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rated:
rufflesinc said:   
walkerbait said:   
 
Buying a rehabbed place for $90k that rents for $1100 is not my definition of a great deal. Sure, it would be pretty solid, but without specifics I would *only* estimate a CoC return of 10.5% (10% maint/capEx, 10% vacancy, 10% property management, 1.5% property taxes, and no utilities paid by owner). My goal for a buy and hold is an 18+% estimated cash on cash return. This allows me the cushion that I need to always make money.

 

  That's why I use a mortgage.

  Right, I assumed 25% down with a 4.25% interest rate.

rated:
solarUS said:   
surfcaster said:   
Bizatch said:   Anyone have an idea for a cheap way to refinish hardwood floors?
  Rent a floor sander, few gallons of polyurethane.

I know of some people that just rent a buffer and buff floor heavily before slapping down poly.  Works if floor isn't badly scratched and floor has never been waxed.  Everything goes easier if floor never waxed.

buffer is much safer...you can screw up a wood floor pretty good if you don't sand it right. lots more room for error with a buffer. how much sqft? for me, if it's less than 800 or so, i'd be tempted to farm that out, preferably at ~$2/ft 

  
A floor sander usually runs at 1800 rpm so in one second, it's going around 30 times so even a 1/2 second pause will cause the drum to go over one spot 15 times. People usually don't have good control over it so that's how they end up with ruts in the floor. In my area, it's pretty competitive, there's guys on craigslist that advertise just 80-90 cents a square foot with 1-1.25 being more common per square foot. They usually cheat a little at that rate though, they consider the floor sealer which dries in an hour one coat, then they put another coat on afterwards and then come back the next day for the 3rd coat. 

rated:
Bizatch said:   
rufflesinc said:   
Bizatch said:   Anyone have an idea for a cheap way to refinish hardwood floors?
  how cheap are you looking? I get around $2 a sq ft. keep in mind if you do it right, it lasts decades. if you do it cheap you might have to redo it after a few years.

  This is a rental that I'll be putting up for sale so it only needs to look good/last for a short while.

  I would just farm it out to the Vietnamese floor guys. They will do it for ~$1 / sq ft, make sure you ask for 3 or 4 coats and watch them do it so they don't skim. Not having to deal with the dust and smell of the ploy is well worth extra $300 in my book (if you consider the cost of renting the machines, sandpapers, poly).

rated:
TYH3 said:   
Bizatch said:   
rufflesinc said:   
Bizatch said:   Anyone have an idea for a cheap way to refinish hardwood floors?
  how cheap are you looking? I get around $2 a sq ft. keep in mind if you do it right, it lasts decades. if you do it cheap you might have to redo it after a few years.

  This is a rental that I'll be putting up for sale so it only needs to look good/last for a short while.

  I would just farm it out to the Vietnamese floor guys. They will do it for ~$1 / sq ft, make sure you ask for 3 or 4 coats and watch them do it so they don't skim. Not having to deal with the dust and smell of the ploy is well worth extra $300 in my book (if you consider the cost of renting the machines, sandpapers, poly).

dunno where you got $300 from....obviously if that was the differential, somebody would be foolish to DIY.

we have lots of vietnamese guys around here, but i've not seen anyone offering to refinish that cheaply. every market's different. 

rated:
solarUS said:   
TYH3 said:   
Bizatch said:   
rufflesinc said:   
Bizatch said:   Anyone have an idea for a cheap way to refinish hardwood floors?
  how cheap are you looking? I get around $2 a sq ft. keep in mind if you do it right, it lasts decades. if you do it cheap you might have to redo it after a few years.

  This is a rental that I'll be putting up for sale so it only needs to look good/last for a short while.

  I would just farm it out to the Vietnamese floor guys. They will do it for ~$1 / sq ft, make sure you ask for 3 or 4 coats and watch them do it so they don't skim. Not having to deal with the dust and smell of the ploy is well worth extra $300 in my book (if you consider the cost of renting the machines, sandpapers, poly).

dunno where you got $300 from....obviously if that was the differential, somebody would be foolish to DIY.

we have lots of vietnamese guys around here, but i've not seen anyone offering to refinish that cheaply. every market's different. 

Right, $300 is the difference between DIY or farming out. Its not worth it in my opinion breathing all the dust even with the 1/2 MSA mask. One time my skin got all red from the dust still holding whatever chemical that was in the wood that got into my pores. I stopped doing heavy sanding work after that.

