After several weeks of reading the forum I'm preparing to throw my App-O-Ramma hat into the ring. Hopefully those veterans that are interested in following the App threads may take a minute and check this one out. My sincere thanks if you do as I'm a bit nervous on my first go around. I've never messed with my credit before so it's a semi large step for me, not that I'm not comfortable with it, it's just first time jitters. I've been learning a lot reading the forums, hopefully it will pay off.
My purpose in the thread is to chronicle in a (hopefully) coherent manner my app-o-ramma process. I will be updating this with the various steps I'm taking along the way. It's my intent to start the Apps in a few weeks. I've read through a majority of the app threads and many of my questions have been answered but I'm still shaky on a couple of parts and doubt I'll start the rama without fully understanding them.
Intent To build existing credit for future app-o-rammas To take advantage of sign up bonuses To take advantage of 0% BT money by depositing into high yield savings
Applicant Information Household Income: ~70,000 Currently Renting living in Manhattan Experian: 784; Equifax 788; Transunion 774 Checking: Chase Bank High Yield: Emigrant Direct
As you can see, I don't have a lot of previous credit. Since I never charge more than a few thousand dollars on my credit card at one time I never thought about building my credit up. Then I found FW....
Preparation
Preparation & research started a few weeks ago. 1. ~1/2: Began research on potential cards. Cards of interest are listed below
2. 1/2: Opened Yodlee account to track automatic payments
3. 1/9: Applied for a CLI on AMEX Blue & Chase Blink. Both previous CL's were $11,000. Instant approval on a soft pull to CL's listed above.
4. 1/13: Opened Emigrant Direct savings account and made initial transfer of funds from checking account to test. To my dismay funds were held for 7 business days before clearing despite electronic transfer from checking. Hopefully that was only for a first time deposit. Interest was being gained entire time however.
5. 1/17: Pulled annual free credit report from Annual Credit Report.com Transunion: 855 Did not pull scores from Equifax and Experian as both had no blemishes, I figured they would be close to the Transunion score. I probably will pull prior to app.
6. 1/22: Called several card issuers to verify the following information: -Reallocation of Credit Lines: Discover, Chase, BofA, Citibank, AMEX all indicated reallocation between cards was not a problem. -BT transfer policy: Citi, Discover, BofA CSR's indicated they would BT direct to checking which if I recall correctly is contrary to some members experiences as far as BofA and Discover are concerned. AMEX, Chase would only BT to another Card.
7. 1/23 Called Chase to make sure funds transfered from Emigrant Direct would not be held for an extended period of time. As Emigrant Direct only allows six pulls of funds a month I intend to transfer the funds needed to cover the minimum credit card payment to my checking account and pay from there.
Potential Cards
Credit Card--------BT Fee---------BT Period-------Bonus Sony Card-----3% to $75------12 billing cycles-------$100 credit Chase Priority Club-----3% to $75------6 billing cycles------$20 credit & 30,000 miles Citi Premier Plus-----3% to $250 waived-----15,0000 TY points Citi Professional SM-----None-----9 billing cycles-----$100 gift card $40 cardoffers Citi Simplicity Rewards-----None----12 billing cycles----$100 gift card Citi AT&T Universal Rewards-----None-----12 billing cycles-----$50 gift card w/ first purchase $30 cardoffers Discover Platinum-----None-----12 billing cycles-----5% CashBack $40 card offers BofA Worldpoints-----Will not BT-----12 billing cycles-----$50 statement credit & Ipod Nano Choice Privledges Visa-----Will not BT-----8,000 bonus points $30 card offers American Express Rewards Gold-----will not BT with this card-----10,000 pts w/ first purchase $40 card offers In:NYC-----None-----6 months----$40 cardoffers Starwood Preferred Guest-----Will not BT with this card-----10,000 pts w/ first purchase $40 card offers PNC Platinum Rewards-----None-----12 billing cycles-----$50 credit w/ $500 in purchases First National Rewards-----3% to $75-----9 billing cycles-----$50 gift card w/ first purchase Chase Free Cash-----3% to $75-----12 billing cycles-----1,000 points with first purchase Charles Schwab Visa-----Will Not BT-----$50 statement credit Capital One Platinum Max-----Will Not BT w/ this card-----No rewards Midwest Platinum Mastercard (Juniper)-----3% to $50 max----5,000 bonus miles 10,000 miles with BT
Total Potential Bonus Personal: $295 Statement Credits $220 Card Offers 67,000 miles for hotel night stays or other credits
1/24 update
Decided I will apply for six business cards. They are below:
Total Potential Bonus Business $150 Gift Card $125 card offers 40,000 points 2,500 miles
2/8 Update
App-O-Ramma commenced with 17 cards. The Chase Card that I never applied for (or so I still think) appeared in the mail. I destroyed it. So with the identity theft issue put to bed I went ahead with the app. Several were deferred as noted below. After much hemming and hawing I decided that I wouldn't apply for any of the business cards for my first AOR. I think in the future when I'm more comfortable with the process I will, but after the FR problems a bunch of folks have been having I'm not comfortable applying for the business cards yet. Results posted below.
