Well, I think "How to buy happiness" would be a more constructive topic for discussion here on fatwallet finance, but the basis of my title comes from an interesting research paper I stumbled upon today from the MIT Press:
Brief excerpt: An enduring paradox in the literature on human happiness is that although the rich are significantly happier than the poor within any country at any moment, average happiness levels change very little as people’s incomes rise in tandem over time.1 Richard Easterlin and others have interpreted these observations to mean that happiness depends on relative rather than absolute income.2
In this essay I offer a slightly different interpretation of the evidence–namely, that gains in happiness that might have been expected to result from growth in absolute income have not materialized because of the ways in which people in affluent societies have generally spent their incomes.
In effect, I wish to propose two different answers to the question “Does money buy happiness?” Considerable evidence suggests that if we use an increase in our incomes, as many of us do, simply to buy bigger houses and more expensive cars, then we do not end up any happier than before. But if we use an increase in our incomes to buy more of certain inconspicuous goods–such as freedom from a long commute or a stressful job–then the evidence paints a very different picture. The less we spend on conspicuous consumption goods, the better we can afford to alleviate congestion; and the more time we can devote to family and friends, to exercise, sleep, travel, and other restorative activities. On the best available evidence, reallocating our time and money in these and similar ways would result in healthier, longer– and happier–lives.
[Appended from my later post]
If possible I'd like to go beyond the philosophical or a discussion of only the research itself and actually brainstorm ideas for "long term happiness bang for the buck" if such a thing makes any sense. The goal is to devote more time "to family and friends, to exercise, sleep, travel, and other restorative activities" with the result of "healthier, longer– and happier–lives" (to quote the above article).
The things already mentioned in the research are the obvious (save money instead of wasting it, so you can ultimately work fewer hours. Find a job and/or house that enables shorter commute times. Do not move towards isolation - i.e. no neighbors).
Happiness and long life are highly correlated. Many of the ideas for achieving both involve reducing stress. This recent article on aging covers many of the categories mentioned in the Robert Frank article.
Some other ideas:
Category - exercise
Join some amateur sports team or activity. Not only is it great exercise, but it can make for good comradery with friends. A friend of mine just got really into road biking - he does this with coworkers several times a week. My brother races "quads" with his father in law. I joined an indoor soccer league last winter (hadn't played soccer in over 15 years, and there were people there of all ages). I also took up kayaking a couple years ago, which ties in well with camping vacations (which are also cheap by the way!). To me, hiking & camping, going out in nature, are very "restorative".
Category - family
I'm a big believer in "the family vacation", which is typically a week out of the year, but if you can get away with it, do it more often. Anyway, one of the most memorable vacations I've taken was actually a trip my wife and I took with my in-laws. We rented a house (cheaper than hotels and more amenities!) in a tropical island, and had a blast. One thing we do is take "crazy pictures" (funny pictures) which just seems to make the whole experience all the more fun and memorable. Anyway, even though its been a couple years, every time I think about that vacation I can't help but smile. I think another thing that contributes to happiness is trying new things, and perhaps just as worthwhile - being with people you love when they try new things (which incidentally, I think is where the major joy of raising your own kids probably comes from - even though I don't have kids of my own yet). For example, being with my in-laws as they experienced snorkeling and deep sea fishing for the first time was immensely entertaining.
Another in this category: You would not believe how many strange reactions I get when I tell people every Wednesday night is "date night" with my wife. "Why do you still date, aren't you already married?" or "Every week?". Yes, once a week "date night" with the spouse definitely fills the "happy" meter, plus its something to look forward to in the middle of the week. And no, we aren't newlyweds. In fact, we didn't invent date night until after several years of marriage. Throwing something crazy into the mix is always good for creating memories that will last a lifetime, but they don't always have to be elaborate either. Making a meal together, or just going for a walk while discussing something interesting all qualify.
Finally - an idea I think my wife and I invented that may sound strange but you should try it. This could just as easily be in the friends category by the way... Rent a comedy movie, and decide ahead of time that you are going to laugh at everything, even if it isn't really funny. The mere fact that other people are laughing will force you to laugh anyway, this is SO MUCH fun. Just make sure everyone in the room is fully on board with the concept before the movie starts or you won't get the desired effect. The thing is, you won't know at the end of the movie if it was actually a great comedy, or if you just made it feel like one. Either way - you will have a great time and feel great afterwards. I think laughter is probably one of the best things you can do for your physical & mental health. One thing I've heard of is "laughter groups" which seems almost a little TOO odd but I wouldn't mind trying it ONCE maybe. These groups of people just get together and start laughing - at absolutely nothing. At first its forced, but after a few seconds, you can't control it and you are just laughing because everyone else is. It's supposedly very therapeutic, but I don't know how you find these groups or where they exist (I'll probably stick to the movie idea).
