should be aware of the consequences. I'm sure my scores will look LOTS worse once all that 0% debt comes online.
Regrets 1. I should have asked for CL increases on all my existing cards, not just a few. Consolidations can help, esp with Citibank cards, and it never hurts to have more credit. 2. I should have prioritizing applications for best cards earliest/first during the day. 3. I should have started earlier in the day especially being in PST. 4. I should have applied more selectively for Citibank cards, since I got 2 random ones instead of the 2 best (max 3 cards, I already had one) 5. I should have looked harder for 0% offers, as there were plenty I didn't find until later
Hopefully my experience will be helpful to others trying similar things. Good luck with those applications!
Edit: I did end up with several unfortunate consequences due to my now much worse credit. See my latest post.
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Also, I just realized that 3% interest on your 0% lines (if you maxed them out into your bank account) would be like $3600!!! Neato...
Heh you could totally get private banking with that...except then again the question is, if you don't have a really high paying job, won't the IRS get on your case if you put this money into bank accounts?
I'm worried enough about the IRS wondering why my jobless butt has $10000 in the bank from my one balance transfer off my Chase card lol.
Are you willing to tell us what your approximate income is? Thats always good info when it comes to seeing what it takes to get certain credit limits. I understand if you don't want to say.
Thanks for sharing, Xerty. I am going to save this one for reference - am going to try my own app-o-rama later this year when some of my 0% offers come due and my FAKO goes back up.
I did my own app-o-rama ~1 year ago but it probably be my last. Opening up so many new accounts will always keep my average age of accounts very little low, and that's not something I personally want to do.
I updated OP with responses to some of the inquiries so far.
cirrus said:Also, I just realized that 3% interest on your 0% lines (if you maxed them out into your bank account) would be like $3600!!! Neato... won't the IRS get on your case if you put this money into bank accounts? I'm sure the IRS will be happy when I pay taxes on the interest I earn. Right now my bank account is 2.25%, but with this much new available cash, I'll be looking more closely into some of those 3% accounts. I'm tenatively thinking of using <90% of the 0% credit, although this is somewhat risky since some creditors may take adverse actions on my better (non-0%) credit cards due to my worsening credit. I think using just under 50% would be quite safe in this regard. Meanwhile, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
I'm currently looking to line up a few cards for my app that I'm planning to do later this week. What was your main source for finding the card deals? Everytime I start looking I get overwhelmed and off track.
And I take it your not worried about that all that cash showing up in your bank account? I was go to do all BT's to my account but am a little worried about the banks reaction, etc...
Thanks for all the detailed postings and application info. You made some very good and interesting points about transfers and such. I think you did a great job and got alot of new lines. It looks like you have at least 200K available in credit based on your info. That is excellent. Citibank can be very hard to understand.
One thing that strikes me is that your new lines have some very low CLs (especially when your open accounts have much higher CLs). Were any of these cards from issuers new to your credit profile, or were they all issuers where you already had existing cards?
Ive found that many NEW issuers feel most "comfortable" giving similar limits as your other cards.
When I did app o rama, new card issuers gave me limits similar to what I had with other issuers, but issuers who I already had cards with gave me lower limits, since I already had a bunch of credit with them.
SUCKISSTAPLES said:Were any of these cards from issuers new to your credit profile, or were they all issuers where you already had existing cards? Your observations seem to be largely true in my case. BofA, Union Bank of CA (by First Nat'l Bank Omaha), Household, Providian, and Pentagon FCU were all new issuers for me. BofA and UBOC were fairly generous. CapOne was unusually generous among those I already had credit with, Citi was reasonably good, and Chase/MBNA were stingy.
SUCKISSTAPLES said:One thing that strikes me is that your new lines have some very low CLs (especially when your open accounts have much higher CLs). Were any of these cards from issuers new to your credit profile, or were they all issuers where you already had existing cards?
Ive found that many NEW issuers feel most "comfortable" giving similar limits as your other cards.