2/16 Update
Put in the new approvals and denials along with the credit checks. Looks like AMEX only did one pull, subsequently I got approved for three new AMEX cards. Denied for all of my Chase cards which really sucks.
RESULTS Card--------------Status-----------------Limit Sony Rewards------Denied---------------Too many credit or loan accounts have been opened {Experian} Chase Priority----Denied---------------Too many credit or loan accounts have been opened {Expreian} Citi Premier Pass-Approved---------------$8,500 {TransU} Citi Professional-Approved---------------$6,000 Citi Simplicity---Deferred---------------unknown Citi AT&T Univ.---Approved---------------$5,900 BoA World Points--Approved---------------$8,100 Choice Privledges-Approved---------------$8,100 AMEX Rewards Gold-Approved---------------No pre set spending limit {Experian} In:NYC------------Approved---------------$10,000 Discover Platinum-Approved---------------$6,000 {Experian} Starwood Preferred-Approved--------------unknown PNC Plat Rewards---Deferred--------------unknown {Experian} Charles Schawb Visa-Approved-------------$5,000 Chase Free Cash---Denied---------------Too many credit or loan accounts have been opened {Experian} Capitol One Plat--Denied----------------Too many inquires {Experian, TransU, Equifax} Midwest Platinum Mastercard -Approved----$15,000 {TransU}
So lots of deferreds which seem to be about the norm, I thought I would get a few more instants but I think most should come through. I plan to BT to my Citi cards then deposit after the initial purchases are made and balances paid off.
Implementation
After approvals I plan to make required purchases and reallocate credit lines on my AMEX, Chase, and Citibank approvals to save on BT fees from individual cards then BT to my checking account and transfer into my Emigrant Direct account. Utilization will be kept to under 50% on all cards and 75% on any single card. My nerves come from two places.
1. I've never BT'd previously. Despite my inquiries, I have reservations about which cards will let me BT to a checking account. If they do not, I'm still not 100% clear on how to access the BT'd funds. As I understand it BT's from one credit card are a means of paying off exisitng balances on another credit card. So to receive the BT money if there is no balance the credit card company would issue a check (upon request) for the overage amount as the BT would count as a payment overage.
-If this is the case would I need to have a 0% credit card open on two cards from the same issuer? I.E. If I am approved for all three AMEX cards (bringing my cards to four total with my AMEX Blue) I would want to reallocate to a single AMEX card with a 0% BT policy. My question is where would I tell them to BT to if my credit line is on a single AMEX card? Would I have to keep another 0% AMEX card open to BT to that AMEX? Would I tell them to BT to a different 0% account (Citi, Chase etc?)
-When applying, the credit applications ask for a BT amount. How do I know what to put w/o knowing my limits? Reading previous threads people seem to ask for as much as possible and the issuer will determine how much to give you. If I want to reallocate to a single card however would the proper course of action be to leave that section blank and worry about it once the reallocation is done?
2. I'm hoping that using the Emigrant-->Chase Checking-->Yodlee Bill Pay pulling from checking is the best way for me to pay the monthly minimums. I plan on transfering the correct amount of funds for minimum payments early on in the billing cycle so I have no problems with the automatic bill pay pulling from my checking account. It's not a big worry of mine but as I haven't used yodlee extensivly before I have a small bit of nervousness.
Other than that I think I'm in a pretty good place with this AOR. I want to wait at least another few weeks so the CLI's show on my credit report. Again thanks for reading and any comments are appreciated.
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Barclays/Juniper is one I noticed your missing, also Wamu, and there may be others. Also, since you plan to invest to get interest income, that could pass for a business if you want to try for those. People have gotten approvals with $0 business income as long as they PG it, and have decent credit. The trans union score is a FAKO, but if those accounts you have are old enough, it should be high.
Isifhan said: 1. I've never BT'd previously. Despite my inquiries, I have reservations about which cards will let me BT to a checking account. If they do not, I'm still not 100% clear on how to access the BT'd funds. As I understand it BT's from one credit card are a means of paying off exisitng balances on another credit card. So to receive the BT money if there is no balance the credit card company would issue a check (upon request) for the overage amount as the BT would count as a payment overage.
