YAAOR (Yet Another Application-O-Rama) - Some fun, some stress, and a couple surprises.

Inspired by SIS's posts, I've gone through two Application-O-Ramas (AORs) previously, both with excellent results. (My first AOR and the results, good and bad. The second was a mini-AOR back in April 2005.) Here's the results from my most recent one, which ended up being more stressful than either of the two previous and ended up with a few surprises regarding which CRA received each hard inquiry.

My goal for this AOR was to refresh a few of my 0% BT offers, get a few gift card rewards and cash bonuses, and continue to build toward larger credit lines by applying for cards from creditors whom I already have existing credit lines with.

The reason why this AOR was more stressful than any of the past was because I'd shifted some balances from one card with an expiring 0% BT offer to another (MBNA via BillPay) and I'd also just used a CapitalOne purchase check to max out my account for roughly 2 months. As a result, I had roughly a two day window where my credit report would indicate that I had only $13K in balances instead of the roughly $53K I'd really extracted -- this would be the period I'd target for kicking off the AOR.

The real catch? The different CRAs update their information on different schedules, and so I'd have to only apply for cards / accounts that I expected to pull from one CRA that was showing me in the best light. As a result, I did what research I could using my past Credit Reports (i.e. which CRA had been pulled for applications from the same lenders in the past), using WhoPulledMyCredit? and CreditPulls.

October 25th: The first CRA to update was Experian (EXP). EXP is in my experience the most up-to-date and accurate of the three CRAs. Their updates happen the day after each billing cycle closes (or exactly on the first for those that send updates on the first).

October 26th: Past experience indicated that Discover, AMEX, and Providian would pull EXP, so I applied for cards here. AMEX unfortunately pulled TUC (oops, guess the Business AMEX lines pull EXP for me, while the consumer credit lines pull TUC) and Providan did too (apparently because of the recent merger with WaMu).

October 27th: EXP was up to $29K, but Equifax (EQF) had updated, dropped to $12K and was ready for the AOR. So I fired off a salvo of new applications to HSBC (CC and OnlineSavings), BofA (CC and Checking), PenFed, 1st National, Citi, and BECU (all CC). Luckily things went a little smoother at this point and every single one hit on EQF except the HSBC CC, which went to EXP. Oh well.

Then, a long pause...TransUnion...just...never...got...updated.

November 1st: Finally on November 1st, I started getting antsy and decided to go ahead with my Chase applications -- which "always" pulls TransUnion for me. Unfortunately, it ended up pulling EXP instead.

November 4th: Went ahead and submitted my MBNA and National City Bank applications. NCB pulled TUC as expected, but I was surprised to find that MBNA pulled EXP as they, like Chase, always pull TUC for me.

November 6th: Found that the small repair job at Firestone ended up totalling close to $800. Applied for a Firestone credit line to get the 10% discount and received a $2K credit line.

November 7th: Applied for B of A Business Platinum, which pulled TUC instead of EQF. Looks like the business and personal lines pull different locations. Called Discover and got their decision -- another 10K CL approved!

November 8th: Called MBNA and talked with a Credit Analyst. Nice people! Approved for a new credit line and should have $30K available for BTs after reallocation from my existing MBNA WorldPoints card.


Results of the AOR:

Accounts that pulled Equifax:

1. PenFed Platinum Cash Rewards CC -- requested $25K CL, received $25K CL
1.25% Cash Back, no BT offers

2. 1st National Rewards Advantage CC -- Requested two BTs just under $15K, received $15K CL
0% BT / 6 months / no fee

3. B of A Power Rewards CC -- Requested a $10K BT, received $13.1K CL, consolidated w/ existing $17.4K line for a total of $30.5K.
0% BT / 6 months / no fee

4. Citi Simplicity Rewards CC -- Didn't request BT, received $4.5K CL, reallocated to $26K CL
0% BT / 12 months / no fee -- $100 gift card after first purchase

5. BECU VISA CC -- Didn't request BT, received $10K CL

6. HSBC OnlineSavings -- Approved
$35 Bonus, 4.0% APR, EasyView == Yodlee v4.x access (woohoo!)

7. BofA Checking -- Approved
$50 for Online Application


Accounts that pulled EXP:

1. HSBC Cash Back Platinum -- Requested two BTs, just under $15K, received $5K CL, requested another $5K at end of AOR (request pending)
0% BT / 12 months / no fee

