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rated:
(work in progress. please refrain from OT posts, thanks!)

App-O-Rama
is getting a lot more popular, especially as its become much more profitable to take 0% money and deposit it into bank accounts paying 5-6% or more. With some people acquiring six figure total CC limits, it is becoming possible to make several THOUSAND dollars per year doing an App-O-Rama. Naturally, had to dustoff the SIS screename for this one.

History: The thread that started it all. A MUST-READ to familiarize yourself with App-O-Rama. It started innocent enough - I just wanted to shop for products that required credit inquiries all at once , instead of spacing inquries out every few months. This way I could get a bunch of credit, and all the inquiries would be gone 2 years later. I found out a lot of interesting things along the way (like some credit report services will not COUNT same-day inquiries) which reinforced the benefits of an App-O-Rama strategy.

Also be sure to read the linked threads in the Credit Card FAQ as they address most common questions people have about credit cards (closing accounts, getting too many, credit score, etc)

WHERE TO START:

1. Select cards for your App-O-Rama

2. How many cards should I get?

Usually 2-3 cards PER ISSUER (Chase, Citi, AM.EX, etc) is the most a person with perfect credit can reasonably expect , before you start running into rejections for "multiple applications". I like my App-O-Ramas to include about 10-20 cards. Depends entirely on your personal needs and credit situation.

3. When should I do the App-O-Rama?
Since some credit reporting services used by lenders deduct SAME DAY inquiries, I want as many inquiries to hit on the same day as possible. So I start early in the morning (most banks are on East Coast time) during the beginning/middle of the week. Some applications pull your credit as soon as you submit an online or phone app, some send the application to the "back office" for further processing, and they may not pull credit till later that day, or a few days later. We dont seem to be able to control when the lender will actually perform the pull.

4. Should I get joint cards or authorized user cards?
I say no. See my thread in the QuickSummary on the evils of joint accounts. If you get just individual cards, EACH person can apply for the same card, potentially getting greater total credit lines.

5. I got approved for a card, but it came with a small credit limit because I have other higher limit cards with that issuer. What should I do?
Dont worry, see this thread many issuers let you move or reallocate the credit lines, so you can move a large portion of your credit lines to the card with the best offer.

6. What are some risks of App-O-Rama?
A poorly thought out App-O-Rama wont help you much, but shouldnt hurt you beyond the credit inquiry hits. However, there have been instances of people experiencing adverse effects on their credit when lenders got spooked. Discuss them here, and also read about it in the archived thread linked in the QuickSummary. Of course, if you spend all that newfound credit, it could spell financial disaster for you. And dont even think of trying to apply for a bunch of credit just to default or leave the country.

7. How much are people making doing this?
A lot. For someone with a good credit profile, $200-300k in new credit lines during one App-O-Rama is not unheard of. And with some creative reallocating of existing credit lines, and high interest deposit acccounts, profit of $15-20,000 or more per YEAR is possible. Do I think this qualifies as one of Fatwallet's Hottest Deals ever? Yes. But only if done right. Those with limited credit history, small credit lines, etc will not be able to get such large credit lines.

8. Tell us your stories!
There have been MANY App-O-Rama success stories posted in this forum. I linked some recent ones in the QuickSummary. Please feel free to link your App-O-Rama thread. if you didnt feel like doing a whole thread, a simple reply to this post listing the benefits you gained from App-O-Rama would be helpful.

9. I still have more questions. Help!
While I cannot spend all my time answering PM's , I will try to help those get started if you PM me and ask nicely Note: The App-O-Rama has been extensively discussed in this forum in the many threads linked in the Quicksummary, and you should AT LEAST carefully read through this introductory post first. Rather than create a new thread asking questions about App-O-Rama, ask them here. As you can see, the most valuable App-O-Rama threads are those where the member did their research and documented their experiences.

