here's another fellow's results from a few years ago:

I completed an App-O-Rama a few months back, and it's time to report the results and some nuggets of info and techniques gleaned in the process.

An AOR or App-O-Rama is a concentrated spree of applying for new credit and higher credit limits, after first prettying-up your credit scores to present the most attractive picture to potential creditors. By applying for many things in a short time period (a day or two or three), you don't let the creditors see the new accounts and higher limits while they're considering your applications. You can't avoid having the creditors see the inquiries and the score hits they cause. But it takes a few weeks for any new accounts to show up in your credit reports--as well as any new balances that you've created. Plus by adroit timing you can hide debts by playing the statement closing dates game.

I'll give a brief example of that. You owe $20,000 on card A with closing date 3/15/06. You owe $10,000 on card B with closing date 3/01/06. On 2/24/06, you balance transfer $10,000 from B to A. On 3/1, B's statement closes and shows you owe B nothing--that's reported to the 3 credit bureaus. You then transfer all $30,000 from A to B. When A closes, you owe nothing on A--that's reported as well. So the credit bureau thinks your debt has gone down by $30,000 and your utilization is 0 on both of those cards while, in actuality, you are just an aging hooker hiding your wrinkles with too much makeup. Metaphor aside, you get the idea.

Anyway, this is going to be a long post so let me start with some background so you can judge how much of this applies to your situation--or doesn't apply. I'm almost 60 years old and I've been playing the credit card game most of my life. My credit history is long (over 35 years) with no negatives except for one tax lien paid three years ago appearing on only one of the three bureau reports.

I used to pay all bills in full each month, taking advantage of low-cost balance transfers to make some arbitrage profits. But in recent years, some problems came up that made it impossible for me to pay off all my credit cards in full each month. I made some bad investments, my wife had some health problems not covered by insurance, I lost a major contract in my business (outsourced), and I needed funds for a big balloon payment on my mortgage. (It was supposed to roll over as interest only--but the person making that promise died and his executor didn't honor the promise.) Net result is that I've been carrying $125,000 to $185,000 in debt for the past few years on credit cards. The true overall balance due was around $165,000 at the time of this AOR, but appeared to be about $115,000 on my reports.

I've been able to keep the net interest I pay on that debt under 3% by adroit maneuvering, but a few months ago I realized that some special rates were coming to an end, I wasn't getting many new offers or credit line increases, and many of my cards were long past the intro period with the enticing benefits long gone. I had a Citibank AAdvantage MC card for over 30 years. Recently Citi was kind enough to increase my credit limit from $35,000 to $42,900. How nice--but there were no great balance transfer offers possible with it and it really didn't do me much good; I never used it. Time to get some of those juicy 0% offers!

And so I decided to do an App-O-Rama. I began by paying off/paying down card debt before the card statement closing dates, along the lines described above. I also transferred debt to my HELOC, even though the interest rate charged on the HELOC (prime -.25%) was more than I was paying on the credit cards. My FICO and FAKO scores (which I tracked) kept going up and, finally, at the end of November 2005 I decided to act. One true FICO score was then 717 (up from 686 earlier in the month), and the three Privacy Guard FAKO scores were 743/744/745, up from 711/710/712.. I got up early, applied for a few cards by phone, and then went online and filed a mess of applications for new personal credit, new business credit, and credit line increases on just about all my cards. (I had two dozen cards at the time with a total CL around $325,000. The HELOC adds $150,000 to that number.) I wasn't interested in mileage--just balance transfers and possibly cash rebates.

Here are the results.

Personal Cards
Success; $9,500.00 in new credit
$500 CL Citibank Diamond Preferred Rewards Card.
$5000 HSBC Platinum MC
$4000 Providian/Washington Mutual MC

Failure:
Citi® Dividend Platinum Select® Rewards MasterCard®
Citi® Platinum Select® MasterCard®
Bank of America Money Return Visa Platinum
Bank of America Financial Rewards Visa® Platinum
Discover Mileage Card

Business Cards
Success on all--no failures; total $79,500.00 new credit.
$18000 Bank of America Business Platinum
$20000 American Express Platinum Cash Rebate
$20000 CapitalOne No Hassles Business
$2500 Advanta Business Card (pre-approved for "up to $50,000"!)
$4000 CitiBusiness® Card
$15000 Chase Platinum Business Card

Credit Limit Increases
$2000 instant increase on Discover ($11,500 raised to $13,500)
$1600 instant increase on one Citibank card ($5,000 raised to $6,600).