The cost for renting drum sanders, edger, belt sanders for 2 days, 3 grits of sandpapers for 3 types of sanders, 1/2 mask filters, floor sealer/poly and roller is ~$400 with tax. I had ~700 sq ft of floors + plus a set of stairs re-finished with 3 coats for $700. There are a few factors on getting a good price with the Vietnamese folks, but for any contractors really: If you had prior working relationship with them, if you are going to pay them in cash, how well you can negotiate and how much work they had at the moment.

rated:
TYH3 said:   
solarUS said:   
TYH3 said:   
Bizatch said:   
rufflesinc said:   
Bizatch said:   Anyone have an idea for a cheap way to refinish hardwood floors?
  how cheap are you looking? I get around $2 a sq ft. keep in mind if you do it right, it lasts decades. if you do it cheap you might have to redo it after a few years.

  This is a rental that I'll be putting up for sale so it only needs to look good/last for a short while.

  I would just farm it out to the Vietnamese floor guys. They will do it for ~$1 / sq ft, make sure you ask for 3 or 4 coats and watch them do it so they don't skim. Not having to deal with the dust and smell of the ploy is well worth extra $300 in my book (if you consider the cost of renting the machines, sandpapers, poly).

dunno where you got $300 from....obviously if that was the differential, somebody would be foolish to DIY.

we have lots of vietnamese guys around here, but i've not seen anyone offering to refinish that cheaply. every market's different. 

Right, $300 WAS the difference FOR MY ONE CASE between DIY or farming out. It WAS not worth it in my opinion breathing all the dust even with the 1/2 MSA mask. One time my skin got all red from the dust still holding whatever chemical that was in the wood that got into my pores. I stopped doing heavy sanding work after that.

The cost for renting drum sanders, edger, belt sanders for 2 days, 3 grits of sandpapers for 3 types of sanders, 1/2 mask filters, floor sealer/poly and roller is ~$400 with tax. I had ~700 sq ft of floors + plus a set of stairs re-finished with 3 coats for $700. There are a few factors on getting a good price with the Vietnamese folks, but for any contractors really: If you had prior working relationship with them, if you are going to pay them in cash, how well you can negotiate and how much work they had at the moment.

fixed your post.  

also, if you're breathing in lots of dust, then you're doing it wrong.

i wish i had good guys willing to work for that little money.

rated:
solarUS said:   
TYH3 said:   
solarUS said:   
TYH3 said:   
Bizatch said:   
rufflesinc said:   
Bizatch said:   Anyone have an idea for a cheap way to refinish hardwood floors?
  how cheap are you looking? I get around $2 a sq ft. keep in mind if you do it right, it lasts decades. if you do it cheap you might have to redo it after a few years.

  This is a rental that I'll be putting up for sale so it only needs to look good/last for a short while.

  I would just farm it out to the Vietnamese floor guys. They will do it for ~$1 / sq ft, make sure you ask for 3 or 4 coats and watch them do it so they don't skim. Not having to deal with the dust and smell of the ploy is well worth extra $300 in my book (if you consider the cost of renting the machines, sandpapers, poly).

dunno where you got $300 from....obviously if that was the differential, somebody would be foolish to DIY.

we have lots of vietnamese guys around here, but i've not seen anyone offering to refinish that cheaply. every market's different. 

Right, $300 WAS the difference FOR MY ONE CASE between DIY or farming out. It WAS not worth it in my opinion breathing all the dust even with the 1/2 MSA mask. One time my skin got all red from the dust still holding whatever chemical that was in the wood that got into my pores. I stopped doing heavy sanding work after that.

The cost for renting drum sanders, edger, belt sanders for 2 days, 3 grits of sandpapers for 3 types of sanders, 1/2 mask filters, floor sealer/poly and roller is ~$400 with tax. I had ~700 sq ft of floors + plus a set of stairs re-finished with 3 coats for $700. There are a few factors on getting a good price with the Vietnamese folks, but for any contractors really: If you had prior working relationship with them, if you are going to pay them in cash, how well you can negotiate and how much work they had at the moment.

fixed your post.  

also, if you're breathing in lots of dust, then you're doing it wrong.

i wish i had good guys willing to work for that little money.

