yeti2k2 said: Is it possible for me to pay myself for work on my rental and deduct this as an expense?
This may be possible if you have an LLC or corporation not completely owned by you. However, the personal income that you receive will be taxed (both income tax and self employment/FICA tax).
The cost of repairs may also be deductible. This may include the cost of labor and materials. However, landlords cannot deduct the value of their own labor.
How am I supposed to determine the current value of my home? I converted my home to a rental in August 2011 and I've owned it since '07 and while I'm sure it is worth less now do I have to get an appraisal? Otherwise how do I use the lesser of basis or the current value for depreciation purposes?
bbgarcia said: How am I supposed to determine the current value of my home? I converted my home to a rental in August 2011 and I've owned it since '07 and while I'm sure it is worth less now do I have to get an appraisal? Otherwise how do I use the lesser of basis or the current value for depreciation purposes?
Does your county assessor have the info? Our county has a website you can use to look up any properties taxes, land value, and improvement value. Your improvement value would be your basis for depreciation. Our assessor is usually pretty close to appraisals.
How do you guys differentiate between repairs (expensed) and improvements (depreciated)? For example, I buy some pretty rough houses, fix them up and then rent them. Where would stuff like plumbing, electric, paint, flooring, etc go?
TheBeagle said: How do you guys differentiate between repairs (expensed) and improvements (depreciated)? For example, I buy some pretty rough houses, fix them up and then rent them. Where would stuff like plumbing, electric, paint, flooring, etc go?
This is IRS's definition: "Repairs– Repairs just keep your property in good working condition but do not add to the value of the property." But also some things like roof, siding, I think you have to take depreciation on those. Double check yourself here: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc414.html
Bought property as vacation/retirement home. Circumstances have changed and need to lease home. I know I need to change insurance coverage, but what about mortgage. There was/is a difference in mortgage rates, higher for an investment property, do I need to contact mortgage company about change, or does it matter?
gooseed said: Bought property as vacation/retirement home. Circumstances have changed and need to lease home. I know I need to change insurance coverage, but what about mortgage. There was/is a difference in mortgage rates, higher for an investment property, do I need to contact mortgage company about change, or does it matter? Dont worry bout mortgage, xcept having mailing address correct.
dpa789kd said: bbgarcia said: How am I supposed to determine the current value of my home? I converted my home to a rental in August 2011 and I've owned it since '07 and while I'm sure it is worth less now do I have to get an appraisal? Otherwise how do I use the lesser of basis or the current value for depreciation purposes?
Does your county assessor have the info? Our county has a website you can use to look up any properties taxes, land value, and improvement value. Your improvement value would be your basis for depreciation. Our assessor is usually pretty close to appraisals.
County assessor shows value as higher then when I bought it. That's definitely not true.
To fight a permitting/zoning issue? Looking for advice on if I should bother fighting the county zoning/permit issue.
Ok, in hindsight I should have checked when we bought the place, but we bought a house 3 years ago that had a detached in-law apartment. Been renting that apartment out, and owner before us rented it out for 10+ years, and owner before that lived there a few years while he built the main house. Long story short, county sends me letter saying while they allow in-law apartments, zoning doesn't allow for for 2nd detached structure with kitchen and laundry, so they want me to rip out the kitchen sink, fill the sink drain with concrete, and cut all the 220V lines (and of course get permits to do all that), and will fine me a ton of money if I don't do it in a stupidly short period of time. But then I can keep it as an in-law apartment. (a rather un-useful one)
Any input from u guys on if its worth my time to try and fight something like this either by trying to wade through the regs myself or consulting an attorney who specializes in this sort of thing? If an attorney, any specific specialty I should be looking/asking for? If it helps, this is a 'gentlemens farm' on 5 acres with some rather fancy houses nearby, many of which I am pretty sure have guest houses. Am finding it rather hard to believe none of them have kitchens or laundry in them. Heck, they allow sinks and laundry in a horse barn, but not an in-law apartment? Gotta love it when crazy zoning laws run amok.
gbenson said: To fight a permitting/zoning issue? Looking for advice on if I should bother fighting the county zoning/permit issue.