Declined for increases on all others, including five Citibank cards, two Bank of America/Fleet cards, three American Express cards, and two CapitalOne cards. I had just done some reallocations at Chase, bringing one nice new card up to $39,500 credit limit a month earlier (0% for 12 months, $65 fee)--so I decided not to try for CLIs on any Chase cards.

Now some more details, conclusions, and observations.That's the point of this post--it's a little bit of bragging, natch, but I'm hoping to start some substantial discussions here. Let me throw out a few tidbits.

1) Note the $500 CL on that new Citibank card. It's now $51,000. Why? Because I reallocated $41,900 from my Citibank AAdvantage card, leaving $1,000, and reallocated $8600 from my Citibank Drivers' Edge card, leaving $1,000. That new card is a great card. The other two weren't. Citibank had no problem doing the reallocation instantly. In fact, Citibank suggested it!

2) That's right. A Citibank rep called me before giving me that $500 limit. She said that Citibank wouldn't give me another card because I already had three. I asked which ones she was seeing. She mentioned the Drivers' Edge card, the AAdvantage card, and my AT&T Universal card. Apparently, she didn't know I also had a Sears MasterCard (handled by Citi), and two Cornerstone MasterCards originally from Mellon Bank now handled by Citi. So that may explain why I keep reading Citi has a limit of 3 cards. The others may still not be quite merged with Citi's main computer system. And note that despite that conversation I was given the Citi card anyway with a $500 limit. No cards were consolidated (=closed).

She also told me that I couldn't get more cards from Citi because, based on the income I stated, I had more credit than their guidelines allowed. I asked how much that was. She wouldn't say.

3) Business credit is obviously easier for me to get than additional personal credit. The business cards are not listed on my credit reports. I don't know if they're listed anywhere accessible to the banks in one place.

4) Credit limit increases remain a mysterious subject for me. Basically, I was turned down by everyone. The reasons given were odd. CapitalOne said it wouldn't allow customer-initiated credit line increases. Well, OK. I've heard that before. But my two Cap1 personal cards were applied for on the same day three years ago--I was given $5,000 on one and $20,000 on the other. Seems to me they BOTH can't be the right amount. One is too high, one is too low.

I had three American Express personal cards at the time--limits $26,000, $23,000 and Gold (no stated limit), as well as one business card limit $13,000. When I asked for CLIs on each of those three, I got three letters by snail mail saying the same thing: "Your American Express Card credit line is at the current allowable maximum." Then why are the limits all different? And why did I get a second AMEX Business card with a $20,000 limit?

For Citi, the CLI request for my Sears card got a response that it was too soon since my last review. True--I had gotten a small increase a few months back. For the Mellon cards, the comment was "the amount of revolving balances on your credit bureau report is too high for additional credit at this time." For the Aadvantage and Drivers' Edge cards, the letter said "you already have the highest credit line that our policy allows, based on the income you reported to us." So these responses again imply that the latter two cards are in a different system than the other ones--the form letters are worded differently. Finally, the AT&T Universal Card got an immediate turndown on the online CLI application, followed by a letter stating "one or more of your account balances with other creditors is high when compared to the available credit" and "one of more of your accounts with us reflects high cash usage." High cash usage? what does that mean? The AT&T card had just a $5,000 limit and I wasn't using it at all.

As for the new card app turndowns, Citi said "It is our policy to limit the number of credit requests that we process within a 60‑day period. Our records show that you applied for credit with us within the past 60 days." Bank of America said for the first app "The line(s) of credit on your existing Bank of America credit card(s) is at the maximum amount based on the information you provided on your application. As a result, we are unable to extend an additional line of credit." For the second app, the online application was rejected on the grounds that another application was in progress.

