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After reading virtually every AOR thread (took me a month) at FWF, including SIS 34-page sticky, I jumped on the band wagon. My AOR was (well, I should say 'is', as I'm only done with phases 1 & 2: info gathering & applying) a fairly limited scope AOR. I wanted to minimize upfront expense (so far it's going to be 4 months of truecredit @11.99/mo. and some, hopefully, minimal BT fees). I did not apply for any cards with an annual fee or some steep requirements to get the bonuses. I did not get a PenFed VISA (esp. now, as its benefits are not as attractive as they used to be) ... basically I reached for a low-hanging fruit ... with the goals of getting cash and/or TY points rewards (not interested in air miles, hotel points, etc.) and as much as possible 0% BT money (with fees capped at $75 or less, including, obviously, no fee offers) preferably with easy access to it. I was also mindful of the fact that I may be shopping for a mortgage in 16 months or so ...

I absolutely have to say THANK YOU to the gurus (SIS, DaveHanson, mhesidence) as well as to many recent additions to the AOR club (asdf9876, jairocon, Hindustani, PugRanch, psychtobe, Isifhan) and many others whose posts have helped me understand the theory and the practice of AOR.

Just before the AOR I had 4 active cards and 20 closed ones (yes, I was young and stupid, and wanted to keep my credit card collection "neat and clean", free of old useless crap like Buy.com, Amazon.com and department store cards). The 4 active cards I had were:
1. CHASE Rewards (3% gas, 1% everything else monthly statement credit, my everyday card for "everything else") CL=$30000
2. CHASE Sony (signed up on 12/24/06 and have gotten the $150 bonus already, 0% BT till Nov'07, plan to use in phase 3 of the AOR) CL=$15000
3. CITI Diamond Rewards #1 (5% gas groceries, and drugs, 1% everything else in TY points -- my everyday groceries+gas card) CL=$12700
4. CITI Diamond Rewards #2 (5% gas groceries, and drugs, 1% everything else in TY points -- my oldest card from 1997) CL=$6100

My checking account is with CHASE. I also have ING, ED and HSBC online savings accounts + a couple of 401(k)s. Household income is at $100K/year, rent is $1900/mo.

I applied for (card name is the link to the actual application starting point, cards are listed in the order applied for; first 10 were applied early morning 02/13, last 5 -- around lunchtime on 02/16, those numbered in bold font were approved, regular font -- denied):
01. CITI PremierPass MC Non-Elite ($33 CardOffers + 5K points) --> deferred --> approved 02/16 (e-mail), card came 02/23 (CL=$6700, but this turned out to be "no pre-set spending limit" card)
02. CITI CITIBusiness MC ($10 CardOffers + 10K points) --> deferred --> approved, card came 02/20, CL=$40000
03. CITI Professional MC (15K points) --> approved, CL=$6000
04. WaMU VISA Platinum (targeted mail, free TU credit reports & score) --> approved, CL=$12000 (requested $29000 to checking on the appl. form)
05. Pulaski Gold VISA ($40 CardOffers) --> asked for income verification (faxed in, waiting ..) --> denied ("insufficient length of employment" -- I had 7yr8mo on my application)
06. PNC Select Rewards Platinum VISA --> deferred --> approved 02/14 with CL=$8000, called to (succesfully) increase CL to $20000
07. BofA Finacial Rewards VISA ($30 CardOffers) --> approved with CL=$10400 (requested $25000 transfer to VISA DEBIT card on appl.)
08. BofA NEA WorldPoint Platinum Plus VISA --> deferred (requested $25000 transfer to VISA DEBIT card on appl.) --> approved with CL=$26000 (need to be an NEA member in order to apply, see here)
09. Morgan Stanley Discover Gas ($40 CardOffers) --> approved, card came on 02/20 with CL=$6000
10. Chase Free Cash Rewards VISA (1K points) --> deferred, 02/19 showed in my Chase online account with CL=$10000
---------------------------------------------------------------------
11. State Farm Good Neighbor VISA --> deferred --> denied 03/04
12. Advanta Platinum Business MC --> instant denial (see exact phrasing down in the thread)
13. AMEX IN:NYC ($40 from CardOffers) --> deferred --> approved 02/20 in the identity verification call, CL=$2000 (subsequently increased to $24500).
14. AMEX Starwood Preferred Guest ($40 CardOffers, 10K+ Starwood points, convertable to FF miles) --> deferred --> approved, CL=$2500 (subsequently increased to $24500).
15. Juniper I Fly America VISA --> deferred (they've sent an e-mail telling they're going to request some addt-l info from me via snail mail -- how stupid is that?) --> denied (Excessive credit applications)
It took me 11-12 minutes per card (with printing out almost every page of the application process and not using RoboForm)