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Other FW Members post their App-O-Rama Experiences

NOTE: Please add your Summary and Statistics in the following thread.
Summary and Statistics for Several Recent AOR'S

2009


2008


2007


2006

2005


SIS' App-O-Rama threads, and other of my Credit Related threads

SIS App-O-Rama #1
SIS App-O-Rama #2

Possible negative impacts of App-O-Rama
Credit Card Limits thread
Multiple credit lines from the same issuer
good debt vs. bad debt, and using credit to MAKE money
The evils of JOINT accounts
Business Credit Cards thread (Archived)

Other FW Threads
Business Credit cards thread 2007 (The MEGA biz card thread)
The Unofficial Penultimate Credit Union Post
Maximum annual income I ever earned from CC BT interest rate arbitrage and CC/bank rewards
How to make money with Balance Transfers
0% BT cards with no or low fees
link to BOA no fee 0% BT CC deals
How to get the Balance Transfer money from CC companys that don't transfer to checking accounts
Credit cards which allow you to move / shift / reallocate credit lines among various cards from that issuer
A Summary of techniques for receiving BT money into your checking
Credit Card Application status check thread: Online / Phone
Credit Limit Increases: Strategies for CLI Without a Hard Pull
FAQ discussion: GETTING, KEEPING high credit / FICO scores. Glossary, data points, utilization, etc.
Credit score monitoring
$12,000 credit card bonuses
Why you should get business credit for your AoR!
Citi now allows ACH to checking account on their website


Other Related Rama's
Vmaxer's Mortga-App-O-Rama
Cameron2003's chaotic CrapORama
markkundinger May 2006 Stuff O Rama
Investing w/ credit line promo rates: strategies, FAQ , links, AOR info, etc. RE making $$$ from credit

Useful App-O-Rama related resources from elsewhere
[Mod Edit: Inappropriate content edited out.]
PLEASE NO SPAMMING


Yodlee Money Center
A key ingredient to managing a large number of credit-cards, bank, and other accounts.
App-O-Rama.com
A good listing of card offers, including 0% APR No Fee BT's

[Mod Edit: Inappropriate content edited out.]

Message edited by: scottxmso on 2010-06-06 13:55:58 CDT

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Green for SIS!

I'd recommend applying for more than 3 cards with Chase and Citi in an AOR though. I had no problem getting 6 chase cards approved within a month. And for citi I'd just keep applying till I get rejections.

rated:
Added some more archived AORs to the QuickSummary.

5.0. I got approved for a card, but it came with a small credit limit because I have other higher limit cards with that issuer. What should I do?
Dont worry, see this thread many issuers let you move or reallocate the credit lines, so you can move a large portion of your credit lines to the card with the best offer. Definitely consider reallocation prior to making BTs if a card issuer charges BT fees with a maximum. It's better to pay $75 once on a reallocated (or consolidated) line than multiple times.

5.1 Consolidate if Reallocation isn't an option. Some card issuers may not allow credit line reallocation, but do allow two cards to be consolidated (BofA for example). Consider consolidating your old card into your new card for additional available credit before initiating your 0% BT.

Also, people should check out the list of 0% offers and signup bonuses over at the App-O-Rama site.

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GOOD TO SEE YOU BACK SIS - FWF has SORELY MISSED YOU!

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I have some questions and since I have questioned the logic of App-O-Rama, I guess I will play devils advocate here or possible be convinced to do one. You say you could make $15,000 to $20,000 PER YEAR playing the game but since most cards have a limited time of 0% wouldn't that require you to do an App-O-Rama every year? Would your score recover enough to do another in a time frame that short? Also I would think that someone who has the credit profile and income to get lines of $200k-$300k could have the ability to make better money in RE or some other business venture. I am not criticizing the game and have seen that some here have made it work well for them and I guess I am just looking for some more info to help me decide

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scott1961 said: since most cards have a limited time of 0% wouldn't that require you to do an App-O-Rama every year? Would your score recover enough to do another in a time frame that short No and Yes.

0% offers often come on existing accounts too, not just new ones. Remember, you dont ALWAYS need to keep the money out, you can pay it all back when the promo expires, and get a "clean" credit report again, ready for a new App-O-Rama. I think you are presuming that you dont pay back the CCs year after year. Even that is possible year to year if you have a spouse/family member and can "switchoff", so one person has good credit and can apply while the other is carrying the debt. Then switch all the debt when the other person applies. I dont always need to keep the debt outstanding, I can pay it off and apply for new cards every year or even sooner (while they dont disappear for 2 years, the effect of inquiries diminishes greatly after just 6 months...and there are ways of removing the inquiries via bumpage and disputes if you REALLY want them off)

App-O-Rama is not so time consuming that you cant do other things like RE. I am a RE investor, among other pursuits. And I do App-O-Rama. Several other FW vets are App-O-Rama vets and RE investors too. Its a nice extra chunk of change.

