I searched, but didn't see any reference to the subject of 'renting out' your credit history. This guy's blogtalks about it. Anybody here done it or even heard about it before?
kenblakely said: I searched, but didn't see any reference to the subject of 'renting out' your credit history. This guy's blogtalks about it. Anybody here done it or even heard about it before?
JohnGalt69 said: My TU FICO rose steadily over the year after my AOR from ~665 to around 728, with variance resulting mainly from balances. But then at the one year mark I saw a 50-point pop. That seems to be a strong indicator that the one-year mark is a critical threshold. How many TU inquiries? (I tend to think inquiries aren't as big of a deal as some worry about, but I'm always happy to see evidence to the contrary.)
thinwalletfatdreams said: TheWalL said: Dave...I know that...but there is absolutely nothing that changed on my reports other than what I mentioned earlier.
I'm starting to think a card with 10k+ CL works for better scores.
I've played around some with the scenario simulator on myFICO and it seems to confirm this.
If this is true, this raises an interesting question. I did a mini AOR and reallocation, so that I have several cards with CL's ranging from $20,000 to $40,000, but I also have a Citicard at $1000 CL (a new card), a Universal AT &T card now at $1000 CL (I've probably had that 15 years). My TrueCredit FAKO scores range mid to high 700's.
I'm know it goes against good advice to cancel credit cards, but I'm wondering if, scores might actually go up if new CC's with low credit lines are cancelled rather than kept.
cardjuggler said: JohnGalt69 said: My TU FICO rose steadily over the year after my AOR from ~665 to around 728, with variance resulting mainly from balances. But then at the one year mark I saw a 50-point pop. That seems to be a strong indicator that the one-year mark is a critical threshold. How many TU inquiries? (I tend to think inquiries aren't as big of a deal as some worry about, but I'm always happy to see evidence to the contrary.)
After the applications I had two. In March I bumped both of them off. I'm sure that had little or no effect.
4 years ago i pulled obtained my FICO and it was 720. I just pulled my FICO the other day and I've jumped to 795! I put some charges on my oldest CC that I no longer used since the bureaus showed no activity on that card. Maybe that will bump me to 800+. I have 3 hard inquiries on my reports and low balance to high credit availablilty.
General question: do you actually have to use your open lines of credit (charge each open credit card each month) to have them count in your credit score, or is it sufficient to just have them , and not use them
Sorry if this has been answered, I could not find it
moxe22 said: I also have a Citicard at $1000 CL (a new card), a Universal AT &T card now at $1000 CL (I've probably had that 15 years). I'm wondering if, scores might actually go up if new CC's with low credit lines are cancelled rather than kept.
Interesting...here is what you would have to do to find out....sign up for myFICO scorewatch and get your current scores...and call citi to see if you can re-open closed accounts within X amount of days. If you can re-open, gamble on closing the new line after moving all of the CL into the old card. Essentially this would reduce your total open lines and increase avg age. So your score should go up. Verify that on scorewatch. Now go back and re-open the citicard. Scores should go down. By how much we'll know then.
...and while you are at it, see if you can get a CLI online without a pull.
georgepds said: General question: do you actually have to use your open lines of credit (charge each open credit card each month) to have them count in your credit score, or is it sufficient to just have them , and not use them
Sorry if this has been answered, I could not find it
--G Using it is completely optional! Just need to have them open. I have several cards that I've not used in years.
georgepds said: General question: do you actually have to use your open lines of credit (charge each open credit card each month) to have them count in your credit score, or is it sufficient to just have them , and not use them
Sorry if this has been answered, I could not find it
--G
I believe that if you don't use your cards for 6 months, then FICO takes it out of the utilization calculations, but still counts the age. So, it's a good idea to use them a few times a year to get a balance showing and then PIF. FICO is meant to calculate how you use your credit, if you just let it sit there it will help but not as much as if you use it occasionally.
Nummerkins said: I believe that if you don't use your cards for 6 months, then FICO takes it out of the utilization calculations, but still counts the age. So, it's a good idea to use them a few times a year to get a balance showing and then PIF. FICO is meant to calculate how you use your credit, if you just let it sit there it will help but not as much as if you use it occasionally. is there some conclusive evidence on that?
