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WashWest101's Long Distance Runner App-o-Rama, updated 3/8

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Goals
1. Earn $4000-6000 in interest money by April 2008 (enough to max out my Roth IRA and possibly my wife's), while keeping utilization below 50%.
2. Keep credit scores high enough that i will have a wealth of attractive 0% BT offers to roll over balances rather than pay them off as promo rates expire. I'm treating this like a marathon, not a sprint.

Inspiration for this post
1. steevyniu2004's carefully planned, well-explained AOR thread
2. Rasher's detailed AOR thread with daily in progress updates
I hope this thread will be half as useful to someone as those were to me.

Preparation
1. Requested CLI on 3 of 5 existing cards (see below). Added more than $14k to available credit
2. Bought Equifax FICO. Score of 791 on 1/23
3. Opened new checking/savings accounts
**Everbank checking - all my BT money will start here, until the 6% promo rate ends
**PenFed, Addison Avenue - access to credit cards with no BT/cash advance fees
**GMAC MM savings
4. Applied for Advanta Platinum Business Card, 0% BT for 15 months; 3% fee, max $50, including convenience checks
**I applied before starting AOR, thinking it was independent of my personal credit report – first mistake. They did a hard pull (TransUnion). Looking back this info was on FWF, but i missed it.
5. Applied for PenFed Visa over the phone. (No new credit inquiry, since the one for my checking was so recent.)
6. Signed up for TrueCredit monitoring ($11.21/month through WalMart)

Pre-AOR credit scores (1/27/07)
Experian...... 754 Truecredit FAKO
Equifax.....791 Equifax FICO (Truecredit FAKO was close, 795)
TransUnion 769 Truecredit FAKO

Pre-AOR recent inquiries: 5 (3 TU, 1 Exp, 1 EQ)

Pre-AOR cards (5):
2 BofA, 1 FIA, 1 Citi, 1 Chase
Total CL: $78,900
Total balance: $3,488
Average account age: 4 years

Recently applied for (week before the AOR):
Advanta Business (0% on BT for 15 months) - Applied 1/22, Approved, $12,500
Pen Fed Visa Platinum Rewards (no-fee BT) - Applied 1/26, Approved, $20,000

Date of AOR: Tuesday, 1/30, from 10:30 am to 12:45 pm

Cards Applied for (in order)
1. PNC Bank Select Rewards Visa (Elan)....... Approved, $24,000 CL
2. State Farm Good Neighbor Visa ...... Deferred, Approved, $24,000 CL
3. Citi Diamond Preferred Rewards AMEX (+10,000 TY points) Approved, $5,700 CL
4. Citi AT&T Universal ($30 Cardoffers bonus).....Deferred... Approved 2/1/07
5. BofA Financial Rewards ........Deferred... Approved, $7,500 CL
6. Commerce Visa Platinum ........Deferred... Denied 2/2/07
7. AMEX IN:NYC ($40 Cardoffers bonus).............. Approved, $24,000 CL
8. Chase Visa Free Cash Rewards ........Deferred..... Approved, $6,000 CL
9. CitiBusiness Card MC (+15,000 TY points after 1st purchase) Deferred Approved, $15,000 CL
10. BofA Platinum Visa Business ......................Deferred Approved, $25,000 CL
11. Discover Platinum ($60 after purchase).. Deferred... Approved, $8,000 CL

3 weeks later: AMEX Business Gold Rewards Card (250,000 points).... Applied 2/21, Instant Approval, no CL, will not use for BT

Credit Bureaus pulled
TransUnion: Citi (3x), Advanta, Elan/PNC, FirstUSA/Chase, State Farm**, Commerce
Equifax: PenFed, Discover
Experian: BofA, AMEX (2x)

**Warning: SleepyNyte and cyberkost have reported multiple pulls from State Farm.

Early lessons learned
1. Don't worry about setting up bank accounts until after the AOR. I suspect that having two recent hard inquiries from (Everbank and Pen Fed) didn't help with my applications.
2. Be patient. Jumping the gun on the Advanta Business card (applying a week before the AOR) didn't help either, nor did the Chase Sony card i got in December.

