devildoc, it sounds like your friend's evidence is just anecdotal...but if not, I'd love to hear more about the source and/or data set s/he's drawing from...
LaJollaInvestor said: because this morning I think I got definitive proof (to me at least) Er, beware of "confirmation bias".
He also has a over 1 million dollar interest-only mortgage But that's a fairly exceptional case (at least outside of CA). The harder question: a few years into a non-interest-only, non-jumbo mortgage, does paying MORE than the min improve score (by more than say 5 points)? I'm still skeptical. Perhaps the improvement came when you hit the 90% (or some other) threshold, and you could have gotten the same with a lump sum, and you won't continue to get any benefit. Or, perhaps the score increase had nothing to do with the mortgage.
I had a question and if it has already been answered, then I must have missed it.
OP suggested PrivacyGuard or TrueCredit as options for credit reporting, however both of these companies seem high in their yearly pricing. Are there other options that are less than $100 for a year?
This to me seems ridiculously high, and I had a very good credit score but I would like to keep an eye on it. Is this typical pricing or are there promos that I have not found?
It seems to me that if you are about to pay off your car loan or other installment loan, it may be better to keep it open with a very small balance. Obsolete paid-off loans which fall off the credit report after a few years seem to decrease the credit score slightly.
cardjuggler said: LaJollaInvestor said: because this morning I think I got definitive proof (to me at least) Er, beware of "confirmation bias".
He also has a over 1 million dollar interest-only mortgage But that's a fairly exceptional case (at least outside of CA). The harder question: a few years into a non-interest-only, non-jumbo mortgage, does paying MORE than the min improve score (by more than say 5 points)? I'm still skeptical. Perhaps the improvement came when you hit the 90% (or some other) threshold, and you could have gotten the same with a lump sum, and you won't continue to get any benefit. Or, perhaps the score increase had nothing to do with the mortgage.
You're right CJ (about confirmation bias)-- however one of the reasons I'm interested in this is that I view so many credit reports every year (over 800)
It's a fascinating "reverse engineering" project-- attempting to figure out why people have certain scores-- especially when there is a report or score that is unusual.
devildoc said: A friend of mine who is a mortgage broker told me about rapid rescore, which he uses to get clients scores up over some threshold within 72 hours so he can close a deal. the only site I found was www.rapidrescore.org Apparently the service (which costs him about $30 per CRA) will accurately identify what lines have to be paid down to what level to get a certain score, then they get the CRA's to update within 72hrs after the payments are made by the individual. Has anyone used, or even heard of, this service before? Kind of spendy, but if it saves a month of waiting for new 0%BTs it might be worth it. His experience has been that bringing utilization down below 30% on each CL gave the biggest bump in scores.
Yup. They were very popular in SoCal and brokers used them a lot about 5 or 6 years ago when higher scores were required. And you're right-paying down balances gives the biggest, quickest boost.
Then mortgage lending standards really loosened up and people weren't as driven to raise their score + 10 or 20 points. It didn't really make a difference. They may get popular again as underwriting tightens.
cardjuggler said: LaJollaInvestor said: because this morning I think I got definitive proof (to me at least) Er, beware of "confirmation bias".
He also has a over 1 million dollar interest-only mortgage But that's a fairly exceptional case (at least outside of CA). The harder question: a few years into a non-interest-only, non-jumbo mortgage, does paying MORE than the min improve score (by more than say 5 points)? I'm still skeptical. Perhaps the improvement came when you hit the 90% (or some other) threshold, and you could have gotten the same with a lump sum, and you won't continue to get any benefit. Or, perhaps the score increase had nothing to do with the mortgage.
Another thought about why that particular score wasn't higher-- no mix. I just ran another cosigner who has a big mortage, a big heloc, lots of car loans and credit cards and 1 negative- 3-30 day lates on a BMW loan. His score was higher than the pristine report I mentioned. I do think FICO "likes" you to use a mix of installment/mortgage/credit etc for the highest boost.
makingmovies said: It seems to me that if you are about to pay off your car loan or other installment loan, it may be better to keep it open with a very small balance. Obsolete paid-off loans which fall off the credit report after a few years seem to decrease the credit score slightly. Any thoughts?
markkundinger said: a) Most installment loans have minimum payment amounts. You can't really keep them with a "Very small balance" for that long. b) Most of the time, a paid-off loan will still remain on your credit report for a long long time.
a. In many cases, the lender waives the minimum requirement for monthly payment when you have rapidly pre-paid your installment loan. This happened to me. It's possible they want to maximize the interest received.
