By buying a Vanguard mutual fund through Ameritrade though, isn't that a way to avoid the $10 annual fee if you are below their minimum balance. I mean you pay the one time stock trade fee but as lond as it is a no-load fund there is no maintainence fee (atleast that's what my thinkin was when I bought a vanguard mutual fund 2 years ago)

gobucs007 said:kurfali said:Remember, you MUST open your ROTH by the end of the year, so you only have a day, if that. You can fund it up to 4/15, but you have to open it this year. hope this helps, this is my first post on FW.

is this true? i was hoping to open up a fidelity account today and fund 06 and 07..

not true. You can open the account today and fund both 06 and 07.

missmatch said:By buying a Vanguard mutual fund through Ameritrade though, isn't that a way to avoid the $10 annual fee if you are below their minimum balance. I mean you pay the one time stock trade fee but as lond as it is a no-load fund there is no maintainence fee (atleast that's what my thinkin was when I bought a vanguard mutual fund 2 years ago)

bump for more response

Fidelity or Vanguard - if you have 25k you can have both funds families for free:
Thread is here:
WellFargo PMA

When connected to a PMA checking account and if you have 25k of total assets (not just IRA) with Wells Fargo (even mortgage balances count) You can will have 100 trades/year with quite a few fund families (including Vanguard and Fidelity) for free. I think it's great option for those having the necessary amount of assets and looking for a fund supermarket. Review the thread for details.

Mordoch said:kaiotes said:if don't have i think 10k combined in Vanguard accounts, u will get hit 20 maintainence fees for each MF that you own. very misleading if you ask me...
This is wrong when talking about Roth IRAs. You need 5,000 dollars in a fund by one year after you initially invested in it to avoid any fees, otherwise you get charged 10$ for each fund in maintenance fees per year.

However, the Vanguard Star Fund has a 1,000 dollar minimum at which point you can avoid fees, and happens to do a rather good job of diversifying your investment.

(1). Looks like Roth IRA's which invest in their Target Retirement Funds have $0 maintenance fees and avoid the $10 custodial fee if balance is >$5K:

---------------------------------------------

Target Retirement Funds

12b-1 Fee None
Account Maintenance Fee None
Purchase Fee None
Redemption Fee None
Low Balance Fee

An annual $10 fee is generally deducted for each nonretirement fund account with a balance of less than $2,500. In addition, the fund account may be liquidated if the balance falls below $500. If your Vanguard account assets (including IRAs, employer-sponsored plans, brokerage accounts, annuities, as well as nonretirement fund accounts) total $50,000 or more, the low-balance fee may not apply.
IRA Custodial Fees

Vanguard charges the following custodial fees:

Traditional, Roth, and SEP IRAs. $10 a year for each fund account with a balance of less than $5,000. This fee may not apply if the IRA owner’s Vanguard account assets (including IRAs, employer-sponsored plans, brokerage accounts, annuities, and nonretirement accounts) total $50,000 or more.

SIMPLE IRAs. $25 a year for each fund account. This fee may not apply if the IRA owner’s Vanguard account assets (including IRAs, employer-sponsored plans, brokerage accounts, annuities, and nonretirement accounts) total $100,000 or more.

403(b)(7)s. $15 a year for each fund account.

Education Savings Accounts. $10 a year for each fund account with a balance of less than $5,000.

-----------------------------------

(2). However, if you open a Roth IRA and pick your own funds, say the Total Stock Market Index Fund, you'll get a $10 custodial fee for accounts less than $10K, but avoid the custodial fee for at least having $5K.

----------------------------------------------------------
Total Stock Market Index Fund

12b-1 Fee None
Account Maintenance Fee

Each Vanguard index fund (except the REIT Index Fund) charges a maintenance fee if the balance is below $10,000. The fee of $10 is deducted annually, or $2.50 per quarter for funds that distribute dividends more than once a year. If your distribution is less than the fee, a fraction of a share may be redeemed to make up the difference. Note that this fee applies to each fund account. For example, if you have an account with two index funds, each with less than $10,000, you will be charged a total of $20 a year. Similarly, if you have the same index fund in two different accounts (e.g., individual account, joint account, traditional IRA, Roth IRA, or any two accounts under different registrations or account numbers), each with less than $10,000, you will be charged a total of $20 a year.
Purchase Fee None
Redemption Fee None
Low Balance Fee

An annual $10 fee is generally deducted for each nonretirement fund account with a balance of less than $2,500. In addition, the fund account may be liquidated if the balance falls below $500. If your Vanguard account assets (including IRAs, employer-sponsored plans, brokerage accounts, annuities, as well as nonretirement fund accounts) total $50,000 or more, the low-balance fee may not apply.
IRA Custodial Fees

Vanguard charges the following custodial fees:

Traditional, Roth, and SEP IRAs. $10 a year for each fund account with a balance of less than $5,000. This fee may not apply if the IRA owner’s Vanguard account assets (including IRAs, employer-sponsored plans, brokerage accounts, annuities, and nonretirement accounts) total $50,000 or more.