Next steps
1. Wait for cards to roll in, then harvest BT cash.
2. Continue to pull reports at TrueCredit every 24 hours to bump inquiries from TU/EQ.

Who Will BT to Checking?
1. Advanta: Yes (via telephone)
2. AMEX NYC: No
3. BofA Financial Rewards: Yes (via telephone)
4. State Farm: No. Also sent cash advance checks not BT checks - beware.
5. PNC: Not by phone. Sent no-fee BT checks 3 weeks after approval.
6. Citi DPRA: Yes (via telephone). Also sent no-fee BT checks 2 weeks after approval.
7. Chase Cash Rewards: Not by phone. Sent BT checks shortly after approval, 3% fee applies.
8. BofA Business: Yes (via telephone). Also sent no-fee BT checks 2 weeks after approval.

Balance Transfers - all are 0% for 12 months with no-fee unless noted otherwise.
1. Advanta: Transferred $6k (48% util) to checking, 0% for 15 months, $50 BT fee.
2. AMEX NYC: Transferred $11.9k (49% util) to Citi/Chase cards, 0% for 6 months, no fee.
3. BofA Financial Rewards: Transferred $15k (49% util) to checking.
4. State Farm: Transferred $12k (under 50%), laundered through BofA, 0% for 9 months.
5. PNC: Transferred $11k (under 50%), laundered through BofA.
6. Citi DPRA: Transferred $15k (70%) to checking.
7. Chase Cash Rewards: Transferred $8k (under 50%) to checking, $75 fee.
8. BofA Business: Transfered $22k (under 90%) to checking, 0% for 6 months, no fee.

Total: $101,000 of BT money, about half of it free for 6 months.

Total cards applied for: 12
instant approval: 4
deferred approval: 7
denied: 1

Pre-AOR credit: $78,900
New credit added: $155,700
Total credit available: $234,600
BT cash obtained: $100,600

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just a quick comment. PenFed recently changed its cards around a little. For example, you used to be able to do BT's on the plat reward cards, after the change you cant do it at the lower rate anymore. So i would suggest you call them to confirm that you can do cash advances on the Plat Reward Card with no fees.

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You probably only will get 2 of the citi personal cards so I would go after the 2 best....I would suggest adding the citi prof. and biz cards...there are links out there for 15k ty points...should be able to get 2 of them...maybe 3 cards...sony card with $100 credit? there is an ongoing thread about the money return not getting the no fee bt offer..boa bt fee discussion..the efectiva still does and has a bonus on cardoffers...

I also like your comment about using your proceeds for your roth contribution...

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Get several credit union cards with no cash advance fees, and do cash advance to CU savings (risky, as outlined by davelanton here)
Based on lanton's method, his timeline was large credit balance then check request. From my readings this does setoff a lot of flags. Had he done the check request first and then got the BT to go through to get back to 0 balance, he may have been a lot better off. Costs a few dollars in interest, but better than getting your accounts closed (depending on the account...)

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FruityElf said:just a quick comment. PenFed recently changed its cards around a little. For example, you used to be able to do BT's on the plat reward cards, after the change you cant do it at the lower rate anymore. So i would suggest you call them to confirm that you can do cash advances on the Plat Reward Card with no fees.

Thanks for the tip. I will double check that.

EDIT: FruityElf is correct. Pen Fed's VISA gold has a 5.99% BT rate, but the Platinum Rewards card is 12.99% for BT. Neither card has a promo rate for cash advances, so i'll have to time the transfers so i don't pay interest for more than a day or two. If my math is right ($10,000 x .1299/365), that's about $3.56 per day on a $10k transfer.

golf247 said:Had he done the check request first and then got the BT to go through to get back to 0 balance, he may have been a lot better off. Costs a few dollars in interest, but better than getting your accounts closed (depending on the account...)