b. My paid-off loan became obsolete after 6 years for one of the CRAs. In the same month, there was a slight drop (5 points) in my FAKO score (I'm not 100% sure if it's cause-effect).
makingmovies said: It seems to me that if you are about to pay off your car loan or other installment loan, it may be better to keep it open with a very small balance. Obsolete paid-off loans which fall off the credit report after a few years seem to decrease the credit score slightly. Any thoughts?
markkundinger said: a) Most installment loans have minimum payment amounts. You can't really keep them with a "Very small balance" for that long. b) Most of the time, a paid-off loan will still remain on your credit report for a long long time.
a. In many cases, the lender waives the minimum requirement for monthly payment when you have rapidly pre-paid your installment loan. This happened to me. It's possible they want to maximize the interest received.
b. My paid-off loan became obsolete after 6 years for one of the CRAs. In the same month, there was a slight drop (5 points) in my FAKO score (I'm not 100% sure if it's cause-effect).
According to myFICO.com, two of my accounts showed balance increases (but I never keep a monthly balance on any of my credit cards), yet my FICO shot up 17 points
TheWalL said: DaveHanson said: BigHurt, if you're a costco executive member, TrueCredit is $7.46 a month, which I think is very reasonable for daily pulls.
In any case though, your point is well taken. A good list of promo/discount rates for credit monitoring services would be valuable.
Did you mean Identity Guard? Dont see TC linked rom Costco...hmm is there a secret backdoor?
Here is a page that shows $7.49 for executive members. Bottom left of the page:
Seamanser said: TheWalL said: DaveHanson said: BigHurt, if you're a costco executive member, TrueCredit is $7.46 a month, which I think is very reasonable for daily pulls.
In any case though, your point is well taken. A good list of promo/discount rates for credit monitoring services would be valuable.
Did you mean Identity Guard? Dont see TC linked rom Costco...hmm is there a secret backdoor?
Here is a page that shows $7.49 for executive members. Bottom left of the page:
I have a question. I monitor my FAKO's through TrueCredit. I did a mini-AOR back in Jan. with a reported HHI of around $200,000. I did some 0% BTs with around $25K showing as debt. Under the "trending" tab on TrueCredit, they have a Debt-to-Income Ratio. My ratio has been showing as 100% for the past 3 months. Obviously they are not taking into account my HHI. Their explanation of the chart reads:
"Your debt-to-income ratio compares the difference between the monthly income you entered and the monthly amount you spend to maintain your debt (as listed in your credit report or reported by you)."
My actual debt to income ratio is under 15%. Is this something I should try to get TrueCredit to fix? My FAKOs are from 751 to 793. I want to do a mini AOR for business cards in a few months.
Is this "trending" information from TrueCredit actually affecting my scores? Is it something that credit card companies actually look at, or is this just for customers of their service?
Well as an update to my previous post, I signed up for PrivacyGuard with the $1 for 2 months promotion. After I viewed my 3 bureau report and credit scores, I wanted to retrieve an updated report. Could not find this information so I emailed PrivacyGuard.
Apparently, you can only request an updated 3 bureau report every 30 days. Not exactly what I had expected since I was under the assumption that you could get daily requests if you wanted. So I think I am going to go the TrueCredit way and pay the monthly charge once this 2 month promotion expires.
I would like to update my report more frequently than a month. Anyone else experience this?
DaveHanson said: moxe22, don't worry about the HH income figures as per TrueCredit. Those aren't shared or used by the CRAs.
BigHurt, as mentioned above while PG should work, it'd be better to discuss credit monitoring alternatives in another thread.
Thanks Dave. That's what I guessed, but I wanted to be sure. One thing I've learned thanks to FWF, there's no such thing as being too careful when dealing with CRAs, CC companies, etc.
I have never had a mortgage or car loan. Obviously I have credit cards. I have one "line of credit" that shows up on my report but it is nothing but an overdraft for a checking account.
I'm not willing to take out a different type of loan if it costs me money just to thicken my credit profile.
However, I've had a Am.Ex Gold card since January. It still is not on any of my credit reports. Is a charge card sufficiently different from a credit card that it would help my credit score? Should I ask Am.Ex to start reporting it?
Secondly, I currently have about 16 credit cards. I have no "store" cards. I thought most store cards were operated by Citi or BoA anyway. Should I get one to diversify my credit profile? Or is that for people with only 1 or 2 credit cards?
ScootyPuffSr...charge cards are not reported until you default on it. To diversify your file, consider no-cost, no-fee HELOC (from the likes of DCU) if you own. You can also take a small auto loan on your car with your local bank/CU. That would sufficiently broaden coverage of your credit profile.
