Over the past few weeks i had some time to look at the fatwallet discussions and move out of my aging ING savings account that i had opened in the past.
Due to some rate chasing, etc. i ended up opening an account in 3-4 online banks, here is my reviews and feedback on them.
ING Direct: Simple and easy web interface, has fallen way behind in interest rates
HSBC Internet: Rate is not the best in the market, but if you are dealing with large amounts of money, they are the only ones who have high ACH limits ($100k outgoing per day, $300k incoming per day). Their ACH transfers take 3-4 days but are free. Currently my best preference, except their interest rate is not as high as CountryWide or MBNA is giving.
Citibank eSavings: These guys are a joke. Its been 2 weeks and I still cannot view my accounts online. On top of that, they have a silly $50k monthly limit on ACH and charge $3 per outgoing ACH. Definitely needs their heads examined and my worst experience so far.
MBNA MoneyMarket: Giving the highest interest rates so far (5% APY), but ZERO online access. Have no idea which Internet world these guys are living in.
Bank of America: As a regular bank, these guys seem to have the best online banking interface (they acquired the one from Fleet when they acquired it). If only they would wake up and start being competitive in their interest rates...
During my research, i also looked at eTrade and CountryWide. They both are reputable and seem to have good web sites, but i have no idea about the nuances of their online banking (e.g. Citibank was quite a setback once you sign up and start seeing their nickel and diming on ACH transfers, etc.).
avikas said: MBNA MoneyMarket: Giving the highest interest rates so far (5% APY), but ZERO online access. Have no idea which Internet world these guys are living in.
They just haven't recovered from the horror of Y2k. Baby steps.
jackiechiles
Addicted Member
posted: Jun. 4, 2006 @ 8:32p
avikas said: Citibank eSavings: These guys are a joke. Its been 2 weeks and I still cannot view my accounts online. On top of that, they have a silly $50k monthly limit on ACH and charge $3 per outgoing ACH. Definitely needs their heads examined and my worst experience so far.Not sure how you could be two weeks in and not have online access ... I opened my EZ checking account online and was given immediate access, and then opened my eSavings from a link on the account summary page and thus had immediate access to the eSavings as well. Did you apply by phone?
Some of your complaints vis-a-vis the ACH system are valid, particularly if you're a big money player or are involved in the BT game. However, for a regular jack like me, the Citibank setup works great. I have direct deposit of my paycheck into the eSavings, and after it hits on payday, I distribute the total amount I need for current bills over to checking (thus reducing the likelihood of exceeding the six transfers per month limit). Once the checking account is funded, I can do instant payments to CitiMortgage and all of my CitiCards, and I can also do billpay for stuff like my Comcast bill. The leftover just stays in savings and earns a pretty decent 4.75%.
My experience with the eSavings account was similar to jackiechiles. I also had a Citi checking account and it took a few minutes to open the eSavings account. I think the rate is ok at 4.75%, considering it is very liquid for me (I use Citi for checking so I don't loose anything for ACH transfers) and I don't need to manage another relationship. It also helps that I have 2 branches near my home and one next to where I work. I can understand that if you are rate-chasing and/or have large balances, the 50k transfer constraint may be limiting.
I actually dislike HSBC greatly because of the long time it took to set up the account and the excessively slow transfers. Their implementation of ACH transfers with taking money out of your account and holding for a few days leaves a bad taste. Because of the hassle I moved most our money out of there after HSBCs last deal. I will only go back if there is a longer term value as I take the 6 lost days of interest on transfers in/out into account.
I agree that interface is not as good as BofA's, but it is not "bad". It is also better for banking than it is for credit cards, IMO. I actually prefer the Citicards.com interface for credit cards more.
avikas said: During my research, i also looked at eTrade and CountryWide. They both are reputable and seem to have good web sites, but i have no idea about the nuances of their online banking.
I've used ETrade online banking for years. ACH transfers & online bill pay has always been very reliable for me. Interest rates aren't the best. Customer service is crummy at ETrade, though.
this has been well organized here http://www.fatwallet.com/t/52/437553/
mrng
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 4, 2006 @ 10:30p
I too have been trying to decide between these banks and have read several of these threads, only to be confused. GMAC seems to be popular, but does not support quicken.