Like you said, every market is different. For my market (the Greater Boston Area), $1 to $1.25 / sq ft for re-finishing floor is the current going rate. As for the mask, I was using it correctly and it was probably blocking 99% of the dust. But even breathing 1% of the dust is too much for me in terms of trying to save a few bucks.
 

rated:
refinishing floors is not tricky at all.

BUT

if you want a good job get a pro, you need the corner sander and the drum sander to do it properly. So factor in both rentals. Actually sanding the floor isn't hard at all even if you don't know what your doing. If you are ok with a decent job, do it yourself. There are 3 different grits of sandpaper. if you start with the roughest which I think is 20 grit then you will dig into the floor very fast and that's when you make ruts. But if you start with the higher ones. I cant remember the grits now but they sell them right next to where they retn the machine, then you wont dig in. So even if your a retard, you can start with the higher grit paper and as long as you don't leave the drum in one spot for like 30 seconds it wont do anything other than take the color off the wood, and even if it does rut out, just switch to the lower grit and smooth it out.

Not really rocket science, I pay the guys that work for me 10 an hour to run the machine and we have refinished probably 20 this year.

Also one more tip, for rentals, don't stain the floor any color, just sand it smooth or mostly smooth, then urethane it. Put 2 coats down in one day then leave it alone, then when someone rebuilds a smallblock in your living room and scratches the shit out of the floor it wont be nearly as noticeable because it is all wood grain color

OhioPremiumProperties.com

rated:
TYH3 said:   
solarUS said:   
TYH3 said:   
solarUS said:   
TYH3 said:   
Bizatch said:   
rufflesinc said:   
Bizatch said:   Anyone have an idea for a cheap way to refinish hardwood floors?
  how cheap are you looking? I get around $2 a sq ft. keep in mind if you do it right, it lasts decades. if you do it cheap you might have to redo it after a few years.

  This is a rental that I'll be putting up for sale so it only needs to look good/last for a short while.

  I would just farm it out to the Vietnamese floor guys. They will do it for ~$1 / sq ft, make sure you ask for 3 or 4 coats and watch them do it so they don't skim. Not having to deal with the dust and smell of the ploy is well worth extra $300 in my book (if you consider the cost of renting the machines, sandpapers, poly).

dunno where you got $300 from....obviously if that was the differential, somebody would be foolish to DIY.

we have lots of vietnamese guys around here, but i've not seen anyone offering to refinish that cheaply. every market's different. 

Right, $300 WAS the difference FOR MY ONE CASE between DIY or farming out. It WAS not worth it in my opinion breathing all the dust even with the 1/2 MSA mask. One time my skin got all red from the dust still holding whatever chemical that was in the wood that got into my pores. I stopped doing heavy sanding work after that.

The cost for renting drum sanders, edger, belt sanders for 2 days, 3 grits of sandpapers for 3 types of sanders, 1/2 mask filters, floor sealer/poly and roller is ~$400 with tax. I had ~700 sq ft of floors + plus a set of stairs re-finished with 3 coats for $700. There are a few factors on getting a good price with the Vietnamese folks, but for any contractors really: If you had prior working relationship with them, if you are going to pay them in cash, how well you can negotiate and how much work they had at the moment.

fixed your post.  

also, if you're breathing in lots of dust, then you're doing it wrong.

i wish i had good guys willing to work for that little money.

Like you said, every market is different. For my market (the Greater Boston Area), $1 to $1.25 / sq ft for re-finishing floor is the current going rate. As for the mask, I was using it correctly and it was probably blocking 99% of the dust. But even breathing 1% of the dust is too much for me in terms of trying to save a few bucks.

just an additional note for anyone weighing this choice - buffing the floors also costs much less in terms of materials/rentals than does the all-out deep sand.  

...and a properly fitting half-face MSA respirator filters like 99.97%

rated:
solarUS said:   just an additional note for anyone weighing this choice - buffing the floors also costs much less in terms of materials/rentals than does the all-out deep sand.  

...and a properly fitting half-face MSA respirator filters like 99.97%
 

  Unfortunately not when you have a full beard

rated:
ShaftSlinger said:   refinishing floors is not tricky at all.