Ok, in hindsight I should have checked when we bought the place, but we bought a house 3 years ago that had a detached in-law apartment. Been renting that apartment out, and owner before us rented it out for 10+ years, and owner before that lived there a few years while he built the main house. Long story short, county sends me letter saying while they allow in-law apartments, zoning doesn't allow for for 2nd detached structure with kitchen and laundry, so they want me to rip out the kitchen sink, fill the sink drain with concrete, and cut all the 220V lines (and of course get permits to do all that), and will fine me a ton of money if I don't do it in a stupidly short period of time. But then I can keep it as an in-law apartment. (a rather un-useful one)
Any input from u guys on if its worth my time to try and fight something like this either by trying to wade through the regs myself or consulting an attorney who specializes in this sort of thing? If an attorney, any specific specialty I should be looking/asking for? If it helps, this is a 'gentlemens farm' on 5 acres with some rather fancy houses nearby, many of which I am pretty sure have guest houses. Am finding it rather hard to believe none of them have kitchens or laundry in them. Heck, they allow sinks and laundry in a horse barn, but not an in-law apartment? Gotta love it when crazy zoning laws run amok.
When did the zoning laws/rules come into effect that they are claiming you violate? If the structure and use was there previous to the zoning law you have a very good case to object. Once I built a shed, that would violate the city new zoning law, but I erected it in 5 days, the week before their council meeting so that it would be pre-exisiting usage, and therefore grandfathered.
How did they find out you rent it out ? some neighbor pissed at you ?
BlueSeaLake said: When did the zoning laws/rules come into effect that they are claiming you violate? If the structure and use was there previous to the zoning law you have a very good case to object. Once I built a shed, that would violate the city new zoning law, but I erected it in 5 days, the week before their council meeting so that it would be pre-exisiting usage, and therefore grandfathered.
How did they find out you rent it out ? some neighbor pissed at you ?
I am not sure when the zoning law in question came into being, I assume this is something I'd have to actually go down to the county and start digging through old records. As for who turned me in, of all the stupid things, I was giving away some junk in a storage room below the apartment on craigslist, and a lady that showed up to get some stuff must have been some zoning law freak-a-zoid and noticed someone was living in it. She was going on and on about preservation of the community, money isn't everything, then took my free stuff and left. My neighbors were fine with it.
I called BofA to see what type of mortgage I would qualify for. They informed me that my credit score was good (above 800), but I only had 2 items on my credit reports (I've only got 2 credit cards), and they require 4 items to qualify for a conventional loan. Right now I only qualify for a FHA loan. I'm looking to buy a condo, but since I'm only qualified for FHA loans, it really limits my options.
My quesitons: - Would it make sense to just quickly apply for 2 more things that would bump up my number to 4 items on my credit report? I guess my credit report might take a hit, but my credit score seems fine, and I'm perfectly capable of financing two more items. I was thinking a third credit card, and then purchasing a TV or Fridge and financing that. - Are all mortgage lenders going to have the same qualifications? I'd like to qualify for a non-FHA loan just so I have more condos available to me.
gbenson said: BlueSeaLake said: When did the zoning laws/rules come into effect that they are claiming you violate? If the structure and use was there previous to the zoning law you have a very good case to object. Once I built a shed, that would violate the city new zoning law, but I erected it in 5 days, the week before their council meeting so that it would be pre-exisiting usage, and therefore grandfathered.
How did they find out you rent it out ? some neighbor pissed at you ?
I am not sure when the zoning law in question came into being, I assume this is something I'd have to actually go down to the county and start digging through old records. As for who turned me in, of all the stupid things, I was giving away some junk in a storage room below the apartment on craigslist, and a lady that showed up to get some stuff must have been some zoning law freak-a-zoid and noticed someone was living in it. She was going on and on about preservation of the community, money isn't everything, then took my free stuff and left. My neighbors were fine with it.
