I have some fairly advanced strategy questions regarding my companies "Flexible Spending Account" (or "Health Care Spending Account"). For those unfamiliar with the basics, you may wish to read some of these archived threads: (or search on "flex")
First and foremost, FSAs are offer tax savings on expenses you were going to incur anyway. The quick summary is that you decide an amount to contribute (deducted tax free, evenly from each paychecks) prior to the start of the plan's year. Then you submit receipts for any qualified medical expenses for reimbursement, up to the annual amount you elected. The catch is that any money not claimed during the year is lost! FSAs are best for expenses you are fairly sure you will incur. Several often overlooked but qualified expenses include mileage costs for doctor's visits and OTC medications.
The basis for many common FSA strategies is this, from IRS publication 969 (a good reference on FSAs and more recent similar accounts)
Distributions from a health FSA must be paid only to reimburse you for qualified medical expenses you incurred during the period of coverage. You must be able to receive the maximum amount of reimbursement (the amount you have elected to contribute for the year) at any time during the coverage period, regardless of the amount you have actually contributed. The maximum amount you can receive tax free is the total amount you elected to contribute to the health FSA for the year. The most basic strategy applies when you are planning to quit your job and have anticipated medical expenses. You can get fully reimbursed for your full annual contribution amount (say $1200) while only having money taken out of the paychecks you actually receive prior to your departure (say $100/month for 3 months before you quit). No, you don't have to pay back the extra $900.
Certain "qualifying life events" allow you to change your annual contribution amount mid-year, including marriage, divorce, having a child, change in employment status, etc. Typically these changes must be made within 30 days of the event. I am interested in how this right to change your contribution mid-year might be used in a similar way to get the most benefit. Some ideas for strategies I've thought of include:
1. Start with a high amount, get fully reimbursed early in the year, and then reduce your contribution to $0 after the event. Same sort of result as above, but you can keep your job .
2. Start with a low* amount, wait until late in the year when the event occurs, and then increase your contribution. This allows the amount chosen to be more accurate. Also, if you increase your contribution drastically (ie. in excess of your last paycheck) at the end of year, you might still be able to claim the full amount while not having to pay in the full amount. (* - I think a low amount might be better than zero since you could still submit receipts from the whole time you're covered under the plan)
Does anyone have any experience in doing these sorts of things? What has worked for you, and what problems have you run into? Are there any general restrictions on increasing or decreasing your contribution that you have encountered?
Thanks in advance!
PS I'll head off the first response to all these questions - yes I've read my benefits info, will be talking to my HR department, and have already made some general inquires. For example, they require a letter from your current employer to confirm ending employment. Having a specific plan in mind ahead of time seems better than walking in and asking how I can get the most out of my plan without paying for it .
Ok, here's our situation. We were trying to get pregnant and figured at some point this year it would happen. So, we picked a certain amount for our FSA during the enrollment period last December. Granted, it was a little lower than what is necessary for our out of pocket expenses, but we also didn't know whether or not we could even get pregnant (first child). We got really lucky and my wife got pregnant right around January 1. We couldn't have timed it better since (1) our insurance company's calendar year is January 1 through December 31 (we won't have to meet deductibles twice for the same pregnancy) and (2) the due date is in September, leaving us plenty of time to increase our contributions for the last few months this year. If you're planning on having a baby, do your best to time it so that your insurance calendar (if you have deductibles) and FSA calendar are taken into account. Granted, getting pregnant is not something you can control, but it certainly is fun trying.
Incidentally (side note), we also got really lucky and signed up for short term disability insurance through her benefits department right before my wife was "diagnosed" as pregnant. I would also suggest to anybody trying to get pregnant to find out if you have this option. My wife is planning on using sick time and taking 6 weeks off after the birth. Because she'll be using sick time, she'll continue to get her paycheck. The supplemental insurance will "double pay" her a fraction of her salary during that same period of time. The premiums are about $50/month, but it's well worth it if you time it right considering you get back a lot more than $50 x ~9 months of pregnancy.
t0s9476
Happy Member
posted: Apr. 30, 2005 @ 8:28a
For your situation, I think getting pregnant in December is better. You won't need any check-up (thus no deductible) during the first month anyway. This will give August due date. Here in TX it's bad to have kid after Sep 2nd because he/she will miss the deadline for school (have to wait for the next year).