Store cards have been discussed before as not being very helpful to improve diversity.
TheWalL said: ScootyPuffSr...charge cards are not reported until you default on it. To diversify your file, consider no-cost, no-fee HELOC (from the likes of DCU) if you own. You can also take a small auto loan on your car with your local bank/CU. That would sufficiently broaden coverage of your credit profile.
Store cards have been discussed before as not being very helpful to improve diversity.
Thanks for the help. That really surprises me about the charge cards. I could swear that many people have said something like, "I'd love to drop this $100/year Am.Ex charge card, but I've had it since the 1960s and I don't want it to drop off my report".
Your suggestions seems accurate, however, as my Gold card is 4-5 months old and still not listed.
ScootyPuffSr said: I could swear that many people have said something like, "I'd love to drop this $100/year Am.Ex charge card, but I've had it since the 1960s and I don't want it to drop off my report".
Your suggestions seems accurate, however, as my Gold card is 4-5 months old and still not listed.
Some older charge cards do get reported...but they are getting rare. It usually depends on the issuer. AMEX is flaky; GEMB always reports.
I have a question about disputing with Experian. I recently applied for an affinity "Money Market Savings" account at BOA and they pulled my Experian report twice: on 04/29 (day of the application) and 05/05. I want to dispute the second pull away. However, I'm not finding a phone number to call. Before you say "Wake up, dude. You can only dispute with Experian via mail", I'd like to mention that a few months ago I got my free copy of the Experian credit report (the free once a year kind) and was able to initiate some changes on my file with them by talking to a live person on the phone ... but I can't find the phone number I called ... I also checked creditboards.com regarding this, but have not found anything useful. Does anyone have a phone # for Experian disputes?
ScootyPuffSr said: I have never had a mortgage or car loan. Obviously I have credit cards. I have one "line of credit" that shows up on my report but it is nothing but an overdraft for a checking account.
I'm not willing to take out a different type of loan if it costs me money just to thicken my credit profile.
However, I've had a Am.Ex Gold card since January. It still is not on any of my credit reports. Is a charge card sufficiently different from a credit card that it would help my credit score? Should I ask Am.Ex to start reporting it?
Secondly, I currently have about 16 credit cards. I have no "store" cards. I thought most store cards were operated by Citi or BoA anyway. Should I get one to diversify my credit profile? Or is that for people with only 1 or 2 credit cards?
Thanks for any advice.
Are you sure you need to improve your credit score? I've never taken out a mortgage and the last time I checked my FICO was >800. My husband's was >750 and he's never taken out credit on his own -- his only credit history is as an authorized user on a few of my cards. IME (albeit limited), it seems like you don't need a lot of diversity to have a decent score.
cyberkost - use the Review Report Again button on experian.com site and use the report number from the printed report you have.
madscribe - diversifying is one way to increase score and there has been some evidence supporting that in this thread in earlier pages. Some have claimed that it almost vaccinates your FICO score to a point where it doesnt change with changes in usage patterns of your CCS.
I think we need more info about your and your husband's credit profile as a datapoint. There might be something in your reports that we may have not stumbled upon so far if your claims are valid!
TheWalL, thanks (I'm aware of free Experian report monitor once you have the report number). I looked at the copy of my report a few times already, but could not find the phone number for disputes. Encouraged by you I looked one more time today and sure enough it was there, in the "Contacting US" part (I think it's the phone number for disputes -- what else would one call them for?). In my case the number is 800 493 1058 (I think it may be different depending on one's name or SSN). I also remember that one needs to have a report number ready in order to get through the menu to a live person.
ScootyPuffSr said: I have never had a mortgage or car loan. Obviously I have credit cards. I have one "line of credit" that shows up on my report but it is nothing but an overdraft for a checking account.
I'm not willing to take out a different type of loan if it costs me money just to thicken my credit profile.
