For those who have done AppORama, discuss the NEGATIVE impact and any adverse action

With more and more people attempting a variation of AppoRama, we should have a thread discussing the NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES of AppORama. As many know, I do not believe AppORama is the right strategy for everyone, and it is important to list the "cons" of AppORama so they can be weighed against the possible benefits.

Here's what I have noticed (most of this is obvious stuff, but we can compare notes):

1. Credit score drop. All the hard inquiries damage your credit and can keep your score depressed. I cant say what the exact drop was for me, since I also utilized cards after applying. 50-70pts would not be an uncommon AppoRama score drop. This depressed score can last for anywhere from 6 months-2 years (unless you perform bumpage, inquiry dispute or other tactics - visit creditnet.com if you need an explanation of these techniques).

2. Reduced mail solicitation for new cards.Some people think this is a good thing if they dont like junk mail, personally I used to LIKE getting CC offers. Since I have cards from all the major issuers, this may not affect those who still dont have cards from some issuers. They apps have now virtually dried up from my mailbox. I used to get 5-10 apps in the mail per week, now I may get 1-2. Usually the offers are for fee-based AMEX charge cards, or Capital One. I do not get solicited for MBNA, Chase/Bank One, Citi, Discover, etc.

3. Denials for new cards from same issuer In my AppORama II, I was denied by Discover and Citi bc of existing cards (though I did get 1 new Citi). So if a tasty new promo pops up, those who engage in AppORama may have a more difficult time getting it.

4. possible rate jacking hasnt happened to me (or I havent paid attention since I dont concern myself with nonpromo CC interest rates) but CC companies may jack rates of your existing lines due to perceived increased risk. Very dangerous for those who carry balances.

Post your additional list of negative factors you have encountered from your AppORamas...

My EQ FAKO score dropped 85 points. This is 30 points for the new accounts and/or recent inquiries, and 50 points for my additional $50K of debt. Before I was carrying a fair bit of 0% debt, and didn't get any worthwhile CC offers. I think this was in part due to having cards from most issuers, and in part from having only an average credit score (~720 before). Also, I got several rejections from various issuers (noteable Citi) for already having too many cards and/or applications pending.

my credit score dropped by aboiut 100 points.
my credit limits have been dropped by chase from 13,000 to 8,500 and by citi on one card from 10,000 to 300. so they may reduce credit limits. i have two more cards from citi they did not touch those cards.
and yes i no longer get solicitations from prime credit cards.
i get lot of calls from sub prime credit cards and they talk to me as if by giving a gold card they are doing a great favour upon me.

I signed up for about 20 cards and an auto loan on the same day. Dropped about 35 points on my score but have since made way way back up to my original 700 score. It took about 4 months to get back up there, with no bumpage or other tactics going on.

I did also receive a lot of new junk mail but that has since subsided as well.

tracysbeans, if it's 14 years old, I'd reopen it. The AppORama will bring down your average age of accounts, which is a negative, and the MF card will help offset that.

Dave, It does seem to be open with a $500 CL. I just though it was weird that out of the blue I just received a 0.00 statement from them.

The AppORama will bring down your average age of accounts, which is a negative,

I know my score was hurt by the AppOrama. I knew that going in. However I also knew I don't plan to need to worry about what my score is since I did my mortgage before the AppOrama. And in the future if my car dies I plan to pay cash for a another one! Plus When I did do my mortgage providing my income documents was more important to them then my Fico score! (Especially since it was a commercial loan!)

tracysbeans, I apologize if I was unclear. I wasn't sure whether that MF card was or wasn't open, my only point was if they had it closed in their systems (per your request), but still sent you statements, it might be worth reopening.

And I didn't mean to suggest you didn't know an ARA would hurt your score, or that it was a bad idea--not only is it not my business, but I have no idea of your specific circumstances.

My only thought there was that you could reduce this hit in the long haul by keeping older accounts open. HTH.

Dave I appreciate your suggestions. So do you feel doing a bumporama will help me?No problem.

