DaveHanson said:highmktgoods said:What can I do to increase chances of CLI with high util?Um, cut your utilization!

Seriously, you need to think about this long term. If you cut utilizationn to below 50% per card and overall, your chances of CLIs--and new good offers, too--increase dramatically. Before too long, you'll be making as much money with lower utilization as you were with the higher utilization (but lower limit) strategy you were persuing previously.

SCM used lots of techniques to mask his actual utilization, and worked with devoted purpose. He did eventually did ended up with scores of lines (most small) as a result.

His experience doesn't disprove the adage that the a great way to invite higher credit lines it to keep utilization low.

Definitely good advice and I can't count how many times I've read it. My question came about because it seemed that SCM had high utilization, but I may have just assumed that. I'm aware of many techniques to mask overall utilization, so maybe that's the answer I'm looking for.

I don't think it hurts your score to have a high combined CL, but I do think it can hurt your chances of future CLIs. If you have a balance on those credit lines, that is a different matter.

lakefish said:Question: I know CLI can lower overall untilization rate (good), but can high combined revolving CL hurt your score somehow? Is there a balancing point here or low unitilization is only key?

I have a few questions and after reading multiple threads, I found some implications but not clear answers. So I spell out here and appreciate your comments:

1) If I apply for multiple credit cards (not AOR) over a couple of months but no BTs, my utilization rate will be very low. My only hit here is the hard pulls on my CRA's points, right?

2) The logic behind AOR is to hide both utilization by BT and CRA hard-pulls counts (as much as possible), right?

3) Without BTs and with my low utilization (either individual or overall), what's reasonable hard-pull limits or frequency (any measurement here) before I stop? Example, is it ok for me to apply for a new card every month without affecting my CS in a major negative way? My previous score was around 800. Again, assuming I don't do BT here.

4) I am just trying to lay out a foundation for future credit expansion. Won't jump into BT now but might do it later with good timing. At the same time, I might get some signon bonus as well.

Many thanks for any comments and you may also refer me to some links which I obviously missed

Fascinating article in Business Week that sheds light on our proverbial question: "Why do lenders prefer to give lines spread over several cards rather than one big line?"

The article is specifically about Cap 1, but the information can be applied to any credit grantor.

Analysts, including Carl Neff, ratings director on card securitizations for Standard & Poor's, say Cap One tells investors that it carefully controls risk by giving such borrowers only small lines of credit. Indeed, the largest percentage of Cap One's 28 million credit-card accounts, 43%, have balances of $1,500 or less, according to its SEC filings. But if many borrowers had larger aggregate balances because they have multiple accounts, that percentage would be lower, and Cap One's "underwriting wouldn't appear as conservative as it looks," says the Financial Research Center's Puwalski.

Like other big card companies, Cap One securitizes most of its card receivables as bonds, which are rated by credit agencies such as Standard & Poor's. Cap One's ratings are strong, allowing it to command a higher price for the bonds. But Neff of S&P says he is surprised Cap One would offer riskier borrowers multiple, low-limit accounts given what it has told the market. "If it was a very prevalent practice, that would lower [Cap One's credit] quality in our eyes," Neff says. A sampling of credit counseling agencies across the country indicates that about a third of the troubled debtors they see with Cap One cards have two or more Cap One accounts.

The above quoted section specifically deals with higher credit lines, but the entire article is interesting. Here's the link Cap Ones Credit Trap

Dave, my appreciation for your feedback and clarification.

At this time, here is my intention:
1) set up a big net slowly by building strong credit profile
2) target big and fat fish but let go the pennies (no messy AOR at this time)
3) meanwhile pay attention to CS but it doesn't have to be perfect (only good enough to get promo CC offer and best re-fi mortgage)

Action Plan:
1) over years strategically apply for good promo CC with signup bonus and rewards (like 5%) but not necessarily good BT offer
2) don't let score go down too much, especially in the long run
3) increase CL even with hard pull from time to time or combine CL if possible
4) go to www.optoutprescreen.com to OPT IN(opted out before) for potential offer (now I remember...). I may have to do the same to all my CC companies
5) only after that, with high CS, high CL on hand, low utilization, no-need for new re-fi, then will try to catch big fat BT promo if available to me (only if it's big and fat)

Correct or improve my plan if you see any major loopholes in it. I appreciate your input because you take opportunity cost into account and everything you say is based on facts instead of speculation. Plus, CC companies may well change their risk model down the road, so I better take a balanced approach instead of catching fast but burning cash. Just my 2 cents.

