I seem to remember seeing something related to this before, but several searches did not turn up anything useful. Please let me know if this is a repost and I will scrap this thread...
I recently combined CLs of my BankOne card to my Chase card for total CL of $60K in order to take advantage of 0% BT offer available on the Chase card. Chase in the past did BTs directly into checking account (past transactions were as high as $25K transfers) over the phone with no issues. Turns out, however, that transfer to checking is no longer an option. Online, they can only transfer to another CC (and seems like only to another CC as CC# is the only thing that they ask).
I then called and requested checks for the offer (CSR offered it). When checks arrived, there was no mentioning of 0% offer in accompanying letter. I called Chase and after about 10 minute discussion and research on their part they admitted that the checks are for standard APR on the account, and after another 10 minute research that they cannot issue checks for any offer they have available other than standard rate.
So far, no ACH option and no check option.
I've seen couple of threads (can't find in the search either) regarding doing BT to another card for negative balance, and then requesting a check. Aside from the fact that it'll likely take some two weeks to accomplish (and current promotion is until Feb 1st), there were a considerable amount of testimonials citing issues with this method. Prevailing one was MBNA rejecting transfers as well as taking adverse action on accounts. According to my conversation with AMEX rep, if there is a negative balance on the account, I can call and request a check without any problems. I'm wary of doing this since (a) it was just yet-another-csr-that-may-not-know-what-he-is-talking-about, and (b) my CL with AMEX is around 17K, and doing a $45K BT to this account means doing a transfer about 3 times over the CL.
My question is, can anyone think of a creative way to make this BT happen in a relatively safe manner? Can anyone attest AMEX CSR's claims that they don't care how much negative the balance is, and that they'll accept BT over principle, and, more importantly, significantly over CL.
And in terms of long-term usefulness of this thread (if there is another thread actively covering it, please kindly post a link to it. My searches came up with nothing.):
In what seems to be an ever-increasing cases of CC putting up obstacles preventing easily taking advantage of 0%BT, what ways have you come up with to get the cash from BT into your savings accounts? Any testimonials on successful 0%BT to CC transfers (over the CL?) (post from and two cards, size of BT, to CL, and how long ago) ?
|
- Email Topic
- Text Only
- Search this Topic »
- switch to 'Classic' view
-
- Lonchik
- Member
-
- Quick Summary
- view history
The options suggested thus far:
- BT to CC, overpaying it into a credit balance. Best card: Citi, which has a simple online request form and generally allows the BT amount to exceed the CL. This "negative balance" method is extremely YMMV for other issuers (and even for Citibank). winaudit: Works with AMEX and Discover. (Others have had problems with AMEX, e.g. getting grilled on why such a large payment was made.) CardJuggler: modest amounts worked with CapOne, Discover and WAMU; I haven't gone back to test large amounts. BoA is perhaps the worst here, and might return the BT. (CardJuggler: though in one case they moved the credit balance to another BoA card that had an actual balance. That was only after lots of grief so probably only useful as a last ditch approach.)
- "BT laundering" - Doing CC cash-advance or non-0% BT that can transfer to checking, and then doing 0% BT to the CC almost immediately (with just slight overhead of short-term interest), and possibly splitting amongst several cards/transactions. For those lucky enough to get them, CapOne's purchase checks are great here.
Pro: Can be done with existing CC, without check-cards, corporations, etc... Note that some CU CCS have $0-$15 cash advance fees.
Con: Probably only practical for a subset of the money in an AOR. Reduced profit (mino) due to accumulated interest. In case of fee-based BT, splitting becomes very expensive. - BT to HELOC or other creditors - CC must be willing to do BT to non-CC account (often works by phone even if not online), and you must have a HELOC or some other account. Possible delays in processing.
- Secured LOC or loan as alternative to a HELOC; see this post for details
- BT to a CC of a family member (or friend, if you're willing to risk it), especially as part of a tag-team AOR. Since the account isn't listed on your credit report, you may get a phone call to verify it. Saying "a family member" almost always works, though in rare cases you must be a signer on the account. (At least one person got added as an AU, did the BT, then removed as AU to avoid the long-term mixup.)DO NOT DO THIS WITH AMEX. They will not give you the 0% with this.
- Write a check to a family member or friend (if the check forbids deposit into your checking). TBD: review specific cases that worked. I wouldn't be surprised if spouse gets treated the same as deposit into checking (though that seems to work in some cases).
- BT to your own company - Possible delays in processing. Possible tax implications / IRS red-flags (?) ... though repaying an actual loan should be legit and defensible if documented.
- BT to check-card (debit card).
Pro: To CC, it "should" look like BT to another CC -- though some systems can tell the difference and reject it outright. Seems to be the simplest method.