A bumping effort will always help. If you want to do a new round of apps before 6-12 months, I'd probably put some bumpage in, but of course it will depend on your specific circumstances, goals, etc.

bk330ci said: I opened up a Bank One visa as part of an AppORama.

A few months later, they closed the account. Their reason was that I had too many open accounts and too many recent inquiries.

I also had several cards with outstanding balances < 50% utilization totalling $40-50k but they specifically said "oh we dont care about your balances, that is fine...we just have a problem with your total # of cards and inquiries"

They are the only one who has ever had an issue. I have several cards with AMEX, Citi, MBNA and none of them have ever said anything about total # of accounts though they are much more at risk.

I'm basically convinced Bank One is retarded and this has been confirmed by other posters' experiences in other threads
I hate Bank One for many reasons

SUCKISSTAPLES said: 1. Credit score drop. All the hard inquiries damage your credit and can keep your score depressed. I cant say what the exact drop was for me, since I also utilized cards after applying. 50-70pts would not be an uncommon AppoRama score drop. This depressed score can last for anywhere from 6 months-2 yearsMy last "app-o-rama" was over two years ago now (I talked about it here then, I think the term I used was "credit hari-kari" if someone wants to search), and I don't remember when it healed, but it was in well under two years. I think it was only a few months after I paid off the last balances.2. Reduced mail solicitation for new cards.Yeah, I think that's the case, but as I've repeatedly maintained here, you shouldn't be planning on getting any new credit for a while anyway if you do this -- that' the point, to get everything you can at once. So I'm not sure I see how this is a big deal. You'll get them again when everything is paid off, trust me.3. Denials for new cards from same issuer In my AppORama II, I was denied by Discover and Citi bc of existing cards (though I did get 1 new Citi). So if a tasty new promo pops up, those who engage in AppORama may have a more difficult time getting it.That's not because you did hte apporama, it's because you resist closing/consolidating old cards. AT&T & Citi allow 2 cards each, no matter how htey were opened (or how many others you've opened). And how many Discover cards do you want? i opend my first in an apporam type thing 2-3 years ago, and I opened the gas card last year, I had no problme getting it, in fact they even gave me a larger credit line on the second.4. possible rate jacking hasnt happened to me (or I havent paid attention since I dont concern myself with nonpromo CC interest rates) but CC companies may jack rates of your existing lines due to perceived increased risk. Very dangerous for those who carry balances.I dunno, I only carry balances on cards with promo rates, so I have no experience.

Finally, your list is missing the one permanent thing I did experience -- some other cards cut your credit limit due to high balances elsewhere. As a result of carrying > $100k on maxed out cards, Fleet decided to cut my credit limit on one of my cards with them form $11k to $500. And at $500 it still sits. I am keeping it open, without doing anything, just to see what happens. i figure if they cut my limit due to pulling my creidt & finding high risk, that maybe someday they might be pull my credit again & realize that a $500 limit for my profile is way out of whack. But, after two years with that $500 limit, nothing has happened yet (although they have provided me with some amusement, by sending me bal xfer checks for my $500 limit card that have minimum $30 fees! Uh, yeah, right ...)

DaveHanson said:

Busie23, how much debt and at what utilization %s were you at when your score moved back into the 700s?

I'm currently only using two cards: Citi platinum select Dividend, and Citi platinum select.

The Dividend is my daily driver and only has a limit of 1K on it. If I get close to the limit I send over a payment before the statement closes, if not I wait it out. Most months I get up to around the $850 area when the period ends. So I'm pushing 80-90% utilization on that guy, but always pay within a day or two of statement close. I have only had the card since my apporama back in May. And they opened it with a 10k limit.

I moved 9k of that line over to my regular platinum select, which had 14k on it (account was open since 97. Started off as student card, bumped up to platinum, etc..). BT's my car loan from capital one to the new 24k line via 0% for life offer. Started off with 18k on there now down to 16k. So that is at about 70% util.

I will occasionally use my other cards just to keep some activity on them, or if I will be making a big purchase and know it won't fit on the dividend card safely.

Score is currently at 683-695 at privacy gaurd. It was at 693-697 the day of the apporama.