HSBC seems to be too slow
ING is not too competitive with thier rates.
Does anyone have recommendations.
mariojm
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jun. 4, 2006 @ 11:20p
Why not point out the positives rather than negatives?
ING - Easy to open CDs. Very quick and easy to open account.
HSBC - Very quick access to your money if you also use their checking account. Even more useful if you live near B&M because you can deposit money and transfer it instantly to online savings.
Citi - Same as HSBC, except also very quick and easy to open account.
hoffjm00
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jun. 4, 2006 @ 11:22p
mrng said: I too have been trying to decide between these banks and have read several of these threads, only to be confused. GMAC seems to be popular, but does not support quicken.
HSBC seems to be too slow
ING is not too competitive with thier rates.
Does anyone have recommendations.
I think that HSBC gets a bad rap. They use ACH, which by definition takes 3 business days. It's hard to blame them too for waiting for it to clear; why not just make a $300K transfer and withdraw it before they find out there's NSF?
jasonb885
Member
posted: Jun. 4, 2006 @ 11:29p
I am very, very pleased with GMAC after my experience with HSBC. GMAC's sign up was fast, the Web site very friendly, and the CSR I spoke with after I made a mistake with account verification was friendly. I did get hit up with a signature card, but it was postage paid.
anakinskywalker
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Jun. 4, 2006 @ 11:31p
hoffjm00 said: mrng said: I too have been trying to decide between these banks and have read several of these threads, only to be confused. GMAC seems to be popular, but does not support quicken.
HSBC seems to be too slow
ING is not too competitive with thier rates.
Does anyone have recommendations.
I think that HSBC gets a bad rap. They use ACH, which by definition takes 3 business days. It's hard to blame them too for waiting for it to clear; why not just make a $300K transfer and withdraw it before they find out there's NSF?
I don't understand your argument. Why should there be an NSF issue here ? They don't have to make the money AVAILABLE for WITHDRAWAL till they verify there is no NSF issue.
All they are being asked to do is to start paying interest on the money as soon as the money has been deducted from (and stopped earning interest in) the other account.
They don't do that. Instead, you lose three days of interest earning period, as your money is in neither one account nor the other.
No other bank cheats the customer out of as much interest as HSBC does with its delayed ACH transfers.
Anakin
xaynx
New Member
posted: Jun. 5, 2006 @ 3:04a
I had ING and about 3 weeks ago applied for HSBC, I got my userid in postal mail a week ago, and I am still waiting for my password. It's been 3 weeks and I still can't login onto my account, I'm glad I put a very small initial deposit coz I wasn't sure how good they are. ING was way faster but their rate sucks (they just sent me an email with an increase 2 days ago, but even that one still sucks)... I am waiting for another winter-saving type promo at ING to transfer my money back into it. and hopefully I'll get access to my HSBC account soon so I can put the money that is now in my checking account (that used to be in ING) there...
tbuccelli said: My experience with the eSavings account was similar to jackiechiles. I also had a Citi checking account and it took a few minutes to open the eSavings account. I think the rate is ok at 4.75%, considering it is very liquid for me (I use Citi for checking so I don't loose anything for ACH transfers) and I don't need to manage another relationship. It also helps that I have 2 branches near my home and one next to where I work. I can understand that if you are rate-chasing and/or have large balances, the 50k transfer constraint may be limiting.
I have great experience with eSavings. I do have Citibank checking account to begin with. And opening eSavings only take couple minutes and I can access my eSavings online with Citibank account within hour. Now that Citibank has agreement with 7-eleven, you can access ATM in 7-Eleven without any fee. And you can access your money from any Citibank branches.
hoffjm00
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jun. 5, 2006 @ 7:18a
anakinskywalker said: hoffjm00 said: mrng said: I too have been trying to decide between these banks and have read several of these threads, only to be confused. GMAC seems to be popular, but does not support quicken.
HSBC seems to be too slow
ING is not too competitive with thier rates.
Does anyone have recommendations.
I think that HSBC gets a bad rap. They use ACH, which by definition takes 3 business days. It's hard to blame them too for waiting for it to clear; why not just make a $300K transfer and withdraw it before they find out there's NSF?
