After reading virtually every AOR thread (took me a month) at FWF, including SIS 34-page sticky, I jumped on the band wagon. My AOR was (well, I should say 'is', as I'm only done with phases 1 & 2: info gathering & applying) a fairly limited scope AOR. I wanted to minimize upfront expense (so far it's going to be 4 months of truecredit @11.99/mo. and some, hopefully, minimal BT fees). I did not apply for any cards with an annual fee or some steep requirements to get the bonuses. I did not get a PenFed VISA (esp. now, as its benefits are not as attractive as they used to be) ... basically I reached for a low-hanging fruit ... with the goals of getting cash and/or TY points rewards (not interested in air miles, hotel points, etc.) and as much as possible 0% BT money (with fees capped at $75 or less, including, obviously, no fee offers) preferably with easy access to it. I was also mindful of the fact that I may be shopping for a mortgage in 16 months or so ...
I absolutely have to say THANK YOU to the gurus (SIS, DaveHanson, mhesidence) as well as to many recent additions to the AOR club (asdf9876, jairocon, Hindustani, PugRanch, psychtobe, Isifhan) and many others whose posts have helped me understand the theory and the practice of AOR.
Just before the AOR I had 4 active cards and 20 closed ones (yes, I was young and stupid, and wanted to keep my credit card collection "neat and clean", free of old useless crap like Buy.com, Amazon.com and department store cards). The 4 active cards I had were:
1. CHASE Rewards (3% gas, 1% everything else monthly statement credit, my everyday card for "everything else") CL=$30000
2. CHASE Sony (signed up on 12/24/06 and have gotten the $150 bonus already, 0% BT till Nov'07, plan to use in phase 3 of the AOR) CL=$15000
3. CITI Diamond Rewards #1 (5% gas groceries, and drugs, 1% everything else in TY points -- my everyday groceries+gas card) CL=$12700
4. CITI Diamond Rewards #2 (5% gas groceries, and drugs, 1% everything else in TY points -- my oldest card from 1997) CL=$6100
My checking account is with CHASE. I also have ING, ED and HSBC online savings accounts + a couple of 401(k)s. Household income is at $100K/year, rent is $1900/mo.
I applied for (card name is the link to the actual application starting point, cards are listed in the order applied for; first 10 were applied early morning 02/13, last 5 -- around lunchtime on 02/16, those numbered in bold font were approved, regular font -- denied):
01. CITI PremierPass MC Non-Elite ($33 CardOffers + 5K points) --> deferred --> approved 02/16 (e-mail), card came 02/23 (CL=$6700, but this turned out to be "no pre-set spending limit" card)
02. CITI CITIBusiness MC ($10 CardOffers + 10K points) --> deferred --> approved, card came 02/20, CL=$40000
03. CITI Professional MC (15K points) --> approved, CL=$6000
04. WaMU VISA Platinum (targeted mail, free TU credit reports & score) --> approved, CL=$12000 (requested $29000 to checking on the appl. form)
05. Pulaski Gold VISA ($40 CardOffers) --> asked for income verification (faxed in, waiting ..) --> denied ("insufficient length of employment" -- I had 7yr8mo on my application)
06. PNC Select Rewards Platinum VISA --> deferred --> approved 02/14 with CL=$8000, called to (succesfully) increase CL to $20000
07. BofA Finacial Rewards VISA ($30 CardOffers) --> approved with CL=$10400 (requested $25000 transfer to VISA DEBIT card on appl.)
08. BofA NEA WorldPoint Platinum Plus VISA --> deferred (requested $25000 transfer to VISA DEBIT card on appl.) --> approved with CL=$26000 (need to be an NEA member in order to apply, see here)
09. Morgan Stanley Discover Gas ($40 CardOffers) --> approved, card came on 02/20 with CL=$6000
10. Chase Free Cash Rewards VISA (1K points) --> deferred, 02/19 showed in my Chase online account with CL=$10000
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11. State Farm Good Neighbor VISA --> deferred --> denied 03/04
12. Advanta Platinum Business MC --> instant denial (see exact phrasing down in the thread)
13. AMEX IN:NYC ($40 from CardOffers) --> deferred --> approved 02/20 in the identity verification call, CL=$2000 (subsequently increased to $24500).