BUT

if you want a good job get a pro, you need the corner sander and the drum sander to do it properly. So factor in both rentals. Actually sanding the floor isn't hard at all even if you don't know what your doing. If you are ok with a decent job, do it yourself. There are 3 different grits of sandpaper. if you start with the roughest which I think is 20 grit then you will dig into the floor very fast and that's when you make ruts. But if you start with the higher ones. I cant remember the grits now but they sell them right next to where they retn the machine, then you wont dig in. So even if your a retard, you can start with the higher grit paper and as long as you don't leave the drum in one spot for like 30 seconds it wont do anything other than take the color off the wood, and even if it does rut out, just switch to the lower grit and smooth it out.

Not really rocket science, I pay the guys that work for me 10 an hour to run the machine and we have refinished probably 20 this year.

Also one more tip, for rentals, don't stain the floor any color, just sand it smooth or mostly smooth, then urethane it. Put 2 coats down in one day then leave it alone, then when someone rebuilds a smallblock in your living room and scratches the shit out of the floor it wont be nearly as noticeable because it is all wood grain color

OhioPremiumProperties.com


Shaft I have a question (or anyone else with experience) - do you use the oil or water based poly? I'm just finishing up sanding this week and not sure which to use. I know water is quicker, but does it dry so fast that its hard to keep an even coat with wet edges? I have fairly average 14x10 bedrooms with closets that I'm going to be doing.

Also, how do you guys who have DIY (or watched someone else) sanded the corners of the room? The edger is circular, which leaves the 90s with an unsanded edge. I've seen carbide paint scrapers mentioned online, but that takes quite awhile...

rated:
I always use the oil based, the corners you will have to get by hand, just take the color off and oyull be good to go.

rated:
drew2money said:   
blueiedgod said:   
meccooll said:   What are the hottest markets now for investment (single homes), that is has good cash flow + appretiation? Thinking of buying accross US in hot markets and have it managed rather than hunting for a diamond locally. What kinda of ROI one can expect on unlevereged buys after managing fees?
And on a bit seperate note can someone recomend a managing company in north las vegas?

  

Why not ask what are the hottest stock's, and invest? If someone knew the answer, they would have invested them selves. 

  

Is Bernie Madoff a member of Fatwallet?

  

I'm sure he gets internet in prison, and could operate from behind bars. 

rated:
CaptainCool said:   
ShaftSlinger said:   refinishing floors is not tricky at all.

BUT

if you want a good job get a pro, you need the corner sander and the drum sander to do it properly. So factor in both rentals. Actually sanding the floor isn't hard at all even if you don't know what your doing. If you are ok with a decent job, do it yourself. There are 3 different grits of sandpaper. if you start with the roughest which I think is 20 grit then you will dig into the floor very fast and that's when you make ruts. But if you start with the higher ones. I cant remember the grits now but they sell them right next to where they retn the machine, then you wont dig in. So even if your a retard, you can start with the higher grit paper and as long as you don't leave the drum in one spot for like 30 seconds it wont do anything other than take the color off the wood, and even if it does rut out, just switch to the lower grit and smooth it out.

Not really rocket science, I pay the guys that work for me 10 an hour to run the machine and we have refinished probably 20 this year.

Also one more tip, for rentals, don't stain the floor any color, just sand it smooth or mostly smooth, then urethane it. Put 2 coats down in one day then leave it alone, then when someone rebuilds a smallblock in your living room and scratches the shit out of the floor it wont be nearly as noticeable because it is all wood grain color

OhioPremiumProperties.com


Shaft I have a question (or anyone else with experience) - do you use the oil or water based poly? I'm just finishing up sanding this week and not sure which to use. I know water is quicker, but does it dry so fast that its hard to keep an even coat with wet edges? I have fairly average 14x10 bedrooms with closets that I'm going to be doing.

Also, how do you guys who have DIY (or watched someone else) sanded the corners of the room? The edger is circular, which leaves the 90s with an unsanded edge. I've seen carbide paint scrapers mentioned online, but that takes quite awhile...

  
You can use a palm sander, for the corners, use a square one, or use one of those multi-tools that you can get at Harbor Freight for $20-$30, they have sandpaper attachments. Or you just do the little bit by hand. Or you just skip a little bit of, no one stares that closely at the corner and if you don't get all of it, the poly will coat it and it will blend in. You also might not get all the stains out of the wood, but there's only so much you can do so you just say it gives the place character. And I just use oil because it's cheaper. Water based usually requires more coats. 

rated:
solarUS said:   
TYH3 said:   
solarUS said:   
TYH3 said:   
solarUS said:   
TYH3 said:   
Bizatch said:   
rufflesinc said:   
Bizatch said:   Anyone have an idea for a cheap way to refinish hardwood floors?
  how cheap are you looking? I get around $2 a sq ft. keep in mind if you do it right, it lasts decades. if you do it cheap you might have to redo it after a few years.