To ease your nerves a bit, if you cant figure this out you can always request a balance transfer to a 'loan' that isnt a credit card. To your sister, father-in-law, a family member's business, etc. They'll just ask for the name, address, and account number (make one up), then mail a check. Just dont use someone with the same address or last name as you (and make sure its someone you trust, this person will be getting a really large check......).
It will take a couple weeks to process, but it is a very simple, very legit way to take advantage of a balance transfer offer.
Assuming you get even one citibank card, just do all your bt's to that, then use the citicards website to request an overpayment refund check to yourself, which you mail to emigrant. Once all the overpayment activity is done, you can request the BT off the Citibank cards as a check payable to you (which you deposit into Emigrant). Citibank is handy because the 12 mo doesn't start until you make the first BT, so there's no hurry.
Does the checking account normally have money in it? If not, then having to rely on timely transfers from the HYS seems to be a recipe for overdrafting if you don't manage it carefully. And if you leave a buffer in there, then that will reduce your profit somewhat (but not as much as overdraft fees would hurt). However, if you get the BofA Worldpoints (and maybe the Money Return) card, then you can use their billpay service to pay off other credit cards, which is super handy. It would also have the benefit of collating all your payments into one.
Note that there is nothing in the terms for the Worldpoints card that says that the fee is capped. This turns your 0% interest card into a 3% APR card, which is barely profitable (I'd probably rather use it for billpay than BT).
Finally, if you want to be more aggressive, you could always hit up a few more lenders.
PolarDude said: Also, since you plan to invest to get interest income, that could pass for a business if you want to try for those. People have gotten approvals with $0 business income as long as they PG it, and have decent credit.
Hmm, I didn't think about that. I think I'll try and go that route if they ask for financials. I'll update with business cards once I do some research.
Markkundinger said: Assuming you get even one citibank card, just do all your bt's to that, then use the citicards website to request an overpayment refund check to yourself, which you mail to emigrant. Once all the overpayment activity is done, you can request the BT off the Citibank cards as a check payable to you (which you deposit into Emigrant). Citibank is handy because the 12 mo doesn't start until you make the first BT, so there's no hurry.
I was thinking about that last night after I posted this actually. I think this is what I'll do. Appreciate the advice. Glitch thanks as well as that was another option I hadn't thought of.
Markkundinger said:
Does the checking account normally have money in it? If not, then having to rely on timely transfers from the HYS seems to be a recipe for overdrafting if you don't manage it carefully. And if you leave a buffer in there, then that will reduce your profit somewhat (but not as much as overdraft fees would hurt).
Checking always has money in it so I'm not worried about a couple of thousand in minimums. If not then I'll check into the BofA idea.
Markkundinger said: Note that there is nothing in the terms for the Worldpoints card that says that the fee is capped. This turns your 0% interest card into a 3% APR card, which is barely profitable (I'd probably rather use it for billpay than BT).
Hmm, I'll update that then. For some reason I thought I read that it was capped at $75. Thanks for the catch.
markkundinger said:Assuming you get even one citibank card, just do all your bt's to that, then use the citicards website to request an overpayment refund check to yourself, which you mail to...
So if I were to start to day, that would land in the 'mail to' account at the end of February if I'm lucky, mid march if I'm not.
I have an established Citibank card that has a promo offer of 6.99% with no BT fee. I requested BT checks and am using that as my destination account, then mailing the check wherever it's going. That costs about $2/day in interest per 10k but still better than waiting for Citi to get off their duff and mail that refund check. OP has an established Chase account, and he might check for a similar offer as I have one and they're promo is 5.99/life no bt fee. I've already gotten unsolicited BT checks from them but that's an account with only a 1K credit line as the rest moved over to the Sony Card. Of course these BTs will be active only for a few days to a week at most so it's the no BT fee that's most important aspect.
The noly card I remember seeing recently with no BT fee (unless done at the time of the app) was teh PNC Select Rewards Visa card.
everything else is pretty standard at 3% with a max of $75
for the Citi BT checks options, how large an amount are you guys able to get generally? I'm assuming it's a good idea to keep the BT amount under the total CL of the Citi card you are transferring to.
dgoedken said:Question...I though FICO scores only went up to 850???? How did you get an 855??????? you typed it twice...so...guessing not fat fingers...
This is a FAKO score actually. I'm going to pull FICO prior to apps and update accordingly.
iSpecK said:The noly card I remember seeing recently with no BT fee (unless done at the time of the app) was teh PNC Select Rewards Visa card.
everything else is pretty standard at 3% with a max of $75
for the Citi BT checks options, how large an amount are you guys able to get generally? I'm assuming it's a good idea to keep the BT amount under the total CL of the Citi card you are transferring to.