I don't understand your argument. Why should there be an NSF issue here ? They don't have to make the money AVAILABLE for WITHDRAWAL till they verify there is no NSF issue.
All they are being asked to do is to start paying interest on the money as soon as the money has been deducted from (and stopped earning interest in) the other account.
They don't do that. Instead, you lose three days of interest earning period, as your money is in neither one account nor the other.
No other bank cheats the customer out of as much interest as HSBC does with its delayed ACH transfers.
Anakin
I don't understand YOUR argument. You are still missing the point - until the funds clear, HSBC doesn't have the funds in their possession to pay interest on. Of course there is an insufficient funds issue. I could still make the same hypothetical $300K transfer and earn a few days interest on it even though I don't have $300 in the originating account. By the time they figure out, I've made a few dollars in the process. That type of fraud is what HSBC is trying to avoid.
There's no such thing as a delayed ACH. ACH takes three business days FOR EVERYONE USING THE SYSTEM, HSBC and others. To say they "cheat" their customers is libelous.
RS4Rings
Back in Rehab
posted: Jun. 5, 2006 @ 7:45a
hoffjm00 said:
There's no such thing as a delayed ACH. ACH takes three business days FOR EVERYONE USING THE SYSTEM, HSBC and others. To say they "cheat" their customers is libelous. I understand that you must allow up to 3 days for ACH, But why is it some do quicker? I know when I transfer from Emigrant it goes thru the next day while ING and HSBC always takes the full 3 days.
CoffeeEater
Greedy Member
posted: Jun. 5, 2006 @ 7:49a
jasonb885 said: I am very, very pleased with GMAC after my experience with HSBC. GMAC's sign up was fast, the Web site very friendly, and the CSR I spoke with after I made a mistake with account verification was friendly. I did get hit up with a signature card, but it was postage paid.
I have all of the above accounts and my money is with GMAC. So many great features that the others don't have...plus the high rate.
I write my rent check from my GMAC savings account each month, do ATM withdrawals and get my fees refunded, etc.
hoffjm00 said: You are still missing the point - until the funds clear, HSBC doesn't have the funds in their possession to pay interest on. Of course there is an insufficient funds issue. I could still make the same hypothetical $300K transfer and earn a few days interest on it even though I don't have $300 in the originating account. By the time they figure out, I've made a few dollars in the process. That type of fraud is what HSBC is trying to avoid.Other measures are in existence to prevent this type of fraud from taking place. First, until the account is fully settled in accordance with the Federal Reserve and the National Automated Clearing House Association rules, the financial institution can put a hold not just on the principal in question but on all the interest thereon. If the transfer is then reversed, the institution not only avoids any losses directly attributable to the reversal but can and does fine the account holder.
There's no such thing as a delayed ACH. ACH takes three business days FOR EVERYONE USING THE SYSTEM, HSBC and others. To say they "cheat" their customers is libelous.What is the source of your information? The period between origination and settlement may range from SEVERAL HOURS to several days.
By the way, in certain situations (that do not, to my knowledge, apply to regular interbank ACH transfers in question), Regulation E can extend the final settlement date to 60 days or so.
dev77 said: anyone know what the interest rates of these accounts are currently?Check the stickie!
seantay00
Member
posted: Jun. 5, 2006 @ 3:21p
Anyone have any thoughts as to how Emmigrant stacks up? Also if you join without any promo's (ie. receiving $25 cash or something), can you cancel an account at anytime without a fee or penalty?
FWgunn
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 5, 2006 @ 4:11p
I'd like the throw in my two cents for VirtualBank.
VirtualBank.com * Interest rates not the highest but still fairly competitive (4.6% vs 4.75% @ Citibank). * Super quick (faster than ING and MUCH faster than HSBC). Experience: Request ACH pull from BofA on Mon, money leaves my acct Tue, and interest starts accruing on the cash on Wed. * Good customer service - the few times I called I was immediately able to speak to someone with a clue. Try that with Citibank and their indian call centers. * Really easy to open up a CD with them using funds already on deposit -- took me <10 minutes a few months ago to take some of my cash and lock in a 6-mo CD @ 5.25% * Member get a member program. Referral system allows new members to pocket $20 when you refer them (and get $20).