Below is the BT situation with each of the cards applied. All have 0% BTs, so I only indicate BT length [month], BT fee, BT fee cap, and the timeframe:
01. CITI PremierPass MC Non-Elite (12, 0%, $0, has to start within 12 mo.)
02. CITI CITIBusiness MC (12, 0%, $0, has to start within 12 mo.)
03. CITI Professional MC (12, 0%, $0, has to start within 12 mo.)
04. WAMU VISA Platinum (12, 3%, $75, until 03/01/08)
05. Pulaski Gold VISA (6, 0%, $0, has to start within 3 mo.)
06. PNC Select Rewards Platinum VISA (12, 0%, $0, first 12 billing cycles)
07. BofA Finacial Rewards VISA (6, 0%, $0, first 6 billing cycles)
08. BofA NEA WorldPoint Platinum Plus VISA (12, 2%, $30, first 12 billing cycles)
09. Morgan Stanley Discover Gas (12, 0%, $0, ends Mar'08 billing cycle)
10. Chase Free Cash Rewards VISA (3 or 12 if you qualify for Premier or Elite status [I got 12], 3%, $75, starts on applying)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
11. State Farm Good Neighbor VISA (12, 0%, $0, starts on applying)
12. Advanta Platinum Business MC (15, 3%, $50, starts on applying)
13. AMEX IN:NYC (6, 0%, $0, first 6 months of membership)
14. AMEX Starwood Preferred Guest (don't intend to BT, mostly for lower utilization and rewards)
15. Juniper I Fly America VISA (12, 3%, $50, first 12 months)


In addition to applying for new cards I:
1. Increased CL from $12700 to $25000 on CITI Diamond Preferred MC (hard pull)
2. Asked for, but FAILED to increase CL from $6100 to $20000 on my second CITI Diamond Preferred MC (no hard pull?)
3. Asked for, but FAILED to increase CL from $15000 to $25000 on CHASE Sony VISA (likely b/c I had a recent successfull CLI on this card -- why did I get so greedy?) (hard pull)

I (initially) chose NOT to apply for:
1. Advanta Business. As they seem to have tightened the screws (e.g., one can only BT to a *business* card from them and I did not have any at the AOR start).
2. AMEX (any). They seem to have gotten a lot less user-friendly lately, and their rewards were nothing to die for.
3. FNB Omaha. No rewards, double inquiries, account closures for "too many inquiries."
4. Host of others (by neglect, time constraints, limited scope of the AOR, etc.)
However, influenced by suggestions from from the "first-responders" (DaveHanson wasn't there to stop me ) I applied for five more cards, which included two AMEX and Advanta Business. These 5 applications are separated by a dashed line in my reports and I generally refer to them as "appendix".