Category - friends
I think just spending more time with friends and neighbors is key. I know its almost cliche now, but since the whole poker craze began, I've been playing cards with neighbors once a month (about 10 guys). I definitely enjoy this a lot and would consider it "restorative". Assuming your skills are as good as everyone else's this shouldn't cost you any money over time. That's what they keep telling me anyway
Inviting groups of people over for "game night" also falls in this category. These can be some of the most entertaining nights of the year. Also a good way to get to know new people. Some games that are good for this: Cranium, Scatergories, Mad Gab, I know there are many others... with smaller groups, yahtzee, dominos, card games, etc. millions of great choices.
Vacations, cookouts, camping, hiking, etc. can all apply to the "friends" category.
Category - sleep
OK - it might seem odd to even include this category. But I have a couple of thoughts on this. First - I am a much happier person when I get 8 hours of sleep. I've actually done a LOT of "sleep research". Not everyone has the same sleep requirements, some only need 7 hours, others need 9. If you find yourself "sleeping in" on weekends (or sleeping longer), its actually a sure sign that you aren't getting enough sleep during the week. Your health suffers when you don't get enough sleep.
Dreaming - somewhat unrelated to the above, but another hobby of mine that falls into the "sleep" category is Lucid Dreaming. I don't want to divert the thread into something off-topic - so if you are interested - just follow my link and/or see if your library has the book "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming" by Stephen LaBerge, Ph.D. and Howard Rheingold. There are many books on the subject, but this is the best (and incidentally, the only book on the subject I've found to be worth reading!). Anyway, most people don't realize that you can even increase your happiness WHILE YOU SLEEP!
Category - giving
This is the only category not mentioned in the original article. Anyway, I think giving to charity is another way to "buy happiness" so to speak. Things like habitat for humanity (helping to build a house for someone in a desperate situation), or the million other service organizations out there. I'm involved with Big Brothers Big Sisters where I mentor a boy - we basically just get together a couple times a month - play baseball, watch movies, hang out. There are millions of kids growing up with no father present - while you might not think you can do anything to make a difference - you can. Similarly I give financially to causes that help underprivileged children in 3rd world countries. Note: I don't give either time or money because I expect "happiness" out of it, I just think that the more people in general who give, the better off society is - which leads to higher overall "happiness". I also think everyone's quality of life improves when there are fewer people living in desperation or involved in crime, etc. I'm also motivated because I am a Christian, and I just know inside it's the right thing to do.
Well - I've rambled for way to long... I would really love to see others' ideas as I've never really come across a discussion like this before.
I know some people are wondering, "What's this have to do with finances?" And my response is: "EVERYTHING".
Users like you can add images, links and other relevant information about this topic.
posted: Jun. 13, 2005 @ 4:11p
UncaMikey
Happy Member
posted: Jun. 13, 2005 @ 4:26p
Interesting excerpt, thanks for sharing.
While I don't agree with most Americans' desire for more and more "stuff", I do not want to talk them out of their obsession. Our investments depend on people buying their way to happiness!
BankruptThem
Senior Member - 4K
posted: Jun. 13, 2005 @ 4:38p
MarketVViz said: Well, I think "How to buy happiness" would be a more constructive topic for discussion here on fatwallet finance, but the basis of my title comes from an interesting research paper I stumbled upon today from the MIT Press:
Brief excerpt: An enduring paradox in the literature on human happiness is that although the rich are significantly happier than the poor within any country at any moment, average happiness levels change very little as people’s incomes rise in tandem over time.1 Richard Easterlin and others have interpreted these observations to mean that happiness depends on relative rather than absolute income.2
In this essay I offer a slightly different interpretation of the evidence–namely, that gains in happiness that might have been expected to result from growth in absolute income have not materialized because of the ways in which people in affluent societies have generally spent their incomes.
In effect, I wish to propose two different answers to the question “Does money buy happiness?” Considerable evidence suggests that if we use an increase in our incomes, as many of us do, simply to buy bigger houses and more expensive cars, then we do not end up any happier than before. But if we use an increase in our incomes to buy more of certain inconspicuous goods–such as freedom from a long commute or a stressful job–then the evidence paints a very different picture. The less we spend on conspicuous consumption goods, the better we can afford to alleviate congestion; and the more time we can devote to family and friends, to exercise, sleep, travel, and other restorative activities. On the best available evidence, reallocating our time and money in these and similar ways would result in healthier, longer– and happier–lives.
I like this excerpt so much that I have saved it in MS Word as a document, and am planning on sharing it with friends & family.
I believe that is one of the most efficient and intelligent statements on the correlation between money and happiness I have ever read.
dactile
Ancient Member
posted: Jun. 13, 2005 @ 4:45p
Many times, I've repeated one of the wisest quotes re: wealth I've ever heard. And it comes from a source you wouldn't necessarily expect to be very introspective: Paul Stanley, lead singer of KISS. He said, "... all money makes possible is for you to stop worrying about money. Then you have freedom to live your life."
