MBNA Closed all of my 3 Accounts. Strategy Needed.

I've been with MBNA for about 2 years, no late payment ever.

My MBNA Account is listed below.

MBNA World Points (10% CashBack everything), Credit Limit $3000
MBNA AAA Visa, Credit Limit $2000
Charles Schwab Visa, Credit Limit $2500

2 months ago, I BTed $8000 from Citi to overpay my MBNA worldpoints. So I have $8000 credit on my MBNA account. On the day when I asked the refund check, MBNA denied my request, saying they did not allow this kind of transaction and sent the BT payment back to Citi. I got a warning for doing this. They might leave some notes in my accounts, which I am not sure.

1 month ago, Citi offered 0 APR 0 fee BT to my Citi Divident account. I found a "loophole" here. I requested BT from Citi to each of my MBNA account and, at the same time, used MBNA webbillpay to pay the money back to Citi. From doing so, I got $5 Citi Dividend dollars for each transfer in and out, which was the most regretable thing I've done when I looked back. 6-7 transfers of $1500 each, totally around $10,000 in balance and $10,000 in credit within a month in each of my MBNA account. I've accumulated $135 in Citi Divident Dollars. MBNA Caught me last Thursday. The special review team called me from 866-282-4211 and asked some routine questions like household income and expenses. Probably based on my annual income of only $30,000, the lady I talked to decided to close all of my 3 accounts for the reason that they felt uncomfortable with me although they agreed I did not conduct anything illegally. I talked with her supervisor. Nevertheless, my argument didn't work for them.

Honestly speaking, I liked the service from MBNA. If possible, I would keep my accounts. I am not a good negotiator. But I wanna try. I want to know which kind of stategy or tactics I might take when dealing with them about this issue. Also, I'd like to know how much is the impact on my credit history with 3 accounts listed as "account closed by credit grantor", if someone could give a general statement here.

Thanks a million for your opinions.

I realized that I abused the MBNA billpay services and Citi promotion. I am working harder for a better solution. So guys be nice on me.

Good luck. I would nicely ask them to reinstate one account. Although, you hold very few bargining chips.

You could simply wait a few months and reapply for an account - see if you were black listed.

FWIW I am a big fan of MBNA Billpay and would hate to see irresponsible use by the few led to its demise for everyone else.

DaveHanson said: Also, why did you shuttle money from Citi to MBNA and back? What exactly were you trying to accomplish?

Bonus cash from Citi. OP mentioned that Citi gives $5 for each BT.

DaveHanson said: This will be a tricky one to fix....

I'm sure they took notes on this tranasction. How exactly did you explain what you were doing?

Also, why did you shuttle money from Citi to MBNA and back? What exactly were you trying to accomplish?


Edit: I did catch the $5 bonuses that mrbean notes below as being mentioned in the OP. But was this really the only reason you did the transfers THIS way? (It does explain why you didn't just BT from Citi to a checking account, but not why you didn't BT to, say, a 3rd CC account...)

The reasons I BTed from Citi to MNBA are the $5 bonus from Citi and the MBNA billpay service. MBNA billpay service could let me electronically transfer those money back to Citi. If I BTed to a 3rd party CC Company, I've to request the refund check and wait the check in the postal mail. There is one possibility that the check is lost during postal transit. And with MBNA, it's much faster 'cause all were accomplished electronically. Those're my reasonings of the BT between MBNA and Citi.

Also, I had the dilemma to explain. I don't know if I should tell MBNA the truth that all of these originated from the $5 bonus. Will they believe me? Will the explanation humiliate myself? Or should I make up another excuse? Thanks.

Googler said: reckner77 said: Good luck. I would nicely ask them to reinstate one account. Although, you hold very few bargining chips.

You could simply wait a few months and reapply for an account - see if you were black listed.

FWIW I am a big fan of MBNA Billpay and would hate to see irresponsible use by the few led to its demise for everyone else.

Maybe I'm retarded, but I'm at the MBNA billpay page and no matter where I look, I can't figure out how to add new merchants to the list. The only one listed is my AAA card, and nothing else. What am I doing wrong? Thanks.

If I rembered correctly, you have to own at least one of the MBNA cards which will enable you to upgrade the webbillpay service. In my memory, AAA Visa and Charles Schwab Visa will not let you do that.

fein said:
2 months ago, I BTed $8000 from Citi to overpay my MBNA worldpoints. So I have $8000 credit on my MBNA account.. There have been countless reports of problems when overpaying MBNA cards, dont do this.

fein said: MBNA billpay service could let me electronically transfer those money back to Citi. If I BTed to a 3rd party CC Company, I've to request the refund check and wait the check in the postal mail.

