SUCKISSTAPLES said: TYTBUDGET said: I have a handful of very wealthy clients and they all bank at First Republic (CA Bay Area). I gather the service is without equal, although I couldn't attest to it personally.
Tytiethanks, im in the bay area too. do you know if they are using the private banking division
or just their regular 1st repub. accounts? since net worth is a key factor for private banking, what is the definition of "very wealthy" you are using- $2 million net worth, 5, 10, more?
I'll let you be the judge: They all (each) have at least one airplane; two maintain yachts (not necessarily docked at San Francisco, I know one is in Carmel); and they all have multiple pieces of residential and commercial real estate. These are group health insurance clients of mine and (no surprise) because they hang out with one another at their respective Yacht/Golf/Tennis etc. clubs, I am fortunate to have their referrals. You'd know one of them by name (no, I won't ).
As with most wealthy people, they consider it vulgar to discuss their wealth — and I don't pry, as they are not personal friends of mine. I'm not in their league, and about the only thing I can afford to do with them is meet them for cocktails at Liverpool Lil's (a favorite eating/drinking hole of mine, especially to keep The Quality well lubricated and even better fed at my expense, more's the pity lol) . . .
About the closest I can come to telling you of their relationship with FR is that they appear to have access to the bank at almost any hour of the day or night, and the staff at their beck and call.
I know the private bank at Citibank and Bank of AMerica is 3 Million and with citibank you get free outgoing wire transfers, but are there any banks that allow you to get into private bank for one million and under?
RagingBull said: I know the private bank at Citibank and Bank of AMerica is 3 Million and with citibank you get free outgoing wire transfers, but are there any banks that allow you to get into private bank for one million and under?
Citibank is $3mil investable dollars or $5mil with loans and BofA is $1mil investable cash or $5mil with loans.
Citibank tho gives you a lot more benfits over Bofa but Citibank has many levels inside the private bank where as BofA gives everyone in the private bank same benfits.
Big difference between both of them are as follow. Citibank $3-10mil benfits are as following:
Everything on bank side is free including wires/ach/cashier checks etc.
Will waive all credit annual fees except Chairmen card and Card Blance.
Includes Smith Barney FMA account which is much better than even the new Citiprivate sweep checking account as SB FMA account sweep pay higher interest rate. Down side to SB FMA account is all account are based out of NYC so if you dont live there you still need a normal Citiprivate checking account as many stores wont take out of state checks. So if you live outside of New York like myself you will need 2 checking accounts. Citibank does not charge anything on either account so it a mute issue anyways.
discounts on all type of loans except my mortage broker has always been able to beat rates on personal loans my experiance is they are only super aggressive on commerial real estate loans and even then sone times my mortage broker can beat them too.
discount on brokerage trades $9.99
Over $10mil added benfits included free chairman card and card blance stock trades as low as $7.99
BofA gives you the following in there private bank:
All banks side fee are waived including wires/ach and chashiers checks etc
discount on loans but again they dont have any of my personal loan bussiness as my mortage broker alway gotten me better loans.
They wont waive annual fees on any of there credit cards at all.
Now here is where BofA is better but unless you trade a lot of stocks this benfits is worthless they charge private bank customers $4.99 for stock trades.
There managed money account both charge the same fees.
RagingBull said: You sure BoFA is 1 million? I called and they said they needed $3 million in cash
I have been told many times by my banker at Bofa that either need to maintain $1MM between cash and brokerage account or $5MM with loans otherwise normally fees apply to my account. The limits I listed from Citibank are min to waive the fees.
premier bank according to BofA own web page states for banking realtions of $100K + or $500K with mortgage. Source
So not sure if maybe in states outside of Cali requirements are lower or what.
I have been with Citibank private banking for more than six years.
Here are some facts that may be helpful …
1. The private banking group is very good and very worthwhile. However, like everything in life it depends more on the individual banker you are assigned than the group as a whole.
The person handling my account now will bend over backwards on waiving fees, fighting for higher loan rates, and getting extras. The banker I had two-years ago was strictly by the book.
2. The “book” gets you a lot of fees waived (wiring money, credit card annual fee, travelers checks etc.) but the individual banker has a lot of discretion as to what fees can be waived. Currently I don’t pay for safe deposit banks, an occasional bounced check and once or twice a year a late fee on may credit card).
3. The individual banker can literally waive any bank charge of up to a hundred dollars but they also have wide latitude on amount of loans and rate charged. Something you would think is set at “headquarters” like bond interest rates can be negotiated. I routinely get an extra i/4 of a point on commercial paper and cd. I also got a bigger mortgage and a better rate than if I walked in off the street.
4. One big service to me is their ideas. He’s suggested some tax ideas that have been great. Of course, he also recommends load mutual funds that represent a profit center to the bank. But even there, he’s shown me ways to save half the load.