SIMPLE IRAs. $25 a year for each fund account. This fee may not apply if the IRA owner’s Vanguard account assets (including IRAs, employer-sponsored plans, brokerage accounts, annuities, and nonretirement accounts) total $100,000 or more.

403(b)(7)s. $15 a year for each fund account.

Education Savings Accounts. $10 a year for each fund account with a balance of less than $5,000.
----------------------------------------------

(3). It seems pretty explicit in the last sentence of the maintenance fee section that even if the fund invested is in a Roth IRA, if it is less than $10K, you will incur a $10 maintenance fee (although bypassing the CUSTODIAL fee if at least $5K)

naroowal said:I know this thread is vanguard v/s fidelity. Etrade is giving 50 free trades and they too claim to have No load no transaction fee funds. I havent checked the expense ratios though.
Are their NTF funds the ones you want to use? Pick a fund first, then you'll have an easier time choosing where to hold it.

superfitz said:I am 27 and am looking to open up my first 401k. I'd like to avoid fees where possible and would be planning to just put in the standard 4,000 for year one.

I think you mean IRA, or else that statement does not make much sense. I will assume as much to answer your question.

superfitz said:I have a 401k from a company I left a few years ago with Vanguard that has about $40,000 in it. ... So does this money count towards that $50k amount

Yes. Since that 401k is under your social (even though it is an employer-sponsered plan), it is part of your "household" balance and would count. However, don't let that stop you from doing whatever you wish with your investment funds.

I have Vanguard and am happy to stay, but don't let that be the only reason. Most of $50k thing you see is so you can have Admiral shares, which have a lower expense ratio. Admiral funds won't apply to the 401k (since the employer chooses what funds are available and the class available is based on the employer's assets with Vanguard). So your real benefit would be lower expense rations on the funds outside the 401k.

I am sure there are other reasons and other functions of the $50k barrier to entry, but that (in my opinion) is the biggest one most people talk about.

More info can be found https://flagship.vanguard.com/VGApp/hnw/content/Funds/FundsAdmiralSharesOverviewJSP.jsp

More correctly, Admiral shares require $100K in that particular fund, or $50K if you have had the non-Admiral counterpart for more than 5 years. Fees get waived if you attain Voyager (>=$250K assets) or Flagship (>= $1M assets) status with Vanguard.

Voyager status will give you: No account maintenance fees, IRA fees, or wire transfer fees; and the following apply to the $250K needed: Including assets in mutual funds, employer-sponsored retirement plans, brokerage accounts, and annuities.


CycloneFW said:superfitz said:I am 27 and am looking to open up my first 401k. I'd like to avoid fees where possible and would be planning to just put in the standard 4,000 for year one.

I think you mean IRA, or else that statement does not make much sense. I will assume as much to answer your question.

superfitz said:I have a 401k from a company I left a few years ago with Vanguard that has about $40,000 in it. ... So does this money count towards that $50k amount

Yes. Since that 401k is under your social (even though it is an employer-sponsered plan), it is part of your "household" balance and would count. However, don't let that stop you from doing whatever you wish with your investment funds.

I have Vanguard and am happy to stay, but don't let that be the only reason. Most of $50k thing you see is so you can have Admiral shares, which have a lower expense ratio. Admiral funds won't apply to the 401k (since the employer chooses what funds are available and the class available is based on the employer's assets with Vanguard). So your real benefit would be lower expense rations on the funds outside the 401k.

I am sure there are other reasons and other functions of the $50k barrier to entry, but that (in my opinion) is the biggest one most people talk about.

More info can be found https://flagship.vanguard.com/VGApp/hnw/content/Funds/FundsAdmiralSharesOverviewJSP.jsp

Can anybody help me find Vanguard's ACH routing number? Striking out here with searches...

I want to setup transfers between Fidelity and Vanguard...looks like right now Vanguard's MMF's are higher...

alchemize said:Can anybody help me find Vanguard's ACH routing number? Striking out here with searches...

I want to setup transfers between Fidelity and Vanguard...looks like right now Vanguard's MMF's are higher...

You have to have a Vanguard Brokerage Advantage account that can be linked to your Vanguard MM. With Advantage, you then have what looks like a checking account via PNC Bank with a routing number that can be used for pushing money into your linked Vanguard MM. I can confirm this works at other financial institutions although I have no experience with Fidelity. (but you do have to pay fees for Advantage unless you qualify for Flagship status; I think Voyager status gets you a reduced fee)

Or else if you have a routing number for Fidelity, then use it at Vanguard to pull the money into your MM there.