BTW, I couldn't remember the exact quote, but dug it up on this site of quotes re: money. Link
I wish that there were an adjective to describe people who can see further than the consumeristic hype, those who use money for leverage, for power, for freedom, etc., rather than to simply buy stuff.
Bob Frank is a very smart guy. More important, he writes insightfully in the area between applied economics and moral philosophy where too little work has been done. His work on the "winner takes all" trend in the contemporary economy has been especially influential. Good to see him turning his attention to the relationship between wealth and happiness.
xerty
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jun. 13, 2005 @ 8:25p
I remember reading that some poll asked people how much income they made, and how much they would need to be "happy". Apparently the result, largely independent of the absolute level of income, as "twice as much as I currently make". Fits right in with OP's view that spending money on all the stuff you're hoping for never gets you there, since most people just keep finding new stuff they think they need.
Substituting inanimate objects for “real” happiness is the path of least resistance between now and the inevitable end of our existence. Assuming you’ve got the wherewithal, it’s always less painful accumulating junk--since cultivating relationships is precarious and emotionally expensive. Facing “real” life hurts.
And what is our reward for buying all that crap we don’t need? Merely a fleeting, euphoric rush, followed by guilt. The euphoria never lasts long enough, but if we buy enough garbage often enough, before we realize it, too late: times up. But we’ve accomplished our real goal: avoidance. And just before the end we pray this really was all just a dress rehearsal.
All right. So beat me with a wet noodle for bringing everyone down.
tooshy
Frivolous Member
posted: Jun. 14, 2005 @ 2:51a
It's funny that we need to remind ourselves in this country that we cannot buy happiness when we save only 1% of income (shouldn't we already know)....at the other end of the spectrum are countries like Singapore and China where savings are up to half of their very small income. I wonder who is happier?
workingonit
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 14, 2005 @ 3:09a
I regard money as a means of getting my life set up in such a way that I'll need very little of the stuff: Tiny solar-powered house on a piece of land big enough for a good vegetable garden (which is year-round here in N. CA), so I can keep expenses within the bounds of my pension, social security & whatever investments I'll have cobbled together by then. Budget projections look very encouraging, as my needs are few and wants are minimal.
tooshy said: It's funny that we need to remind ourselves in this country that we cannot buy happiness when we save only 1% of income (shouldn't we already know)....at the other end of the spectrum are countries like Singapore and China where savings are up to half of their very small income. I wonder who is happier?
Looking at some happiness statistics on the web countries with high savings like China are not exactly high on the scale either. Another reason for high savings in Asia is a lack of social security.
Below are links to happiness by country statistics
Most surveys confirm that money does not buy happiness.
xerty
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jun. 14, 2005 @ 7:18a
GermanExpat said: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3157570.stm Hmm, Nigeria is on the top of that happiness list! I bet it's just another scam to get us to visit their country and help the residents with their various banking woes. How can they be happy when they are so close to liberating their uncle's $40M but I keep refusing to help them? (I looked around more, and Nigeria really did rank 1st!)
xerty said: GermanExpat said: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3157570.stm Hmm, Nigeria is on the top of that happiness list! I bet it's just another scam to get us to visit their country and help the residents with their various banking woes. How can they be happy when they are so close to liberating their uncle's $40M but I keep refusing to help them? (I looked around more, and Nigeria really did rank 1st!)
and look in Nigeria all they wanna do is buy out motorcycles, cars, and other costly items and pay with Western Union. That is what makes them happy when people actually ship the items.
tooshy
Frivolous Member
posted: Jun. 14, 2005 @ 10:18a
GermanExpat said: Looking at some happiness statistics on the web countries with high savings like China are not exactly high on the scale either. Another reason for high savings in Asia is a lack of social security.
Below are links to happiness by country statistics
Most surveys confirm that money does not buy happiness.
Thanks for doing some searching for us....an interesting excerpt from the second article:
The researchers for World Values Survey described the desire for material goods as "a happiness suppressant".
They say happiness levels have remained virtually the same in industrialised countries since World War II, although incomes have risen considerably.
The exception is Denmark, where people have become more satisfied with life over the last three decades.
Happiness suppressant...interesting way of putting it?
Notice the happiest countries as the study mentioned are those that permit a high degree of personal satisfaction and personal expression. However, I think it may be a bell shaped curve where we reach a certain plateau and to keep from falling backward we need to make good lifestyle choices as well as have favorable governmental policy. I think we are probably on the downward slope of the bell curve right now. The article mentioned that policy makers are interested in happiness surveys...that's good news.