When I did app o rama, new card issuers gave me limits similar to what I had with other issuers, but issuers who I already had cards with gave me lower limits, since I already had a bunch of credit with them.
This seems to be related not only to the issuer, but to the type of card.
I have an old driver's edge, and applied for the new one. Got a call from citi offering $500 CL or a choice of consolidating it with one of my existing cards. Closed my AT&T Card and applied for a new one, got CL around $8K.
MBNA seems to be generous until you hit certain limit(or may be it depends on the credit score). I remember getting 2 or 3 new cards from them in a short period of time(about 3-5 month) all had 5600CL. But when I was getting HGHWs I had to split my existing CLs in order to be approved.
Thanks for taking the time to update and document your experience, xerty. Kudos! I'm tenatively thinking of using <90% of the 0% credit, although this is somewhat risky since some creditors may take adverse actions on my better (non-0%) credit cards due to my worsening credit. I think using just under 50% would be quite safe in this regard. I strongly encourage you to generally stick with the 50% threshold, rather than 90%. I'm confident you WILL encounter problems if all that new/increased credit is close to 90% utilized.
If you don't want to keep it all under 50%, save a >50% utilization for your very best offers. E.G., my wife has a 0% 1-year offer from chase at 50K, and since the line is so large we opted to keep that line only at <70%, rather than <50%. And because I so often use credit for new offers, lines, etc., I even kept below 50% for my $25K Discover 0% for life offer, as much as it pained me to do so. FWIW.
Your and SIS's remarks on new issuers matching CLs, while current issuers don't, is quite typical IME. It certainly makes sense, since no one issuer wants to give to much overall exposure to one customer.
bk330ci wrote, I did my own app-o-rama ~1 year ago but it probably be my last. Opening up so many new accounts will always keep my average age of accounts very little low, and that's not something I personally want to do. I share your concerns, but note that your worry is only true for brand new accounts, as opposed to line increases, reallocations, and conversions where the number or card history stays the same. And of course, all else equal, higher lines will INCREASE credit scores over lower lines, assuming balances remain constant, since utilization percentages will drop.
xerty said:Right now my bank account is 2.25%, but with this much new available cash, I'll be looking more closely into some of those 3% accounts. I'm tenatively thinking of using <90% of the 0% credit, although this is somewhat risky since some creditors may take adverse actions on my better (non-0%) credit cards due to my worsening credit. I think using just under 50% would be quite safe in this regard. Meanwhile, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.I've been happy with Superior Savings -- 3.04% APY is hard to beat.
The utilization question is a hard one to answer. Others experiences are a good example that bad things can happy, but I've been fairly lucky to date with my accounts.
I did my first App-O-Rama back in April 2004. My highest outstanding balance came in May or June with a little over $134K used, and 12 cards completely maxed out. Currently, I'm down to an outstanding balance of $93,975, which is spread across 8 cards. 3 cards are still above 90% utilization, the rest aren't much better -- between 80-88% utilization.
My own strategy has been to present myself as though there's no chance I'll ever default on the balance. To do this, I pay on my accounts each month as soon as the billing cycle closes and the new bill becomes available. In addition, always pay slightly more than the minimums -- typically rounding up to an even multiple of $25.
To date, there have been no adverse actions on any of my accounts because of my utilization. No CL closures, no increased rates, no nasty calls or letters. I have however applied for two credit cards and received denials in both cases -- missed out on the HGW1 deal and the 1.5% CashBack from Penfed. Oh well. Such is the price of free money.
Congrats on the rest of the results of your App-O-Rama. Sounds like you did pretty well for yourself.
Edit: In the future, I'll probably adopt a less aggressive stance regarding 0% BTs and % utilization as well, but in this case the damage had been done and the costs of doing business (i.e. BT fees) had been paid -- I decided to ride it out.
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. It was the last card I called for, and the 3rd MBNA application. Should have done it first as the earlier MBNA reallocations were easy.
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