I looked into a property in California that I was interested in buying and it actually had many zoning violations for a triplex built without a permit. This example may be helpful in some way. Actual property was occupied as multi residential for about 30 years, however the city argued with an ordinance that stated the property had to be occupied as multifamily throughout that entire time period with no more than 5 months vacancy gap at one time in any unit. Actual data showed that the property had several gaps of vacancies which dated back to 10 years, 8, 5, and 1. These 4 instances alone resulted in the case to dispositioned as multi unit being illegal and ordered several areas of the home to be reverted back to oroginal permitted floor plan.
Bought a home that was legally converted to a two family and am living in the whole thing. Still have separate utilities.
I did take down the front doors making a hallway for easy access between the apartments, but can easily put that back and no one would know. I also took the cabinets and appliances out of the second kitchen but the plumbing and connections are all there, and again it can be easily put back and no one would know.
At what point is the house considered a single family again?
gotit said: At what point is the house considered a single family again?
If you are asking practicalities, I'd say when you have single meters, but I think you mean legally so you can save on taxes, etc. Unfortunately you focused on the technical conversion while ignoring the legal aspects (maybe not but you didn't mention them). The legal part can potentially be time intensive and costly. The best idea is to call your city/county assessors office and tell them you want to convert (don't self-incriminate yourself by telling them you already did) and ask the steps. They'll happily tell you. The steps are different for every city, but for reference they are approximately:
1) check your lot is zoned for single family. Normally not a problem from 2-flat to SF, but you never know. 2) Get a building permit for the work,thereby paying permit fees - this will vary based on the value of the work done. You may need separate plumbing and electrical permits, again depends on your city. 3) Have inspection done of the work to get final approval. They may have Violations you need to fix before approval. Unfortunately you may have an anal inspector, so they may give you an out of code deck violation, which means you'll potentially have to tear out and replace the deck, even though it has nothing to do with the permitted work, etc. I was looking at a propery that had 20 something non-related code violations when the inspector came to look at a duplex-up modification, so the guy was forced to sell as he couldn't afford it. I'd guess the guy just pissed off the inspector, because he was definitely an ass with me. 4) Obtain certificate of occupancy - you may or may not need this. 5) Get an Inspection by the assessors office, which will change it in the city records.
Some cities only allow one plumbed kitchen in a single family house, so they may require you pull out the unused connections from the second kitchen.
I have a tax/depreciation question (similar to the other one from a few days ago). From what I understand, depreciation has to be taken no matter what, and if you don't factor it in you'll be on the hook for it anyway. My home was converted to a rental in the middle of 2010. I used Turbo Tax and by some coincidence, my rental income and rental expense matched exactly. Our personal income was quite high that year (AGI over 150K) so I couldn't deduct the loss if depreciation was factored in. Turbo Tax showed a $0 rental income and I was assuming that the loss due to depreciation was suspended to future years. Fast forward to 2011 taxes, I was looking for the 2010 loss to carryover but it did not. I went back to my 2010 taxes to see if I can manually enter the figure and there was no mention of depreciation or suspended rental loss. The $0 rental income was due to income = expenses and there was no mention of depreciation. Did I just lose the depreciation for 2010?
awstick said: Do you have a form 8582 with your 2010 return, or your 2011 for that matter?I did not have Form 8582 in 2010, I have it in 2011. I checked the Depreciation Report in my Schedule E for 2011 and it lists the current depreciation and prior depreciation (as it should have been). I went back to the depreciation portion of my 2010 tax and while it lists down what the depreciation should be as I go through it, it lists Depreciation as 0 in the income/expense summary screen. I checked the Depreciation Report in 2010 and it lists down the depreciation. I tried to reduce my income so that it's less than 150K and it still did not change anything.
I did some more tests and it could be because 2010 is the first year I converted this into a rental and I also checked that "I used this property as a vacation home."
anthonyu said: awstick said: Do you have a form 8582 with your 2010 return, or your 2011 for that matter?I did not have Form 8582 in 2010, I have it in 2011. I checked the Depreciation Report in my Schedule E for 2011 and it lists the current depreciation and prior depreciation (as it should have been). I went back to the depreciation portion of my 2010 tax and while it lists down what the depreciation should be as I go through it, it lists Depreciation as 0 in the income/expense summary screen. I checked the Depreciation Report in 2010 and it lists down the depreciation. I tried to reduce my income so that it's less than 150K and it still did not change anything.