About Chinese savings, you are absolutely correct. The reason is the lack of social security as they transition from their birth to grave government reliance. We should take a hint here if we proceed too far with Bush's ownership society, that it may create insecurity, however for Americans who save too little maybe that's a good thing.
adaniel007
Frivolous Member
posted: Jun. 14, 2005 @ 1:01p
If a child was born into this world with an ownership of a piece of the society's wealth, how happy would this person be as opposed to someone who was born with nothing?
Frank's thought experiment between two societies that make different choices intentionally obscures a critical factor: whether those choices are made freely by individuals or imposed on individuals by government. It seems obvious to me that the latter would decrease happiness, and it's not obvious whether the inherent advantages of the alternate choices would outweigh the happiness decrease caused by reduced freedom. Better to just ignore the freedom aspect, as Frank does.
Frank's article does, however, make an important point about the cost of congested commutes. He unwitting makes a great case for widening roads and for the sale and development of extensive public landholdings in suburban areas. Parks are great, but they give less happiness than congested commutes take away.
Funny that Frank blames the free market for making the wrong decision, when the lack of adequate road capacity is strictly a function of government. Oh well, we all have our ideological blind spots.
Frank's central findings on mistaken estimation of future happiness are fascinating. I just wish he hadn't overreached with the social science BS.
Here's a thought experiment: Suppose Society A is populated with Humans that buy houses averaging 4000 square feet through their own individual choices, and Society B is populated with Aliens that buy houses averaging 3000 square feet through their own individual choices. How can we change Humans into Aliens?
Is it possible to go beyond the philosophical, and beyond discussing the research results themselves? I'd like to brainstorm ideas for "long term happiness bang for the buck" if such a thing makes any sense. The goal is to devote more time "to family and friends, to exercise, sleep, travel, and other restorative activities" with the result of "healthier, longer– and happier–lives" (to quote the original article).
The things already mentioned in the research are the obvious (save money instead of wasting it, so you can ultimately work fewer hours. Find a job and/or house that enables shorter commute times. Do not move towards isolation - i.e. no neighbors).
Some other ideas:
Category - exercise
Join some amateur sports team or activity. Not only is it great exercise, but it can make for good comradery with friends. A friend of mine just got really into road biking - he does this with coworkers several times a week. My brother races "quads" with his father in law. I joined an indoor soccer league last winter (hadn't played soccer in over 15 years, and there were people there of all ages). I also took up kayaking a couple years ago, which ties in well with camping vacations (which are also cheap by the way!). To me, hiking & camping, going out in nature, are very "restorative".
Category - family
I'm a big believer in "the family vacation", which is typically a week out of the year, but if you can get away with it, do it more often. Anyway, one of the most memorable vacations I've taken was actually a trip my wife and I took with my in-laws. We rented a house (cheaper than hotels and more amenities!) in a tropical island, and had a blast. One thing we do is take "crazy pictures" (funny pictures) which just seems to make the whole experience all the more fun and memorable. Anyway, even though its been a couple years, every time I think about that vacation I can't help but smile. I think another thing that contributes to happiness is trying new things, and perhaps just as worthwhile - being with people you love when they try new things (which incidentally, I think is where the major joy of raising your own kids probably comes from - even though I don't have kids of my own yet). For example, being with my in-laws as they experienced snorkeling and deep sea fishing for the first time was immensely entertaining.
Another in this category: You would not believe how many strange reactions I get when I tell people every Wednesday night is "date night" with my wife. "Why do you still date, aren't you already married?" or "Every week?". Yes, once a week "date night" with the spouse definitely fills the "happy" meter, plus its something to look forward to in the middle of the week. And no, we aren't newlyweds. In fact, we didn't invent date night until after several years of marriage. Throwing something crazy into the mix is always good for creating memories that will last a lifetime, but they don't always have to be elaborate either. Making a meal together, or just going for a walk while discussing something interesting all qualify.
Finally - an idea I think my wife and I invented that may sound strange but you should try it. This could just as easily be in the friends category by the way... Rent a comedy movie, and decide ahead of time that you are going to laugh at everything, even if it isn't really funny. The mere fact that other people are laughing will force you to laugh anyway, this is SO MUCH fun. Just make sure everyone in the room is fully on board with the concept before the movie starts or you won't get the desired effect. The thing is, you won't know at the end of the movie if it was actually a great comedy, or if you just made it feel like one. Either way - you will have a great time and feel great afterwards. I think laughter is probably one of the best things you can do for your physical & mental health. One thing I've heard of is "laughter groups" which seems almost a little TOO odd but I wouldn't mind trying it ONCE maybe. These groups of people just get together and start laughing - at absolutely nothing. At first its forced, but after a few seconds, you can't control it and you are just laughing because everyone else is. It's supposedly very therapeutic, but I don't know how you find these groups or where they exist (I'll probably stick to the movie idea).