  This is a rental that I'll be putting up for sale so it only needs to look good/last for a short while.

  I would just farm it out to the Vietnamese floor guys. They will do it for ~$1 / sq ft, make sure you ask for 3 or 4 coats and watch them do it so they don't skim. Not having to deal with the dust and smell of the ploy is well worth extra $300 in my book (if you consider the cost of renting the machines, sandpapers, poly).

dunno where you got $300 from....obviously if that was the differential, somebody would be foolish to DIY.

we have lots of vietnamese guys around here, but i've not seen anyone offering to refinish that cheaply. every market's different. 

Right, $300 WAS the difference FOR MY ONE CASE between DIY or farming out. It WAS not worth it in my opinion breathing all the dust even with the 1/2 MSA mask. One time my skin got all red from the dust still holding whatever chemical that was in the wood that got into my pores. I stopped doing heavy sanding work after that.

The cost for renting drum sanders, edger, belt sanders for 2 days, 3 grits of sandpapers for 3 types of sanders, 1/2 mask filters, floor sealer/poly and roller is ~$400 with tax. I had ~700 sq ft of floors + plus a set of stairs re-finished with 3 coats for $700. There are a few factors on getting a good price with the Vietnamese folks, but for any contractors really: If you had prior working relationship with them, if you are going to pay them in cash, how well you can negotiate and how much work they had at the moment.

fixed your post.  

also, if you're breathing in lots of dust, then you're doing it wrong.

i wish i had good guys willing to work for that little money.

Like you said, every market is different. For my market (the Greater Boston Area), $1 to $1.25 / sq ft for re-finishing floor is the current going rate. As for the mask, I was using it correctly and it was probably blocking 99% of the dust. But even breathing 1% of the dust is too much for me in terms of trying to save a few bucks.

just an additional note for anyone weighing this choice - buffing the floors also costs much less in terms of materials/rentals than does the all-out deep sand.  

...and a properly fitting half-face MSA respirator filters like 99.97%

  SolarUS, what's the going rate for buffing per square foot? Although it's likely too late for us since we've already moved in.

rated:
ShaftSlinger said:   refinishing floors is not tricky at all.

BUT

if you want a good job get a pro, you need the corner sander and the drum sander to do it properly. So factor in both rentals. Actually sanding the floor isn't hard at all even if you don't know what your doing. If you are ok with a decent job, do it yourself. There are 3 different grits of sandpaper. if you start with the roughest which I think is 20 grit then you will dig into the floor very fast and that's when you make ruts. But if you start with the higher ones. I cant remember the grits now but they sell them right next to where they retn the machine, then you wont dig in. So even if your a retard, you can start with the higher grit paper and as long as you don't leave the drum in one spot for like 30 seconds it wont do anything other than take the color off the wood, and even if it does rut out, just switch to the lower grit and smooth it out.

Not really rocket science, I pay the guys that work for me 10 an hour to run the machine and we have refinished probably 20 this year.

Also one more tip, for rentals, don't stain the floor any color, just sand it smooth or mostly smooth, then urethane it. Put 2 coats down in one day then leave it alone, then when someone rebuilds a smallblock in your living room and scratches the shit out of the floor it wont be nearly as noticeable because it is all wood grain color

OhioPremiumProperties.com

Is that your site?

edit: Apparently it is.  Good for you man!

rated:
I'll chime in with my experience with floors. I've refinished floors using three different methods. The first time I rented a large square pad random orbital sander from menards that looked like this http://s3.amazonaws.com/wordpress_production/blogs/wp-content/up... 
I figured it would go into the corners to save a step. I was pleased with the results at the time, although I would not use this again, unless I was only roughing up the poly coat to do a quick refinish. One of the issues was that it was a very old house and there were areas where the floor wasn't level. The sander also isn't powerful enough to remove material if you have cupping. Some of my floors were old pine, and the sander wasn't able to remove all the buildup in the grain and as a result I had areas of poly delamination.