Experian-based FICO just before the AOR was 775
TrueCredit FAKO Scores (TU EX EQ, I pull daily, but only show the numbers when they change):
02/13 730 759 769 (just before AOR)
02/14 719 749 769
02/15 717 745 769
02/16 714 743 769
02/17 712 743 766
02/20 699 743 766
02/27 697 743 766
03/02 705 743 766
03/03 702 743 764
03/05 732 752 764
03/08 732 752 769
03/09 731 752 769
03/12 729 749 757 (from here on I'll only post significant changes)
04/04 716 685 703 (not even half of large balances are reported yet)
04/07 716 678 714
04/22 730 (TU FICO via WAMU)
04/25 634 678 706
05/01 618 (TU FICO via WAMU -- quite a change from 10 days ago!)
05/04 668 679 716
05/22 668 676 729
06/01 681 679 729
06/01 666 (TU FICO via WAMU)
07/01 659 (TU FICO via WAMU)
08/01 649 (TU FICO via WAMU (11 inqs) -- I thought I've bumped all of these off back in May!)
08/29 682 687 732 (PM123 FAKO)
09/01 698 702 747 (PM123 FAKO, 15-16 points up due to BOA $30K balance being paid down)
09/01 688 (TU FICO via WAMU, 11 inqs)
09/02 698 711 747 (PM 123 FAKO, not sure why the jump on EX, maybe some inqs aged 6 mos.)
09/16 698 712 756 (PM 123 FAKO, not sure why the jump on EQ, balances more or less the same as on 09/01)
09/19 698 703 748 (PM 123 FAKO, not sure why the drop, balances and payments same as on 09/16)
10/04 699 696 758 (PM123 FAKO, reported balances are up by ~$4K on all 3 reports -- why did EQ go up?)
10/10 699 696 748 (PM123 FAKO)
10/18 694 696 741 (PM123 FAKO, $37K BOA balance reported, 1 TU inq. disappeared)
10/24 694 696 741 (1 more TU inq. disappeared, 9 left -- does no change in score prove that inqs over 6 mos. old don't matter much?)
10/01 688 (TU FICO via WAMU, 11 inqs)
10/25 694 696 741 (1 more TU inq. disappeared, 8 left -- TU score still does not move)
10/26 694 696 741 (1 more TU inq. disappeared, 7 left -- TU score does not budge)
10/29 694 696 741 (6 TU inqs. left -- TU score does not budge)
10/30 696 697 741 (5 TU inqs. left -- TU up by 2, EX up by one [due to what?])
11/01 678 (TU FICO via WAMU, 5 inqs., but reported balances went up from $70K+ to $90K+)
11/04 704 697 741 (3 TU inqs. left)
11/10 704 692 741 (2 TU inqs., EX is down 5 pts. -- gotta be CITI PP closing with $753 balance)
11/14 696 692 696 (1 TU inq., TU down perhaps b/c of CITI PP $753 balance reporting, nothing obvious changed on EQ, but a 45pts drop?!)
12/01 683 (TU FICO via WAMU, 0 inqs)
12/23 713 696 741 (I have no idea why EQ score behaves the way it does)
01/01 703 (TU BANKCARD FICO via WAMU, 0 inq)
01/02 695 685 741 (EX has finally figured out PNC/ELAN balance kinda lost in the transfer, but what's up with TU?!)
01/10 695 685 749 ($50K CL on AMEX SPG finally reached EQ?)
01/26 724 (TU when opening Wachovia Free Checking in branch)
01/26 695 685 749 (PM123, +1 TU inq from opening Wachovia Free Checking --> no change in score)
01/26 695 695 749 (PM123, not sure why EX is up 10 pts)
02/01 706 (TU FICO via WAMU, 1 inq)
02/03 711 695 749 (PM123, Chase reports $49K & $3K CLs across all 3 CRAs, not sure why TU is up ... does 1 inq make it go up?!)
02/15 711 703 747 (PM123, Chase reports $36K & $3K CLs, balances are $20.7K & $167)
03/01 711 (TU FICO via MAMU, 1 inq, debt $80-90K, open accounts 10, total accounts 15+)
03/07 777 719 749 (PM123, Chase $0 balance reported on TU and EX. TU skyrocketed b/c it does not count my ELAN/PNC $15K balance, so I must have crossed some util. threshold with them)
03/08 777 719 756 (PM123, EQ got Chase $0 balance reported too)