Good advice. I was thinking this myself, and also wondering if putting some of the cash advance in a Pen Fed certificate would keep those red flags down (to mix a metaphor).

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Just a thought: I don't see any new Chase cards on your list. I have had great success with them (yes, I know some FW folks haven't). Might want to add some of their cards. They have a business card that I use--the Chase Professional--that has 3% rebates on restaurants, office supplies and home improvement stores, AND a 0% 12 month BT with $75 max. And it does NOT hit your personal credit report.

Jim

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tarheeljim said:Just a thought: I don't see any new Chase cards on your list. I have had great success with them (yes, I know some FW folks haven't). Might want to add some of their cards. They have a business card that I use--the Chase Professional--that has 3% rebates on restaurants, office supplies and home improvement stores, AND a 0% 12 month BT with $75 max. And it does NOT hit your personal credit report.

Jim
I agree. Citi also has a business card 0%/12mth and no transfer fee.

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WashWest said:Commerce Visa Platinum Credit Card (2.9% for 6 months on BT and cash advances)
If you care at all about the card (e.g. for no BT or Cash Advance fees), you may want to apply early in the day rather than late. They were one of my few rejections (too many inquiries).

i'll have to time the transfers so i don't pay interest for more than a day or two
BTs can take a wildly different amount of time from different banks. So, it's good in theory but if you set your expectations too high you may be disappointed. A better metric: do you save enough compared to the time delay for various alternatives.

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Any reason you are using Everbank as your BT starting point? HSBC is offering a 6% return good until April.

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jelifah said:Any reason you are using Everbank as your BT starting point? HSBC is offering a 6% return good until April.

Since i have the Everbank set up, i'm going to stick with that. When the Everbank promo expires (late March), i'm going to go with the Amboy Preium Savings 5.35% APY account (assuming i can actually get $20,000 to invest - see update above).

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Day 2

My TrueCredit FAKOs slipped a little bit as the 9 new inquiries appeared:

Exp: 754 --> 750 (2 pulls: AMEX and BofA)
EQ: 795 --> 793 (1 pull: Discover)
TU: 769 --> 757 (6 pulls: Citi x 3, Elan/PNC, FirstUSA, StateFarm)

Got an e-mail from Commerce telling me to call their Loan-by-Phone department in two days.

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WashWest—

I did a fairly similar AOR in December, although perhaps not as well planned as yours. I also jumped the gun with the Advanta card, and as a result my Discover Platinum app was rejected due to too many new accounts. I've now gotten my Advanta card, and am preparing to BT to my Citi debit card (thus into my Citi checking account and straight from there to my Capital One Costco MMA). My questions to you are:

-It sounds like you BTed from Advanta (a business account) into your personal checking account. There's been some discussion on FW about whether they'll do this. Did they give you a hard time about it or ask any questions about the nature of your account?

-You BTed $6000. What fraction of your Advanta CL is that?

Thanks,

yeastbeast

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yeastbeast said:-It sounds like you BTed from Advanta (a business account) into your personal checking account. There's been some discussion on FW about whether they'll do this. Did they give you a hard time about it or ask any questions about the nature of your account?

-You BTed $6000. What fraction of your Advanta CL is that?


1) The Advanta CSR was happy to BT to my checking. I first explained that i had used my personal checking for business expenses and wanted to use the BT to pay back that "loan" (which is mostly true ). She asked whether the checking account was business or personal, and didn't object when i said "personal." Of course, it hasn't actually gone through yet...

2) My CL is $12.5k, so the $6k BT was 48%.

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Day 3

Approved for two more cards: AT&T Universal and Discover. The AT&T e-mail states: "Some details of your Card Agreement may be different from the terms that were disclosed on your application. Please be sure to review your Card Agreement for any changes." They better not take away my no-fee BT!