5. The biggest service, and huge time and hassle saver is to have a human being to talk to. I’ve been out of town and had checks crossing that he got okay and thereby saved me a great deal of trouble had I not had a person to talk to.
6. Most important to note is that actual amount actually required is at discretion of banker. When I first started at Citibank I didn’t have anywhere near a million in assets. But they saw I was “on the way up” and I had lot of rich friends that were a potential source of referrals.
With the number of hassles today that come with banking (press 1, press 3 etc) combined with banks banging you for fees at every turn ($29.00 late charge, $2.00 atm fee etc)--- if you can get private banking I would go for it.
Interestingly my banker at Citibank said that their studies show that less than 1% of people qualified for private banking take advantage of it! I recently referred a fellow Fatwallet-er that I met on this site and he said he estimates that it saved him over 500.00 in less than a year.
While I am not one of these customers myself, I have come across this link (Fidelity Private Access) many times when trying to find out how to get fee-free access to ATMs at Fidelity. Some other perks to this type of account are:
- dedicated account executives - special fee waivers - Fidelity Active Trader Pro - gold level commission pricing (flat $8 per trade)
Just thought some people may find this useful. While Fidelity isn't an actual bank but a brokerage house, I think some of the service may be valuable. After all, if you have $1 million in assets, I'm guessing most of these are in some sort of investment vehicle?
My situation hasn't changed much from the previous thread...our only active private banking relationship is with US Bank. My experiences aren't dissimilar from skypaul's, but it sounds like skypaul uses his relationship as his primary bank. I find that often, my best credit unions or other non-private relationships can yield a better deal.
For some "high-touch" special requests, though, it's very helpful.
SUCKISSTAPLES said: dave, has US bank required you to keep a minimum level of assets on deposit with them?Nope. We've actually been quite poor clients, keeping very little with them, even as they've been good to us (waiving fees, etc.). But we like our "private client group" team, and they seem to like us. I think the lead writes it off as "clients with eventual/referral potential."
This isn't too far off on their part. Even though I generally talk up more low-cost, highly efficient and streamlined solutions to all associates (including the wealthy ones), I think it's a very pleasent and classy private banking group team. So, if that's the kind of thing someone in my town might be looking for, I'd certainly send them their way.
I use Citibank private bank for my main checking and the only main advantage that I've found is waiving of the wire xfers fees and the Citi AA freq flyer credit card fee. The personal banker system actually sucks: the personal banker person seems to change every year; when you call that person is never available and other people just want to put you into your absentee banker's voicemail rather than deal with your issue themselves they seem to enjoy saying "oh you have to talk to your personal private banker for that, let me connect you . . . " and then you just get their voice mail.
I tried their brokerage, but Ameritrade had better terms. Adding the Citi e-savings account to the private bank account was a big hassle, but it is a nice rate (but not unique to private banking).
I did a six month ARM mortgage through the Citi private bank mortgage when I had to close on a house fast and Penfed was too slow and Citi private bank came through on that with a great 6 mo. ARM (the interest rate was super low -- but of course after 6 mos it went up to something crazy, but I only used the Citi loan until penfed finally got organized, as penfed had a much better 5/1 ARM than Citi private could get me.
Citi private could be a lot better. In some ways it is worse than a regular account when you have to wait to talk to "your personal banker" for some issues that could normally be dealt with by any old CSR.
zmre2b9 writes : >>>The personal banker system actually sucks: the personal >>>banker person seems to change every year;
As I said its more each individual account person rather than the system.
---------------- mshen11 writes: >>>which is better... 1. being in private banking and having a few >>>quarter points higher from the posted 'low' interest rate... of >>>say bofa or...2. money spread out various higher yielding account.
I think I’m getting the best rate available anywhere. In fact I hardly keep any cash in my Citibank checking account. Instead I keep my money in short term paper (7 day AAA commercial paper) that I buy from private banking or in my Citibank e-account (available to anyone and paying top dollar) and journal money to checking as needed.
skypaul said: zmre2b9 writes : I think I’m getting the best rate available anywhere. In fact I hardly keep any cash in my Citibank checking account. Instead I keep my money in short term paper (7 day AAA commercial paper) that I buy from private banking or in my Citibank e-account (available to anyone and paying top dollar) and journal money to checking as needed.
LOL Skypaul I Do same thing you do. I keep most of my money in 7 day AAA commericial or muni VRDN that private bank has access too with no fee what so ever and Citibank or SB holds the demand insurance on so i can sell it and get paid same day if I want too. I dont buy any paper that Citi or SB does not hold demand insurance on as there is 5 day seatlement on them.
I also use my FMA account over my Citigold Private checking account as FMA sweep pays higher yeild over normal checking account or even the e-savings account. You might want to ask your banker about it. Currently the SB T-note reserve pays 4.74% and it is state income tax exempt also for exmaple in cali there muni fund pays 3.27% so for my tax rate still better than e-savings account. I dont need to need worry about sweeping funds in and out at all.