Aren't there many banks you could have deposited the checks into that would let you set up bill pay from that checking account back to Citibank? Too late know, yeah, but for the future...

It was a promotion and now it is over.

no thats none of their business...and I dont see how telling them that would help your situation any

gwagwa said: I'm not too sure I understand. So you did multiple BT's to your Citi credit card, and you repaid it using your MBNA card (through the billpay service)? I was not aware you could pay the Citi credit card bill with MBNA credit card...

I balance transferred from Citi to MBNA. Then use the MBNA billpay service to pay Citi. Finally got screwed up by MBNA.

Tell MBNA that you love its card and service. You did not know that MBNA does not allow (like) what you have done. Ask nicely if there is any way for you to keep your accout(s)...

A lesson from this, never be too greedy.

DaveHanson said: I'd probably go ahead and tell them that you were given a cash incentive by Citi to simply post balance transfers, and you simply didn't realize that what you did was a consider a security risk. Then, explain that now that you know better, you won't make the same mistake twice. I strongly disagree.

MBNA is a creditor, not your mom. They dont care about "learning your lesson". ESPECIALLY given they warned OP one month earlier not to play BT games. OP did it again using another tactic, and in fact it was intentional. MBNA does not want Op around for a third.

MBNA doesnt want OP as a customer. Once a company makes that decision, IMO its NOT wise to attempt to continue doing business with them.

Its also not wise to tell a creditor each and every one of the loopholes and tricks you discover playing the BT game, especially given that OP has said hes not a good negotiator and did not sufficiently think through prior actions and responses. There is nothing to indicate OP will use these accounts in a normal way in the future, but will only continue to try to "game" MBNA.

From the types of MBNA cards OP has, its likely OP acquired these after reading FW posts, and is yet another example of why less-experienced FWer's should NOT copycat things they may read in this forum, as they are not appropriate for everyone. This is a case of greed and poorly thought out strategy, plain and simple, Common sense (should) tell you NOT move tens of thousands of $$ per month through your CCs when their limits are 2-3k.

>MBNA doesnt want OP as a customer. Once a company makes that decision, IMO its NOT wise to attempt to continue doing business with them.

This is generally good advice. But, worst case scenario, what could MBNA do to punish the OP if he negotiates to keep an account open with them? Are they going to lie on his credit report, that seems like too big of a risk for them to take. If they raise his APR or lower his credit limit, is that worse than having no account? Dell punishes people by saying "no more warranties, no more returns" but what could a credit card that would harm the OP if they get mad? (assuming no outstanding balance) [Maybe there is a risk scenario, it could help others if you describe the risk you foresee].

I think the OP can politely ask if they could let him have one card with whatever they feel is an appropriate limit, and after finishing that discussion, also ask if they can please list the other accounts as being closed at his request. Will they say no? Maybe, but what has he lost, a half hour of time?

Interesting. Very interesting. I see calls from MBNA all the time on the caller ID, but never pick up. If it's something important, they'll leave a message. Once I've got a call - they wanted to verify information. I simply stated that I will have to call them back, because of all the Phishing schemes.

I use mbna to pay my other CC's and then pay it off so I get some extra float. Hopefully it will be ok. I don't do BT overpay 3x over the limit. Although I think I did overpay them once about 3 years ago - just paid the balance from 2 different accounts They had no problem accepting my story and mailing me about 5k check.

Good luck to you. And we all need to be more careful in what we do.

fein said: Googler said: reckner77 said: Good luck. I would nicely ask them to reinstate one account. Although, you hold very few bargining chips.

You could simply wait a few months and reapply for an account - see if you were black listed.

FWIW I am a big fan of MBNA Billpay and would hate to see irresponsible use by the few led to its demise for everyone else.

Maybe I'm retarded, but I'm at the MBNA billpay page and no matter where I look, I can't figure out how to add new merchants to the list. The only one listed is my AAA card, and nothing else. What am I doing wrong? Thanks.

If I rembered correctly, you have to own at least one of the MBNA cards which will enable you to upgrade the webbillpay service. In my memory, AAA Visa and Charles Schwab Visa will not let you do that.

What about other co-branded cards, like the motley fool visa? Anyone know?

fein said: MBNA World Points (10% CashBack everything), Credit Limit $3000
MBNA AAA Visa, Credit Limit $2000
Charles Schwab Visa, Credit Limit $2500

...
I talked with her supervisor. Nevertheless, my argument didn't work for them.