2. Discover Card Platinum -- Requested two BTs, just under $15K, received $10K (same as existing Discover CL, currently in use w/ $6300 in 0% for Life)
0% BT / 12 months / no fee

3. Chase Platinum -- Didn't request BTs, Received $5K CL, reallocated from other lines for a resulting $55.9K CL
0% BT / 15 months / $75 fee

4. MBNA Elite Rewards -- Didn't request BTs, Received $8K CL, reallocated from other lines for a resulting $30K CL.
0% BT / 12 months / $75 fee


Accounts that pulled TUC:

1. AMEX Clear -- Didn't request BTs, Received $10K CL.

2. Providian Platinum Rewards -- Requested one BT, just over $10K, Request DENIED.
0% BT / 12 months / $75 fee

3. Firestone (retail card) -- $770 bill, Received $2K CL.
10% off first Firestone purchase, 5% off future Firestone bills.

4. B of A Business Platinum -- Requested two BTs, just over $11K, Received $15K CL.
0% BT / 12 months / no fee

5. National City Bank -- Requested a $9,750 BT, Decision pending.
0% BT / 6 months / no fee


Closing thoughts:

* All applications were done online, and all posted inquiries on the same day of the application. The one exception was a call to the GM Card for a CLI request, which was made late at night and showed as posting on the following day.

* Felt kinda bummed that the crappiest card didn't feel I was worthwhile to extend credit to. Admittedly, the Providian card's max credit limit was $15K and there was a BT fee, but I would've liked it just for the FICO score. Oh well.

* As I mentioned before, Providian pulled TUC, likely because of the WaMu merger. The surprise was that Chase pulled EXP, likely because of the BankOne / FirstUSA merger.

* Wondering whether the lack of a TUC update was because TUC really never received the updated information or because TUC has a mechanism which prevents those sort of significant changes (i.e. $20675->$0 balance in one month) from registering. In other words, I'm guessing that TUC will update properly and show the correct information next month when it receives a second message from AT&T that my balance is still $0. This might be a safeguard against this kind of gaming the system.

* I didn't request BTs on some cards because 1) they didn't have 0% promo rates, or 2) I knew I could reallocate / consolidate my existing lines to get larger lines *after* securing a CC with the promo rate.

* Also requested CLI's for all my existing cards and received increases on my Discover, HSBC GM Card, and US Bank card.

* Feeling pretty good about the results. Resulted in $122.6K of new tradelines and $187.5K of 0% BT funds (so far). Will report back as final details come in.

Edit: Added additional linkage...
Edit 2: Added MBNA, BofA Platinum Business, and Firestone decisions, as well as National City app...and adding a pic showing the damage so far.

Love AOR posts! Congrats on your successes and thanks for the info!

Congrats! Thanks for the extensive details. I learned a few things from your post.

read the credit card faq Behemoth

nice job mbaker, of course we can never be tired of these posts

Thanks for the info. You mentioned an increase on your HSBC GM Card. How were your initial credit lines on that card? I just did a mini AOR last week (only 6 cards). I applied for the GM Card and HSBC gave me a $600 credit limit. Other than the very first credit card I ever had (12 years ago), which was a $500 limit, this is the lowest limit I've ever seen by a margin of over $2K. Heck, HSBC even gave me a $3800 limit on a furniture store card 6 years ago. No particular problems on any of my CR's that would have caused this. But I don't want to detract from your AOR by discussing my own...just curious if the GM Card was initially stingy for other too.

Comment on the AT&T not showing up on the TUC.
Thought I read in one of the AOR threads that it is better to pay down to $1 or something and let it float for a month (for updating) as some cards don't report if you have a $0 balance. Don't have any experience on that, just thought I recalled reading it somewhere.

Good job OP! Me <---- is tempted to do it...but will wait another 6 months before trying anything...gotta get that score above 750.

just in time......

where did you research the CCs u did apply for ? (apart from cardoffers & fatwallet i.e.)

cheers

slimcustomer:

Thanks for the nudge! Just went through the application process for the preapproved card on B of A's site and I've added another 15K CL at 0% for 12 months.

I'll post tomorrow whether another inquiry appears or whether it appears they're using a historical, soft inquiry.