5) The modest Citi Business CL of $4000 was accompanied by this letter:"We would be pleased to consider raising the credit line on your new businesss card account. This can be accomplished by moving a portion of your unused credit line from your existing credit card accounts or, if you have an inacitve account, we may be able to close that account and move the entire credit line to your new business card account." That's fair and I appreciated it. But I'll be "banking" this card.

Here's how "banking" the card works. The card has some nice features, and one of them is that 0% balance transfers are available for 12 months FROM THE TIME one is begun, as long as you start one within 12 months from when you get the card. So, I got the card in December 2005. In November 2006, I'll pay off that $51,000 card whose 0% term is coming to an end, I'll transfer the credit limit to THIS card, and then I'll start a balance transfer, thus getting 0% AGAIN through November 2007. Meanwhile, I can continue to use the card (with its double rewards) for regular purchases if I like without "using up" the BT offer.

6) What happened with the inquiries? Well, there were 2 on Equifax, 4 on Experian, and 12 on TransUnion. The 12 on TransUnion mysteriously came down to 9 in a few days--apparently some computer system thought multiple requests from Citibank represented ONE application for new credit instead of many. CapitalOne pulled from all three bureaus. Now, a few months later, "bumpage" has put my TU inquiries down to one.

7) What about my scores? Surprisingly, very little effect. Partly that's due to the business cards not being on my personal reports. I've also been very careful in how the new limits are used. With two cards of $39,500 and $51,000 limits AND 0% interest for a year, I couldn't resist--I used them to pay off my HELOC and ran them up to just below 90% of their limits. They're now below 75% of their limits. BUT I kept all the other usage down below 50%. The result? My true FICO score at one bureau went from 717 to 706 today; my three Privacy Guard FAKO scores are now 720/718/732. None of the scores ever fell below 700 after the AOR.

Note that strategy in number 7 carefully. I purposely am not using a lot of credit available to me, along the lines of BT strategies discussed here and elsewhere. I think that's benefiting me but I can't be sure. Last month, after paying down my Citibank HELOC almost completely, I received a letter from Citibank saying my interest rate on the HELOC was reduced from prime less .25% to prime less 5.26%! Huh? That was 1.99% then (and 2.24% now). I quickly drained the HELOC and put $150,000 into HSBC and ING savings at 4.8%/4.75%, making a nice risk free profit until that special rate comes to an end on 7/31/06. Why is Citibank so good to me with such an unexpected, unrequested offer? I have no idea. But it's POSSIBLE that the strategy I'm following had something to do with it.

9) This week I received pre-approved BUSINESS card offers from Cap1 (up to $20,000) and BofA (up to $35,000). I'm tempted once more but, nah, I'll wait a few months..

This game isn't for everyone. But it has its thrills and chills.

All comments welcome. Lots in here to mull over, methinks. Enjoy.
_________________
Polonius
"Neither a borrower, nor a lender be; For loan oft loses both itself and friend"

Great thread, seriouly everyone planning on AOR should read it..

One thing I would like to ask OP is how many hours do you figure you spent on this AOR all-in (researching, applying, managing, writing these posts)? I am attracted by the dollar figures mentioned but want to try to figure a per hour "salary" from an AOR.

2Cor521

shorty16300 said:Great post...I have been reading the AOR threads trying to get ready for my AOR and this was a great tutorial. Thanks a lot. I would give you green if I could find that damn boost button.

Date Posted: Sep/13/2006 12:43 PM Rating: +0 Boost Rating [ Alert Moderators ]

Its right next to your name and avatar.... far right!

yomuppet said:I'm also interested to hear approximately how many hours total you have spent on planning/implementing/resolving this AOR so far, and if you were to divide the total profit by that number what your hourly 'wage' would come out to be.

why does people always use that formula? Do you get paid after hours? Do you get paid when you are sleeping? Do you calculate your hourly wage when you are on vacation or the weekends?

