I went from a $4K Lowes card to $1.5M biz & pers. credit in 32 months

supercreditman said: Cyclone

I have tried for limit increases in the last couple of weeks. US Bank Harley Davidson Visa and the 2 Elan cards get a call every 3 months for automated $1500 increases on each. Circuit City Visa gets a call every 4 months for an automated increase of $1000. I recently applied for increases on the Penfed accounts and requested investigation of the EQ inquiry. Penfed increased my Visa to $40K and LOC to $20K last week. I tried for increases on all my Chase cards. They only increases my personal signature from $15K to $25K. I tried for increases to my BOA (MBNA) cards and they closed the older one and didn't do anything with the others, thank God! I call Wells Fargo every 6 months and get a no-questions-asked increase of $5K to my biz LOC. There are a couple others, but theses are the more notable accomplishments.

I saw you mentioning this on another board. I was surprised to see MBNA's COs rearing their problems with you again. It kinda worried my about requesting a CLI. As far as I knew, MBNA (if they pulled a CR) would usually pull a soft as an A/R to make a decision. It seems that BOA has accepted this practice. I wonder if BOA is also taking over MBNA's practice of providing automatic/instant CLI's without even a soft pull. At least they only messed with the only line.

I thought about your strategy and think there is one point that others may not fully take into account. Most (if not all) of your credit usage is on the business side of things, which does not report on your personal CR. Therefore, even when your personal CR shows a buildup of inquiries and some new accounts, it stays pretty stable because it appears your are not using this new credit. Others in other threads have noted that some lendors get shaky when they see a runup in balances on new credit. You get to avoid that and I feel it plays an important role.

I was thinking of maybe implementing your strategy (but on a small scale basis), but I do not think it would work too well for me. My business does not create too much cash flow (I have one rental property) and thus, most of my stuff is focused on my personal income and such. That being said, have you found that lenders look more at the business revenue, your stated personal income, or some other factor/combination?

Cyclone,

I didn't charge-off with MBNA. I settled with them for 33% on each of the 2 accounts. I did apply for the CLI on the BOA website, but since the merger, the ARE one. BOA/MBNA did pull a soft of my Experian report which does show the 2 accounts accurately. The analyst didn't have to investigate anything since they had the info right in front of them. I called to argue the point that the account, when with BOA, was in good standing from day one and that MBNA was just getting even with me since they had no reasonable reason for account closure. They will pull the soft, at least. For DW, they pull the soft, and 2 TU hards. For DW, they did grant 2 increases, one on personal and one on biz LOC. Yes, I am grateful that they only closed one personal card. The did leave open one personal, 2 biz credit cards, and 2 biz LOC's, so I'm not upset. I did use only account pay to pay $10 to the closed credit card and, the next day, it re-appeared on online banking with no comment about being closed, however, I think it still is. BUT, if they don't send me the refund, they will probably report the credit balance each month to the bureaus, while leaving the status as closed. That way, it will still pump up my credit report because it updates monthly. With FICO scoring models, the accounts that aren't updated within the most recent 3 months don't have as significant an impact on the score.

The business credit apps will ask business income. IMHO, your personal and perhaps household income are more important thant he biz income to many biz credit card issuers. Citi, of course, for the biz CC apps, looks at your biz credit file, then, if none, resorts to personal, supposedly. However, DW was denied biz credit due to no biz history found, even though personal credit is excellent. I wouldn't try Citi, for that reason. Something tells me that BOA, now after the merger, will not approve you, being that they have the littany of questions that MBNA is known to call and ask you. Plus, BOA reps have told me that they don't do real estate. However, I got approved for a LOC for my RE based company by stating that my company not only owns, BUT MANAGES REAL ESTATE. They seem to like professional and service related trades.

Advanta would be a strong possibility. So would Elan biz credit cards. I think they go only by the income stated in the app and the personal TU pull. Advanta started me at $15K. Now I'm at $23K limit. First Horizon's regional banker for your area will advise you that RE based business will not be approved, another professional and services related lender.

I'd build a biz credit file first by starting with revolving credit from Staples, Home Depot, Office Depot, etc. first, then once they start reporting to Experian biz credit and you get a file going, then you go after ones like the Citibiz cards and Sams Biz Discover who can/will approve on biz credit history only. The biz credit revolving accounts don't ask very much in the apps and are relatively easy to get. Often, the online app will give a code 25 or 26 and the card will arrive a month later anyway, with NO personal pull or SS number on app.

SCM

Mepps said: I for one want to say thank you to supercreditman. You're insight and compassion has changed my life. I will always remember you.

Mepps will live forever!

