My Application-O-Rama Results - advice, regrets, and lots of details

In the spirit of SIS's pioneering Application-O-Rama technique, I cleaned up my credit in preparation for a big round of credit card applications. My FAKO's (care of Privacy Guard) were around 750-760, and I had (by accident) a single card with any significant debt on it, being about $15K (60% utilization). Otherwise I had no balances, and no credit inquiries in the last 6 months. For reference, my credit history is a little over 10 years old, and an optimistic but justifiable household income of $125K was reported. This turned out to be more than good enough, as I was not turned down on credit worthiness reasons for any of the cards I applied for.

I applied for a number of new cåsh back cards (as discussed here), and received almost all of them. I requested credit line increases on some of my existing cards, with varying success. Lastly, I applied for all the 0% no-fee BT offers I could find.

Existing Credit Lines
Chase Student – asked for and got $10K extra, (now $27K)
Discover (Private Issue) – asked for $13K, got $2K (now $14K). Got BT 0% for life for 2x$1/month starting March ’05, $29 fee
Discover – asked for $10K (existing $16K) – wanted job/tax docs. May ask for 0% deal, but haven't yet.
ÅMEX Platinum Cash Rebate – asked for $15K, got topped up $600 to $25K (max without further docs)
BankOne Free Cash Rewards – asked for $11K, denied (current $18K)
CapOne Plat – asked increase, autodeclined “account type currently ineligible?” (current $9K)
MBNA Quantum – asked for increase, declined (current $31K). Very helpful offer to reallocate existing credit however.

Total increase in existing credit lines = $12K.

New Cåsh back cards:
CapOne GoCash – did $17K BT, got $19K CL. 0% until 5/05 only on BTs with app.
Chase Ultimate Cash - $5K, 0% BT (fee 3%/$75) tried but wouldn’t waive fee
Pentagon FCU Cash - $5K
Citi Drivers Edge - $7.5K, 0% for 1 year from BT date, 5% rebate promo for 9 month
Citi Diamond Preferred - $5K, 0% til 1/06, $100 GC for first $100 purchase
Providian Democrat Cash – $7K
Merrill+ - $10K reallocated from existing MBNA Quantum
Fidelity Investment Rewards - $10K reallocated from existing MBNA Quantum, 1.7% til 6/05
Advanta Business Cash - $5K
BankOne Business Cash – $20K, could give docs for more

0% (no fee) cards
Bank of America - $15K, 0% til 1/06, preapproved, asked for $13K BT with application
Union Bank of CA Platinum - $10K, 0% until 9/05 no fees
Household Bank – $3K, 0% til 9/05, tried $6K increase upon activation (review pending)
Chase Cashbuilder - 0% for 12 months, tried $15K BT. Got call from CSR wanting to approve and get BT underway, but said I had too much credit already ($27K student, $5K new Ultimate). Wanted to reallocate to total exposure $25K for my income level. I told her I'd think about it, called back a different friendly CSR who moved all but $1K from my student card to this one with no reduction. Pays to be friendly .

Total New Credit = $103K.
Available 0% Credit, including reallocations of existing lines = $122K

Denials or Pending
Stockback - denied due to sufficient existing MBNA credit obligations. This one hurt . It was the last card I called for, and the 3rd MBNA application. Should have done it first as the earlier MBNA reallocations were easy.
Providian - 0% til 1/07 w/ 2 purchases monthly – denied as duplicate Providian request with Democrat card
Chase Platinum - 15 month 0% offer, denied due to existing Chase Platinum card
Citi AT&T 5% promo rebate - denied as duplicate Citi application
Citi Plat Select - nice 0% offer, denied as duplicate Citi application
National City Cashbuilder - no reply, denied

Random thoughts
My credit was clearly more than good enough. Several CSRs pulled my report for real time approval and commented "wow you have really good credit" or similar things. Being at the same job for 8 years was commented on as being particularly good/unusual during one conversation.