14. AMEX Starwood Preferred Guest ($40 CardOffers, 10K+ Starwood points, convertable to FF miles) --> deferred --> approved, CL=$2500 (subsequently increased to $24500).
15. Juniper I Fly America VISA --> deferred (they've sent an e-mail telling they're going to request some addt-l info from me via snail mail -- how stupid is that?) --> denied (Excessive credit applications)
It took me 11-12 minutes per card (with printing out almost every page of the application process and not using RoboForm)
Below is the BT situation with each of the cards applied. All have 0% BTs, so I only indicate BT length [month], BT fee, BT fee cap, and the timeframe:
01. CITI PremierPass MC Non-Elite (12, 0%, $0, has to start within 12 mo.)
02. CITI CITIBusiness MC (12, 0%, $0, has to start within 12 mo.)
03. CITI Professional MC (12, 0%, $0, has to start within 12 mo.)
04. WAMU VISA Platinum (12, 3%, $75, until 03/01/08)
05. Pulaski Gold VISA (6, 0%, $0, has to start within 3 mo.)
06. PNC Select Rewards Platinum VISA (12, 0%, $0, first 12 billing cycles)
07. BofA Finacial Rewards VISA (6, 0%, $0, first 6 billing cycles)
08. BofA NEA WorldPoint Platinum Plus VISA (12, 2%, $30, first 12 billing cycles)
09. Morgan Stanley Discover Gas (12, 0%, $0, ends Mar'08 billing cycle)
10. Chase Free Cash Rewards VISA (3 or 12 if you qualify for Premier or Elite status [I got 12], 3%, $75, starts on applying)
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11. State Farm Good Neighbor VISA (12, 0%, $0, starts on applying)
12. Advanta Platinum Business MC (15, 3%, $50, starts on applying)
13. AMEX IN:NYC (6, 0%, $0, first 6 months of membership)
14. AMEX Starwood Preferred Guest (don't intend to BT, mostly for lower utilization and rewards)
15. Juniper I Fly America VISA (12, 3%, $50, first 12 months)
In addition to applying for new cards I:
1. Increased CL from $12700 to $25000 on CITI Diamond Preferred MC (hard pull)
2. Asked for, but FAILED to increase CL from $6100 to $20000 on my second CITI Diamond Preferred MC (no hard pull?)
3. Asked for, but FAILED to increase CL from $15000 to $25000 on CHASE Sony VISA (likely b/c I had a recent successfull CLI on this card -- why did I get so greedy?) (hard pull)
I (initially) chose NOT to apply for:
1. Advanta Business. As they seem to have tightened the screws (e.g., one can only BT to a *business* card from them and I did not have any at the AOR start).
2. AMEX (any). They seem to have gotten a lot less user-friendly lately, and their rewards were nothing to die for.
3. FNB Omaha. No rewards, double inquiries, account closures for "too many inquiries."
4. Host of others (by neglect, time constraints, limited scope of the AOR, etc.)
However, influenced by suggestions from from the "first-responders" (DaveHanson wasn't there to stop me
) I applied for five more cards, which included two AMEX and Advanta Business. These 5 applications are separated by a dashed line in my reports and I generally refer to them as "appendix".