Being a sole proprietor, my personal and biz income are essentially one and the same, since they are both turned in on the same tax return. My return has a schedule E for unearned rental income.

Here's a question from me. Not sure if you've addressed this since this thread started quite a while back:

How can a get an AMEX Snobturion (black) card without an invite and without having to pay $2500/yr?

Cyclone,

I'm glad you're having a good year. You can do all things right and still have a bad year because your would-be customers are having a bad year, so a good year is a blessing. Congrats!

SCM

During my AoR I only had one TU pull and that was for Emigrant Direct card. Card is issued thru Juniper and their parent company Barclays Bank did the pull. Maybe you could check and see what other cards they offer

Scott,

I've already got 2 Juniper cards. A couple of months ago, I applied for the National Parks and Arbor Day Foundation cards. They approved one but denied the other. I called and asked them why the denial and the guy offered to open both if I split the limit between the 2. I wanted 2, contrary to many on this forum that believe in combining for better limits.

Loophole,

I'll check the links out the first chance I get. Thanks for going to the trouble of referring them to me.

SCM

I have actually just got turned on to this forum and I must say that it is real interesting. I can relate totally to you about your business and how you try and stay a float. As far as the personnel attacks you are getting you must realize that it is human nature to attack what we don't understand. Unless someone like myself has been there they truly do not understand. My family business has been in real estate and restaurants. I am the fourth generation doing this and yes I too like you am very scared everyday of failure. It is not only you that you fail but everyone else who depends on you to keep going. I again am in the same situation. I took over the family business three and half years ago after my father passing. I was able to double the value from 2m to just over 4m in the first 2 years. I took an approach similar to yours. I too still have a business platinum with AMEX and ran it up to $120k. They too got very nervous and chopped off 2 of my trade lines I can not use. I had used the pay over time feature and have been paying faithfully on time every month. In the last year I have paid down the balance to 55k but yet I still do not have use of the card. I do have a bunch of trade lines both personal and business, but I have yet to achieve your status. I hope someday to do just that. Like you in my business cash flow is very unstable and my layout is between $25 and 35k a month with everything. There are some months you fall short and you need the balance from somewhere otherwise like you stated you can loose everything. Everyone chooses the life they want to lead and if someone wants to lead a life of an angel with low risk, I agree with you, and just do it but don't criticize you for being different. I am like you as far as needing a lot more money just to survive. I will have made over $300,000 this years from all my business and yet I am still running in the red. The more you make the more you need to spend to make it and anyone who is truly successful in business realizes that.

Getting to the topic of credit and lenders. One thing to be on the look out for that I accidentally came across is that some lenders now have gone to breaking the law. The law of a thing called the statue of limitations that states you can not hold someone accountable for their past actions after 7 years. In this case I am referring to credit and the FCRA and FACTA. It stipulates that one can not be held accountable for bad debt after 7 years unless bankrupt which would then be 10 years. I found that BOA still has a bad account of mine in there files from the late 80's and the big one is Discover Card. I applied for a Discover Card against my better judgment and I got a letter back of denial. The reasoning was Financial Accounts 60 Days plus past due or charged off - This is not true I have 1 30 day late and that is it. Upon further investigation I found that they are using information on me from my days as a youth when I was in financial trouble because of credit. My indiscretions started in the mid 80's and finally caught up with me in the mid to late 90's. Long story short I had a lot of charge-offs had to settle with creditors because of court actions and I moved on with a valuable lesson. Only use credit for things that will produce you more money not to live a lifestyle you really can not afford.
Ratio of past due balances to total balances compared to industry - BS
High Ratio of Revolving Balances to Revolving credit Limits - I am currently under 20%
Then it goes further to state:
Your application was processed by a credit scoring system that assigns a numerical value to the various pieces of information we consider in evaluating an application. The information you provided in your application did not score a sufficient number of points for approval of the application. This is totally illegal in accordience with FACTA and yet they still do it. They are suppose to disclose this credit score, what was it based on and how I could improve it. Here is the real kicker when I looked at my credit reports which I do pull all 3 once a month I noticed that Discover Card did not even pull my credit. This of course made me ask where are they getting this bogus information from. Come to find out they were going by something that happened about 10 years ago!! Also illegal but it is obvious that they do not care.
In my closing comments playing the credit game is very tough and stressful and I do not know how you do it but I am glad I found this forum because I have learned some things.