Category - friends
I think just spending more time with friends and neighbors is key. I know its almost cliche now, but since the whole poker craze began, I've been playing cards with neighbors once a month (about 10 guys). I definitely enjoy this a lot and would consider it "restorative". Assuming your skills are as good as everyone else's this shouldn't cost you any money over time. That's what they keep telling me anyway
Inviting groups of people over for "game night" also falls in this category. These can be some of the most entertaining nights of the year. Also a good way to get to know new people. Some games that are good for this: Cranium, Scatergories, Mad Gab, I know there are many others... with smaller groups, yahtzee, dominos, card games, etc. millions of great choices.
Vacations, cookouts, camping, hiking, etc. can all apply to the "friends" category.
Category - sleep
OK - it might seem odd to even include this category. But I have a couple of thoughts on this. First - I am a much happier person when I get 8 hours of sleep. I've actually done a LOT of "sleep research". Not everyone has the same sleep requirements, some only need 7 hours, others need 9. If you find yourself "sleeping in" on weekends (or sleeping longer), its actually a sure sign that you aren't getting enough sleep during the week. Your health suffers when you don't get enough sleep.
Dreaming - somewhat unrelated to the above, but another hobby of mine that falls into the "sleep" category is Lucid Dreaming. I don't want to divert the thread into something off-topic - so if you are interested - just follow my link and/or see if your library has the book "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming" by Stephen LaBerge, Ph.D. and Howard Rheingold. There are many books on the subject, but this is the best (and incidentally, the only book on the subject I've found to be worth reading!). Anyway, most people don't realize that you can even increase your happiness WHILE YOU SLEEP!
Category - Giving
This is the only category not mentioned in the original article. Anyway, I think giving to charity is another way to "buy happiness" so to speak. Things like habitat for humanity (helping to build a house for someone in a desperate situation), or the million other service organizations out there. I'm involved with Big Brothers Big Sisters where I mentor a boy - we basically just get together a couple times a month - play baseball, watch movies, hang out. There are millions of kids growing up with no father present - while you might not think you can do anything to make a difference - you can. Similarly I give financially to causes that help underprivileged children in 3rd world countries. Note: I don't give either time or money because I expect "happiness" out of it, I just think that the more people in general who give, the better off society is - which leads to higher overall "happiness". I also think everyone's quality of life improves when there are fewer people living in desperation or involved in crime, etc. I'm also motivated because I am a Christian, and I just know inside it's the right thing to do.
Well - I've rambled for way to long... I would really love to see others' ideas as I've never really come across a discussion like this before.
I know some people are wondering, "What's this have to do with finances?" And my response is: "EVERYTHING".
Folks, is HAPPINESS related to MARRIAGE inversely or directly? Any research on this topic? I did not read the full thread, so this could have been discussed earlier as well. I frankly think that if there is too much COMPROMISE on either side, it could be related inversely (lose-lose versus win-win)
Happiness to me is not related to financial ties of any sort. I'd love to make more money, just because thats the American way. We strive to always be better, if we didn't the capitalistic society that surrounds us would not be the powerful thing it is.
Happiness to me is a nice home that I enjoy, not something fancy that the friends and relatives have to oogle over cause you have it. I don't contribute to envy in that sense, I find it absurd. I buy the things I enjoy, and the things I take pride in owning. Again, does that mean I have everything I want? No, but I do have everything I need.
Family, roof over my head, food in my stomach, car in the garage, stable job.
If I won the lottery today and I had more money than I knew what to do with. Here's how I'd spend it, and this is the honest truth.
1.) Buy the house I'm looking at for cash, thats 86k down the tubes 2.) Buy a new car. I drool over the Subaru WRX STi, I always have. Its the car I've wanted to own for 10+ years now 3.) Pay off the debts remaining, and bank the rest for the kids college in 15-20 years and just live off the interest.
If I won a million, I'd have spent about $100-120k of it, and I'd have my life set. I'd go sit on the shore of the lake with a few dozen worms and a fishing pole just wasting time and living what I'd call the good life.
Ok, maybe I'm splurge and buy an old beat up cabin somewhere deep in the woods to go in the summer, but I'd probably not spend over 20-30k on it, it'd be some beat up rusty shack of a log cabin But to me, it'd be my castle.
I guess it all boils down to what you grew up with is what you strive to have today. If you grew up with a silver spoon in your mouth, you want two. If you grew up with nothing, then slightly more than nothing is all you really need to feel that aura of success and fulfillment. At least thats how I look at it. My family was never poor when I grew up, but we never made ourselves feel like we were rich either.
deepakaaa said: Folks, is HAPPINESS related to MARRIAGE inversely or directly? Any research on this topic? I did not read the full thread, so this could have been discussed earlier as well. I frankly think that if there is too much COMPROMISE on either side, it could be related inversely (lose-lose versus win-win)
I'm pretty sure there have been studies showing that married people live longer than unmarried people. If you backtrack, Darwin would say that married people are the "fittest". If you equate "fittest" with a positive trait, you would have to associate it with happiness over discontent. For this reason, I conclude that happiness and marriage are positively correlated (although from personal experience I'm not always sure ).
juniorjam mused: I'm pretty sure there have been studies showing that married people live longer than unmarried people.