Another time I rented one of these http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-203939-Varathane-Finish-Sander/... I think it's from Lowes. It has 3 orbital pads. I was much more impressed with the speed and quality of this machine over the large square pad. This is what I would use for a quick refinish. If I was trying to remove all the stain to change colors or had to replace boards, then I would use a drum sander.

I had at first avoided the drum sander because you see these warnings about it doing damage. If you're half-way handy it's really not a concern. I replaced several boards that had termite damage so I had to sand them down quite a bit to make things level, and you can go over things quite a bit before you're going to cause obvious damage to the floor. Now the edge sander is a little bit harder to figure out, because it's quite heavy and it takes a little bit of experimentation to learn how to hold it at the right angle.

I used a carbide scraper like this http://www.wwhardware.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9d... for the corners. It goes really quickly.

The most important tool I found was a variable speed random orbit sander. I have a couple of these, and consider it a must have tool.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-5-in-Random-Orbit-Sander-with-... 
I'll buy a couple packs of the 60, 100, and 120 grit with the velcro backs and it's really easy to change pads. This is especially helpful around the perimeter and anywhere the sander might leave swirl marks, this will take them right out. If you're not doing a huge area (or if you have more time than money) you can use this sander to sand between coats so you don't have to rent a sander.

Ditto what shaftslinger said to just put down poly- it makes the process and any touchups in the future much easier.

rated:
does the buffer actually sand enough to remove paint chips?

rated:
paint chips? Is that a serious question? With the buffer you're really more limited to what pads are available. If you could buy a big disk of rough sandpaper then I'm sure it could remove quite a bit of material, however I've never seen such a thing. I've never used one, although the pads I've seen are not very abrasive, so they're good for roughing up the surface to help with mechanical adhesion of the top coat and removing any residue.

You really have to figure what your time is worth (or your hired help). I've always rented equipment for the initial sand down. After that I've used the 5" or 6" random orbital sander to go over the floor between coats. I even chose this method for decent size (1500sq ft) projects. For me it was more convenient and probably more cost effective. I was able to rent the drum sander and get everything finished within the minimum rental period (4 hours?) so then I wasn't renting a machine while the poly dried, or having to lug those heavy things back and forth between coats. The rental places also tend to price their sandpaper quite high, so I've been happy to pay a kid $10/hr to run a hand sander over the floor between coats. Again if you go this route make sure you buy a decent random orbital sander with the hook and loop pads. Those square finish sanders aren't aggressive enough.

rated:
I actually just bought a floor sander years ago. Home Depot sells them once they've had them a while. I think they're around 2.5-3k new and I got it used for about $600. Worth it if you have enough units and people who can do the labor cheap. I bought sandpaper online, was around $2-$3 a sheet and it was better than the cheap stuff that Home Depot carries at $8 a sheet. I figured when I'm done with it, I can always sell it for around $600 or so as using it for a few units doesn't really wear it out. The drum sander is the way to go if your floors aren't completely flat or they have a lot of wear. You can tip the floor sander on one end or the other to get at a floor board that might need extra work. Hard to do that with the square one from Lowes. If you start with a 24, it really chews up the floor and goes quick, sometimes a 36 isn't enough to get everything and you end up doing multiple passes. However now the price of getting floors redone have come down in the last couple of years, I find it just easier to hire out the job, costs about the same and less involvement on my part. The only thing I don't really like about them is that they can be sloppy on the final coat but they do a good job of sanding.

rated:
tehlorax said:   
ShaftSlinger said:   refinishing floors is not tricky at all.

BUT

if you want a good job get a pro, you need the corner sander and the drum sander to do it properly. So factor in both rentals. Actually sanding the floor isn't hard at all even if you don't know what your doing. If you are ok with a decent job, do it yourself. There are 3 different grits of sandpaper. if you start with the roughest which I think is 20 grit then you will dig into the floor very fast and that's when you make ruts. But if you start with the higher ones. I cant remember the grits now but they sell them right next to where they retn the machine, then you wont dig in. So even if your a retard, you can start with the higher grit paper and as long as you don't leave the drum in one spot for like 30 seconds it wont do anything other than take the color off the wood, and even if it does rut out, just switch to the lower grit and smooth it out.

Not really rocket science, I pay the guys that work for me 10 an hour to run the machine and we have refinished probably 20 this year.