I did some more tests and it could be because 2010 is the first year I converted this into a rental and I also checked that "I used this property as a vacation home."Looks like if I uncheck the "I used this property as a vacation home." option, it will factor in the depreciation and generate form 8582.
I purchased a bank owned home in november did repair(to make it liviable) throught december but the home wasn't rented until jan 1, can I take a loss for the expenses even though there wasn't any rent income that year?
anthonyu said: anthonyu said: awstick said: Do you have a form 8582 with your 2010 return, or your 2011 for that matter?I did not have Form 8582 in 2010, I have it in 2011. I checked the Depreciation Report in my Schedule E for 2011 and it lists the current depreciation and prior depreciation (as it should have been). I went back to the depreciation portion of my 2010 tax and while it lists down what the depreciation should be as I go through it, it lists Depreciation as 0 in the income/expense summary screen. I checked the Depreciation Report in 2010 and it lists down the depreciation. I tried to reduce my income so that it's less than 150K and it still did not change anything.
I did some more tests and it could be because 2010 is the first year I converted this into a rental and I also checked that "I used this property as a vacation home."Looks like if I uncheck the "I used this property as a vacation home." option, it will factor in the depreciation and generate form 8582.
You should consider amending your 2010 return to claim that depreciation if it's at all significant. The rule is if you sell the property you need to deduct from your basis any allowed or allowable depreciation. So whether you claimed it or not you still lose your basis. And if you rented it out for more than 14 days then the depreciation was allowable.
awstick said: anthonyu said: anthonyu said: awstick said: Do you have a form 8582 with your 2010 return, or your 2011 for that matter?I did not have Form 8582 in 2010, I have it in 2011. I checked the Depreciation Report in my Schedule E for 2011 and it lists the current depreciation and prior depreciation (as it should have been). I went back to the depreciation portion of my 2010 tax and while it lists down what the depreciation should be as I go through it, it lists Depreciation as 0 in the income/expense summary screen. I checked the Depreciation Report in 2010 and it lists down the depreciation. I tried to reduce my income so that it's less than 150K and it still did not change anything.
I did some more tests and it could be because 2010 is the first year I converted this into a rental and I also checked that "I used this property as a vacation home."Looks like if I uncheck the "I used this property as a vacation home." option, it will factor in the depreciation and generate form 8582.
You should consider amending your 2010 return to claim that depreciation if it's at all significant. The rule is if you sell the property you need to deduct from your basis any allowed or allowable depreciation. So whether you claimed it or not you still lose your basis. And if you rented it out for more than 14 days then the depreciation was allowable.Yeah, I'm thinking about it. It's a $1600 depreciation. The thing is I already filed my 2011 taxes. Based on my quick experiment with my 2010 taxes the other day, it took out the split between days used for personal use vs. days used as a rental such that the whole property tax and interest was placed on the business and not prorated. The effect is it increased my suspended rental net loss but also reduced my personal expenses, thereby increasing my tax. I'll figure out how to put the split back so that it prorates it, then I'll know what the impact is for 2010 (should be none since it's suspended loss) and 2011.
I had a feeling that something was wrong last year but the weird coincidence of income matching expenses, thereby showing $0 rental profit, made me think that it was just showing $0 because the loss cannot be applied and that the carryover loss was stored in the other forms. Thanks.