I agree 100% with your statement that the banker makes all the difference when i opened my account years ago at BofA i was very happy lately I only keep the account at BofA cause I have large loan with them. Otherwise I would close the account. Last summer having that account came in very handy when Citibank had a shortage on VRDN as large number of there got called but was able to get some from BofA. I have had 2 bankers with Citibank first one just wanted to pitch me loaded mutual funds and complains he makes no commision off me because i was not buying any managed money services or taking higher rate loans from him that my mortage broker could get so i complained to his boss about it.. got switched to differnt person who is still worthless but atleast does not pitch me any junk or complain to me.
1. being in private banking and having a few quarter points higher from the posted 'low' interest rate... of say bofa
2. money spread out various higher yielding account.
i know its all about the relationship... waiving of fees, lower loan rate - come on, even w/ 1/4% off loans at a bofa, im sure you can find better rates elsewhere.
I would go with #2, Not sure those "higher" rates with the likes of CITI or BOFA just to get things like free wires would be worth it. Doubt the little things they get would mean much to a Multi-Millionaire anyway. Then again they are not FW types and probably not chasing rates and want that relationship for other reasons
Another thought on this subject is would you prefer to be a little fish in a large pond or a large fish in a little pond? If you just make the minimum requirement at say CITI or BOFA your still small potatoes to them. Put a couple hundred thousand in a small local bank and you could end up with better perks. Even using this with larger banks can work. Many large banks including one I use, Citizens, try to give you that smaller bank feeling by giving branch managers a good amount of leeway including waiving fees and getting better than listed rates.
RagingBull said: You sure BoFA is 1 million? I called and they said they needed $3 million in cashNoooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! Never call!!!!!!!
Wait, wrong forum...
Thanks for bringing a topic back to life that I might've not looked at soon enough otherwise (oh, and welcome back, OP)! Near private banking, I can appreciate. Private banking... well, let's just say I might have to wait for the kids to grow up (say, 16-18 years away).
Those who want to take advantage of the numerous services offered by private banking (some of the services are terrific; some are quite useless) but do not meet the investable cash threshold should explore their specific industries to see if they can get in that way. For instance, those of us working for large firms typically have private banking officers at various bank clients of the firm constantly contacting us in an effort to sign us up with their private bank. Private banking officers also almost always attend lawyer-banker happy hours and networking events in an effort to get to know associates and partners alike and to convince them to go with their particular private bank.
The officers always explain that they really could not care less about our particular resources at the moment but that, because of the caliber of the firm we're with, the bank realizes our potential and wants to create strong contacts with us early on (if you ask me, it's a very nice marketing line). The private banking services offered at various banks can actually be quite worthwhile and even unusual. For instance, many private banks offer automatic sweeps of our accounts into reduced/no minimum muni's (otherwise, those muni's often require $250K minimum investments), very attractive and sophisticated currency conversion services and sweeps for accounts in different currencies, deeply discounted insurance services, etc... One of the private banking officers I've been dealing with has even told me about an arrangement with a terrific local jeweler who offers deep discounts to the bank's private banking customers (the discount was real and quite attractive, although I still got a better deal on the engagement ring by doing my own extensive research and negotiating with a different jeweler).
P.S. By the way, you don't have to work for a large law firm to take advantage of this. For instance, some of my doctor friends (even those who are just finishing up their residencies) get the same phone calls. My guess is that private banks call and schedule meetings with most people working in "lucrative" industries.
geo123, in your experience, do private banks really give law-firm associates the full deal?
I'm at a very large firm, and the only private bank offer we get is from Citigroup. (At least, among the calls I still take. The last times I listened to Morgan Stanley, all they were pitching was advice in picking mutual funds.) I've been tempted at times, but I've always suspected that it would just be a junior version of the experience -- that the bankers I would deal with, and the deals I would get, would just be what Citi wants to offer for insignificant asset bases like mine. Combined with direct-deposit and minimum-balance requirements to avoid fees, a somewhat hasslesome sign-up process (I think I would need a letter from my employer), and not really seeing anything on the menu that was better than what I can get from online banks, I have held out so far.
I suspect that Citigroup, among others, offers this not so much because they think us associates will grow up to be great customers of the private bank, but because they want to provide services to the law firms themselves and want to build a relationship that way. That suggests that people in other professions, with similar incomes, might find it harder to get in the door.
I don't have private banking privileges, but I do qualify for Vanguard's Flagship which amongst other perks, includes waiver of fees for IRAs, index funds etc. that don't meet the minimum balance for no fees. while my accounts (and probably most Flagship clients') are above those minimum balances, others in my household (kids) are not, so it benefits them. I also get free membership in their brokerage Advantage program which gives me 12 free stock trades/year, and iirc, $8/trade after that, and free checking with no minimum from any of Vanguard's money market funds (so high interest checking account). also on my desk is an offer for Flagship clients to receive a Vanguard Financial Plan for free, which normally costs $1000 (that I may or may not take up.)