Who pulled what:
BARCLAYSBK ---------------------- 03/02/2007 --- Equifax [CC] Juniper -- why pull after denying?
BRCLYSBANKDE -------------------03/02/2007 --- TransUnion [CC] Juniper -- why pull after denying?
BANK OF AMERICA --------------- 02/28/2007 --- Experian [CC]
BK OF AMER ----------------------- 02/26/2007 --- TransUnion [CC]
AMEX --------------------------------- 02/16/2007 --- Experian [2xCC]
ADVANTA FINANCIAL CORP ---- 02/16/2007 --- Experian [CC]
BRCLYSBANKDE ------------------ 02/16/2007 --- TransUnion [CC] <- Juniper
STATEFARM ---------------------- 02/16/2007 --- Equifax
ST FARM BANK ------------------ 02/16/2007 --- TransUnion
------------------------------------------------------------------
PUL BK CRCAR -------------------- 02/15/2007 --- TransUnion [CC] -- they only pulled after my fax with income verification
DISCOVER FINANCIAL SER ----- 02/13/2007 --- Experian [CC]
FIRST USA,NA ---------------------- 02/13/2007 --- Experian [CC] <- CHASE
FIRST USA,NA ---------------------- 02/13/2007 --- Experian [CLI] <- CHASE
BANK OF AMERICA --------------- 02/13/2007 --- Experian [2xCC]
ELAN FINANCIAL SERVICE ------ 02/13/2007 --- Experian [CC] <- PNC
WASH MUTUAL/PROVIDIAN ----- 02/13/2007 --- Experian [CC]
CITI ------------------------------------ 02/13/2007 --- TransUnion [2xCLI]
CITI ------------------------------------ 02/13/2007 --- TransUnion [CC]
CITI/CBSD --------------------------- 02/13/2007 --- TransUnion [CC] <- CITIBusiness CC?
CITI ------------------------------------ 02/13/2007 --- TransUnion [CC]

Observations:
1. Only BofA played it nice (2 same date application resulted in only one pull), others pulled like there's no tomorrow.
2. Almost no one pulled Equifax (I was hoping most pulls will be on Equifax, so that the creditors see a better view of me , and then I fix TU and EQ scores with b*) ... but not all dreams come true. If anyone is keeping statistics, I now live in NY (I've heard which CRA is pulled depends on the state you're in), but 2 of the last 2.5 years I lived in IL, and during that time only 1 inq went to EQ, while all others were also either TU or EX).
3. From the dynamic of my FAKOs it does seem that each inquiry is a 2-point hit on the score ... except if it's State Farm pulling Equifax, when it's a 3-point hit.

Lessons (trying not to mention those that are mentioned many times in other threads):
1. With PULASKI BANK -- may want to have the income verification info handy and even fax it (501-661-7381) ahead of time. Despite a significant effort I found no way to talk to a live person from Pulaski before getting the card (which I did not end up getting).
2. WAMU phone and online(!) application works only during their business hours (their card was at the top of my list, but since my AOR commenced before they opened I actually did not get to them until after I've accumulated quite a bit of inquiries).
3. This is not definite, but by comparing my results to those of others with similar scores I tend to conclude that creditors do subtract your housing payments from your household income in deciding how large/small a CL to give you (maybe I was too upfront with them with my not so low rent ) ... perhaps, this is obvious, why else would they ask for it.

That's all of the info I have to share at this point in time. I can't say it was great (I was expecting higher CLs and more instant approvals, e.g., one from CHASE was a must -- I'm a long-time buddy of theirs ), but it's a start ... well, I should get the cards and with them a better assessment of the BT situation sometime next week (02/19-02/25). At that point I'll come back to better summarize the application phase as well as to ask for input on the BT harvesting phase (not that I don't have a plan, but additional info rarely hurts).



Another great card is from Juniper HERE with 12mo 0%/ 3% max $50 fee/ $15 statement credit + a free magazine subscription (who doesn't like airplanes). For me it was net $35 to get well over $10K of BT cash. I filed for it two days after the bulk of my AOR because I found it late; was instantly approved for one of my largest CL's. I think they pulled TU, and nobody else really did.