Something that my husband and I did in the last 12 months has "immunized" our credit scores.
Before that action (speculation on possibilities to follow) despite, thick, excellent histories we had to work very hard to keep our scores above 760-- our best tactic was to pay off our credit cards prior to the cycle closing so that we always had little debt.
I suspect that 1 (or all 3) of these changes were the "magic amulet" :
1) We refi'd our primary residence to a 15 year fixed (I have a feeling the algorithm likes that) 2) We took out a big HELOC on our primary residence (that we don't use) 3) We pay more than the minimum balance on both mortgages that report on our personal credit reports
Suddenly-- it's like credit Viagra. We can close the month with a high balance on our AMEX cards and "nada" our score doesn't move down a point.
I've been obsessed for years with the subject of this thread- especially the Keeping part- and it's always frustrated me that the tiniest "adverse" action (a new inquiry, a higher cc balance) would take my score down in a blink.
Thanks again DH for encouraging us to apply for and get that HELOC-- bc I suspect that it plays a major role.
TheWalL said: DaveHanson said: georgepds, it is sufficient to have them, and not use them.
The problem is that if they go unused long enough, the issuers may close them for you, so a periodic small charge is advisable.
Dave...Any notable list for such actions?
It's been a long time since I let accounts go "inactive" but when I was younger I had Department Store cards and after years of not using them they definitely went inactive and fell off my report. I'm paranoid (and perhaps a bit sentimental) about my Sears card, since it was the very first card I ever got. I make sure to charge at least one item on it every year. I actually do this with other cards I no longer use, bc there is no reason to lose the long history.
imagination said: chocula said: Would it be better if I had about $300 on each card in stead of $3k on just 3 cards? If "better" means a higher FICO, then yes, your FICO would improve if you had only $300 on each of those cards. Having one card almost maxed out will lower your FICO compared to if you had the same amount of cc debt, but had a lower utilization percentage on each of your cards.
I pulled this info off of TU Canada.......finally some definitive info on improving your credit from the horse's mouth"
from Transunion.ca; "Payment history - A good record of on-time payments will help boost your credit score. Outstanding debt - Balances above 50 percent of your credit limits will harm your credit. Aim for balances under 30 percent. Credit account history - An established credit history makes you a less risky borrower. Think twice before closing old accounts before a loan application. Recent inquiries - When a lender or business checks your credit, it causes a hard inquiry to your credit file. Apply for new credit in moderation. Types of credit - A healthy credit profile has a balanced mix of credit accounts and loans"
AND:
" Worried if your credit score makes the grade? If your credit score is above 650 you will probably qualify for a standard loan. Under 650, you may have trouble receiving new credit.
If your credit score is a little low, pay your bills on time, reduce your debt, remove inaccuracies and avoid new inquiries for a few months to give it a boost. Plus, don't forget that your credit score is not the only factor a lender may look at when they are evaluating your financial standing."
TheWalL said: moxe22 said: I also have a Citicard at $1000 CL (a new card), a Universal AT &T card now at $1000 CL (I've probably had that 15 years). I'm wondering if, scores might actually go up if new CC's with low credit lines are cancelled rather than kept.
Interesting...here is what you would have to do to find out....sign up for myFICO scorewatch and get your current scores...and call citi to see if you can re-open closed accounts within X amount of days. If you can re-open, gamble on closing the new line after moving all of the CL into the old card. Essentially this would reduce your total open lines and increase avg age. So your score should go up. Verify that on scorewatch. Now go back and re-open the citicard. Scores should go down. By how much we'll know then.
...and while you are at it, see if you can get a CLI online without a pull.
Well... that would be a nice experiment --- but I'm not risking my credit scores just to find out. Since I only did the mini AOR in Jan. I thought it'd be prudent to wait at least 6 months before I go for CLI increases.
But I do think this question is important and can help other people.
What about Credit Cards that don't report your credit Limit. Example CitiBank Credit Card Called Citi PremierPass® Card a no-limit credit card,
My husband has this card. We have a spending Limit of 6000 but can go above that without a problem which mas it a no-limit credit card but we have a balance of 2,869.
My question is How do credit agencies such as experian Equifax and transunion rate your score with this card. Do they use your balance as your limit?