Actually, I think the research shows that married men live longer than single men, and that married women have shorter life expectancies than single women.
The explination I read related to stress and diet for men (married men eat much better than single men) and resource use for women (married women tend to live for their families rather than themselves).
There is a great article in the Harvard Business Review called "One More Time: How Do You Motivate Employees?" by Frederick Herzberg which is now considered a classic that is very relavant to this discussion.
Summary: Perks/compensation/things of value fall into one of two categores: (1) hygenic OR (2) motavators. The difference is that for hygenic factors, having not enough de-motivates or makes you sad and having more of a hygenic item doesn't actually make you happier. For the motivators getting more of it makes you happier. As it is a business article the point is that companies shouldn't waste money by giving extra of the hygenic items, and should focus on motivating items to improve morale.
So what? According to the article money is hygenic. Not having enough money for basics is depressing. (OK so "basics" is up to interpretation, and the article refers to employees that think they are getting "less than fair".) But, once you have enough money to cover your needs (or a "fair" salary), additional money doesn't have the same "return" as money that covers your needs. Other items referred to by other posters, friends/family/vacations/free time/etc. etc. etc. could all be considered motavators. More of is always better, and has a higher "return" than just getting more money.
So, the moral of the storey is to "invest" in things that will provide the most happiness for your time and money.
myf16
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Jun. 17, 2005 @ 12:57a
deepakaaa said: Folks, is HAPPINESS related to MARRIAGE inversely or directly?
Directly. Researchers would like you to believe that marriage makes you happier, but it's the opposite: happy people are more attractive as mates.
Happiness and long life are highly correlated. Many of the ideas for achieving both involve reducing stress. This recent article on aging covers many of the categories mentioned in the Robert Frank article.
One thing I find fascinating that is mentioned not only in the above aging article, but has been mentioned in a bunch of recent articles lately including this recent article from the Wall Street Journal is that "Scientists estimate that the maximum potential life span of the human body is about 120 years". And from the aging article:
Scientists estimate that the maximum potential life span of the human body is about 120 years, give or take. They came to this conclusion after observing the oldest ages achieved by a variety of organisms, noting that aging, no matter what the species, seemed to follow a consistent mathematical formula. The maximum age achieved by any species appears to equal about six times the number of years from birth to biological maturity. So humans, who take about 20 years to reach maturity, have the potential to live six times as long as that -- or about 120 years. Notably, the oldest well-documented human age is 122.
The thing I find so fascinating is that this exact "120 years" figure given for the approximate maximum age for a human being that keeps coming up from scientists today was mentioned thousands of years ago - it comes directly out of the first book of the Bible (or Torah). See Genesis 6:3 (any translation!).
But back on topic. RE:Researchers would like you to believe that marriage makes you happier, but it's the opposite: happy people are more attractive as mates
I'm not sure these are mutually exclusive. You are right that happy people are more "desirable" as a mate, but I also believe that "marriage done right" leads directly to increased happiness for just about any two people. By "done right" I mean people that have a lifelong commitment to making the marriage successful. Its a little off topic, but anyone who believes the Hollywood myth that love is something you "fall in and out of" is very UNlikely to have a successful marriage or to increase long term happiness through marriage.
adityanm
Happy Member
posted: Jun. 30, 2005 @ 11:35p
It seems most people writing in this thread are still working or consider happiness is related to work. OTOH, I feel I have become happier since I retired since I have a secured income for the rest of my life and plan anything within my budget. When I was working, I was always afraid that my pay check may stop any day due to circumstances beyond my control.
Much depends on your means, your attitude and who you're hanging with. July 5, 2005: 1:51 PM EDT By Jeanne Sahadi, CNN/Money senior writer
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) – If you think financial success is important but you haven't quite achieved it – at least not relative to those you know - here's something you might not want to think about on your summer vacation: Your desire for more money and your conviction that your life would be so much better if you had it.
It's true that those with more money (as a group anyway) register higher levels of satisfaction with life than those with less, but not by nearly as much as you might think.
For example, if you make twice what you used to make, your level of satisfaction likely would be somewhat higher, but not twice as high.
What's more, one study shows that setting financial success as a goal can itself make you somewhat less happy.
An article in Psychological Science called "Zeroing in on the Dark Side of the American Dream" looked at results from a study done on more than 12,000 people from their freshman year in college through their late 30s.