Experian-based FICO just before the AOR was 775
TrueCredit FAKO Scores (TU EX EQ, I pull daily, but only show the numbers when they change):
02/13 730 759 769 (just before AOR)
02/14 719 749 769
02/15 717 745 769
02/16 714 743 769
02/17 712 743 766
02/20 699 743 766
02/27 697 743 766
03/02 705 743 766
03/03 702 743 764
03/05 732 752 764
03/08 732 752 769
03/09 731 752 769
03/12 729 749 757 (from here on I'll only post significant changes)
04/04 716 685 703 (not even half of large balances are reported yet)
04/07 716 678 714
04/22 730 (TU FICO via WAMU)
04/25 634 678 706
05/01 618 (TU FICO via WAMU -- quite a change from 10 days ago!)
05/04 668 679 716
05/22 668 676 729
06/01 681 679 729
06/01 666 (TU FICO via WAMU)
07/01 659 (TU FICO via WAMU)
08/01 649 (TU FICO via WAMU (11 inqs) -- I thought I've bumped all of these off back in May!)
08/29 682 687 732 (PM123 FAKO)
09/01 698 702 747 (PM123 FAKO, 15-16 points up due to BOA $30K balance being paid down)
09/01 688 (TU FICO via WAMU, 11 inqs)
09/02 698 711 747 (PM 123 FAKO, not sure why the jump on EX, maybe some inqs aged 6 mos.)
09/16 698 712 756 (PM 123 FAKO, not sure why the jump on EQ, balances more or less the same as on 09/01)
09/19 698 703 748 (PM 123 FAKO, not sure why the drop, balances and payments same as on 09/16)
10/04 699 696 758 (PM123 FAKO, reported balances are up by ~$4K on all 3 reports -- why did EQ go up?)
10/10 699 696 748 (PM123 FAKO)
10/18 694 696 741 (PM123 FAKO, $37K BOA balance reported, 1 TU inq. disappeared)
10/24 694 696 741 (1 more TU inq. disappeared, 9 left -- does no change in score prove that inqs over 6 mos. old don't matter much?)
10/01 688 (TU FICO via WAMU, 11 inqs)
10/25 694 696 741 (1 more TU inq. disappeared, 8 left -- TU score still does not move)
10/26 694 696 741 (1 more TU inq. disappeared, 7 left -- TU score does not budge)
10/29 694 696 741 (6 TU inqs. left -- TU score does not budge)
10/30 696 697 741 (5 TU inqs. left -- TU up by 2, EX up by one [due to what?])
11/01 678 (TU FICO via WAMU, 5 inqs., but reported balances went up from $70K+ to $90K+)
11/04 704 697 741 (3 TU inqs. left)
11/10 704 692 741 (2 TU inqs., EX is down 5 pts. -- gotta be CITI PP closing with $753 balance)
11/14 696 692 696 (1 TU inq., TU down perhaps b/c of CITI PP $753 balance reporting, nothing obvious changed on EQ, but a 45pts drop?!)
12/01 683 (TU FICO via WAMU, 0 inqs)
12/23 713 696 741 (I have no idea why EQ score behaves the way it does)
01/01 703 (TU BANKCARD FICO via WAMU, 0 inq)
01/02 695 685 741 (EX has finally figured out PNC/ELAN balance kinda lost in the transfer, but what's up with TU?!)
01/10 695 685 749 ($50K CL on AMEX SPG finally reached EQ?)
01/26 724 (TU when opening Wachovia Free Checking in branch)
01/26 695 685 749 (PM123, +1 TU inq from opening Wachovia Free Checking --> no change in score)
01/26 695 695 749 (PM123, not sure why EX is up 10 pts)
02/01 706 (TU FICO via WAMU, 1 inq)
02/03 711 695 749 (PM123, Chase reports $49K & $3K CLs across all 3 CRAs, not sure why TU is up ... does 1 inq make it go up?!)
02/15 711 703 747 (PM123, Chase reports $36K & $3K CLs, balances are $20.7K & $167)
03/01 711 (TU FICO via MAMU, 1 inq, debt $80-90K, open accounts 10, total accounts 15+)
03/07 777 719 749 (PM123, Chase $0 balance reported on TU and EX. TU skyrocketed b/c it does not count my ELAN/PNC $15K balance, so I must have crossed some util. threshold with them)
03/08 777 719 756 (PM123, EQ got Chase $0 balance reported too)
Who pulled what:
BARCLAYSBK ---------------------- 03/02/2007 --- Equifax [CC] Juniper -- why pull after denying?