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Great idea and thanks for the work!

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Excellent idea SIS.
This should be stickied right under your invesment/rental property thread.

I personally have done quite a few App-O-Ramas to help me transfer significant portions of my debt to 0% for faster pay downs. I then just transfer the remaining balances back to my LOC when the 0% period is up. I have saved myself thousands of dollars over the last couple years doing this.

rated:
Great thread, a small suggestion from a noob would be to include a few paragraphs on 0% offers - how to get them and how to use them correctly. The tricky part that I would like more tips on is getting the CC companies to B/T to your bank account. Requesting a B/T to another card and requesting a check for a credit balance seems like it would throw off red flags.

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thank you

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I just knew one day this name would be back!

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docbells said: I have saved myself thousands of dollars over the last couple years doing this.
Let's hope that the benefits of App-O-Rama will be preserved and banks don't get smart about it, despite of the "spoon-feeding-on-how-to-do-an-apporama", which this thread seems to be headed to...

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brentpresley said: GOOD TO SEE YOU BACK SIS - FWF has SORELY MISSED YOU!

he never left lol DYS=SIS

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Nice timeing on this thread since I'm getting ready for my second app-o-rama in month or two. Pay off old 0% lines, try to get hard free CLI, hide debt from CRA reporting, and just wait for issuers to report to CRAs for max FICO score no problem.

The one thing I'm not sure about is what to do with your credit lines after an app-o-rama. I've seen this issue discussed before, but never saw much of a consensus. Yes I want to keep the oldest lines open and of course allocate the limits to the new cards. But what about the other cards? For example say you have two cards with issuer X. The first card is old and you want to keep it the 2nd card is about 1 year old and the 0% intro rate is ended. Do you apply for a 3rd card, allocate as much of the credit limit from the 2nd card as you can to the 3rd card and close the second card?

Sure you could keep all three accounts open, but sooner or later you'll have too many cards with issuer X and you'll need to close some and/or it'll be too much of a hassle to keep up with so many open cards.

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Do we have any examples of College Students with limited income doing an App-o-Rama? I am very interested in trying, but I don't want mounds full of denial letters. My Average credit score is about 720-730, so I think I should be able to do well until I have to put in my yearly income. A good example would be great, so that I don't feel like I am entering uncharted waters. Thanks.

Adam

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Green for SIS!!!

How about changing your title "SIS comes back with the App-O-Rama FAQ - Link your AOR stories and post your successes" and include "official" after few days...

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Thanks for including a link to my crap-o-rama, I am honored. There might be good stuff in there for a noobie. I have found the MBNA billpay to be the perfect accessory for my AOR, I don't know where I'd be without it.

When I was doing it I found a million cards with 0% offers, but no easy way to determine which ones to apply for (i.e. would grant the highest limits right off.)

I have also found that you need to keep some 0% credit available to balance transfer to in case you cant pay the minimums. (I am using it to pay down my HELOC). Maybe the question would be, "What if I cant afford the minimum payments?"

Here's a potential question for your summary:

I want to do this every year, will I run out of 0% offers eventually?
I want to do this every year, will I run out of 0% offers?


THANKS!

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Amhenn said: Do we have any examples of College Students with limited income doing an App-o-Rama? I am very interested in trying, but I don't want mounds full of denial letters. My Average credit score is about 720-730, so I think I should be able to do well until I have to put in my yearly income. A good example would be great, so that I don't feel like I am entering uncharted waters. Thanks.

Adam


I had a 760 e-loan fako when I started. I'm still in college (grad student) and I have been doing AoR for about a year now. I don't post my experience on here because I don't do anything special. I tend to go for the low hanging fruit ($100 bonus + 0% APR for 12 months).