I looked into getting Netflip cash for signing up for cards, but invariably the offers there were worse (shorter 0%, smaller free GC, etc) than offers for the same exact card linked to either here or elsewhere. Maybe I don't know how to work that system, but I found it worthless and gave up. Then they sold out my email address to the spammers .

MBNA's credit department gets kudos. While I was a little disappointed not to get additional credit (being very happy with my existing MBNA Quantum with its periodic 0% offers), they were able to move credit and open both the Fidelity and Merrill cards during my application. When I requested an online CL increase for my existing card, I got a very prompt call from a CSR who could see all the applications, etc, and offered to reallocate the lines however I wanted (but no new credit). He gave me his number, and when I later decided to move my CLs around to make use of my existing Quantum 0% offer, he not only recognized me by name when I called (!) but was quick and efficient. He reminded me of my nice 0% offer on my now $25K Quantum line, and then cautioned against using it just yet when he saw the existing balance was not a 0% balance. I'll be taking him up on his offer once I pay off the balance.

Asking for big BTs on the application seemed to help generate more generous credit lines and/or acceptances. BofA, Chase, and CapOne all fall into this category. It may have even helped me to have a single card with a high dollar balance (despite the credit score hit) so that all the new cards could be directed to make a big BT to that card. Chase in particular I felt would have denied my Cashbuilder application due to existing credit outstanding, but was clearly eager to facilitate the big BT I'd requested.

Capital One is known for having numerous different offers, with many permutations of cåsh back rates, maximum earnings, etc. The cåsh terms were not given in documentation, however, where it only said “refer to original offer.” Maybe one could get an upgrade to better terms by asking nicely?

My FAKO scores took a big hit with all the new credit pulls and new young accounts. Before any additional balances showed up (but with most of the new cards reporting), my FAKOs are 700-730, for an average drop of about 40 points each. I'm not worried, but imitators should be aware of the consequences. I'm sure my scores will look LOTS worse once all that 0% debt comes online.

Regrets
1. I should have asked for CL increases on all my existing cards, not just a few. Consolidations can help, esp with Citibank cards, and it never hurts to have more credit.
2. I should have prioritizing applications for best cards earliest/first during the day.
3. I should have started earlier in the day especially being in PST.
4. I should have applied more selectively for Citibank cards, since I got 2 random ones instead of the 2 best (max 3 cards, I already had one)
5. I should have looked harder for 0% offers, as there were plenty I didn't find until later

Hopefully my experience will be helpful to others trying similar things. Good luck with those applications!

Edit: I did end up with several unfortunate consequences due to my now much worse credit. See my latest post.

Thanks for the valuable info.

You mentioned FAKO scores 750-760 prior to app spree.

What is it now?

good post...congrats with the success

Thanks for sharing, Xerty. I am going to save this one for reference - am going to try my own app-o-rama later this year when some of my 0% offers come due and my FAKO goes back up.

Thanks for your results.

I did my own app-o-rama ~1 year ago but it probably be my last. Opening up so many new accounts will always keep my average age of accounts very little low, and that's not something I personally want to do.

I updated OP with responses to some of the inquiries so far.

cirrus said: Also, I just realized that 3% interest on your 0% lines (if you maxed them out into your bank account) would be like $3600!!! Neato... won't the IRS get on your case if you put this money into bank accounts?
I'm sure the IRS will be happy when I pay taxes on the interest I earn. Right now my bank account is 2.25%, but with this much new available cash, I'll be looking more closely into some of those 3% accounts. I'm tenatively thinking of using <90% of the 0% credit, although this is somewhat risky since some creditors may take adverse actions on my better (non-0%) credit cards due to my worsening credit. I think using just under 50% would be quite safe in this regard. Meanwhile, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I'm currently looking to line up a few cards for my app that I'm planning to do later this week. What was your main source for finding the card deals? Everytime I start looking I get overwhelmed and off track.

And I take it your not worried about that all that cash showing up in your bank account? I was go to do all BT's to my account but am a little worried about the banks reaction, etc...