Hello, new to the rental property concept. Hubby and i are purchasing a condo and have consulted an attorney - he has told us to open a checking account for the rental property and keep very detailed records regarding any costs incurred and he explained depreciating value - which was very helpful. Here is the problem, a family member, who is not able to pay fair market rent will be living in the condo so hubby and I will be "taking a financial hit" on this little venture. "Family member" has been living with us for the past 4 years and has been paying us rent every month - the same rate she will pay for living in the condo. I'm trying to figure out how far "in the red" we are going to be by the end of the year so we can try to stay above water if we can. Oh, we are paying cash for the condo so will not have a mortgage. I'm just having problems with the math. We have to purchase a refrigerator three ceiling fan/light combo's and a stackable washer/dryer. Otherwise, it is move-in ready and there is a 10 year warranty on appliances, etc. (New construction) We feel we made a good purchase because all the other condos we were looking at for the same price were about 17 years old and no warranty and needed work. I understand we can get a tax credit for our insurance, HOA dues, utilities, etc. Any thoughts or advice on this little venture would be appreciated. What kind of spreadsheet or other organizational tool could I use so i can get a clear picture of how this all works? Family member also gets a receipt for monthly rent payments. Family member will have rental insurance in addition to the insurance we hold (the master insurance plan for the condo community is quite good as well) Can someone please help me organize all these details in a meaningful way? Thank you so much
No direct experience...I'd suggest you read up on IRS rental property rules, possibly pub 527, is it. The concern would be that your expenses (write off) are limited bc you aren't charging fair market. Even with inter-family loans there are min requirements. Certainly a separate checking account and possibly credit card ( for purchases) are the way to go. Though I'm not sure that the Govt has gotten to the point of willingly knowing every detail of your life, so may be fair game, should you choose. What is the diff between market and what you charge.
Closed on a 2nd house 2 weeks ago, and now the loan officer emailed me and asked me for statements to show that I have $1500 more than what I showed I had in reserve when I did the loan. Is this normal procedure? They're just trying to make it easier to sell the loan right?
braundkb said: Hello, new to the rental property concept. Hubby and i are purchasing a condo and have consulted an attorney - he has told us to open a checking account for the rental property and keep very detailed records regarding any costs incurred and he explained depreciating value - which was very helpful. Here is the problem, a family member, who is not able to pay fair market rent will be living in the condo so hubby and I will be "taking a financial hit" on this little venture. "Family member" has been living with us for the past 4 years and has been paying us rent every month - the same rate she will pay for living in the condo. I'm trying to figure out how far "in the red" we are going to be by the end of the year so we can try to stay above water if we can. Oh, we are paying cash for the condo so will not have a mortgage. I'm just having problems with the math. We have to purchase a refrigerator three ceiling fan/light combo's and a stackable washer/dryer. Otherwise, it is move-in ready and there is a 10 year warranty on appliances, etc. (New construction) We feel we made a good purchase because all the other condos we were looking at for the same price were about 17 years old and no warranty and needed work. I understand we can get a tax credit for our insurance, HOA dues, utilities, etc. Any thoughts or advice on this little venture would be appreciated. What kind of spreadsheet or other organizational tool could I use so i can get a clear picture of how this all works? Family member also gets a receipt for monthly rent payments. Family member will have rental insurance in addition to the insurance we hold (the master insurance plan for the condo community is quite good as well) Can someone please help me organize all these details in a meaningful way? Thank you so much
You don't get a tax credit for "insurance, HOA dues, utilities, etc.", but you do get to deduct those from the rental income. Basically its: Rent charged - costs (condo fee, taxes, utilities, insurance, repairs) - depreciation (cost of condo + improvements all spread over 27.5 yrs) = your net income (which is either positive or negative).
I really strongly suggest you go to the library and take out 3-4 books on being a landlord, otherwise your lawyer (and an accountant) will be more than happy to help you while emptying your wallet.