Do everything online. I don't have a ton of cards right now, but it only takes me about 5 minutes/month/card. I have all my cards setup to have the due date near the beginning of the month. I log into each account online around the 15th-20th and setup a payment to be made a few days before the end of the month. I then login to each account once again on the last day of the month to verify the payment actually went through as expected. Of course I'm not maximizing my float, but the couple dollars a month I lose to that is a small price to pay for the peace of mind of having several days buffer to fix the problem if something went wrong.

mbaker4096 said: emaij said: What are you planning on doing with the moolah?Safe, liquid investments. Part of this is continuing to finance the "payoff" of my HELOC. After investing another $15K into I-bonds last month, my outstanding debt is roughly $37K...the other $100K or so will be sitting in an ED Savings or Presidential Checking account.I agree that I-Bonds are safe, can you redeem them in less than 12 months?

mikeres said: I agree that I-Bonds are safe, can you redeem them in less than 12 months?Not recently... Not since, what, May 2003?

The I-bonds were purchased just because of the great rates (both pending and present) and I simply couldn't pass them up, even though I didn't have money of my own to be investing in them. So I drew on a bit of the money I had sitting in savings and drew my mortgage / HELOC "balance" up by another $15K. The $37K balance I "owe" at this point will like be paid off by the 12 month mark, or at least low enough to manage with a single well placed BT.

If worse comes to worst, my rainy day backup plan is that I can always immediately draw on my HELOC ($145K CL) to pay off whatever needs to be paid off. Not expecting to use this safety net anytime soon, but it's available if I need it. Minor trauma and or bumps/bruises can be paid out of the wad of 0% cash collecting interest in my ED and Presidential accounts.

mbaker4096, I also have a pre-approved offer for a Bank of America business card on their website. It is my understanding that business cards do not appear on an individual's credit report. Can anyone confirm that a Bank of America business card does not appear on their credit report.

revheck said: For folks who do many balance transfers on a regular basis, I'd be interested
in hearing how much time and stress you have to deal with making sure that you
are NEVER EVER EVER late with a payment. What is your "hourly wage" when
you take into account the monthly paperwork?



I think this is an excellent question. I make between $50 and $100 per hour doing BT's and promo offers. This is the time actually doing the work, not counting time lurking of FW, Money BB and Ibank Design... I lurk and read for pleasure and do the BTs and promos to retire early.

If you are not making at least $25/hr then you should be working your day job or something else instead.

No stress whatsoever. DW gets stressed about it when she looks in to it, but not me. I don't mind writing checks out for $25,000. I put a post it note on the card regarding terms and expiration date. I wait for the mailman to send the bill, and I respond every week the old fashioned way - by mail. I've missed a couple of payments in three or four years. I've called CS right away, and have never had a late fee or change in terms.

vrb747 said: yodlee & mbna billpay make handling multiple CCs a cakewalk.

mbaker4096, I'm going to pester you with questions since you seem quite experienced at the AOR. I've done one, but very conservative just 4 trade lines and kept the utiliztion below 50%. Doesn't even really count as an AOR.

187K in 0% BT money, you'll over $6000 in intrest in the next 12 months? What is your total credit limit?

Do you worry about your older trade lines being closed due to tanking credit score?

When you request BT with your application where do you send money? Any tricks on getting it into ED or a checking account?

Any guide lines as to how much you request with the BT?

Do you know if affilate cards count towards the some overall limit you may have with a particular card issuer? For example, Citi says no to any CLI, but could still get the AT&T Universal Rewards card?

What do you do with all these accounts once the 0% offers expire? Clearly many can be combined with exsiting older accounts, but many issuers don't allow that.

What does "O-Rama" means ?

mhesidence said: 187K in 0% BT money, you'll over $6000 in intrest in the next 12 months? What is your total credit limit?Credit cards total $284.1K, Firestone's my only retail card at $2K, and I have a $145K HELOC as backup.

mhesidence said: Do you worry about your older trade lines being closed due to tanking credit score?Not really. If they want to close my GM Card, let them. I'm more worried about adverse actions on the lines that are in use.

I try to do what I can to avoid raising any eyebrows. I pay more than the minimum payment each time, and for my own record keeping purposes, I try to make the balances end up as even multiples of $25. If they request $141, I'll pay $150, etc.

Personally, I find the trashed Credit Report to be kind of a sick sort of identity theft prevention. Want to max out my credit cards? Too late...I beat you to it. Want to try opening a new trade line in my name. Good luck! My score's in the mid-500s I can't even open any new ones myself. That sort of thing.

mhesidence said: When you request BT with your application where do you send money? Any tricks on getting it into ED or a checking account?Like I said in a previous post, once they're open it's easy to BT around to cards that allow you to extract the money via Balance Transfer checks, purchase checks, BTs to HELOCs, or direct deposit into your bank accounts.