Also one more tip, for rentals, don't stain the floor any color, just sand it smooth or mostly smooth, then urethane it. Put 2 coats down in one day then leave it alone, then when someone rebuilds a smallblock in your living room and scratches the shit out of the floor it wont be nearly as noticeable because it is all wood grain color

OhioPremiumProperties.com

Is that your site?

edit: Apparently it is.  Good for you man!

  Yea, that's me,  Its a totally free site we don't even have ads,  Ive been trying to add a page everytime a topic comes to mind and eventually I should have the be all end all how to be a rental property manager site put together with tons of info on costs of projects what to do and how to do it.  Id love critique from anyone that takes the time to look at it,  let me know what you like and what you want more of or less of!

I just added a section today on Roofing Siding and Windows for rental properties.

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I had a site few years back, when things where hot I had a lot of relocustomers, so it was a way to permanently showcase an available property. If property wasn't available id replace main property gif w jpeg and remove link, as didn't want info out there when tenants occupied. I knew MS FrontPage, so was cool to fool around with.

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I was originally going to do it to attract tenant but then when I started putting stuff on about managing tenants and contractors I killed that plan. I do have pictures of most of my properties up there. It's my first attempt at a website so the graphics aren't too fancy. I have so many of my friends asking me about getting into rentals so oftent this will be a time saver for me ultimately. They can just go here and read till they are sick of it. In my experience most people want to do something till they realize there's work involved then they punt

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ShaftSlinger said:   I was originally going to do it to attract tenant but then when I started putting stuff on about managing tenants and contractors I killed that plan. I do have pictures of most of my properties up there. It's my first attempt at a website so the graphics aren't too fancy. I have so many of my friends asking me about getting into rentals so oftent this will be a time saver for me ultimately. They can just go here and read till they are sick of it. In my experience most people want to do something till they realize there's work involved then they punt
  Really appreciate the effort. More pics, especially before and after! You could save a lot of time type out stuff just by putting more pics!

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What do you think of replacing carpet with laminate flooring, for an upstairs unit. Will this be too noisy for the unit below, or have the underlayments improved enough that it won't be a problem for the tenant below? I'd be interested in your experiences.

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Got a very high Water/sewage bill on a 4-family in MA, last one was about $1460, checked and planning to replace water saving fixtures in all units. Not sure that will help.
On further reading the water/sewage bill, found out it is billed at graded usage (like 1-20 cu. meters @ $5/per gallon, 21-40 @ $7, 40-60 @ $9, 60-80 @ $12, 80+ @14),
So, for a 4 unit property for an total quarterly average consumption of 85 cu. meter, comes out to be $730 (20*$5+20*$7+20*$9+20*$12+5*$14), since the sewage doubles it up and is calculated in similar scale, total water/sewage bill turns out to be way higher (close to 200%) the if the water/sewage accessed by per unit (example if 3 units usage is like 20 cu meter each, 4th like 25 cu meter for a total of 85 cu. meter, then water & sewage bill would be like 20*$5+20*$5+20*$5+(20*5+5*7)=$435+sewage comes out to be about $870 only.
Looks like getting penalized for over usage cumulatively, when actually per unit basis consumption is very low. Any way to correct or fix this? Sub-metering won't help as passing on $125/per unit/per month, is not viable option. Will talk to town water department and see if putting separate main meter in each unit is an option to pursue or any other suggestion. Have people come up with a solution to this problem or any easier way to reduce the bill ?. Thanks.

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ecotesty said:   Got a very high Water/sewage bill on a 4-family in MA, last one was about $1460, checked and planning to replace water saving fixtures in all units. Not sure that will help.
On further reading the water/sewage bill, found out it is billed at graded usage (like 1-20 cu. meters @ $5/per gallon, 21-40 @ $7, 40-60 @ $9, 60-80 @ $12, 80+ @14),
So, for a 4 unit property for an total quarterly average consumption of 85 cu. meter, comes out to be $730 (20*$5+20*$7+20*$9+20*$12+5*$14), since the sewage doubles it up and is calculated in similar scale, total water/sewage bill turns out to be way higher (close to 200%) the if the water/sewage accessed by per unit (example if 3 units usage is like 20 cu meter each, 4th like 25 cu meter for a total of 85 cu. meter, then water & sewage bill would be like 20*$5+20*$5+20*$5+(20*5+5*7)=$435+sewage comes out to be about $870 only.
Looks like getting penalized for over usage cumulatively, when actually per unit basis consumption is very low. Any way to correct or fix this? Sub-metering won't help as passing on $125/per unit/per month, is not viable option. Will talk to town water department and see if putting separate main meter in each unit is an option to pursue or any other suggestion. Have people come up with a solution to this problem or any easier way to reduce the bill ?. Thanks.