The CRA's do not rate your credit. The good people at Fair, Isaac do that with a proprietary algorithm which the CRA's rent. The people at Fair, Isaac have been around the block a couple of times, and I think it's sheer idiocy to believe that they don't have some way to adjust for cards such as the PremierPass. IMO it is flawed logic to think that since hold an account with a reported limit while carrying a balance at or near that limit causes your score to decline that a card that reports a 0 credit limit will do the same with any balance. Of course I could be wrong, and it's the people at Fair, Isaac that are idiots and consider those who qualify for the AMEX Centurion and other lesser charge cards to be poorer risks because they carry that card and don't zero it before it reports. But I find that thought really, really farfetched.
If a card doesn't report the credit limit, then it generally reports the "high balance". This is usually the highest balance ever on the card. This can work as a proxy for credit limit.
Charge cards like AMEX are reported in a fundamentally different way from lines of credit. Anyone pulling the report can tell it's an "open account" (i.e. charge card). A high balance is reported in lieu of a mushily-defined credit limit.
Now, there are probably a couple of truly defective cards out there which either don't report high balance, or resize it monthly. I don't know what those cards are, but they'd be my nemesis.
Personally, I used it to advantage. I maxed out a no-CL-reporting card, then I reallocated it to another card with the same bank. Now everyone thinks the CL is higher than it really is!
This could be off-topic, and if so, forgive me....
Does anyone here have a good relationship with Yodlee? I know Peter (part-time FW'er, involved with yodlee development), but only in an "internet passing" type way.
The reason I ask is ... has anyone asked (or thought of asking) to have TrueCredit, scorewatch, or "insert name of 'bumpage' tool here" added to yodlee... thus automating bumpage, AND keeping a record (in yodlee) of progress??? If yodlee could add something like that, then I would finally think that paying for such a service would be worth the minimal (or significant) costs.
I have thought of doing the bumpage, but don't really have that many inquiries I need to move off my CR... but if yodlee could do it for me, then I COULD go after some of the more lucrative offers that I have passed up, because I didn't want a hard inq.
Any thoughts, comments, sarcasm, or tomato throwing about this???
Technologist, while that may not be feasible, it would be a great idea. It is OT here--perhaps it would fit better in the yodlee thread...?
The impact and effect of cards that report "high balance" has been pretty clear in the past...just substitute "high balance" for "limit" in the score algorithm.
But for cards that report neither, the role they play is less clear. Detailed data points addressing this issue would be welcome here.
A subscription service that not only allows you to pull CRs, but does it on an automated schedule. It's like automated credit repair. I'd pay for that. Why hasn't someone thought of that before?
markkundinger said: If a card doesn't report the credit limit, then it generally reports the "high balance". This is usually the highest balance ever on the card. This can work as a proxy for credit limit.
Charge cards like AMEX are reported in a fundamentally different way from lines of credit. Anyone pulling the report can tell it's an "open account" (i.e. charge card). A high balance is reported in lieu of a mushily-defined credit limit.
Now, there are probably a couple of truly defective cards out there which either don't report high balance, or resize it monthly. I don't know what those cards are, but they'd be my nemesis.
Personally, I used it to advantage. I maxed out a no-CL-reporting card, then I reallocated it to another card with the same bank. Now everyone thinks the CL is higher than it really is!
Does it have to be reallocated to another card from the same bank or can it be a card from another bank card? I am not sure if this lowered my husbands credit because he really wasn't keeping track of it but I found this article of this story from credit card being from CitiBank.
Also my husband spoke to a representative of citibank which were very rude about this issue. Seems like they have been getting a lot of calls. They said that they report the information to the credit agencies and that they code it as they want. Since we argued that Equifax reported has our credit limit as zero and Citicard argues that they just told the agencies that we don't have one.
I love this card because of all the perks but if it starts to lower the credit score I might have to consider changing or see what Citibank can do for me.
Would I have to close this account? or can you just transfer to a different type of card with that same bank?
markkundinger said: If a card doesn't report the credit limit, then it generally reports the "high balance". This is usually the highest balance ever on the card. This can work as a proxy for credit limit.
Personally, I used it to advantage. I maxed out a no-CL-reporting card, then I reallocated it to another card with the same bank. Now everyone thinks the CL is higher than it really is!