In my case, my ins start May 1st. But I don't have any deductible since I use HMO (or in Humana they call it point of service, POS).
juniorjam said: Ok, here's our situation. We were trying to get pregnant and figured at some point this year it would happen. So, we picked a certain amount for our FSA during the enrollment period last December. Granted, it was a little lower than what is necessary for our out of pocket expenses, but we also didn't know whether or not we could even get pregnant (first child). We got really lucky and my wife got pregnant right around January 1. We couldn't have timed it better since (1) our insurance company's calendar year is January 1 through December 31 (we won't have to meet deductibles twice for the same pregnancy) and (2) the due date is in September, leaving us plenty of time to increase our contributions for the last few months this year. If you're planning on having a baby, do your best to time it so that your insurance calendar (if you have deductibles) and FSA calendar are taken into account. Granted, getting pregnant is not something you can control, but it certainly is fun trying.
Incidentally (side note), we also got really lucky and signed up for short term disability insurance through her benefits department right before my wife was "diagnosed" as pregnant. I would also suggest to anybody trying to get pregnant to find out if you have this option. My wife is planning on using sick time and taking 6 weeks off after the birth. Because she'll be using sick time, she'll continue to get her paycheck. The supplemental insurance will "double pay" her a fraction of her salary during that same period of time. The premiums are about $50/month, but it's well worth it if you time it right considering you get back a lot more than $50 x ~9 months of pregnancy.
t0s9476 said: Here in TX it's bad to have kid after Sep 2nd because he/she will miss the deadline for school (have to wait for the next year)In CA it's "bad" to have a kid after Jan 1st for the reason you give above. Dec 31st and earlier start school like everyone else, even if only 4 years old.
juniorjam said: What's even crazier is that we'll make money by having a baby. Maybe not in the long run... What's even crazier is that it sounds an awful lot like many business plans.
I've thought before about these ways to scam/weasel money out of FSA programs. However, I think there is one hitch, but I never got around to looking it up to be certain.
As far as I know, the money for the FSA doesn't come from the company administering the plan. I thought it came from the employer. In other words, I set up a plan to put $1200 in my FSA. Jan 1, my employer pays the plan administrator the whole $1200, then my employer reclaims it from me at $100 per month. Then the plan administrator holds the money, dishes it out to me on request, and pockets whatever is left over.
The hitch here is that while the scam works if you are leaving your job, it might not work quite so well if you remain employed during the process. Your employer might not be so happy about you trying to pull one over on THEM. However, there might not actually be a problem here, because you might just end up unemployed anyway.
P.S. Of course, if you work for a large employer, this might just slip through the cracks, but I'm sure a smaller company would notice.
xerty
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Apr. 30, 2005 @ 2:59p
LordKronos said: As far as I know, the money for the FSA doesn't come from the company administering the plan. I thought it came from the employer. In other words, I set up a plan to put $1200 in my FSA. Jan 1, my employer pays the plan administrator the whole $1200, then my employer reclaims it from me at $100 per month. Then the plan administrator holds the money, dishes it out to me on request, and pockets whatever is left over.
I'm pretty sure it comes from the employer, and that this is a risk they accept by offering the plan under the IRS's rules. Remember that FSA's are "use it or lose it", and the company gets to keep any "lost" funds at the end of the year. They ususally use this extra money to defer the plan's costs, although some nicer companies have been known to return forfeited funds equally to all participating employees (note that IRS tax shelter rules prohibit them from returning in proportion to money lost by each employee, for example).
xerty To get back on topic - one I've also done some research onThe most basic strategy applies when you are planning to quit your job and have anticipated medical expenses. You can get fully reimbursed for your full annual contribution amount (say $1200) while only having money taken out of the paychecks you actually receive prior to your departure (say $100/month for 3 months before you quit). No, you don't have to pay back the extra $900.Exactly the way my company plan works1. Start with a high amount, get fully reimbursed early in the year, and then reduce your contribution to $0 after the event. Same sort of result as above, but you can keep your jobOf course2. Start with a low* amount, wait until late in the year when the event occurs, and then increase your contribution. This allows the amount chosen to be more accurate. Also, if you increase your contribution drastically (ie. in excess of your last paycheck) at the end of year, you might still be able to claim the full amount while not having to pay in the full amount. (* - I think a low amount might be better than zero since you could still submit receipts from the whole time you're covered under the plan)Nope. My plan does two things. 1. The maximum you can contribute to the plan per month is the annual max / 12. So if you raise your contribution during the year due to a life cycle event, you are limited by how much you can increase by the annual max /12 2. How much can be withdrawn is limited by total annual contribution.