braundkb said: Hello, new to the rental property concept. Hubby and i are purchasing a condo and have consulted an attorney - he has told us to open a checking account for the rental property and keep very detailed records regarding any costs incurred and he explained depreciating value - which was very helpful. Here is the problem, a family member, who is not able to pay fair market rent will be living in the condo so hubby and I will be "taking a financial hit" on this little venture. "Family member" has been living with us for the past 4 years and has been paying us rent every month - the same rate she will pay for living in the condo. I'm trying to figure out how far "in the red" we are going to be by the end of the year so we can try to stay above water if we can. Oh, we are paying cash for the condo so will not have a mortgage. I'm just having problems with the math. We have to purchase a refrigerator three ceiling fan/light combo's and a stackable washer/dryer. Otherwise, it is move-in ready and there is a 10 year warranty on appliances, etc. (New construction) We feel we made a good purchase because all the other condos we were looking at for the same price were about 17 years old and no warranty and needed work. I understand we can get a tax credit for our insurance, HOA dues, utilities, etc. Any thoughts or advice on this little venture would be appreciated. What kind of spreadsheet or other organizational tool could I use so i can get a clear picture of how this all works? Family member also gets a receipt for monthly rent payments. Family member will have rental insurance in addition to the insurance we hold (the master insurance plan for the condo community is quite good as well) Can someone please help me organize all these details in a meaningful way? Thank you so much lol @ calling voluntary cash flow negative landlording a "little venture"
Primary residence is paid for. If I take a $70k home equity loan on my primary, and use it to buy a rental property, is the interest a deduction on SCHEDULE E??
If yes, will the IRS care if I use cash I already have on hand to buy the property today, and use the home equity loan proceeds to replenish that cash. In other words, do I still get the deduction if I get the home equity loan shortly after closing on the rental property?
b534202 said: Closed on a 2nd house 2 weeks ago, and now the loan officer emailed me and asked me for statements to show that I have $1500 more than what I showed I had in reserve when I did the loan. Is this normal procedure? They're just trying to make it easier to sell the loan right?
I've never seen them come back and ask that. Not sure what their reason. I'm interested to see what others think. I'm not sure I'd worry much about it. They've already closed the loan.
AFAIK you should show losses. You should already have an expense account running for the money spent in mileage, meals, internet, computer, cell phone etc used while purchasing the property. All of those will also add to the losses
Since you actively managed the property during that time, this loss will reduce any other income during the year.
marigil22 said: I purchased a bank owned home in november did repair(to make it liviable) throught december but the home wasn't rented until jan 1, can I take a loss for the expenses even though there wasn't any rent income that year?
dpa789kd said: b534202 said: Closed on a 2nd house 2 weeks ago, and now the loan officer emailed me and asked me for statements to show that I have $1500 more than what I showed I had in reserve when I did the loan. Is this normal procedure? They're just trying to make it easier to sell the loan right?
I've never seen them come back and ask that. Not sure what their reason. I'm interested to see what others think. I'm not sure I'd worry much about it. They've already closed the loan.
Primary residence is paid for. If I take a $70k home equity loan on my primary, and use it to buy a rental property, is the interest a deduction on SCHEDULE E??
If yes, will the IRS care if I use cash I already have on hand to buy the property today, and use the home equity loan proceeds to replenish that cash. In other words, do I still get the deduction if I get the home equity loan shortly after closing on the rental property?
Think about it for a second, which sounds like the irs would let you take the deductions:
1) borrow $$ and use that $$$ to buy a place to rent out. 2) buy a place with $$ and then a week later borrow $$ from bank and spend it in Las Vegas..
Obviously money is fungible, but you can only deduct interest paid on $$ that is used to buy/repair your rental. So borrow the bucks before you buy the property, or use cash to buy, and then take out a HELO on the rental building after about 6 months.
needdealsnow said: I would ask them why they need it now
dpa789kd said: b534202 said: Closed on a 2nd house 2 weeks ago, and now the loan officer emailed me and asked me for statements to show that I have $1500 more than what I showed I had in reserve when I did the loan. Is this normal procedure? They're just trying to make it easier to sell the loan right?
I've never seen them come back and ask that. Not sure what their reason. I'm interested to see what others think. I'm not sure I'd worry much about it. They've already closed the loan.
Yeah somehow there was no email reply from the loan officer today. I wonder what excuse she's trying to come up with.
A home equity loan's interest is deductable regardless of what you spend it on. The IRS won't know and doesn't care. So in your case it doesn't matter. The question is though, why you would want to borrow money and pay interest on that money just to save it at a much lower interest rate. You'd be better off saving up your money on your own again.
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