I have a suggestion and a question. The suggestion is that if your credit card company does automatic credit line increases every so ofte, such as Chase does every 6 months, it would be a good idea to call them and disable that feature so that you can call in and request a line increase that is much larger than what they would have given you automatically. On one of my Chase cards, they kept increasing my line by a couple thousand each time. I got tired of waiting, turned off the auto feature by calling, and then after 6 months calld, asked, and received max possible credit line. After you get the credit increase you want, then turn the automated feature back on to see if they'll do any futher increases in the future.

My question is this:

I haven't had any problems getting large credit lines when I've wanted them. However, what peeves me is the note on my credit report indicating that I have too many revolving accounts and that they are "a-feared" that it is out of proportion with my income. The credit bureaus have no idea what my income is. They don't know how much I have in my asset accounts, and they certainly don't know how much I charge/payoff each month amongst my cards. So how the heck do they make the determination that I have too much revolving credit? Any guesses?

My only guess is that they make the determination via some sort of historical average and does not allow for drastic changes in someone's personal finances. So if I hold on to my current credit lines for a while, the bureaus will decide "oh, he's had this much of a line for x years with no issues, must be okay then." There has got to be tons of rich people out there with better hidden assets than I do and enough revolving credit to buy a nice house in NoVA, with no negatives on their credit report saying that they have too many revolving accounts. So how did these people get there? Is there anything I can actively do other than wait for my situation to become "seasoned"?

MaxRC said: However, what peeves me is the note on my credit report indicating that I have too many revolving accounts and that they are "a-feared" that it is out of proportion with my income.

What credit report has this note?

jairocon,

I see your points and tactics as well. I don't do BT now for the following reasons:

1) I do plan for mortgage re-fi in 2 years (still got 2.5 years left on 3.875% 5 year arm)
2) I opted out on www.optoutprescreen.com to turn off junk mail but also turned off juicy offers from CC for a few years. It has just been turned on yesterday so I hope something good might come my way.
3) I was under wrong impression (conventional wisdom, hehe) and declined high CL and reduced existing CL, fearing large revolving CL combined would hurt me. Now I see only high utilization will hurt you in long run and hard pulls will hurt you in short term but recover later.
4) Due to #2 and #3, I don't have large CL with juicy 0% BT offer (only 0% BT line is ATT Universal with
5k only). As I said, with 5k*90%*5%=225 (pre-tax), and I hurt my CS a little and lose my 5% on EDP. That's what I call pennies. Sadly, my mbna has 26k available but no good BT offer now.
5) Without BT now, with my plan, I can do hard pulls for my CLI and I am sure I can build a very strong base in 1 to 2 years without worrying anything. Once my mortgage is done, then I am set free.
6) Last but not the least, I don't know how CC company internal tracking system works in addition to snapshot version of CRA report which is easy to play with. Over long term, your risk could be higher than what we know now and your damage could be more difficlult and slower to to repair. THAT SAID, THIS IS MY SPECULATION WITHOUT AND PROOF. I admit, when it comes to my credit, I am chicken Seriously, I don't want to drive too close to cliff edge though in theory I can handle it.

Again, thank you for your points and I am just sharing mine. It's the best value this forum provides. Have a nice weekend

I thought I would ask this question here bc even though there has been discussion in other threads the info here has been so solid.

It's about AMEX auto CLIs.

I discovered tonight that it's back up and running. Sure enough, when I logged into my account and hit the CLI tab it took me to the new form which simply asks for amount requested and HH income.

I didn't click it though, even though I read some reports that it does not generate a hard (I'm in the middle of refinancing all of my properties and do not want any more hards on my report till I'm done)

Are the stories apocryphal? Or has anyone here personally tried the new form?
Thanks in advance

ps (re: the Cap 1 article)

Dave-- I know you love to deconstruct this stuff, as I do. It always bugged me that creditors preferred multi-lines but now that I've read this explanation it makes perfect sense.

And hey-- if I can help AMEX or Citi with their bond ratings I'm happy to be of assistance.

.

Since I got my $100k card it seems marketing to me has changed. In the last couple of weeks I have received 2 different magazines that I have never heard of, They were those very expensive type high gloss and thick paper. Were loaded with ad's for very high end items. now yesterday I got something called "Catalogue for Philanthropy" Was just a big book with all sorts of causes and organizations that need supporting. Has anyone else seen this kind of change when getting a high limit card?