I make about $500 in sign up bonuses and $1,500 in interest. I don't want to turn this into an ethical debate...but for legal, mailing, tuition (out of state/in state), driver's license, voting, etc purposes my family's home is my address. Therefore I try to utilize "household" income applications which triples up the stated income.

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Great thread - i've been trying to gather all of the info on AORs bit by bit and it has been more difficult than i thought. having it all in one place is really helpful to us rookies who want to do it right the first time - especially with these great short term rates of 5-6%. i seriously doubt FW will cause the demise of these AORs - the CC companies must know this stuff goes on, but for every AOR there are a hundred people who get burned by the enticing 0%BT promos. When the banks lose money on the offers, they will stop the offers (or they will do low rate BT% offers to keep the spreads the same). green for you SIS!

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Thanks for the work, SIS.

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rab75 said: Great thread - i've been trying to gather all of the info on AORs bit by bit and it has been more difficult than i thought. having it all in one place is really helpful to us rookies who want to do it right the first time - especially with these great short term rates of 5-6%. i seriously doubt FW will cause the demise of these AORs - the CC companies must know this stuff goes on, but for every AOR there are a hundred people who get burned by the enticing 0%BT promos. When the banks lose money on the offers, they will stop the offers (or they will do low rate BT% offers to keep the spreads the same). green for you SIS!
If this thread becomes a "spoon-feeding-on-how-to-do-apporama" thread, there will soon be press articles pointing to it, followed by a flurry of app-o-ramas, which will eventually speed up the drought of good BT offers. At least before this thread, the information was spread around, so doing it the right way required some effort.
I just hope I'm wrong, but only time will tell...

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Great thread, thanks SIS.

I am not into RE, so if I do a App-O-Rama, how can I get the money out? Some cards do put the money into the card holder's bank account but not all of them. Maybe we should list such cards? I know Citibank, MBNA and Chase cards do it.

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I think at some point, there's got to be SOME creativity on the part of the person doing the App-O-Rama.

Think about it, and I'm sure you'll come up with plenty of solutions to getting funds out. Search around, there are already threads about this on FatWallet. Being into RE has nothing to do with being able to get funds out of a credit card.

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SweetCash said: rab75 said: Great thread - i've been trying to gather all of the info on AORs bit by bit and it has been more difficult than i thought. having it all in one place is really helpful to us rookies who want to do it right the first time - especially with these great short term rates of 5-6%. i seriously doubt FW will cause the demise of these AORs - the CC companies must know this stuff goes on, but for every AOR there are a hundred people who get burned by the enticing 0%BT promos. When the banks lose money on the offers, they will stop the offers (or they will do low rate BT% offers to keep the spreads the same). green for you SIS!
If this thread becomes a "spoon-feeding-on-how-to-do-apporama" thread, there will soon be press articles pointing to it, followed by a flurry of app-o-ramas, which will eventually speed up the drought of good BT offers. At least before this thread, the information was spread around, so doing it the right way required some effort.
I just hope I'm wrong, but only time will tell...


My sentiments as well. Before I did my app-o-rama, I read all the pertinent threads here at fwf and researched every possible resource and card before going forward. The fact that I jumped through those hoops made me better prepared and more aware of what could go wrong. I don't like newbies/rookies to get this info spoon-fed.

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SIS has to get some green, always a good asset to this forum. Thought we had lost you for good, nice to see you are still around.

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jairocon said: SweetCash said: rab75 said: Great thread - i've been trying to gather all of the info on AORs bit by bit and it has been more difficult than i thought. having it all in one place is really helpful to us rookies who want to do it right the first time - especially with these great short term rates of 5-6%. i seriously doubt FW will cause the demise of these AORs - the CC companies must know this stuff goes on, but for every AOR there are a hundred people who get burned by the enticing 0%BT promos. When the banks lose money on the offers, they will stop the offers (or they will do low rate BT% offers to keep the spreads the same). green for you SIS!
If this thread becomes a "spoon-feeding-on-how-to-do-apporama" thread, there will soon be press articles pointing to it, followed by a flurry of app-o-ramas, which will eventually speed up the drought of good BT offers. At least before this thread, the information was spread around, so doing it the right way required some effort.
I just hope I'm wrong, but only time will tell...