With the exception of adults making over $290,000, those who said financial success was important were less happy than those in their income groups who thought it wasn't important.
The lower a respondent's household income, the more negatively his or her happiness was affected by valuing financial success. (The negative effect became negligible for those making over $87,500.)
"If you're not making money, it's much better to be convinced it's not important," said Norbert Schwarz, a professor of psychology at the University of Michigan who coauthored the study.
It's not all about the money Of course, few if any of us would ever say money alone is the be-all and end-all of happiness.
The Economist's 2005 quality-of-life index, which covers 111 countries, links subjective life-satisfaction surveys to objective quality-of-life measures such as material well-being, family life, political stability and job security.
By that methodology, the United States ranks No. 13 in terms of overall quality of life, even though it is No. 2 in terms of GDP per capita, just behind Luxembourg.
Ireland, which ranked fourth in the GDP-per-capita contest, tops the quality-of-life index. The research team reasoned that Ireland "successfully combines the most desirable elements of the new – material well-being, low unemployment rates, political liberties – with the preservation of certain ... modernity-cushioning elements of the old, such as stable family life and the avoidance of the breakdown of community."
Is it really all relative? There's also a school of thought that says how much money you have in absolute terms isn't as important for happiness as how much you have compared to everyone else. So getting more money may make you a little happier, but getting more money than others will make you a lot happier.
When a group of MBAs were asked whether they'd rather make $100,000 when everyone around them made $120,000, or make $90,000 when everyone around them made $70,000, a majority opted for the lesser salary if everyone at the company knew about the discrepancy, Schwarz said. But if the salary discrepancies were kept confidential, about half said they'd opt for the $100,000 job.
Not to be contrarian, but I'd prefer the $100,000 job either way. And when I informally surveyed a group of people, the majority said that they also would prefer the $100,000 job, even if the salary discrepancy were known -- and yes, some even had MBAs.
Their reasons ranged from the practical (it's more money) to the philosophical (more money is better than power) to the strategic (I have a better chance of not being laid off if I'm not the highest paid; I'm more likely to get a raise; and it's a higher base from which to negotiate pay at my next job).
The few who opted for the $90,000 post -- at least if the salary discrepancy was known -- offered fewer reasons: "Cuz I'm an egomaniac;" "I believe relative wealth is a greater determinant of happiness;" and "I assume that living costs around me would reflect the prevailing lower wage."
Of course, I'd hazard an unscientific guess that whatever happiness money brought you would be curtailed if you didn't actually like your job.
I asked Schwarz, whose career has been spent in academia, how important it is for him to have money. His answer: "somewhat important."
More important, he said, is intellectual freedom. His job allows him to explore his interests. "I don't want to think about something I don't want to think about just to make more money," he said.
As for the pay, he added, "it's fine for a pleasurable life."
manuel
Greedy Member
posted: Jul. 7, 2005 @ 9:40p
Income story reminded me of the old economics twister - when folks are asked whether they'd rather have the US GDP grow at 3% and japan at 4%, or the US at 2% and japan at 1% - people tend to go for the second in droves.
Qzic said: juniorjam mused: I'm pretty sure there have been studies showing that married people live longer than unmarried people.
Actually, I think the research shows that married men live longer than single men, and that married women have shorter life expectancies than single women.
The explination I read related to stress and diet for men (married men eat much better than single men) and resource use for women (married women tend to live for their families rather than themselves).
Actually, marriage benefits both men/women & children: Marriage and Public Health A wide body of social science literature confirms that marriage is a powerful protector of public health. Children raised by their own two married parents live longer, have fewer illnesses and accidents, and enjoy better health than children raised outside of intact marriages. Both men and women who get and stay married enjoy similar powerful health advantages: they live longer, enjoy better health,manage chronic illness better, are less likely to require extensive (and expensive) hospitalization and nursing home care, and become disabled less often than do people who are single or divorced.
Another article - just published today. I think this guy is too dismal and wrong on some points (for example he seems to think its impossible to avoid the materialist trap, or impossible to KEEP a marriage happy - I think both are possible, they just take effort).
by Matthew Lynn July 20 (Bloomberg) -- Push aside that laptop. Put down that spreadsheet. Start planning a longer summer vacation. All that extra money you try to earn won't bring happiness.
The trouble is, not much else will either.
In the past few years, economists -- perhaps keen to shed the word ``dismal'' that attaches itself to their science -- have been studying the state of contentment. Their conclusion: Money can't buy you happiness, and it doesn't even cheer you up much either.
In a recent paper, Andrew Clark, professor at the PSE Ecole Normale Superieure in Paris, argued that unhappiness is a much more widespread condition than was previously thought. It isn't just the pursuit of material wealth that isn't making us happy. Just about everything seems to make us miserable.