BRCLYSBANKDE -------------------03/02/2007 --- TransUnion [CC] Juniper -- why pull after denying?
BANK OF AMERICA --------------- 02/28/2007 --- Experian [CC]
BK OF AMER ----------------------- 02/26/2007 --- TransUnion [CC]
AMEX --------------------------------- 02/16/2007 --- Experian [2xCC]
ADVANTA FINANCIAL CORP ---- 02/16/2007 --- Experian [CC]
BRCLYSBANKDE ------------------ 02/16/2007 --- TransUnion [CC] <- Juniper
STATEFARM ---------------------- 02/16/2007 --- Equifax
ST FARM BANK ------------------ 02/16/2007 --- TransUnion
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PUL BK CRCAR -------------------- 02/15/2007 --- TransUnion [CC] -- they only pulled after my fax with income verification
DISCOVER FINANCIAL SER ----- 02/13/2007 --- Experian [CC]
FIRST USA,NA ---------------------- 02/13/2007 --- Experian [CC] <- CHASE
FIRST USA,NA ---------------------- 02/13/2007 --- Experian [CLI] <- CHASE
BANK OF AMERICA --------------- 02/13/2007 --- Experian [2xCC]
ELAN FINANCIAL SERVICE ------ 02/13/2007 --- Experian [CC] <- PNC
WASH MUTUAL/PROVIDIAN ----- 02/13/2007 --- Experian [CC]
CITI ------------------------------------ 02/13/2007 --- TransUnion [2xCLI]
CITI ------------------------------------ 02/13/2007 --- TransUnion [CC]
CITI/CBSD --------------------------- 02/13/2007 --- TransUnion [CC] <- CITIBusiness CC?
CITI ------------------------------------ 02/13/2007 --- TransUnion [CC]
Observations:
1. Only BofA played it nice (2 same date application resulted in only one pull), others pulled like there's no tomorrow.
2. Almost no one pulled Equifax (I was hoping most pulls will be on Equifax, so that the creditors see a better view of me
, and then I fix TU and EQ scores with b*) ... but not all dreams come true. If anyone is keeping statistics, I now live in NY (I've heard which CRA is pulled depends on the state you're in), but 2 of the last 2.5 years I lived in IL, and during that time only 1 inq went to EQ, while all others were also either TU or EX).
3. From the dynamic of my FAKOs it does seem that each inquiry is a 2-point hit on the score ... except if it's State Farm pulling Equifax, when it's a 3-point hit.
Lessons (trying not to mention those that are mentioned many times in other threads):
1. With PULASKI BANK -- may want to have the income verification info handy and even fax it (501-661-7381) ahead of time. Despite a significant effort I found no way to talk to a live person from Pulaski before getting the card (which I did not end up getting).
2. WAMU phone and online(!) application works only during their business hours (their card was at the top of my list, but since my AOR commenced before they opened I actually did not get to them until after I've accumulated quite a bit of inquiries).
3. This is not definite, but by comparing my results to those of others with similar scores I tend to conclude that creditors do subtract your housing payments from your household income in deciding how large/small a CL to give you (maybe I was too upfront with them with my not so low rent
) ... perhaps, this is obvious, why else would they ask for it.
That's all of the info I have to share at this point in time. I can't say it was great (I was expecting higher CLs and more instant approvals, e.g., one from CHASE was a must -- I'm a long-time buddy of theirs
), but it's a start ... well, I should get the cards and with them a better assessment of the BT situation sometime next week (02/19-02/25). At that point I'll come back to better summarize the application phase as well as to ask for input on the BT harvesting phase (not that I don't have a plan, but additional info rarely hurts).