Lostsite,

I'v read paragraph 1. It seems we have very, very similar situations, and we are committed to succeed regardless of adversity. I have 69 properties and the debt load is remarkably parallel with yours. I feel the same loyalty to my tenants as you do to your employees. And, if I were to fail, property value in my community would plummet for a decade as my properties flood the local real estate market at distressed prices. You know, no matter how much money I make and how current I stay with the bills, my wife and I argue constantly that my business is a failure because it isn't profitable. In profitability, yes it fails, but I count the fact that I provide a clean and comfortable home, if not luxurious, to people at the same price that others want for places that, by the applicants own admission, are unfit to live in. Same with my cars. I sell them for 60-75% of retail, not retail. The buyer could wreck the after buying them, and get more money from insurance than the car cost them. I am helping my community and that, to me, makes me a success, even if I don't have a balance sheet that says it. You are an employer, and because of you, people who might otherwise be unemployed, are working and productive. That makes you a major success in my book. In today's economy, anybody with the nerve to take a risk with their future when they could simply be an employee somewhere, is brave, because the odds are stacked against you from the get-go. I think local government, banks, and even the consumers aren't happy unless you are not profitable. Ever notice that a business NEVER gets as big of a crowd patronizing it as when they are having a going-out-of-business sale, liquidation, or auction.

It's a thankless job, and maybe nobody cares if you stay in it or not. I simply won't give people the satisfaction of seeing me fail! Ironically, every time failure seems imminent, something positive always happens that helps me make it just a little further. There HAS to be someone up there that sees what we're going through and gives us the strength to keep going.

SCM

LostSite,

OK. I read the other paragraph. BOA, and now MBNA too, are both very unforgiving when it comes to delinquencies. Many people on the credit forums have been dealing with BOA debt sold to collection agencies. I have tried to get those 2 settled MBNA accounts off my reports for over 3 years now. I even tried sicking the office of the Comptroller of Currency on them, but they won't budge. They scared me back then because they threatened to send the matter to their legal dept. and I figured I was no match for MBNA's legal dept. I gave up. Discover, from what I hear, also keeps a lifetime history on it's cardholders, and so does AMEX. When I settled with Discover, I was current and told them that I didn't want to wait until I wasn't, to work things out with them. That may be the reason they not only deleted the old accounts from my reports, but left me open new ones.

I would try sending sincere feedbacks messages to the ivory tower at BOA and Discover, asking for reconsideration and explaining the circumstances then and now. A PFB (Planet Feedback) sent to the president of BOA is how I got approved for my first BOA credit card with a $2K limit. Initially declined, a couple weeks later, a second credit report pull, out of the blue, and VOILA!, a card in the mail. Must've worked. I'm so glad for that first one because, now, even though the MBNA division closed that particular card last week, I still have $135.7K in credit with them, which I use routinely, even though the nearest branch is 20 miles away. That's what I did with Wells Fargo too. A letter to the president of business banking faxed to the same number I sent the app that they declined to. VOILA!, new checkbook 2 weeks later. Since then, increased twice, now $35K limit. I'm using $29K at 1% over prime for life.

SCM

supercreditman said: In my opinion, anyone or any company, cannot know with all certainty, that when they borrow money, they can or will be able to pay it back, and the create LLC's and INC's to insulate themselves from potential failure. I will not do that because I don't intend to run and hide from my business debt.

I hope this isn't too off topic, but you bring up an interesting point here, one which has always prevented me from being an entrepreneur.

How do you compete with LLCs and INCs who can take much bigger risks without fear of personal loss? I mean, by not taking advantage of these legal havens (and I agree that they are immoral), you are effectively stacking the deck against yourself.

makeinu said:
How do you compete with LLCs and INCs who can take much bigger risks without fear of personal loss? I mean, by not taking advantage of these legal havens (and I agree that they are immoral), you are effectively stacking the deck against yourself.

I would like to go one further. I have LLC's and s chapter corps and I am still exposed personally when I do anything financial because everyone wants a personnel guarantee so if you default with your business they have the right to come after you. I only inc my business to protect myself personally from the frivolous law suits I get at least once a year from people who do not want to earn money but want to try and steal yours by manipulating the system. So I would also like to know if there is a better way to minimize exposure and still get done what you need to get done.

Also SCM your comment of your wife put a smile on my face because I too go through the same BS with mine. They just do not understand and then you get into arguments all the time.

Lostsite,

My wife doesn't want economize at all. She is self-employed and has a part-time job, is going for her second masters, and yet, IMHO, she doesn't make wise decisions. Every magazine subscription, clothing catalog, etc. know to women, she gets. Spends her money on clothes that have $0 resale value, and won't pay any bills for the office space of mine she uses, or advertising, or equipment, supplies, etc. At my worst financial low, she used a biz LOC I had to practically beg her into talking to the banker about, to buy a new flashy sports car to rub in the nose of people who I'm begging to give me more time to get current with. Meanwhile, I don't spend anything on myself, and only buy things that I intend to resell or that break and I'm forced to buy to keep cash coming in. To top it all, everybody around here thinks I've got more money than GOD. Many won't talk to me but spread negative about me. Jealously in a small town. Frustrating!!!