My sentiments as well. Before I did my app-o-rama, I read all the pertinent threads here at fwf and researched every possible resource and card before going forward. The fact that I jumped through those hoops made me better prepared and more aware of what could go wrong. I don't like newbies/rookies to get this info spoon-fed.


For the record - i have read at least 12 threads on AORs/ getting the money out/ etc (including jairocon's - which is certainly one of the best). i agree that the only way to do one of these is to do your homework, and then to try it yourself and learn as you go. nevertheless, i think this thread is trying to provide a valuable resource on this topic. the quick summary with links to other AORs is very useful, and helps to reduce forum clutter, but in the end, i don't see how it is possible to spoon feed an AOR in just one thread...

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jairocon said: SweetCash said: rab75 said: Great thread - i've been trying to gather all of the info on AORs bit by bit and it has been more difficult than i thought. having it all in one place is really helpful to us rookies who want to do it right the first time - especially with these great short term rates of 5-6%. i seriously doubt FW will cause the demise of these AORs - the CC companies must know this stuff goes on, but for every AOR there are a hundred people who get burned by the enticing 0%BT promos. When the banks lose money on the offers, they will stop the offers (or they will do low rate BT% offers to keep the spreads the same). green for you SIS!
If this thread becomes a "spoon-feeding-on-how-to-do-apporama" thread, there will soon be press articles pointing to it, followed by a flurry of app-o-ramas, which will eventually speed up the drought of good BT offers. At least before this thread, the information was spread around, so doing it the right way required some effort.
I just hope I'm wrong, but only time will tell...


My sentiments as well. Before I did my app-o-rama, I read all the pertinent threads here at fwf and researched every possible resource and card before going forward. The fact that I jumped through those hoops made me better prepared and more aware of what could go wrong. I don't like newbies/rookies to get this info spoon-fed.


If this is off-topic, SIS please let us know. (it seems like it might be). But I find this an strange sentiment: that we cant make the information too easy to find, we must scatter it all around almost like a treasure hunt. That makes mistakes more likely, not less IMHO. And I also dont think it will lead to many people doing AORs. There are already people giving seminars on AORs, so its not like a state secret.

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WELCOME BACKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!

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I don't know how to balance between being helpful and spoonfeeding. I think dYS has some helpful thoughts, I wonder if they will comment in this thread.

I have to say that it is incredibly frustrating that I've had people on here go from being completely opposed to BT investing (telling me I was lying and that all money would be a cash advance) to after I gave them all the links and told them a few very juicy deals with very easy transfer options they still nickled and dimed me with questions to the point where I think if I wouldn't have gotten rude they would have asked me to make the phone calls for them and open the accounts on their behalf.

That being said, I do agree with Cameron that for some reason AoR puts off a lot of people and I don't think too many people are going to swamp this (I hope I'm right, I would hate for this to end for the pioneers that figured it all out0.

I have introduced this to a few personal friends who I care enough about to tell them exactly what to do, how much I make, and how much time it takes. Even though the per hour rate is often 3~5 times what they make per hour at their job and the do really need money. This is seen as dorky, nerdy, greedy, and undesireable. Even if the general population did try this I think we are a self selected group of concientious people and so many people would screw it up royally tha the CC companies would probably make more money.

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cameron2003 said: There are already people giving seminars on AORs, so its not like a state secret.

Souce? Links? Just courious.

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I'd wager that enough people will crash and burn with haphazard and careless AOR's to continue to make the 0% BT game profitable for the banks, no matter how much information is posted here. Isn't that why they offered them in the first place?

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jairocon said: SweetCash said: rab75 said: Great thread - i've been trying to gather all of the info on AORs bit by bit and it has been more difficult than i thought. having it all in one place is really helpful to us rookies who want to do it right the first time - especially with these great short term rates of 5-6%. i seriously doubt FW will cause the demise of these AORs - the CC companies must know this stuff goes on, but for every AOR there are a hundred people who get burned by the enticing 0%BT promos. When the banks lose money on the offers, they will stop the offers (or they will do low rate BT% offers to keep the spreads the same). green for you SIS!
If this thread becomes a "spoon-feeding-on-how-to-do-apporama" thread, there will soon be press articles pointing to it, followed by a flurry of app-o-ramas, which will eventually speed up the drought of good BT offers. At least before this thread, the information was spread around, so doing it the right way required some effort.
I just hope I'm wrong, but only time will tell...