You don't need loans or mortgages to improve scores. I have never had a mortgage and my last car loan was over 20 years ago so no longer in my file. You don't even need many cards, Before I did my AoR I had only 3 cards and had real FICO's above 810. Biggest part of keeping high score will come with age of credit and responsible use. If anything running out and getting new cards or loans will lower your score with the inquires and reducing your average credit age. I did my AoR 7 months ago added 10 cards and over $400k in new CL's, Score dropped a bit but now all are back between 787-800. Also like you I have always paid cards in full before they report so always showed zero debt, I was worried the $130k+ of AoR money would keep my score down, Evidently it did not
TheWalL said: diversifying is one way to increase score and there has been some evidence supporting that in this thread in earlier pages. Some have claimed that it almost vaccinates your FICO score to a point where it doesnt change with changes in usage patterns of your CCS.Would you point me to this evidence and those claims? I probably just missed them. BTW, thanks for pointing several others in the right direction.
scott1961 said: You don't need loans or mortgages to improve scores. Biggest part of keeping high score will come with age of credit and responsible use.Absolutely. If anything running out and getting new cards or loans will lower your score with the inquires and reducing your average credit age.That's true when, like you, someone already has older credit lines reporting. It's less significant when someone is starting out. I was worried the $130k+ of AoR money would keep my score down, Evidently it did notThat's surely because you had an almost ideal credit profile before..a few, but not many lines, relatively old, and no negatives at all.
1) Yes, currently my credit scores are adequate. However, I'm mostly a 50% + charge and hide before statement man so I feel like they SHOULD be adequate.
2) Yes, I know that CC alone will give me "good enough" credit. My score was 760 before I ever came to this board.
3) Yes, I realize that no amount of credit "depth" (long history?) or "width" (many credit products) will let me be a 99% gun slinger like MBaker AND maintain excellent credit.
4) However, if I could "widen" my profile with some low cost (inquiry only which I could bump off) "diverse" products, so that my report could withstand more 69% or 89% lines without taking me into "subprime range", I would love to TRY to do that. That was the point of my post.
For instance, I when I load up on credit I teeter on the edge of 670-680 credit. If I could blow an inquiry on a "store card" or a reporting "charge card" and keep my scores at 700 for the same debt load, I would gladly use the inquiry.
Right now my HHI has dropped significantly so I'm willing to take the "damage" now. I'm a little afraid to grow my lines until I get my HHI up again. I'm looking at products that will help me in the 3-5 year time frame.
DaveHanson said: TheWalL said: diversifying is one way to increase score and there has been some evidence supporting that in this thread in earlier pages. Some have claimed that it almost vaccinates your FICO score to a point where it doesnt change with changes in usage patterns of your CCS.Would you point me to this evidence and those claims? I probably just missed them. BTW, thanks for pointing several others in the right direction.
Several other posts around the web by others have pointed to similar things. FICO forums had some discussions but I cant seem to find it right now.
I'm just trying to help others from what I learned in this thread and following up on the suggestions I got over here...being a good community member is all
BTW Dave, do we have any data points on how long before new lines 'stop hurting' scores? One year mark is definitely a magic point but I'm guessing that is more because the scoring models start to ignore the inquiry caused by account opening app. But from Experian's profiles it seems like it takes almost 3 years before the pain can be fully erased and trust developed with the scoring models.
Then the corrollary is if its a good idea to close < 3 year old accounts that we dont care about (such as 6 month BT offer cards) if we have a long history already from other cards?
cyberkost - that is the number for disputes...only M-F 9am-5pm though.
That time kind of stinks IMO.
scott1961 - your file is too ideal and too old. You have such well established lines and payment histories which help your score so much. For most others (like me - history < 7 years old) we need a wide file as Dave and ScootyPuffSr have thought.
I have an interesting question: Since Experian/Equifax allow you to check your credit report whenever you have been denied for credit, I have been applying and getting a free credit report every month. I do it by applying for a CLI on my less than 6 month old Citi CC, since I know the CLI request will be denied under Citi's 6 month rule. So far, for the 3 months that I have done it, Citi has only done soft inquiries or no inquiries at all, and as far as I can tell my FAKOs haven't been affected (haven't checked FICOs in a few months). Should I worry about continuing to do this practice for the next few months (until I hit 6 mos) because of a hard inquiry, or other possible negative, or should I be ok to continue?
Has anyone seen evidence of a difference in scoring for paying a balance down over the course of say, 6 months vs. paying the entire balance off at the end of 6 months? I am closing on a house towards the end of the year and wonder if I should start paying back AOR money early in order to "prep" my score several months before the closing, or let it go for now and do a "mass payback" about a month before. I'm at about 25% total utilization, but the AOR lines range from 50-80% individually.
Credit reports don't really indicate how quickly debt was paid off, just what the current balance is, the credit limit, the monthly payment, and the highest balance. So paying off debt "fast" vs "slow" shouldn't really matter at the end.
Now, an individual lender might have more detailed information. So, for instance, if you pay off your Chase card fast or slow... then Chase might be able to examine what kind of payments you make on their own accounts. Some banks have cited making only minimum payments as a reason to deny a credit limit increase.
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