SCM

I'm ready to try an AOR for TU pulling business credit available in PA. that I don't already have. I'm considering a WAMU biz CC but I don't know if they pull TU or EX for the biz card. For the personal Providian I opened about 6 months ago, they pulled TU. Does anyone have the WAMU biz credit card or a WAMU biz LOC, which may give me an idea who their biz credit dept pulls? Any other ideas. As I've said, my EQ report is back to not being able to being pulled otherwise I'd be looking for EQ pullers first and formost. I don't want to go overboard with the personal credit, so let's concentrate on biz pullers.

SCM

lostsite said: I only inc my business to protect myself personally from the frivolous law suits I get at least once a year from people who do not want to earn money but want to try and steal yours by manipulating the system.

You wouldn't happen to have any business relationships with the FW member that goes by the name of Codename47, would you?

SCM'
Unfortunately I had to shut it down for good. I hired a specialized consulting firm for this type of business and even they advise me to sell and get out. The other problem was I tried to sell it for equipment and licensing only and because of the constant bad mouthing I could not even do that. I had to close to the doors and liquidate everything. Then to add insult to injury the landlord of the building is trying to sue me. He rented the space out to a friend of his for a fraction of the cost and he suing me to try and get the difference from his rent to mine on the remainder of my lease. He won't win and I am countering his claim because I did a lot of building improvements to his property in the short time I was there. It is just the aggravation now that I have to contend with this law suit for the next 3 years or more and throw away money on lawyers to defend me. Check your private messages I sent you a message.

makeinu,
I do not know the person your referring to that goes by codename. All of my companies I either have 100% ownership in or no less than 90%, except for a contracting company I have with a life long friend in which we split 50-50.

lostsite said: Getting to the topic of credit and lenders. One thing to be on the look out for that I accidentally came across is that some lenders now have gone to breaking the law. The law of a thing called the statue of limitations that states you can not hold someone accountable for their past actions after 7 years. In this case I am referring to credit and the FCRA and FACTA. It stipulates that one can not be held accountable for bad debt after 7 years unless bankrupt which would then be 10 years. I found that BOA still has a bad account of mine in there files from the late 80's and the big one is Discover Card.

I think you are confusing the law, Statute of limitations on reporting, and internal blacklists.

The 7 year statute of limitations applies to Credit reporting ( this still is not to be confused with the legal statutes for suing). This simply means that the creditor can't keep reporting a negative after 7 years.

However, the time they have to sue you, collect, or hold you accountable are completely different.

Technically they can try to collect on an old debt forever. If they try to sue you, the SOL is an affirmative defense and depends on state laws. For example, my state is 3 years. SO negative accounts that are 5 years old remain on my reports for 2 more years, but they are SOL as far as suing me.

An internal black-list is simply the bank choosing not to extend credit to you again if you stiffed them before. AMEX, Discover, and others have known to black-list some for Life. That is their right.

If someone is reporting a bad account from the 80s on your credit reports, that is a violation. Not granting new credit is not.

lostsite said: If enough people got together and only gave business to those that are more understanding and honest

These people where I had one of my businesses actually went out of there way to do a smear campaign against me and I was never able to recover from it.

So which is it? You want people to only uses businesses that have a good reputation but then when your business suffered due to bad reputation you think the people are wrong.

Those people who didn't use your business were following your own advice and choose to stay away from a company that had a bad reputation (aka not understanding and honest).

lostsite said: asdf9876,

So if you think that is a good reason to stay away from an establishment that I had....well I will not go further.

and if you think that is wrong.....it speaks for itself.


I LOVE how you leave out all the relevant facts. Then when you put them in you have to make little jabs about how I have no morals and can't understand your upright ways.

You might as well have said, "I think people who miss work should be fired." and then later said "I missed work for a week straight". Then when I call you out on it you say, "My Dad died and I flew home to to his funeral...if you can't understand that I won't go further and it speaks of your character...".

I had no idea about your anti-drug policies. I have no idea about the cultural discrimination. You didn't share them so I like how you throw them in my face after the fact.

All I do know is you asked for people to use businesses based on their reputation then you complain when you your business went under because of your reputation.

I also like how people who can trace something in their family back to the 1800s that gives them the right to elitism and snobbery you just displayed.