Thanks for all the detailed postings and application info. You made some very good and interesting points about transfers and such. I think you did a great job and got alot of new lines. It looks like you have at least 200K available in credit based on your info. That is excellent. Citibank can be very hard to understand.

Rob

SUCKISSTAPLES said: Were any of these cards from issuers new to your credit profile, or were they all issuers where you already had existing cards?
Your observations seem to be largely true in my case. BofA, Union Bank of CA (by First Nat'l Bank Omaha), Household, Providian, and Pentagon FCU were all new issuers for me. BofA and UBOC were fairly generous. CapOne was unusually generous among those I already had credit with, Citi was reasonably good, and Chase/MBNA were stingy.

Thanks for taking the time to update and document your experience, xerty. Kudos!
I'm tenatively thinking of using <90% of the 0% credit, although this is somewhat risky since some creditors may take adverse actions on my better (non-0%) credit cards due to my worsening credit. I think using just under 50% would be quite safe in this regard. I strongly encourage you to generally stick with the 50% threshold, rather than 90%. I'm confident you WILL encounter problems if all that new/increased credit is close to 90% utilized.

If you don't want to keep it all under 50%, save a >50% utilization for your very best offers. E.G., my wife has a 0% 1-year offer from chase at 50K, and since the line is so large we opted to keep that line only at <70%, rather than <50%. And because I so often use credit for new offers, lines, etc., I even kept below 50% for my $25K Discover 0% for life offer, as much as it pained me to do so. FWIW.

Your and SIS's remarks on new issuers matching CLs, while current issuers don't, is quite typical IME. It certainly makes sense, since no one issuer wants to give to much overall exposure to one customer.


bk330ci wrote, I did my own app-o-rama ~1 year ago but it probably be my last. Opening up so many new accounts will always keep my average age of accounts very little low, and that's not something I personally want to do. I share your concerns, but note that your worry is only true for brand new accounts, as opposed to line increases, reallocations, and conversions where the number or card history stays the same. And of course, all else equal, higher lines will INCREASE credit scores over lower lines, assuming balances remain constant, since utilization percentages will drop.

(Edited for typos)

DaveHanson said: Thanks for taking the time to update and document your experience, xerty. Kudos!
I'm tenatively thinking of using <90% of the 0% credit, although this is somewhat risky since some creditors may take adverse actions on my better (non-0%) credit cards due to my worsening credit. I think using just under 50% would be quite safe in this regard. I strongly encourage you to generally stick with the 50% threshold, rather than 90%. I'm confident you WILL encounter problems if all that new/increased credit is close to 90% utilized.

If you don't want to keep it all under 50%, save a >50% utilization for your very best offers. E.G., my wife has a 0% 1-year offer from chase at 50K, and since the line is so large we opted to keep that line only at 50%, rather than 70%. And because I so often use credit for new offers, lines, etc., I even kept below 50% for my $25K Discover 0% for life offer, as much as it pained me to do so. FWIW.

I had been utilizing two MBNA cards for 99% of CL, the only bad side effect of thas was: Bank One decided to close my card($10K limit, $0 balance), after I've called them, they've reopened it with $5CL. Other than that everythign was ok. But my score did take a huge dive(by 30 points at least, which prevented me from getting other 0% offers. May be I'll try "less than 50% strategy" in the futere(unless the greed takes over and I decide to transfer the maximum amount possible )

This might be stupid, but I was wondering what the point of opening so much credit was.

Is it to sort of have a free loan where you can invest $$ elsewhere, or is it to wind up better off with credit utilization on credit reports?

Might be a dumb question, but I was curious!

I've found SIS' comments to be true in my case as well. Most especially with BankONE. The first card I got from them was about 24K, the next was 11K, the most recent was 2K. In nearly all cases, a NEW account from a bank I've never done business before, has always matched or was very close in matching the CL's of my other accounts**

** Provided they were reporting for 6 months IME

Thanks for sharing!

lika a "this stunt was done by a professional and not recommended for your average joe" sort of warning?

ruggs183 said: drsluggo said: This might be stupid, but I was wondering what the point of opening so much credit was.