As far as banking, despite not being in a privileged category, I've developed good relationships with my local Wamu branch manager (but it does help to have substantial deposits/accounts with them) and some of his staff. so they will waive fees that i've had such as an incoming wire transfer, overdraft fees, low balance fees, and even give me when they can, a better rate on CDs than advertised, without my asking. i suggest any FWer should also become friendly with their local bank.
RagingBull said: I know the private bank at Citibank and Bank of AMerica is 3 Million and with citibank you get free outgoing wire transfers, but are there any banks that allow you to get into private bank for one million and under?
Wells Fargo Private Client Services has 1 million as a starting point. To qualify for Private Banking only, it's $500,000+ investable assets or 250K annual income. Wells Fargo WF seems to offer not just banking but also investment, trust, and estate which also includes business valuation and advisory services. I don't know if there are financial institutions that offer better services and deals in one area vs. others that are under the 'private client services' umbrella but it would be helpful to know best of breed...just a thought. I'm exploring estate and tax planning services, will see how it goes.
I believe (drawing from the depths of my brain here) that Regions' private banking is 500K in nonretirement assets and it is not a hard and fast rule. I know they actively try to recruit young doctors and attorneys.
LH2004 said: geo123, in your experience, do private banks really give law-firm associates the full deal?My understanding is that Citi actually has two divisions under its private banking umbrella: the High Net Worth Group and the Law Firm Group. The latter has made an enormous push through the years to get associates and partners at large law firms and, according to a couple of articles I've read in the past, is the largest private banking law firm group in the country. I don't know whether Citi really does offer only a portion of its private banking services to associates but when I've looked at their service offerings in the past, I also did not find anything spectacular there and, just like you said, the sign-up process wasn't all that easy.
At my previous firm, practically all the partners in my group were with the same officer at the same private bank and were extremely pleased with the service and the results. When I met with him, though, I definitely got the distinct impression that he was a lot more interested in dealing with partners than with associates, so that was the end of the meeting.
At my current firm, a couple of very large banks that the firm has been representing for about 125 years definitely do offer a full range of services to associates without any cumbersome sign-up processes (some have dedicated staff that even fills out the paperwork for you) and without any direct deposit requirements, etc... I really don't know whether these offers can be attributed to a particularly close relationship the firm has had with those banks through the years or to those banks just being especially flexible with their private banking offers.
it looks like US Bank is finally going to open a PB office in SF (they are hiring associates on craigslist) so I may see what they have to offer... I really wanted UBOC PB as PB clients get 0.5% off their loans (and it can be applied to my current loan) but I guess I didnt say the "magic words" in my application (9 figure sphere of influence, etc) Maybe I should have mentioned that my glowing reviews at FW could bring them lots of business
SUCKISSTAPLES said: Maybe I should have mentioned that my glowing reviews at FW could bring them lots of business Wouldn't that be selling out? Also not sure if the FW crowd is a "prized target" of banks.
ok here's the skinny on our personal banking. [note: I'm using EXTREMELY conservative figures]
client: small-medium construction company [of which I am a stakeholder] assets: $3,000,000-$4,000,000 in assets [real property, trust deeds, et al.] accounts: $500,000-$800,000 fluctuating in money market [sometimes invested short-term in commerical paper], $90,000-$120,000 in "job" construction accounts credit: $200,000 unsecured line of credit [unused] history: 10 years with Union Bank, 4 years with Private Banking perks: will cash us out of short-term paper if we need the capital on short notice, will print out the 35 cashier's checks we need in specific denominations for bidding properties at trustee sales
if you-know-who wants a referral, I can give you our PB's contact information, but this is for downtown Los Angeles. too all those who negged my original reply... maybe next time I go down, I can take pictures of the SECRET ENTRANCE [seriously] which will most likely be the only opportunity you'll ever have to actually see what the PB setup looks like. and yes, the service is five-star and highly personalized.
I just closed a mortgage with Wells Fargo Private Bank. I felt the rate was higher than the advertised rates of JPMorgan private bank, but my private mortgage banker at Wells indicated JPM is notorious for bait-and-switch rates (or for posting rates for 40% down payment, etc...). I went with Wells because my primary business relationship is with them and it was just easier. Same underwriting process as non-private banking, but they keep all private mortgages in their portfolio instead of selling them. This is theoretically better for flexibility in the relationship in the future.
No experience with Citi Private mortgage this go around, but I did talk to them in 2013 about a re-fi. They offer .125 to .25 rate discounts for overall relationship. I believe you have to be over the $1MM in investable assets with them to get any relationship discount.
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