During the application process it's a bit more complicated, akin to walking a tightrope, as you don't want to inundate any one card with a massive credit balance, especially if they've been noted to take adverse actions to overpayments (see "MBNA").

Citi seems pretty tolerant of large credit balances and even offers an option to request credit balance refunds via their online interface. BofA has been pretty tolerant in the past, but we'll see how the MBNA merger affects them. I've done multiple BTs to AMEX for my account balance and requested balance transfers with the explanation that I wasn't sure whether the BT would be granted and/or post in time. I've also "accidentally" typed too many zeros, i.e. a $15K BT for a $1.5K balance.

This time around, I had good sized balances on both CapitalOne and MBNA (generated via purchase checks and Bill Pay, respectively) that I could target with the BTs -- heck, they both needed to be paid by 11/26 anyway. And I had a couple BTs targeted for a $4,190 balance on AMEX that I'll have to eventually call up and request a refund for. *shrug* Just be creative and work with your balances...you'll find a way to make it work.

mhesidence said: Any guide lines as to how much you request with the BT?Really depends on the lender. Providian flatly denied my application when I asked for just under $15K. HSBC gave me a paltry $5,000 line with the same request.

Other, better lenders respond well to larger requests. As an example, this morning I called MBNA to inquire re: my recent application...I had a $13,250 balance on my existing $24K credit line and the analyst offered to decrease my CL to $15K and give me a $10K line for the new card. I told her I was interested in making a $17.1K BT to CapitalOne and she went ahead and gave me $18K for the new card to cover that BT.

AMEX, Citi, Chase, BofA, and MBNA all seem to handle large BT requests well and will try to make those requests happen if your income will support it.

mhesidence said: Do you know if affilate cards count towards the some overall limit you may have with a particular card issuer? For example, Citi says no to any CLI, but could still get the AT&T Universal Rewards card?Citi definitely sees both credit lines and factors that into both requests, but I'm guessing that they handle the CLI and new application differently.

If you've hit their limit, they might simply refuse your CLI request, but a new application would probably net you an AT&T card with a $500 limit and a note that your other Citi credit lines had been taken into account and that you can reallocate credit lines between them to suit your taste.

I highly recommend applying for new cards *before* requesting a CLI from an individual lender. I'd also recommend *not* requesting additional BTs if you already have large credit lines with a particular lender and just want to ensure they grant you a new card.

mhesidence said: What do you do with all these accounts once the 0% offers expire? Clearly many can be combined with exsiting older accounts, but many issuers don't allow that.Reallocate those that will. Consolidate those that won't. And just keep requesting CLI's every six months for those that don't allow either. Hopefully they'll eventually offer a promotion that makes keeping them worthwhile. There's so many reasons to leave accounts open and unused and very few arguments for closing them after the promotional rate is gone.

Other hints, tips, or recommendations?

* If you have no fee BTs on a particular card, pay that card first each month and then use the available balance on that card to make BTs to pay off the minimum balances on your other cards as they become due.

* I generally don't request BTs with an application if they're charging me a BT fee. I'll apply for the trade line, then reallocate / consolidate, and *then* make one BT to a card that will allow me to either extract the funds or make multiple BTs for free.

CSRbuddy said: mbaker4096 said: Reallocate those that will. Consolidate those that won't.

What's the difference between reallocate and consolidate? I thought they were the same thing with regards to credit lines. Thanks in advance.

There's a handy thing known as a dictionary you might consider using, also a website called dictionary.com

consolidate
To unite into one system or whole; combine

reallocate
allocate, distribute, or apportion anew

My point was that OP was asked what can be done with these new accounts once the 0% offers expire (mentioned combining with existing accounts) and OP responded with reallocate those that will and consolidate those that won't. So if you can combine lines with existing accounts, i.e. reallocate then do so.. but if you can't, then you are supposed to consolidate? My impressions were that if you can consolidate lines, then you can essentially reallocate. In other words if the CC company doesn't let you reallocate, then how can you consolidate?

EugeneV said: Fine, don't pay via MBNA Just store the 0% expiration dates there

That's what Yodlee is for, I add a nickname with the end of the promo or add it as a note to each account.