No big changes in the TrueCredit FAKOs. Exp and EQ stayed the same, TU dropped two points (757 --> 755) after a pull from Commerce.

I'll update the OP to show which card pulled which CRA.

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Day 4
Denied by Commerce for "too many recent inquiries and insufficient credit history." CardJuggler's warning was right on. Oh well - this wasn't a high priority. I have the PenFed card if i need a no-fee cash advance.

Approved for the BofA personal card, $7500 CL.

My BT from Advanta appeared in my checking account yesterday - 48 hours after i made the call. Big thumbs up for Advanta!

No new credit pulls.

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Day 5-7
Approved for the Chase Free Cash Rewards, $6000 CL. Reallocated a few grand from my existing Chase card to get up to $11,000. With a $75 BT fee, it's barely worth it to transfer only $5400 (49% util). I am tempted to go to 89% here.

Reallocated CL from other BofA cards to get the BofA Financial Rewards card up to $30,300. 0% APR only lasts for 6 months, so i'm tempted to transfer up to 89% here too. (No BT fee, however.)

Discover, Citi Diamond Pref and BofA Financial Rewards are reporting on my credit report as of this morning, the first new accounts to appear. FAKO scores holding steady at 750/755/790.

Still waiting to hear from State Farm, CitiBusiness and BofA Business. (Why are the business cards taking so long?)

My application to Juniper (EmigrantDirect card) is still not showing up online or by phone. I had a browser error at the end of my application, but i thought it went through. Guess not. I've removed that one from the list of apps.

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Day 8-10

Approved for the State Farm Good Neighbor card, $25,000 CL. Woo-hoo! I will call tonight to see if they'll BT to checking. With its no-fee, 0% BT for 9 months, this card should be near the top of anyone's AOR list.

Approved for CitiBusiness with a $15,000 CL and for BofA Business with a $25,000 CL. That's 10 out of 11 approved.

Still pulling all 3 credit reports on TrueCredit everyday. TU score has slipped a bit to 744, while the others are holding steady.

Waiting to get 6 more cards in the mail. I expect BT harvesting to ramp up next week, and will update this thread then.

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Thanks for taking the time to update. Congratulations on your success!

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Week 3

BT Harvesting is underway.

1. Transferred $9k from AMEX In:NYC card
***$5k to Citi card, requested refund check as soon as it posted
***$4k to Chase card, to pay existing balance
2. Consolidated other BofA credit lines to BofA Financial Rewards, increasing limit to $30.3k, then transferred $25k from BofA FR to checking. No fee, 6 months of 0% APR.
3. Transferred $11k from PNC to BofA Financial Rewards (since PNC will not BT to checking). No fee, 12 months of 0% APR.
4. Transferred $12k from State Farm to BofA Financial Rewards (since State Farm will not BT to checking). No fee, 9 months of 0% APR.
5. As soon as the PNC/State Farm BTs go through, i'll use one of the BofA FR convenience checks to BT $13k to my checking account. (That's a bit under 50% util.) No fee, 6 months of 0% APR.
6. Consolidated Chase credit line to Chase Cash Rewards, increasing limit to $17k. Will write $14k convenience check, since Chase won't BT to checking. $75 fee, 12 months of 0% APR.
7. Consolidated Citi credit line to Citi Diamond Preferred AMEX, increasing limit to $20k. Will BT $17k to checking. No fee, 10 months of 0% APR.
8. Once those BTs clear, i'll use the BofA business card to BT a total of $12K back to the two cards above, knocking both of them back under 50% util. No fee, 6 months of 0% APR.

Including the $6k Advanta BT i did weeks ago, that's a total of $83,500 in BT money, keeping each card under 50% util (except for a brief period when some cards will be over while waiting BTs from other cards).

I still have a few other cards with 0% BT offers, to use once the 6 month promo on the 2 BofA cards nears its end.

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