What really amazes me is that more people do NOT take advantage of FSAs! Just among a small group of people I know at work I was the ONLY one participating. At first I thought they didn't understand that benefit, but it turned out they were just too lazy and were worried about the "use it or lose it factor." Three of them were people with kids so you KNOW they are going to be at the doctor a few times this year.
i've gotten advances on the FSA and quit thus pocketing the difference. very simple. and i upped my contribution after my wedding to make up the difference.
since last year, FSA allows you to buy OTC medication like tylenol or antacid. so keep those receipts. FSA still don't cover vitamins tho.
I'm on my second year doing the FSA. The money comes out of your check pre-tax over the course of the year, but you can spend the whole thing as soon as the year starts. You cannot cancel contributions once they start. I tried that. They will take the money out all year long. Supposedly if you spend it all before leaving the company you won't have to pay it back, but I have no first hand knowledge.
I just had quite a scare with my flex account - I requested reimbursement for the downpayment on my kids braces ($400) and they rejected it. They said cosmetic stuff like braces is a no-no. After I crapped my pants, I called and finally got someone who said if the orthodontist wrote in saying it was medically necessary, they'd pay. Got the guy to fax in a letter to that effect, and sure enough my reimbursement came a week later.
There are some things which are covered but you need to get a note from your dr to push it.
These are just a couple which I had in the past but were approved.
gym membership heart rate monitor ankle brace certain dental work
Rambler said: I just had quite a scare with my flex account - I requested reimbursement for the downpayment on my kids braces ($400) and they rejected it. They said cosmetic stuff like braces is a no-no. After I crapped my pants, I called and finally got someone who said if the orthodontist wrote in saying it was medically necessary, they'd pay. Got the guy to fax in a letter to that effect, and sure enough my reimbursement came a week later.
UltimateAtrophy
Member
posted: Apr. 30, 2005 @ 8:21p
How about reduced eye straining LCD monitors (as opposed to CRTs) for people who stare at computer monitors all day? I have a friend who said he tried it this year, but I still haven't heard if it was accepted or rejected.
xerty
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Apr. 30, 2005 @ 8:55p
Rambler said: I just had quite a scare with my flex account - I requested reimbursement for the downpayment on my kids braces ($400) and they rejected it. They said cosmetic stuff like braces is a no-no. Sounds like someone was giving you an unnecessary hard time - braces are specifically mentioned as allowed in IRS pub 502. Teeth whiting, for example, is not as it falls under the "cosmetic" category.
hotcouponmama
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Apr. 30, 2005 @ 9:10p
I don't think that all FSA's get paid up front by the employer. My FSA will only release funds after they have been made available by my employer. So as an example, I submitted a request for daycare once before my employer's contribution had hit the FSA company, so the company denied the first claim since there were no funds to cover it. I do work for the state government, so maybe that's an arrangement they have with the FSA contractor.
My one little thing that I do to get my funds out (I got back a decent percentage this way) is I use coupons on my OTCs and then the FSA contractor reimburses on the full amount, not the amount I paid after coupons.
Everyone's probably familiar with the strategy of scheduling Lasik surgery in January so that it's financed over the year through the FSA. A side benefit is that if your company crashes (I've survived two companies crashing in the last 5 years), you're off the hook for the rest of the payments that year. [Got hosed out of vacation pay though]
manuel
Greedy Member
posted: May. 1, 2005 @ 12:30a
hotcouponmama said: I don't think that all FSA's get paid up front by the employer. My FSA will only release funds after they have been made available by my employer. So as an example, I submitted a request for daycare once before my employer's contribution had hit the FSA company, so the company denied the first claim since there were no funds to cover it. I do work for the state government, so maybe that's an arrangement they have with the FSA contractor.