What helps drive this is the fact that big direct mail marketers as Cap1 and Citi, can be very selective and target whom they want to mail to.

jludwick said: For those married app-o-rammites:

It made my wife uneasy having all that "debt". She understood the concept, but couldn't take the heat... So I canceled a few cards, and scaled back the 0% BTs.

We sleep better now. And my mind is not always working on how to squeeze more money out of the deal.

So, one negative can be added pressure on your relationships.

Also, what if an awesome opportunity comes along? I want the ability to jump on it. It would take me one or two weeks to fully unwind my scheme.


I do agree about the pressure on relationships!

That's why I STAY single I get to make ALL the decisions! Being so I gotta make sure I make the RIGHT decisions since I don't have anyone to fall back on OR blame!!

whodini said: jludwick said: We sleep better now. And my mind is not always working on how to squeeze more money out of the deal.Regardless of your wife's opinion, your mind needs to keep scheming if you want to build wealth-- for her mostly.

Thats RIGHT!!! Someone needs to keep the head out of the clouds when it comes to long term investing.

About the App O Rama, I have been on the slow track for the past 4-5 years applying for only 2-3 per year (when I can get a good intro offer or balance transfer) and this has pushed my credit line up very well and my FICO is a sweet number. I guess I like to stay under the radar to keep those 0% BT's coming my way. The problem is that $1400 that I have had for 4 years keeps getting given to the next card , but I guess that's thier problem. ha ha will keep it till I am old and grey if I have to.

Thanks SUCKISSTAPLES as always.

gotkevin said: jludwick said: For those married app-o-rammites:

It made my wife uneasy having all that "debt". She understood the concept, but couldn't take the heat... So I canceled a few cards, and scaled back the 0% BTs.

We sleep better now. And my mind is not always working on how to squeeze more money out of the deal.

So, one negative can be added pressure on your relationships.

Also, what if an awesome opportunity comes along? I want the ability to jump on it. It would take me one or two weeks to fully unwind my scheme.


I do agree about the pressure on relationships!

Does 'card w*ore' sound about right? That's what DH says every time I ask him to sign something. So the other half may not always agree with our mischief but they sure don't mind spending the rewards either.

I've been mid-app-o-rama for a while now. I have about $35,000 in 0% BTs, plus the Schwab and Sony card deals. I think I started in late April, and have been getting a card or two a month since then. I've also opened BOA and Citibank checking accounts. The only negative I've experienced is that I was denied a store credit card last week. Curious about it, I applied for a CC at a different store this week and was granted a very large credit limit.

So far, apart from that one denial, I haven't had any difficulties with my credit. I haven't pulled my score, but I'm still getting good credit limits, and none have been reduced. I don't carry a balance outside of my 0% BTs, so I haven't been tracking APRs on my non-0% cards.

Okay, I've got a question, I would just like to know if this is the norm. When we were applying for a refinancing for our house, since we have more than enough money in various liquid accounts (stock account, checking, commodities trading) to pay for our house (have about $250,000 liquid assets, we owe about $170,000 on our house), they automatically gave us their best rate. Is this the norm? If I have enough in our accounts to cover the house if I had to, do I really even need to worry about my credit score (unless it was really bad, then I can see that I might need to worry a little)?

What I've done wasn't much of an app-o-rama. BT-o-rama would be a better name. I took out 90K at 0% with a total combined CL of about 215K. Most of the balance was on four cards "loaded" at 90% of CL - $1. I forgot that one of them was enrolled in Credit Protector, and the fee took me over the magic 90% line.

10K CL on one of the cards with $8999.00 balance was immediately reduced to a few hundred above balance.

More upsetting, Chase and AM_EX just closed my cards over the weekend. I have rarely used them and had no current balance, but they were my two oldest cards (since 96) and had the highest CLs (25K on each). I also have 14K MR Options Points and I am not able to redeem them now.

Any advice on how to proceed to try getting them re-opened will be appreciated.

EugeneV, try making a large payment to one of the cards. That may "prove" you are not sinking (little do they know how savvy FWers are). Obviously cc metrics are such that escalating balances signal a red flag.

Bump again. There's got to be a lot more good info out there on this topic...