Is it to sort of have a free loan where you can invest $$ elsewhere, or is it to wind up better off with credit utilization on credit reports?

Might be a dumb question, but I was curious!

when you get 40k or some large amount like that for free...you drop it into a saving account or whatever you want and let it earn interest...when the time is up then you pay it back but keep the interest...minus taxes...those with a BT for life...those are sweet

So by dooing this you make 3% in interest on the 40k ($1,200) and the cost is time (maybe 3 hours a month) the one fee listed from Discover ($29) and the risk that the bank could defult holding your money in limbo until you get it back.

First, with a respectful nod to our virtual AOR Pioneeer and Ubermann SIS, I want to congratulate the OP for one of the clearest and comprehensive reports of this nature. Its organized and well thought out structure seemed almost at the level of a PhD physicist thesis.

A coupla caveats. In July I did a major AOR starting early morning EST and furiously went until about noon with a prioritized list of applicants documented with the phone numbers and websites. Hoping to get a benefit of reduced inquiry hits from this all in one day frenzy, I was surprised when my FAKO's showed inquiries coming in over 3 days instead of 1, and the combined total of nickel hits did a destructive job on my scores. So beware, you may not get the one day discount on FAKO's.

Secondly, the biggest risk from this type of compulsive behavior involves lack of self control. If anyone spends this money rather than invests, they're asking for serious long-term problems. Consistent with this strategy is an overriding need to apply this money wisely. For adults only.----z

zeego said:
A coupla caveats. In July I did a major AOR starting early morning EST and furiously went until about noon with a prioritized list of applicants documented with the phone numbers and websites. Hoping to get a benefit of reduced inquiry hits from this all in one day frenzy, I was surprised when my FAKO's showed inquiries coming in over 3 days instead of 1, and the combined total of nickel hits did a destructive job on my scores. So beware, you may not get the one day discount on FAKO's.


If that's the way it happens, then there may be some benefit to a thread compiling how many days each card issuer takes to show the inquiry. It would help prioritize the order in which to apply.

btbrors said: zeego said: A coupla caveats. In July I did a major AOR starting early morning EST and furiously went until about noon with a prioritized list of applicants documented with the phone numbers and websites. Hoping to get a benefit of reduced inquiry hits from this all in one day frenzy, I was surprised when my FAKO's showed inquiries coming in over 3 days instead of 1, and the combined total of nickel hits did a destructive job on my scores. So beware, you may not get the one day discount on FAKO's.If that's the way it happens, then there may be some benefit to a thread compiling how many days each card issuer takes to show the inquiry. It would help prioritize the order in which to apply.In SIS's original thread, I posted the results of my App-O-Rama last April and noted the same phenomena.

I think the correlation I noted was that the ones in which I spoke to a live person were pulled immediately. Ones filled out on the internet were either pulled immediately or the next day. And ones which required spoken answers to an automated system (Citi uses these) were pulled two days later.

AAlison said: I thought the benefit of all the hits happening in one day was that the banks you're currently applying with won't see them. Do inquiries on the same day only count as one? I thought that was true only of mortgage applications (all within a 2-wk period).Dr. SIS, PhD reported two side-effects in his original treatise on the App-O-Rama:

1. All new accounts opened on the same day only counted as one new account, and
2. All inquiries that posted on the same day only counted as a single inquiry.

I haven't seen those same notations in my FAKO reports, and can't really tell whether this is the case with my FAKO scores. It may only be seen from specific CRAs, or on specific types of applications (loans?)...I can't recall exactly what type of form / credit report he pulled it off of.

My thought is that it may help, and it can't hurt. The "keeping each creditor from seeing the other creditor's inquiries" is the main reason I shoot for multiple inquiries on the same day.

One other method I employ to try to minimize damage is to try to spread out the inquiries across all three CRAs. Better to have 5 inquiries on each of TUC, EQF, and EXP, than all 15 inquiries on EXP. Even better to target TUC and EQF, where one can use bumpage to generate a clean bill of health in 50 days or less.

Bump for updates.