My one little thing that I do to get my funds out (I got back a decent percentage this way) is I use coupons on my OTCs and then the FSA contractor reimburses on the full amount, not the amount I paid after coupons.
Very few Dependent Care accounts are fully funded up front - I've heard from others that Microsoft does that, but mine certainly doesn't. Suppose this might be a money issues, most DCAP plans have 5K or so at max while most medical FSAs are more like 1.8K.
Coupons are a nice way to ebb money out, as is the mileage thing. And rebates like the Drugstore chains do. Being unscrupulous I also pick up other receipts in the parking lot and if they have fsa stuff claim them.
igt123
Senior Member
posted: May. 1, 2005 @ 12:33p
Do not underestimate what a great benefit this is. This is pre-tax money, eye-glasses, Dental crowns, root canal, these can add up to a lot of money even with the copay. Humidifiers, dehumidifiers, air purifiiers, condoms, birth control, arm braces, ankle braces, Eye glasses, and the other stuff mentioned.. these are all ligit flex expenses. In a use it or lose it account it works both ways. As mentioned if you don't spend the full amount you lose it. If you contribute say 5k in January, have lasix in February and youve only contributed say 100.00 bucks so far, you will still be reimbursed for the 5k even though you have not contributed 5k, then if you quit or are layed off in March you DO NOT owe the money back. This is for use it or lose it type flex spending accts. Ask your plan administrator. If worse comes to worse and you have money you need to spend, buy a pair of 2000.00 eyewear and sell it .
I'm not an expert by any means, but aren't these going to be obsolete once the Health Savings accounts go mainstream. With those, you get the same pre-tax benefits but you don't lose it at the end of the year and they continue to accumulate year after year. Looks like it's going to be THE way to save for health costs later in life. Only problem is very few institutions have them yet but that will change in a year or two. Anyone have more info on the differences, if any, between the two?
i'm going to stop using FSA and start with the HSA when they let you invest the funds in the stock market
manuel
Greedy Member
posted: May. 1, 2005 @ 3:03p
My understanding is that the HSAs are paired up with high deductible medical coverage - and at least thus far most big and middle sized companies have stuck with traditional HMO/PPO style coverage. As the co-pays and caps continue to pinch my guess is FSAs will contine to do just fine - for those willing to do a little paperwork.
YuckyIOM
New Member
posted: May. 1, 2005 @ 9:46p
what are some strategies if you are the only employer and shareholder of an s-corp?
Fredo
Thrifty Member
posted: May. 2, 2005 @ 11:24a
I switched jobs twice in 2003 and was able to max out both FSA's although I had contributed very little to them. The companies (one was a large financial institution and the other was a temporary employment firm) did not require me to reimburse them. Probably not a good strategy for your professional advancement but something to think about if you are changing jobs.
This year, I contributed the most I have ever done before: $1,000. I should have no problem reaching this number with eyeglass, contacts lenses, contact lens solutions, some OTC allergy medicines, etc. I am also using receipts from my girlfriend (who lives with me) and have not a single one rejected.
I also use coupons ($1 to $2.50 off) on OTC medications and contact lens solutions. I get reimbursed for the full amount. And then there are rebates on top of that.
Most people in my office do not take advantage of the FSA accounts as it is just easier not to deal with the extra work. Also, many do not like to see this taken out of their paychecks as they might live on limited means. You can't think about living on a weekly, bi-weekly or monthly basis.
manuel
Greedy Member
posted: May. 2, 2005 @ 11:33a
I have my parents, siblings & friends at work who buy OTC stuff give me their receipts - like Fredo mentioned I've never had trouble using them. That and the mileage for same (funny I don't remember that drive) tends to use up about half my FSA contribution.
msecc
Member
posted: May. 2, 2005 @ 12:45p
For those that are lazy, who don't keep receipts as often as they should.... I get a co-pay recap from each of my Dr's in December of the plan year. I get a print out of all of my perscription co-pay from my pharmacy (YMMV)(me=CVS)in December. I get a print out of all eligible OTC purchases that are tract using the comstomer care loyalty/savings card (from CVS website). I take all of this and submit them at the end of the year to our plan administrator and they've taken them in place of receipts the last two years.