Thanks a million for your opinions.

I realized that I abused the MBNA billpay services and Citi promotion. I am working harder for a better solution. So guys be nice on me.
I don't see how you abused MBNA. You did abuse Citi, for sure.

As far as MBNA - forget it. It's gone for you. This is from my personal experience - they closed my 3 out of 5 and no multi-round negotiations helped. No new MBNA cards for you too. But don't cry - what's so good that you have lost? Nothing. May be $150 Schwab bonus if you did not get it yet - I don't know. Otherwise, all three cards you had did not make any good. MBNA is not for deals like you did. So why do you need it? For these misery World points? For 3% on gas? Bill Payment? I do use it but I don't understand why some people are so excited.

Let's hope BoA will fire this "special review team" although I doubt.

oxaca said: >MBNA doesnt want OP as a customer. Once a company makes that decision, IMO its NOT wise to attempt to continue doing business with them.

This is generally good advice. But, worst case scenario, what could MBNA do to punish the OP if he negotiates to keep an account open with them? Are they going to lie on his credit report, that seems like too big of a risk for them to take. If they raise his APR or lower his credit limit, is that worse than having no account? Dell punishes people by saying "no more warranties, no more returns" but what could a credit card that would harm the OP if they get mad? (assuming no outstanding balance) [Maybe there is a risk scenario, it could help others if you describe the risk you foresee].

As you said, Dell disallows returns and warranties from those flagged as abusers. Many Staples customers have been flagged for coupon abuse, and they might as well FORGET trying to place an order online, since it will be nothing but cancellations, coupon reversals, and other problems. A CC issuer who doesnt like certain activity can refuse/deny CashBack/point redemption (AFTER theyve been accumulated -this has happened with several issuers), decline charges at inopportune times (this too has happened), and generally give a flagged accountholder problems (which all eventually lead to complaint threads on FWF) that one would not have by simply using one of the MANY OTHER ISSUERS in their wallet who hasnt flagged them as an "undesirable".

A business relationship is a symbiotic relationship, not a parasitic one. MBNA would be a foolish host organism to allow this cardholder to do business with them again. My view is that any discussions are not only a waste of time for OP since EVEN IF an account is reopened, s/he will remain "flagged" and not be able to game the system further with MBNA, but it will more than likely be an exercise in futility given OPs acumen, unless the MBNA rep happens to be especially stupid or sympathetic (which I doubt).

fwratz1 said: Why didn't you balance transfer from Citi to a checking acct? No dividend dollars for that?Exactamundo! You could have BT the entire amount into your checking account, skipped the middle man and still got CB from Citi for the transaction. Back OT, your MBNA accounts are toast - if no T&C cover the loophole you've uncovered, they will just blanket you with the Patriot Act.

Abuse? No laws/rules were broken. OP followed THEIR rules and found a loophole. They caught on and stopped him. How is he any more "greedy" than the card that increases their rate to 29% for a ONE HOUR late payment? The companies created a loophole and he went through it. This is real life people and it is about making money for yourself.
That said, it sounds like a lot of hassle to make $135 bucks.

Sounds like the modern version of what used to be called "kiting" or moving money around several checking accounts at once to create the illusion of massive activity as banks track by noting what passes through accounts in a period of time. I've heard it was possible to create the impression of wealth by timing checks. That was back when a 3-day rule applied to checking accounts, which is no more. I don't work with points myself, but I gather earning points CAN inspire interesting activity in the land of plastic. Loopholes exist. The trick is to work the loophole quietly, not excite anyone by broadcasting a glaring glitch in the target's thinking. Maybe best strategy is to use your other cards responsibly, as you live down the impact of having MBNA bust your credit/credibility. -Zer (who agrees that some CC seem set up only to reap rewards from fleecing cardholders who accept agreements fraught with penalty fees and zoomy rates for coloring outside the lines) Kikimalaka said: Abuse? No laws/rules were broken. OP followed THEIR rules and found a loophole. They caught on and stopped him. How is he any more "greedy" than the card that increases their rate to 29% for a ONE HOUR late payment? The companies created a loophole and he went through it. This is real life people and it is about making money for yourself. That said, it sounds like a lot of hassle to make $135 bucks.

dodgeman007 said: you were just trying to scam them and they found out...Helps when you quote the post you're responding to, especially when you're referring to a post 7 pages back. Otherwise, it's highly unlikely anyone has any idea of what you're talking about and your post is considerably less effective.