SUCKISSTAPLES said:we're not saying he is stupid for his choice to live a debt free life... thats his choice.
The lie here is, of course, that he's living a debt-free life. He's not. Every time he turns on a lightbulb, he's in debt. Every time he picks up the phone, he's in debt. At a sit-down restaurant eating a meal not yet billed? In debt. It's merely a difference of whom he owes money to, how much, and when it's due. To live a truly debt-free existence (i.e., his ideal), he'd need to construct a coin-op, pre-pay world.

And that's all OK, because if he doesn't trust himself with a credit card, no bank should either. So a FICO of zero sounds just about right to me.

The evangelical, holier-than-thou tone should go, though.

calmloki said:RushnRockt said:calmloki said:
Yup - uphill through the snow barefoot both ways - and we liked it! Regarding the online economy - while i use it i'm not convinced it is a good thing: for every outstanding customer service Zappos there are dozens of less sterling sellers. There's something to be said for holding a potential purchase in your hand rather than looking at the monitor. Probably fewer unsuitable unreturned purchases from B&M stores. While boosting UPS and USPS workload vastly we have hurt the local stores - hardware stores that don't get all your big and little hardware purchases can no longer afford to sell you a couple screws and some gasket material - they've gone out of business 'cause we price shopped from an online source who is having our order dropshipped. Result is everything becomes a blackbox - need a screw or a handle for your coffee carafe? Can't get one. Gotta buy a new $60 machine.
I kinda like lights and heat and indoor plumbing - i'm not convinced that slowing down and maybe having the chance to think about purchases is a bad thing for the buyer. But as SIS says, we're probably the responsible minority that take the advantages with not many of the negatives. Not a total Luddite - ordered a dump valve for a carpet cleaner from Dallas this morning using my PenFed card because the local janitorial supply didn't stock it.

Your Home Depot doesn't sell screws? You conveniently ignored the fact that all these online stores LOWERED the price on many goods. And the reason you avoided that fact is that it goes against your claim that credit cards increase prices. I don't think there is a point in arguing your understanding of economics if you are just going to pick and choose the "negative" aspects without acknowledging the overwhelming positive factors. I do recommend you read up more about economics and finance though, it might help you understand the issues as one whole picture.

Ok, I'm a dummy - thanks for the recommendation that i improve my knowledge. Kinda think it's sad you think Home Depot is a local hardware store. You really think i haven't acnowledged the positive aspects of credit cards? I thought i was pretty explicit about how i used them. And i think it is you who is missing the whole picture - but that's ok - really not attacking you Rushn - dunno why you're coming off like i whizzed in your wheaties.

What's wrong with lower prices? Businesses that are inefficient get removed from society. Anytime a consumer can receive a good for lower cost, it's a good thing.

App-O-Rama : sticky thread, top of this forum

CoffeeEater said:kamalktk said:hypochondriac said:Even talking about a late fee SHE can be off.... I'm guessing SHE was burned by CC recently and has residual anger towards them.
It's a man.

Allegedly a man. Because of the irrational statements in the article, I believe it's a female author.

Stop with the female bashing already. This is not the 1800's. Many women contribute great information here.

international blvd, oakland

SUCKISSTAPLES said:international blvd, oakland

frequent visitor? I thought you'd be a little higher class than that. I still owe you a beer SIS.

Read this story in the Boston Globe business section yesterday, I like his term for what we call AoR, "Playing musical chairs with credit cards" He claims this, "The first warning sign is the size of the debt. No person of modest means, as this reader is, should rack up $45,000 in credit-card debt -- ever, under any circumstances." Guess we prove him wrong

Boston Globe

Playing musical chairs with credit cards to save on interest rates is risky
By Jeff Brown | January 31, 2007

What would you tell this man, who phoned for my thoughts on his credit card strategy?

He is a retiree who has been carrying $45,000 in card debt for three or four years. Although he has savings enough to pay the whole amount immediately, he has been shifting the debt from card to card, to take advantage of introductory offers that waive interest charges on "balance transfers" for the first few months.

This way, he has avoided paying interest on the card debt. Meanwhile, money that could be used to pay the debt has instead been earning 8 to 9 percent a year, in a variety of investments.

Is he clever?

Or crazy?

Too clever for his own good, in my view.

The first warning sign is the size of the debt. No person of modest means, as this reader is, should rack up $45,000 in credit-card debt -- ever, under any circumstances.

Credit cards should be used only as a safe and convenient alternative to carrying cash. Ideally, you should not incur more debt than you can pay off by the end of the month, thus avoiding any interest charges. (OK, go a bit longer after the holidays or a vacation. But not more than two or three months.)

The second danger signal is habitually shifting the debt from card to card. That's like pouring a drink while the last one is still half full -- a sign of addiction.

Third, while the math behind this reader's strategy looks sound on first glance, it's a risky game of musical chairs.

The reader argues he comes out ahead by earning 8 to 9 percent on his investments. But to do that, one generally has to take some risk -- by investing in stocks or stock mutual funds, for example.

What if the market plunges? The reader might be left with too little to pay off the card debt.

And the zero-percent introductory offers may stop coming. If so, the reader would be stuck paying the regular "go-to" card rates -- 15, 18, or 20 percent.

In addition, most zero-percent deals are salted with land mines. Make a payment late, for example, and the sky-high go-to rate may kick in immediately.

Generally, the zero-percent deal applies only to the balance transfer, while the go-to rate applies to debts incurred when the card is used for ordinary charges.

In most cases, any payments the borrower makes are first applied to the zero-percent portion of the debt. That means the high rates charged on new debts snowball until the transfer is paid off. In this case, the card user can end up paying interest upon interest.

Finally, the reader's strategy overlooks the fact that the credit rating agencies know what he's doing -- they see everything.

Opening numerous card accounts, and frequently shifting money between cards, without reducing the overall debt, is a red flag that could hurt his ability to borrow money in the future.

After all, the card issuers don't value customers who don't pay interest. And lenders know from experience that people who use transfer after transfer to postpone paying off their debts often end up in a box and never pay what they owe. So lenders don't want this kind of borrower.

In fact, this behavior with credit cards is likely to hurt one's ability to get a mortgage or car loan, as well.

Is there never a time when a balance transfer makes sense?

It might make sense if you're in a temporary fix and do it once. Pick a card that waives interest on the transfer for at least six months. And look out for transfer fees -- some cards have them, some don't.

Once the transfer is done, work hard to reduce the debt. Don't use the new card for new charges, or you'll be paying high interest rates until the transfer is paid off.

And think twice before throwing out the old card. Your credit report looks better if you've had just one or two cards and used them responsibly year after year.

Not crazy playing 0% BT's but a little nuts investing the money to get 8 or 9%. He must not care if he loses.

GTFan said:Not crazy playing 0% BT's but a little nuts investing the money to get 8 or 9%. He must not care if he loses.
The article states he has the savings to pay it off immediately if he had to, So he is safe. That is the only reason I did one. If I did not have the cash available to pay it off if something happened I probably would not have done one. I did send him an email telling him that all debt is not bad. Also told him how I was practical forced to take that $100K from MBNA for $75.

enkey said:Is it true that if you dont have any credit activity on your SSN, then your history get wiped out?
say for eg. if I go and stay in Thailand for 5 years and dont use a cc or any thing.

Just curious?Not true.