davelanton said:I also thought average age was for OPEN accounts.

Have any of you seen any evidence to this effect?

I don't have a reference handy, but I've seen it verified several times that it'a ALL accounts that appear on your credit report.

And this makes sense. Just because I opt to close account doesn't "undo" the fact that I had a need/want to open it in the first place. Moreover, many accounts can be closed and then re-opened. Thus, dropping your closed-account history would allow an obvious avenue for manipulation of one's credit history.

So, I'm afraid that the hope that "average age" is a product of "open accounts" only is wishful thinking.

(Typo edit)

DaveHanson said:davelanton said:I also thought average age was for OPEN accounts.

Have any of you seen any evidence to this affect?

I don't have a reference handy, but I've seen it verified several times that it'a ALL accounts that appear on your credit report.

And this makes sense. Just because I opt to close account doesn't "undo" the fact that I had a need/want to open it in the first place. Moreover, many accounts can be closed and then re-opened. Thus, dropping your closed-account history would allow an obvious avenue for manipulation of one's credit history.

So, I'm afraid that the hope that "average age" is a product of "open accounts" only is wishful thinking.

So you're saying that if you have 5 accounts that have been open for 10 years, and you open 100 accounts and close each of them 2 days later, the "average" age of your account drops to only 180 days? That just seems bizarre.

DaveHanson said:This is one reason why I'm against application sprees for picking up small bonuses--the cost lasts for years, in ways that, while generally small, is tough to predict.

Contrast that with an "app-o-rama" designed to increase/convert EXSITING lines. The ONLY negative here is the temporary one of additional inquiries, which fall off after a maximum of two years, and which often don't matter too much anyway--especially when they are bunched together. The other effects--larger lines, more useful lines with the same "creation date"--are all POSITIVE or at least neutral.
I agree with Dave and I think this is an important point. Each new account is a small stain on your credit report that should be weighed against the benefit provided. My rule of thumb is minimum $100 benefit/year to open an account. Otherwise I'd rather save up for better deals.

Also, if you open too many accounts your credit report may be "split" which according to what I've read on creditnet can cause future denials b/c many systems can't handle a split credit report.

One of the biggest challenges I face with credit is that taking advantage of BT offers usually requires a new account. There is therefore an upper limit to how many times you can get away with this. As Dave suggests, a better strategy may be trying to wrangle deals on existing lines.

siliconbeaver said:Sorry, I don't feel the discussion here very helpful.

The right person to ask is SIS. He has left FW for a while. Most CC discussions at his time are still very useful and valid. You may need to read them first.
Personally, I don't think the article right.No offense intended siliconbeaver, but I don't think this post is very helpful.

First, SIS is on record as not being overly interested in or concerned with management of his credit score or profile. While he has many hundreds of helpful posts on many topics, FW folks wanting to look to optimize their credit would want to cast a broader net. (One caveat: in passing, and on many occasions, he has stressed that having MANY cards hasn't hurt him, and rightly noted that many FW folks are too worried about trivial changes in their credit score.)

Second, you say you're acting "according to SIS' strategy", but neither he nor anyone else (IIRC) ever suggested a strategy centered on charging "over 80%". In fact, he began a well-received and valuable thread to track what happens when usage like this (e.g., high or aggressive utilization) triggers problems. Now, there's no question many folks with otherwise robust credit profiles will get away with >70% utilization. But once again, doing so WILL increase your risk of adverse action. This is not a controversial point among folks who know what they're talking about here.

Third, your links are misleading. You link my bonds thread as an example of how to use your CC. But as that OP states, bonds purchases with CCs died in 2003. So this thread has had nothing to do with CC usage for over 18 months. Since we still get redundant FW posts asking about this, it would be helpful to not say anything that would falsely raise people's hopes on this. And your other two links are to deals that are already dead. (Indeed, the more influential and exciting one, from MBNA was likely killed due to abuse by FW types.)

Fourth, while you of course CAN apply for "as many CC as you like", doing so would be FOOLISH because of the costs detailed in this thread and others like it. It's FAR more effective to apply selectively.

where can i check my credit score??
I have AAA visa card, i don't use it at all. If i close that card, would it take off soem of my credit points??

I generally use citi dividend and for costco shopping i use AMEX.
Thanks

In my biz (RE) I run a lot of credit reports. I just ran one with
this score: EXPERIAN/FAIR, ISAAC SCORE = 764 SCORE FACTORS: 05, 04, 09, 08

and the record number of accounts I've seen ever: SATIS ACCTS--74 !!

Definitive proof (for me at least) that many accounts as a sole factoras a sole factor will not nuke one's score

slimcustomer said:FWIW, an MBNA credit analyst recently told me I had too many cards and then proceeded to open an account with a $20,000 limit.<grin> That's encouraging.

Perhaps what he really meant is that "you have too many (of our competitors') cards."

LaJollaInvestor said:In my biz (RE) I run a lot of credit reports. I just ran one with
this score: EXPERIAN/FAIR, ISAAC SCORE = 764 SCORE FACTORS: 05, 04, 09, 08

and the record number of accounts I've seen ever: SATIS ACCTS--74 !!

Definitive proof (for me at least) that many accounts as a sole factoras a sole factor will not nuke one's score

satif accounts must mean all accounts including closed although they stop aging as i have 97 satis accounts on my credit report although 17 are open accounts my credit score is 746

Folks, I can assure you that opening and closing CC's quickly doesn't have much of a lasting affect on FICO scores . I have ~25 CCs on my report, 23 closed and 2 open. The vast majority of the 23 closed were opened and closed in under a year (many within a month or 2). Yet my scores typically stay ~750 - 780. Further, the 2 open cards are only 1-2 years old.

Edit: Inevitably someone will point out that I could have an 800 with 25 active cards. No thanks, I move frequently and don't want to change addresses/check for fraudulent activity on 25 different cards.

I just talked with an underwriter for a CU credit card. She explained that many CUs are more stringent in issueing cards than the big issuers. She said this was because they wanted to help their customers, not just make money like MBNA and Chase...

Anyway, she says she personally evaluates each card app and denies the card if revolving credit balance exceeds 1-1/2 times your gross monthly income. I was almost on the floor laughing as she was explaining this to me and then reviewing my app and credit report. I had over ten times her limit! She methodically went through my credit report and recommended that I close this and that account. I asked why I should close, not just pay off, and she replied that she is worried about the POTENTIAL I had for racking up huge unsecured debt on other cards if she would issue a card from her CU.

She doesn't look at credit score that much. Anything over 600 is fine.

She really likes to see secured debt on your report. I told her I got a car loan between my original app and now. She said that was a big positive for me... She said she would give me a card instantly if I would move all be CC debt to a HELOC. I didn't mention that my CC's are at 1.9% and HELOC would be at 6%+...

She said that having a big amount of cash in the CU didn't do anything for her -- she said anyone can just take that money out at any time and that she doesn't even check savings / checking account balances when considering a CC app.

She repeated over and over that I needed to close existing CC accounts in order to get the CU CC.

My lessons:
1. Time to go back to the major issuers, not CU's. (maybe... I still want to get some CU CC's to use the no fee BT checks...)
2. There are really nice people out there who have lots of good information to share.

I won't be closing any accounts...