FWgunn said: I'd like the throw in my two cents for VirtualBank.
VirtualBank.com * Interest rates not the highest but still fairly competitive (4.6% vs 4.75% @ Citibank). * Super quick (faster than ING and MUCH faster than HSBC). Experience: Request ACH pull from BofA on Mon, money leaves my acct Tue, and interest starts accruing on the cash on Wed. * Good customer service - the few times I called I was immediately able to speak to someone with a clue. Try that with VB * Really easy to open up a CD with them using funds already on deposit -- took me <10 minutes a few months ago to take some of my cash and lock in a 6-mo CD @ 5.25% * Member get a member program. Referral system allows new members to pocket $20 when you refer them (and get $20).
Take all the points you made (minus referral) plus: *Higher savings account rate *Higher CD rates *50 free checks and check writing capability *Free atm card *No atm fee *$6/month atm reimbursement for other bank's atm
CoffeeEater said: jasonb885 said: I am very, very pleased with GMAC after my experience with HSBC. GMAC's sign up was fast, the Web site very friendly, and the CSR I spoke with after I made a mistake with account verification was friendly. I did get hit up with a signature card, but it was postage paid.
I have all of the above accounts and my money is with GMAC. So many great features that the others don't have...plus the high rate.
I write my rent check from my GMAC savings account each month, do ATM withdrawals and get my fees refunded, etc.
I completely agree...GMAC blows the others out of the water. Plus, you can link all the other ones to GMAC to quickly drain them into GMAC.
dodgeman007
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 5, 2006 @ 7:30p
jackiechiles said: avikas said: Citibank eSavings: These guys are a joke. Its been 2 weeks and I still cannot view my accounts online. On top of that, they have a silly $50k monthly limit on ACH and charge $3 per outgoing ACH. Definitely needs their heads examined and my worst experience so far.Not sure how you could be two weeks in and not have online access ... I opened my EZ checking account online and was given immediate access, and then opened my eSavings from a link on the account summary page and thus had immediate access to the eSavings as well. Did you apply by phone?
Some of your complaints vis-a-vis the ACH system are valid, particularly if you're a big money player or are involved in the BT game. However, for a regular jack like me, the Citibank setup works great. I have direct deposit of my paycheck into the eSavings, and after it hits on payday, I distribute the total amount I need for current bills over to checking (thus reducing the likelihood of exceeding the six transfers per month limit). Once the checking account is funded, I can do instant payments to CitiMortgage and all of my CitiCards, and I can also do billpay for stuff like my Comcast bill. The leftover just stays in savings and earns a pretty decent 4.75%.
same here i opened my acct moved 15K in the same day, it was there 2 days later and the same day instantly i was able to see my acct online, while i have a decent savings i cant say that i want to move around 50K plus a month, why would anyone need to move that much around from savings to something on a regular enough basis to make it a big deal? i guess im not as rich as you are.
asdf83
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 5, 2006 @ 8:28p
Presidential Checking (Currently 4.5% APY):
Good: -Unlimited withdrawals (obviously it's checking) -Check writing (obviously) -Free bill pay with fund withdrawal only when check is cashed -VISA Debit card -Historically competitive interst rates -Statements stored FOREVER (why the hell can't anyone else do this)
BAD: -They sure don't waste your money on the website... -1k minimim otherwise $5/month -More than 25K and interst rate goes down -Historical statements/check images use crappy seperate but functional systems -Pin number can't be changed online or over phone -VISA debit card takes 3 monthes -Hard credit pull -Direct deposit required
My Experience: -All transfers to/from emigrant have happened overnight -ATM withdrawals reflected immediately in available balance -2 Calls to customer service. Short wait, good CSR.
My (Biased) Conclusion: -Best account to direct deposit into and bill pay with IMHO -1k min is moot considering the interst the account earns -hard pull is bummer -not playing "the lets keep the checking account as low as possible and only transfer in 1 day before i make a payment because it pays crap interst and screw it up and pay a fee" game is great -Historical statments are fantasic, every account should have this. I don't need to spend a second organizing my statments just like i don't need to spend a second doing the above
mhesidence
Dismembered Member
posted: Jun. 5, 2006 @ 9:44p
2 cents for a Fidelity account. $100 sign-up bonus with 10K deposit. Free checks. Yielding 4.8% right now. See thread.