Con: Some (arguably most) have reported failures or long delays, especially from BoA CC, UMB CC. Requires check-card. Reports (e.g. winaudit) say that HSBC debit card will accept BTs (July 2007: but, new reports of problems here); BOA, Chase, Citi debit cards do not.
Update 3/15/08 by WinAudit: I continue to use HSBC debit/atm card from my HSBC checking account for BT's. Helping other friends do AOR (with durable limited POA) using two other HSBC checking accounts in their names. No problems with totals of >100k and 50k BT's respectively for these friends. BT'd as recently as 12/20/07 from Citi, Chase, Discover, WAMU and Citi, Chase and Discover business cards as well. Not a single incident or problem from 25+ BT's totaling >250k in 15 months. I've stopped writing BT checks... As a side note, I use the HSBC card a lot for cash when traveling internationally. HSBC atm's are pratically everywhere.
SEE ALSO:
- the CC Issuer FAQ with fields such as BT Checks, BT to checking, BT to LOC w/ app, App-O-Rama notes. As always, everyone is encouraged to add useful details.
- another summary of techniques with additional info for several CC issuers.
-
- screen
- Senior Member - 3K
Most checking accounts have a check card.
Atleast in my case, my check card is a visa check card. I give the visa check card no for BT. THe money goes into the checking account
-
- miserly
- Senior Member - 4K
i've bt'd to my AMEX several times recently. each amount was larger than CL. yes it is hassle to get the checks (took about 2 weeks after call) to get the checks. same story with citibank card.
the bigger hassle for me has been depositing them into my checking account. freakin bofa has been putting holds on all amounts larger than 10K FOR UP TO 2 WEEKS! which is really driving me nuts. on top of that, ING put a hold for a week (direct transfer from checking!).
i've not found a better way to do it unfortunately. i just see it as part of doing business (0% for a year with someone else's money) so i can't complain too much...
-
- DaveHanson
- Senior Member - 5K
Lonchik said:Turns out, however, that transfer to checking is no longer an option. Online, they can only transfer to another CC (and seems like only to another CC as CC# is the only thing that they ask).That squares with my recent experience too. Thanks for posting yours...
According to my conversation with AMEX rep, if there is a negative balance on the account, I can call and request a check without any problems. I'm wary of doing thisYour instincts are good--please DO NOT do this. AMEX is ruthless with their account review procedures, and this is simply asking for such a problem.
The best way to accomplish this might be to "launder" the BT through another CC account that will give you no-fee transfer checks. (There might be a std interest rate charged, but you'll pay trivial interest if you cash the checks one day and do a BT to the card within the next couple days.) You might need to do this with more than one card if the CLs are not high enough. A good rule of thumb is, never "launder" more than your total credit line though a credit card account during any given billing cycle.
-
- manuel
- Greedy Member
Sometimes the key can be to be running mulitple 0% deals - some others like a chase I've got right now - allow for recurring no-fee 0% BT's for most the 0% term. So for the last 6 months and then next 6, I would transfer to chase and then use chase to transfer back to others.
Have never tried the checking/debit card idea - that sounds very nice.
-
- Lonchik
- Member
screen said:Most checking accounts have a check card.
Atleast in my case, my check card is a visa check card. I give the visa check card no for BT. THe money goes into the checking account
Someone (in that ever-forgotten offline world) suggested this actually. I do not have check card on my checking account due to its inferiority to a CC. (wanted to cite FWF thread on ChkCrd vs CC - I know I've seen one, but can't find it again. I need to get PhD in FW search engine.)
I just may have to do this, however, just for the sole purpose of doing the BT's...
-
- vwbugman69
- Senior Member
FWIW, I had attempted to do a BT from BOA to my check card and it was rejected.
-
- Lonchik
- Member
miserly said:... ING put a hold for a week (direct transfer from checking!).
Since ING, presumably, is the final destination for your BT, and assuming ING hasn't changed its policy, the hold is a non-issue. You begin to accrue interest the day after the transfer, and the hold only limits you to withdrawal. Interest wise you should be fine...
-
- miserly
- Senior Member - 4K
Lonchik said:Since ING, presumably, is the final destination for your BT, and assuming ING hasn't changed its policy, the hold is a non-issue. You begin to accrue interest the day after the transfer, and the hold only limits you to withdrawal. Interest wise you should be fine...
final destination is my ING heloc. so, it does matter. but as i stated before, i see it as part of doing the business with bt's.
DH, i'd like to hear more about the account review at AMEX you mentioned. i did 3 times my cl via bt and got 2 large checks from AMEX within a month (same billing cycle i think). what are the negative ramifications?