My sentiments as well. Before I did my app-o-rama, I read all the pertinent threads here at fwf and researched every possible resource and card before going forward. The fact that I jumped through those hoops made me better prepared and more aware of what could go wrong. I don't like newbies/rookies to get this info spoon-fed.


don't be such a crumudgen

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dcwilbur said: I'd wager that enough people will crash and burn with haphazard and careless AOR's to continue to make the 0% BT game profitable for the banks, no matter how much information is posted here. Isn't that why they offered them in the first place?
Indeed!

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mhesidence said: cameron2003 said: There are already people giving seminars on AORs, so its not like a state secret.

Souce? Links? Just courious.


www.balancetransfermagic.com

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cameron2003 said: mhesidence said: cameron2003 said: There are already people giving seminars on AORs, so its not like a state secret.

Souce? Links? Just courious.


www.balancetransfermagic.com


looks like the seminar targets people with too much debt and they need to get 0% to reduce their interest rates, they won't be making money on these BT's

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SweetCash said: rab75 said: Great thread - i've been trying to gather all of the info on AORs bit by bit and it has been more difficult than i thought. having it all in one place is really helpful to us rookies who want to do it right the first time - especially with these great short term rates of 5-6%. i seriously doubt FW will cause the demise of these AORs - the CC companies must know this stuff goes on, but for every AOR there are a hundred people who get burned by the enticing 0%BT promos. When the banks lose money on the offers, they will stop the offers (or they will do low rate BT% offers to keep the spreads the same). green for you SIS!
If this thread becomes a "spoon-feeding-on-how-to-do-apporama" thread, there will soon be press articles pointing to it, followed by a flurry of app-o-ramas, which will eventually speed up the drought of good BT offers. At least before this thread, the information was spread around, so doing it the right way required some effort.
I just hope I'm wrong, but only time will tell...

I agree with SweetCash here. A flurry of AORs, followed by a flurry of people messing it up. More $ for the card companies. AOR can go wildly wrong. I don't think it's for the newbie.

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Heyyyy, glad to see you "back."

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WELCOME BACK!!!We missed ya BIG TIME!!!

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dpid said: cameron2003 said: mhesidence said: cameron2003 said: There are already people giving seminars on AORs, so its not like a state secret.

Souce? Links? Just courious.


www.balancetransfermagic.com


looks like the seminar targets people with too much debt and they need to get 0% to reduce their interest rates, they won't be making money on these BT's


Whether you are making 5% or saving 8% on your HELOC (like I am) I dont see much difference.

Skipping 3254 Messages...
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imbatman said:   
ryeny3 said:   
rperez4 said:   I'am going for an AOR this week, my score is up to 760 after my last AOR and I'm going for 7 cards this time. This would be my first time asking Barclays and Capital One for a credit card. I'am still undecided if i should go for the Hyatt or the Sapphire Preferred on Chase.

Amex Starwood Preferred - 10,000 sgp
Barclay Arrival + - 40,000 points
BoA Spirit World MasterCard - 15,000 miles
Chase Sapphire(40,000 points) or Hyatt(2 free nights) undecided
US Bank Club Carlson - 85,000 points
Capital One Quicksilver - $100
Citi AAdvantage - 30,000 miles

Any ideas or suggestions?

Hyatt free nights expire in a year. Unless you are planning to stay at one of their more expensive hotels in the next year or so, I would wait on the Hyatt card. When I got the Hyatt card earlier this year, I was offered a $50 statement credit plus the two free nights when I made a reservation on Hyatt's site. 

A 10k spg offer exists? It's 25k on Amex an spg websites.
Also citi aadvantage - look for 40-50k offers I dunno but I assume they are around.   

  
Thanks for the suggestions, IE was showing only 10k sgp but on firefox and chrome i can see the 25k offer.
I found  50K AAdvantage offer from the AA website which would be better, https://www.aa.com/pubcontent/en_US/disclaimers/BP-PLATHV.jsp :c...

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