I realize that they are FDIC insured, but with General Motors' recent financial difficulties, is anyone concerned about the fact that GMAC Bank is part of GM?
searching4deals said: I realize that they are FDIC insured, but with General Motors' recent financial difficulties, is anyone concerned about the fact that GMAC Bank is part of GM?
hoffjm00 said: searching4deals said: I realize that they are FDIC insured, but with General Motors' recent financial difficulties, is anyone concerned about the fact that GMAC Bank is part of GM?
FDIC insured, majority owned by outside investors, it is your loss not to sign up.
pakesack
Greedy Member
posted: Jun. 6, 2006 @ 1:30a
i agree with everyone who says gmac is the best. i have accounts with hsbc, virtualbank, ing, emigrant, and citi. none of the other accounts can match gmac in terms of web interface, competitive rates, and speed of transfers. only thing that sucks with gmac is you dont get any bonuses for opening a new account.
hoffjm00
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jun. 6, 2006 @ 6:43a
x43b said: hoffjm00 said: searching4deals said: I realize that they are FDIC insured, but with General Motors' recent financial difficulties, is anyone concerned about the fact that GMAC Bank is part of GM?
FDIC insured, majority owned by outside investors, it is your loss not to sign up.
Not really. I prefer HSBC. If my loss for piece of mind and an actual branch in my area is .1% interest, then so be it.
And btw, that majorty is 51%.
x43b
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 6, 2006 @ 8:17a
hoffjm00 said: x
Not really. I prefer HSBC. If my loss for piece of mind and an actual branch in my area is .1% interest, then so be it.
And btw, that majorty is 51%.
I have no vested interest in you using GMAC Bank, use whatever you want. However by using HSBC you are losing more than .1% interest. You are also losing 2-3 days of interest every time you transfer funds from exterior accounts. You are also losing access to easy to open (<5 min) high rate CDs. Also I have a B&M checking account with tons of local branches, at any given time I can deposit/cash a GMAC check, make an atm withdrawal, and have as "instant" access to my money as I want. I don't know how that would change at all if there was an "actual branch" located at any street corner. What would I do if there was a physical GMAC Bank? I'd probably write a check or make an atm withdrawal.
If FDIC insurance, majority ownership by an exterior group, the 10 billion plus cash hoard that GM has, that multi BILLION DOLLAR PROFIT that GMAC makes every year and continues to make means you lose "piece [sic] of mind", you have paranoia issues.
RS4Rings
Back in Rehab
posted: Jun. 6, 2006 @ 8:32a
x43b said:
If FDIC insurance, majority ownership by an exterior group, the 10 billion plus cash hoard that GM has, that multi BILLION DOLLAR PROFIT that GMAC makes every year and continues to make means you lose "piece [sic] of mind", you have paranoia issues. Not quite Billions in profit but a net profit of $90.7830 million with an ROA of 2.64% makes them look to be a very safe bank. I don't have an account with them but I would have no problem using them. Would rather open with them than one of those $100 Million in total assets CU's we see here
From Bankrate: GMAC BANK GREENVILLE, Delaware bankrate.com. Star Rating лллл Safe & Sound CAELSM Rating 2G
GMAC BANK is a nationally-chartered thrift institution, which, as of December 31, 2005, reported $9.6652 billion in total assets. Mortgage loans and deposits held by the institution, at that date, amounted to $9.3094 billion and $4.2184 billion respectively. December 2005 net worth, the difference between total assets and total thrift liabilities, was determined to have been $708.7850 million which was 7.33% of total assets. For the year ended December 31, 2005, the company recorded net income of $127.8020 million which represented an annualized return on assets (ROA) of 1.99%. Year earlier full year results amount to a net profit of $90.7830 million or a 2.64% annualized ROA. An ROA of 1.0%, within the banking community, is a benchmark of solid profitability, and the thrift industry's ROA for the full year of 2005 approximated 1.2%.
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