-
- r0man
- Addicted Member
I tried this from my wife's BoA CC to my Citibank MC debit/check card via the BoA web site. The best I can tell, they ended up sending a check and it was never received or processed at Citibank for some unknown reason. After almost a month, I had BoA cancel the check and at least they did that quickly. This might be a useful subject for an updating thread. It would be nice to know people's experiences doing BT's to debit/check cards.
screen said:Most checking accounts have a check card.
Atleast in my case, my check card is a visa check card. I give the visa check card no for BT. THe money goes into the checking account
-
- DynaConv
- New Member
Is it a new chase card? They would not let me BT to checking once because the card was less than 1-3 months old (cant remember exact number). They did let me BT from the new card directly to a HELOC. This may be an option for you.
-
- Lonchik
- Member
DaveHanson said:
The best way to accomplish this might be to "launder" the BT through another CC account that will give you no-fee transfer checks. (There might be a std interest rate charged, but you'll pay trivial interest if you cash the checks one day and do a BT to the card within the next couple days.) You might need to do this with more than one card if the CLs are not high enough. A good rule of thumb is, never "launder" more than your total credit line though a credit card account during any given billing cycle.
This is an option, but a rather expensive one actually (at least in my case). I was planning to do about $45K BT (to keep it below 80% of CL). The next highest CC I have is MBNA with $27K line (and I believe MBNA is a no-no when it comes to incoming BT's that are significantly larger than current balance (which in my case is $0)), AMEX with $17K, and a few other cards with lower CLs. So this essentially means at a minimum of 3 BT fees of $65, which would significantly cut into the return on the endeavour.
$45000 * 3.5% / 3 (only 4 month for offer remaining) - $65 fee = $460
Splitting transfer to 3 cards puts an additional $130 toll on the deal, reducing it by 28% down to $330 (better than nothing, but .... 
), while increasing risk by tripling the recoup period.
This can, however, work fairly well on a no-fee BT. I'll definitely keep it in mind if Chase ever offers no-fee 0%BT.
-
- geo123
- Senior Member - 3K
miserly said:DH, i'd like to hear more about the account review at AMEX you mentioned. i did 3 times my cl via bt and got 2 large checks from AMEX within a month (same billing cycle i think). what are the negative ramifications?
Here are at least a few threads discussing AMEX's financial reviews:
AMEX Financial review- probably triggered by overzealous 0% pursuit - UPDATED 12-30-04
AMEX Financial review for no visible reason
Another AMEX thread: my AMEX credit line just decreased from 10k to 500
Another useful thread: For those who have done AppORama, discuss the negative impact and any adverse action
By the way, why isn't this thread rated higher at this point? I think that this is an excellent question by Lonchik that can really benefit quite a few people on FW.
-
- propcgamer
- Senior Member - 1K
Comment to the person who had BofA transfer to their citi debit card. Mine took about 1 month and a half to deposit into my account for some reason, plus it wasnt deposited into my checking but was into my savings for some reason, and they actually sent a check to citibank from how it showed up on my statement at citibank.
another good idea, is when you are doing it online, it will have an option for "Other" where then you put the payee address, i would try putting like the name of your checking account bank such as "Citibank" and for the account number put your savings account number, then look up the address on citibank for bank by mail deposits, and that should work.
-
- vwbugman69
- Senior Member
propcgamer said:Comment to the person who had BofA transfer to their citi debit card. Mine took about 1 month and a half to deposit into my account for some reason, plus it wasnt deposited into my checking but was into my savings for some reason, and they actually sent a check to citibank from how it showed up on my statement at citibank.
After a month of waiting for the BT to post to my checking account, I received a letter from BOA stating there was an error and that the transfer was to be cancelled. I ended up transfering to an unused LOC and requesting a refund check which took another 3 weeks to arrive. A big PITA if you ask me. Next time I will have to do something different.
-
- davelanton
- Senior Member
I second the suggestion to ask them if you can transfer directly to your HELOC. Even though the online form only lets you enter a credit card #, chances are they will accept any loan account, just not a checking/savings account. Since your final destination is your HELOC anyway, this could save you some float time.
I also do not recommend laundering the funds through other cards. It's both a time consuming hassle and will raise red flags with the receiving card issuers. see my App-O-Rama thread for details of the problems I had.
-
- DaveHanson
- Senior Member - 5K
-
- miserly
- Senior Member - 4K
thanks geo and dh for the responses. and sorry to loncik for hijaking the thread. push comes to shove, they can close my starwood card.
i can leave home without it
has anyone tried to bt directly to a heloc?
-
- manuel
- Greedy Member
Yes, had no trouble. However other BT offers - like chase - take a CC number only, and at least for the one I've been doing lately they really do only take CCs. Haven't tried calling them, I have no shortage of CCs to play with.
|
 |