Ofcourse, this is easier if you don't go to many Dr's, you get all your prescriptions at one or two places, and have a "loyal/savings" card that will print out your OTC purchases. For any out of ordinary Dr I use, I keep the co-pay receipt. My grocery store (Stop&Shop) wasn't much help in trying to get a print out for OTC, so now I try to buy OTC at CVS when things are on sale/coupon.
This year my healthcare FSA has been automatically reimbursing me for my doctor's and dental copays. I pay the bill say on 3/15, and get an automatic deposit about 3-4 weeks later. Very nice and no hassles.
msecc said: For those that are lazy, who don't keep receipts as often as they should.... I get a co-pay recap from each of my Dr's in December of the plan year. I get a print out of all of my perscription co-pay from my pharmacy (YMMV)(me=CVS)in December. I get a print out of all eligible OTC purchases that are tract using the comstomer care loyalty/savings card (from CVS website). I take all of this and submit them at the end of the year to our plan administrator and they've taken them in place of receipts the last two years.
Ofcourse, this is easier if you don't go to many Dr's, you get all your prescriptions at one or two places, and have a "loyal/savings" card that will print out your OTC purchases. For any out of ordinary Dr I use, I keep the co-pay receipt. My grocery store (Stop&Shop) wasn't much help in trying to get a print out for OTC, so now I try to buy OTC at CVS when things are on sale/coupon.
Somewhat related, our FSA plan allows us to submit claims up to sometime around March 31 of the following year for the current year. Timewise this is a good plan as long as you don't mind being without the money that long.
ccrzhh
Senior Member - 1K
posted: May. 3, 2005 @ 1:29a
miserly said: FSA still don't cover vitamins tho. Unless they are prescribed
ccrzhh
Senior Member - 1K
posted: May. 3, 2005 @ 1:30a
juniorjam said: Somewhat related, our FSA plan allows us to submit claims up to sometime around March 31 of the following year for the current year. Timewise this is a good plan as long as you don't mind being without the money that long. Some plans issue debit cards - no paperwork. But no CC rebates too...
SeriusBlack
Senior Member - 4K
posted: May. 3, 2005 @ 2:06a
Of all the discussion here I think you are missing out on something that comes if you are terminated and invested into your FSA account. It's called COBRA, and important discussion can be found here, here, and most definitely here. When I was terminated from my company, imagine my astonishment when I was told that I would be able to claim the remaining money that was prefunded. So, when I left I had contributed $350/mo to the fund and could claim every remaining penny as long as I had receipts for the qualifying expenses.
update: My company (General Electric) prefunded the FSAO for $3,000 before I left the company. Thirty days after leaving, I chose to continue my FSA using Cobra. You pay the exact fee you were while employed (in my case, $519 through Cobra but %508.62 while employed with GE) plus 2% administrative fee.
Luckily, I had Crowns on my teeth, which ate up $1,714. Chiropractic bills, massage therapy, and my final two dental payments (braces) ate up $2,997.00. This was all from January 1-April 4. To say that I am ecstatic is an understatement! The FSA came in very handy!
This shows how low the Fatwallete Finance can go. WHo knows what you get when you plan your timing for minor benifits. Satan?
Alcibiades said: t0s9476 said: Here in TX it's bad to have kid after Sep 2nd because he/she will miss the deadline for school (have to wait for the next year)In CA it's "bad" to have a kid after Jan 1st for the reason you give above. Dec 31st and earlier start school like everyone else, even if only 4 years old.
BeeGee
Member
posted: May. 10, 2005 @ 9:38a
So if I encur $1100 in medical expense in March but I have only commited $600 for the year and have a baby in November, can I increase my contribution to $1100 and claim the leftover $500? This is exactly my situation right now. Also if we are expecting the baby to be born in November, can we make the change now?
Thanks a lot, this is a very interesting discussion.
jonesle7
Senior Member
posted: May. 10, 2005 @ 10:42a
I milked my FSA account dry immediately prior to leaving my former employer in 2004. It was approximately an extra $400 to 500 worth of orthotics, medications, and band aids but it really wasn't acquiring the merchandise that satisfied me as much as it was sticking it to this employer.
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