Ditto that, I do the same. Have 2 BofA Visa Sig cards with an actual combined limit of $45k. With some BTs and credit line transfers between the 2 cards, my reported "high balance" on the 2 cards combined is about $65k. Once I pay my BTs off and get an offer on the other card, I plan on getting that up to $80k+.
I say if the cc issuers want to play this game, work it to your advantage.
dandrade said: Does it have to be reallocated to another card from the same bank or can it be a card from another bank card? The credit line has to be reallocated to another card from Citibank. Can't reallocate to a different bank.
Would I have to close this account? or can you just transfer to a different type of card with that same bank? Yes, you can request to convert this card into a different Citibank card.
I have a couple of cards that I PIF every month and about a half a dozen others that I use only for one purchase about every three months to hopefully keep the cc company happy again PIF every month.
From a FICO standpoint should I make the payment before the closing date so that the cards will show a zero balance?
Thanks so much for your good advice on this board.
Most likely that one purchase every 3 months is not a significant $ figure, thus I wouldn't think it would matter that much. This assumes that your credit limit on these cards is greater than $50. Most discussions indicate that card usage is not required for FICO, but individual creditors may close/reduce inactive accounts.
doniam said: From a FICO standpoint should I make the payment before the closing date so that the cards will show a zero balance?Yes, especially if you have several cards.
Having several cards with an active balance at all (any size) is a negative factor within several different scoring models.
Technologist said: This could be off-topic, and if so, forgive me....
Does anyone here have a good relationship with Yodlee? I know Peter (part-time FW'er, involved with yodlee development), but only in an "internet passing" type way.
The reason I ask is ... has anyone asked (or thought of asking) to have TrueCredit, scorewatch, or "insert name of 'bumpage' tool here" added to yodlee... thus automating bumpage, AND keeping a record (in yodlee) of progress??? If yodlee could add something like that, then I would finally think that paying for such a service would be worth the minimal (or significant) costs.
I have thought of doing the bumpage, but don't really have that many inquiries I need to move off my CR... but if yodlee could do it for me, then I COULD go after some of the more lucrative offers that I have passed up, because I didn't want a hard inq.
Any thoughts, comments, sarcasm, or tomato throwing about this???
I actually just made that exact request on the yodlee forum.
LaJollaInvestor said: 1) We refi'd our primary residence to a 15 year fixed (I have a feeling the algorithm likes that) 2) We took out a big HELOC on our primary residence (that we don't use) 3) We pay more than the minimum balance on both mortgages that report on our personal credit reports I'm a few days late, but: how old are your credit histories? Did anything else change after 1 year, e.g. several cards crossed a mark? (e.g. I seem to have gotten a boost when several cards became 2 years old).
Also: here's a great test if you don't mind: start paying the min on your mortgages. Does your score drop? (I bet it doesn't, but am open to evidence.)
cardjuggler said: LaJollaInvestor said: 1) We refi'd our primary residence to a 15 year fixed (I have a feeling the algorithm likes that) 2) We took out a big HELOC on our primary residence (that we don't use) 3) We pay more than the minimum balance on both mortgages that report on our personal credit reports I'm a few days late, but: how old are your credit histories? Did anything else change after 1 year, e.g. several cards crossed a mark? (e.g. I seem to have gotten a boost when several cards became 2 years old).
Also: here's a great test if you don't mind: start paying the min on your mortgages. Does your score drop? (I bet it doesn't, but am open to evidence.)
Such funny timing on your question, because this morning I think I got definitive proof (to me at least) that a steady declining balance on your mortgage boosts your score. I run a ton of credit reports in my biz (real estate) This morning I ran a credit report (for a tenant cosign) on a Federal Judge with perfect flawless credit-- a long history and no credit card debt. He also has a over 1 million dollar interest-only mortgage that he took out in 2006. His (actual FICO) score was only 741. There is no way it shouldn't have been higher-- but I can see from his payment- initial balance- and current balance on his mortgage (his only debt) that he isn't taking it down and it's depressing his score. I bet if he even paid $100 extra a month his score would shoot up.