Yet maybe that isn't as downbeat a conclusion as it may appear. What the economists have discovered, in a roundabout way, is that the journey satisfies us, not the destination.
Economists have been paying more attention to happiness for a good reason. They have noticed that the world keeps getting richer. Yet, it doesn't appear to be getting much happier.
For a science that is dedicated to increasing wealth, that must come as a disappointment. It is rather like the medical profession suddenly discovering we'd rather not be healthy.
Richard Layard, professor of economics at the London School of Economics, has been one of the most forceful advocates of the study of happiness. ``GDP is a hopeless measure of welfare,'' he said in a lecture at the school in 2003. ``For since the War, that measure has shot up by leaps and bounds, while the happiness of the population has stagnated.''
Higher Taxes
There is no disputing the figures. Output in most industrialized countries continues to rise, unlike the sum of human contentment. Economists such as Layard suggest that society needs higher taxes. The aim wouldn't be to redistribute wealth or to alleviate poverty, but to help us get off the treadmill of trying to earn more money.
Yet, according to Clark, that might not work either.
His theory shows that as soon as we get something, we don't really value it anymore.
The logic runs like this. Money doesn't buy you happiness because as the world gets richer, you aren't the only one who is better off. Everyone else in your street is, too. So although we might be twice as rich as our parents were, our relative position hasn't really changed.
Result: We aren't any happier.
Relative Wealth
The reason is that the happiness that money is supposed to buy depends on our being richer than everyone else. And, fairly obviously, only very few of us (mainly the people who run hedge funds) get to be in that position.
``As our permanent quest for higher income and more possessions is doomed to failure, the argument continues, we should become less materialistic and do something else instead,'' Clark says in his paper, ``Happiness, Habits and High Rank: Comparisons in Economic and Social Life,'' presented at a conference of the U.K.'s Institute for Social and Economic Research.
``Some have suggested social activities, religion or more time with the family. But can we be sure that these don't suffer from the same drawbacks as income? Do we adapt to family life? Are there social comparisons in religion?''
Clark is certainly on to something. ``The point I wanted to make here is that the `money doesn't matter, so we should do something else instead' argument only works if the something else doesn't suffer from the same drawbacks that money and possessions do,'' Clark said in an e-mailed response to questions.
A Good Marriage
He has studied the main things that are supposed to make us happy, and his conclusions aren't encouraging.
You might imagine, for example, that a good marriage would make for a happier life. Yet there is no statistical evidence for that, Clark says. The honeymoon effect is short-lived. People bounce back quickly from divorce.
How about work we enjoy then? Afraid not. In areas of high unemployment, people get by. So long as we are all out of work, it shouldn't make us less happy. Likewise, in areas where we all have a good job, that won't make us happy, either.
Well, religion maybe. Surely that is some comfort. Not really. While there is some evidence that religious people are happier, they need to be members of the dominant religious group in their area. Once again, social comparisons with what everyone else is doing are what counts, not the activity itself.
Questions of Status
At this point, you might be tempted to shrug and say that people are so difficult that nothing makes them happy. ``Instead of saying that there are lots of other things that matter, the challenge now would be to rank these other things in terms of how much we adapt to them, and how much status matters for them,'' Clark said.
That's true. Although nothing itself makes us happy, we can at least start mapping out the things that make us more or less content.
Yet what the economists studying happiness seem to be stumbling toward is a simpler truth.
Money won't ultimately make us happy because once everyone has it, it isn't worth so much.
Neither will anything else, for the same reason.
People, it turns out, are ferociously competitive. It really is a jungle out there.
What makes us happy is doing better than the guy at the next desk, scoring a better-looking wife/richer husband than the next person, or having a bigger car than the family across the street.
We are only really happy when we are getting something that is better than what everyone else has.
And indeed, so long as it keeps delivering insights like that, economics can keep its tag as the ``dismal science.''
To contact the writer of this column: Matthew Lynn in London at matthewlynn@bloomberg.net.
Skipping 32 Messages...
sailmaster1955
Senior Member
posted: Oct. 4, 2006 @ 9:11a
i have to say that now that i have saved enough money to enable me to live a simple life without having to work another day in essence bought me freedom. that freedom is what has made me most happy.
i did buy toys and things and finally bought the car i always wanted and while that did bring some joy, the true happiness is knowing i do not have to work ever again and to eat or sleep under a decent roof.
i had a feeling when i was 18 that this is what would bring me real happiness. I was right and at 27, i'm glad i saved and saved and then saved some more and went without toys for so long as i now have achieved my goal. Sure it was hard to see all of my friends buy lots and lots of toys and expensive trips but I'd have to say I live a happier life than most of them.
Some people can care less about money and be very happy. Unfortunately, I'm not one of those people and if you're on fatwallet you're more likely to be like me than them. For me, finacial freedom was the ultimate goal to pave the way for happiness.
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