The ones that I had listed with No BT fees were outlined in the T&C's as fees being waived on this offer. I.E. from Citi's Simplicity Rewards & AT&T Universal Rewards:
3% of the amount of each balance transfer, $5 minimum, $75 maximum. However, there is no fee with the 0.00% APR balance transfer offer described above.
To be on the safe side however I will go back through each and reconfirm or update accordingly. Hmm thinking about it, does "APR balance transfer offer described above" mean that the waived fee is only offered at the time of application? I didn't read it to be like that but it could be.
1/9: Applied for a CLI on AMEX Blue & Chase Blink. Both previous CL's were $11,000. Instant approval on a soft pull to CL's listed above.
You might want to wait a while to make sure your credit report is reporting your new, higher limits.
I've also had good luck requesting BT checks from Chase and discover, make sure to read the fine print on them and/or call to verify that you'll get the promo rate.
You might want to wait a while to make sure your credit report is reporting your new, higher limits.
Doing that for sure.
1/24: updated with Business Cards I'll apply for. Using them for overall credit however and probably won't BT on those cards. Also fixed the Worldpoints to note that I won't be BTing with that card.
Do you have a goal in mind of how much BT $ you wish to play with? $60K, 80K, 100K,??
Also, do you know what cards you plan to keep for actual use and not BT? I am just curious, because there are some higher initial perk cards which are out there, but ones you are not considering so wanted to see if BT is your #1 priority and how much $ you are shooting for.
I admit that I was conservative in my app-a-rama if that isn't actually an oxymoron. <g>. For my first time out of the gate, I was apprehensive about going too high, until I got the feel of things. Also, it is much easier to balance fewer accounts with $20K each than 4 accounts with $5K each.
tashayar said:Do you have a goal in mind of how much BT $ you wish to play with? $60K, 80K, 100K,??
Well, that probably will be dependent on how much credit I'm approved for. My credit is good, but my history is small, so I don't know how much realistically I should be expecting. I want to keep utilization to 50% across all cards 70% on any one card so my guess is if I get approved for the 20 cards that I'm applying for I'll have over 100k credit but would probably only BT around 60-65k depending on what the limits are. Now if I surprise myself and get 200k plus in credit then I would love to BT 100k.
tashayar said: Also, do you know what cards you plan to keep for actual use and not BT? I am just curious, because there are some higher initial perk cards which are out there, but ones you are not considering so wanted to see if BT is your #1 priority and how much $ you are shooting for.
Right now (and this can certainly change) I wasn't planning on BTing the following: BofA Worldpoints, AMEX rewards gold, Starwood Preferred guest, Captial One Platinum Max based on the fact that they either don't have 0% BT offers or the BT isn't capped, but they do have good sign up bonuses.
I wasn't planning on BTing any of the Business cards as I wanted to use those to boost my overall credit and help towards utilization. However, if the CC companies wouldn't count those as a part of my overall credit utilization when looking at the 50/70 rule then I would probably re-evaluate. If you have suggestions as to which perk cards would be better than the above listed I'm open to switching around for sure.
tashayar said: I admit that I was conservative in my app-a-rama if that isn't actually an oxymoron. <g>. For my first time out of the gate, I was apprehensive about going too high, until I got the feel of things. Also, it is much easier to balance fewer accounts with $20K each than 4 accounts with $5K each.
Lol, totally an oxymoron. My plan is to reallocate a lot of the lines so I can either eliminate altogether or use those small 5k limits towards my overall utilization.
Updated with some new cards and moved the Citi Professional SM card to business section as I guess that's considered a business card. Wondering if applying for five AMEX cards (including business) will set off any alarms when I BT a significant amount of money. Don't really want to have to deal with a FR my first AOR We'll see what happens.
I did Citi Professional and Citi Business recently through Cardoffers. Each was offering 15,000 thank you pts and they were credited to my account just yesterday.
There is a lot of differing info going around, but I can tell you from MY experience Citi considers Citi Professional to be a PERSONAL card. That was the reason they gave me for closing an inactive personal card in order to open this one. It acts like a biz card, but is not one like the Citi Biz card. Soooo, tread carefully and consider how you wish to proceed.
My suggestions for cards/perks
1. Just checked card offers and if you click on the link for Citi Prof, then click "back" you will get a popup (make sure you have enabled popups) for an offer with 15,000 ty pts and still the $40 through cardoffers.
2. AMEX Business Gold Rewards w/25,000 pts Too many people have been upset about not getting the Tiger gc so I would skip that one totally and go for the proven method. PLUS, you score more.
3. Schwab $50 Statement Credit I didn't do this one recently but have done it 3x when they were offering $100 and $150. This gets credited pretty fast, too.
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We'll see what happens.