Besides it's usually up to each individual how they spend on planning. You shouldn't use that as a basis for your own planning as it could be longer or shorter.

matr8x said:yomuppet said:I'm also interested to hear approximately how many hours total you have spent on planning/implementing/resolving this AOR so far, and if you were to divide the total profit by that number what your hourly 'wage' would come out to be.

why does people always use that formula? Do you get paid after hours? Do you get paid when you are sleeping? Do you calculate your hourly wage when you are on vacation or the weekends?

Besides it's usually up to each individual how they spend on planning. You shouldn't use that as a basis for your own planning as it could be longer or shorter.

I ask because the question to me is whether I would trade X hours of my time outside my normal job for $Y. Since I don't know how much time an AOR would take, nor how much $ I would gain, I hope to use OP's answer as a proxy to help decide whether to even pursue an AOR. I look at an AOR as a flexible, low-paying part time job. If I make $500 per hour I'm doing it. If I make $4 per hour I'd rather skip it and read a book.

It will also help me prioritize this against other opportunities to make money, like giving plasma, doing garage sales, etc.

2Cor521

SecondCor521 said:matr8x said:yomuppet said:I'm also interested to hear approximately how many hours total you have spent on planning/implementing/resolving this AOR so far, and if you were to divide the total profit by that number what your hourly 'wage' would come out to be.

why does people always use that formula? Do you get paid after hours? Do you get paid when you are sleeping? Do you calculate your hourly wage when you are on vacation or the weekends?

Besides it's usually up to each individual how they spend on planning. You shouldn't use that as a basis for your own planning as it could be longer or shorter.

I ask because the question to me is whether I would trade X hours of my time outside my normal job for $Y. Since I don't know how much time an AOR would take, nor how much $ I would gain, I hope to use OP's answer as a proxy to help decide whether to even pursue an AOR. I look at an AOR as a flexible, low-paying part time job. If I make $500 per hour I'm doing it. If I make $4 per hour I'd rather skip it and read a book.

It will also help me prioritize this against other opportunities to make money, like giving plasma, doing garage sales, etc.

2Cor521

I wonder if someone could do a 'Plasma-O-Rama'?

Anyhow, to answer everyone's question on how much time I spent on my AOR.....

The research and planning was not really anything structured. I work in an office and have quite a bit of downtime, so much of that was just reading all the helpful threads on past AOR's. When I finally decided that I was going to do one, I spent about a week on Stage 1 (calling my various cards for CL increases). I just did this during downtime at work as well. Next, I spent a few weeks writing out a little 'gameplan' and making a list of all the cards I wanted to apply for. This also consisted of an hour here or there at work when I was bored.

For Stage 2, I took a day off from work to actually perform the AOR (submitting all the apps). Stage 3 was completed over a few weeks after I recieved all of my new cards (most of my BT requests were included in the Stage 2 applications, but there were a few that I had to follow up on or request refund checks on). Finally, Stage 4 just occurred over time as I invested the dough and monitored everything.

Really, if you are willing to put in the time to understand how an AOR works, researching the cards you want to apply for, and customizing your AOR, the rest is pretty easy (and fun IMO!!). But setting the foundation and really understanding the basics of what you are doing is THE KEY to maximizing your AOR, in my opinion. Heck, I am still learning and hopefully will do better the next time!

Right now, I probably only spend an hour a week altogther just to monitor that my monthly payments are being made correctly and thinking about things I want to tweak (and that is only becuase I am a bit of a control freak).

As for $$$/hour, I have no idea. I don't really consider it work at all, so in my mind its all 'free money'.

I hope that helps!!

Thanks for the great post. I learned a lot.

Thank you OP for the comprehensive and well-organized post!

I think we could call your thread "AOR For Dummies" since everything is explained so plainly and completely. Great job!

I meant to say thanks to the OP for his time estimates. Also, as some have said, it does depend on how much one considers an AOR to be work. I enjoy doing it, so that would be part of the equation for me.

2Cor521