Couple of things. You might have some typos in your math. From above: "1-20 cu. meters @ $5/per gallon." 20 cu. meters = 5283 gallons. So that can't be right. Based on your math, I assume you just meant 1-20 cu meters @ $5/cu. meter.

Second, doing separate meters will not generate a $125/month/unit bill. Because break it out will eliminate the cumulative effect. Therefore, each unit is paying only $33/month (20 cu. meter x $5) / 3 months. I think that is pretty reasonable.

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Please read, as unit not cubic meters.
1 Unit = 748 gallons = 100 Cubic Feet
Just learned town, due to tenant/billing issues, won't do separate unit for each unit in multifamily,
they say as a owner can install separate meter and bill tenant according to their usage, but that won't eliminate this cumulative issue.

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Usually when the water bill is high, it's probably a leaking toilet. Either get a new flush valve kit from Home Depot at about $20 or so. Or just replace all the toilets. I normally just go with American Standard Cadet 3. About $120 each.

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henry33 said:   Either get a new flush valve kit from Home Depot at about $20 or so. Or just replace all the toilets. I normally just go with American Standard Cadet 3. About $120 each.
  Isn't it rare to have to replace the toilet if something in the tank is broken? The materials aren't expensive but the labor is annoying.

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rufflesinc said:   
henry33 said:   Either get a new flush valve kit from Home Depot at about $20 or so. Or just replace all the toilets. I normally just go with American Standard Cadet 3. About $120 each.
  Isn't it rare to have to replace the toilet if something in the tank is broken? The materials aren't expensive but the labor is annoying.

  
Well the old tanks are 1.6 gallons, the new ones are 1.28 gallons, not sure about the flush though. I've put a couple in and haven't heard any complaints. The labor is about the same, but this way you end up with a new toilet. You usually have to take the tank apart if you're going to replace all the innards of the tank. Or you're just undoing two bolts and dropping the new one right on a new wax ring. 

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Average water consumption is ~80-100 gallons a day. Your tenants seem to be using closer to 175/day per unit. If theres a couple people per unit then thats pretty close to average/typical usage.

Summer usage might be higher than other quarters if the lawn is watered, people wash their cars, etc.

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Water conservation features are much better today than they were even 10 years ago. Even the cheapo bathroom faucets have more than just a restrictor in them, that tenant just take out. The new ones actually aerate the stream to give impression that it is a full blast of tap water. Look for Water Sense label. I happen to like Price Pfister brand

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ecotesty said:   Got a very high Water/sewage bill on a 4-family in MA, last one was about $1460, checked and planning to replace water saving fixtures in all units. Not sure that will help.
On further reading the water/sewage bill, found out it is billed at graded usage (like 1-20 cu. meters @ $5/per gallon, 21-40 @ $7, 40-60 @ $9, 60-80 @ $12, 80+ @14),
So, for a 4 unit property for an total quarterly average consumption of 85 cu. meter, comes out to be $730 (20*$5+20*$7+20*$9+20*$12+5*$14), since the sewage doubles it up and is calculated in similar scale, total water/sewage bill turns out to be way higher (close to 200%) the if the water/sewage accessed by per unit (example if 3 units usage is like 20 cu meter each, 4th like 25 cu meter for a total of 85 cu. meter, then water & sewage bill would be like 20*$5+20*$5+20*$5+(20*5+5*7)=$435+sewage comes out to be about $870 only.
Looks like getting penalized for over usage cumulatively, when actually per unit basis consumption is very low. Any way to correct or fix this? Sub-metering won't help as passing on $125/per unit/per month, is not viable option. Will talk to town water department and see if putting separate main meter in each unit is an option to pursue or any other suggestion. Have people come up with a solution to this problem or any easier way to reduce the bill ?. Thanks.

that is some bullshit. you are being unduly penalized, and heavily, for having a multifamily house. i'd go to city council with that one. you're talking about thousands in unfair charges. the water board can obviously adjust their math for multifamily....but it'll take the council to make them.

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