This tip is for newbies only-- it's on Bankrate today and I don't think I've seen it on this thread:
Loan yourself money. Open a savings account and take out a personal loan with the savings as collateral. As with a secured credit card, the loan is low-risk for the lender, with the added bonus that a personal loan is an installment loan (regular monthly payment) giving you more than one type of credit account.
I actually did that in my 20s when I was beginning to build my credit and had forgotten all about it. It worked great.
dandrade said: markkundinger said: If a card doesn't report the credit limit, then it generally reports the "high balance". This is usually the highest balance ever on the card. This can work as a proxy for credit limit.
Charge cards like AMEX are reported in a fundamentally different way from lines of credit. Anyone pulling the report can tell it's an "open account" (i.e. charge card). A high balance is reported in lieu of a mushily-defined credit limit.
Now, there are probably a couple of truly defective cards out there which either don't report high balance, or resize it monthly. I don't know what those cards are, but they'd be my nemesis.
Personally, I used it to advantage. I maxed out a no-CL-reporting card, then I reallocated it to another card with the same bank. Now everyone thinks the CL is higher than it really is!
Does it have to be reallocated to another card from the same bank or can it be a card from another bank card? I am not sure if this lowered my husbands credit because he really wasn't keeping track of it but I found this article of this story from credit card being from CitiBank.
Also my husband spoke to a representative of citibank which were very rude about this issue. Seems like they have been getting a lot of calls. They said that they report the information to the credit agencies and that they code it as they want. Since we argued that Equifax reported has our credit limit as zero and Citicard argues that they just told the agencies that we don't have one.
I love this card because of all the perks but if it starts to lower the credit score I might have to consider changing or see what Citibank can do for me.
Would I have to close this account? or can you just transfer to a different type of card with that same bank?
Citibank lost a ton of business with us because of the way they reported our AAdvantage cards. We used the card at places that wouldn't take AMEX. But it was such a pain to pay off the balance each month before it closed. Now we've switched to the BofA Hawaiian card as our 2nd backup.
TheWalL said: A data point to consider: Card A: CL - 14k; Util - <1% : Previous report Card A: CL - 07k; Util - 12% : Latest report
I relocated some CL from one card to another another and the card whose CL went down reported first...My FICO took a whooping 20+ point beating due to that one change. This is the regularly used card so everything is PIF when due. So is there a reason for that 20 point crash? I thought 20 points hit happens due to a 30-day late or something that significant...not for this
Along the same lines, the card that took this 7k limit (this CLI isnt reported yet) should bring the score back up 20+ points. Will it?
To answer this for those curious...the card to which I reallocated reported...and FICO shot up instantly by 30+ points. It actually went past the previous month's score by 5 points. Though that +5 might be a regular bump up due to aging of lines, paydown of installment loans etc. I definitely gained back the points lost due to reallocation.
A friend of mine who is a mortgage broker told me about rapid rescore, which he uses to get clients scores up over some threshold within 72 hours so he can close a deal. the only site I found was www.rapidrescore.org Apparently the service (which costs him about $30 per CRA) will accurately identify what lines have to be paid down to what level to get a certain score, then they get the CRA's to update within 72hrs after the payments are made by the individual. Has anyone used, or even heard of, this service before? Kind of spendy, but if it saves a month of waiting for new 0%BTs it might be worth it. His experience has been that bringing utilization down below 30% on each CL gave the biggest bump in scores.
devildoc said: His experience has been that bringing utilization down below 30% on each CL gave the biggest bump in scores.I would love to see some fresh, RELIABLE data on utilization breakpoint levels. The basis for the 50% key figure I have is a couple years old now, and it's certainly possible that this has evolved, or even that breakpoints no longer have the significance they once did (i.e., that the measures are linear, not threshold.)
That's what's tough about CRAs playing all these inputs so close to the vest.
DaveHanson said: devildoc said: His experience has been that bringing utilization down below 30% on each CL gave the biggest bump in scores.I would love to see some fresh, RELIABLE data on utilization breakpoint levels. The basis for the 50% key figure I have is a couple years old now, and it's certainly possible that this has evolved, or even that breakpoints no longer have the significance they once did (i.e., that the measures are linear, not threshold.) my friend did say 50% is still a significant cutoff, but that 30% made a proportionally bigger difference in scores. It sounded like there are still thresholds, not linear relationships.
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