I don't know why so many people love that Pulaski card, with all the grief they put you through for 6 mo of 0% BT. Alternatives are the two other BofA cards, Pet Rewards and Money Return which recently had 6mo 0%, no BT fee and also have cardoffers cash attached.

I did get the Advanta Business a couple of weeks ago and had no problem getting them to BT to my checking account, even though it was really a brokerage account...the guy was a little confused with all the numbers, but it went through. I said I was really concerned about a BT fee for all the balances I wanted to pay off and it was his suggestion to put it into my checking account so I could pay my bills. I like the card because it is 15 months at 0% and a decent CL that remains off my reported utilization.

Don't despair about the few instant approvals. I was worried that I only got about three or four out of 20. A couple weeks later I had received 18 cards with $188,000 in new credit...


Nice writeup. Low-hanging fruit is good.

Deferrals are a pain, but you'll probably turn out pretty well.

I think you might have been able to get 10k TY points for the Premier Pass card, and 15k for the CitiBusiness card, if you applied somewhere other than cardoffers. Valued at 1 cent a piece, this would have been slightly more optimal. No big deal.

I think you should apply for an AMEX, just because. They're pretty good with initial credit limit granting. For instance I have their Hilton card, and even though I rarely use it, it's still a great card with no fee and a big hunk of CL that helps my credit scores.

For BT harvesting, you're going to want to reallocate away from your existing Chase and Citi cards to whatever card has the 0% offer. Make that established relationship work for you! What are you planning on doing with the money?


I like AMEX Starwood. Not sure if they are still giving out 10k Starwood pts after 1st purchase but the 10k starwood point, you can redeem $100 Amazon GC.


Just got an approval e-mail from CITI for PremierPass (but they did not specify the CL) -- OP updated accordingly. Also, added a link to this thread from SIS megathread.


Thank you guys for advice and encouragement. In hindsight I should have applied for 1-2 AMEX cards, even if I don't try to get BT money from them -- just to lower the overall utilization... but I really had a hard time finding one combining no annual fee, decent 0% BT terms and above average reward program/bonus all in one package. Well, I'll look into this some more, my current FAKO scores (esp. EQ) may still back up a successfull application. Has anyone ever tried to call them with "I want to apply for this card, but only if you pull CR from EQ"? [ my situation ].

To answer markkundinger's question: I plan to fund Roth IRA for self and mrs. for 2006 and 2007 (that's 16K), the "leftovers" (I hope there will be a lot) will go to EmigrantDirect or HSBC (yes I have more than adequate cushion in HSBC in case I need to pay the IRA money back). I don't have a HELOC (don't have "H"), so initial destination for BT money is my checking account (I guess portion of the money will need to go through CITI or PULASKI credit cards first).

Why PULASKI? (NorCalSci) -- it is true their application process is royal PITA with all verification and NO live person to talk to until they make a decision (believe me, I tried). But PULASKI has 6 mo. no fee 0% BT with flexible starting terms -- theirs may be a good "laundering" card (if I get it).


cyberkost said: Thank you guys for advice and encouragement. In hindsight I should have applied for 1-2 AMEX cards, even if I don't try to get BT money from them -- just to lower the overall utilization... but I really had a hard time finding one combining no annual fee, decent 0% BT terms and above average reward program/bonus all in one package. Well, I'll look into this some more, my current FAKO scores (esp. EQ) may still back up a successfull application. Has anyone ever tried to call them with "I want to apply for this card, but only if you pull CR from EQ"? [ my situation ].Even if you can't get decent BT terms, never underestimate the benefits of lower utilization (and I know you didn't - you mentioned it in this post). My AMEX Blue is really good for nothing these days. Since I have a bevy of various rewards cards...it's one of the odd cards out and almost never gets used. However, thanks to an almost $40K limit, it serves my credit report well.


You still have time to add an account-o-rama in there. I am not sure if these are still active, but some that come to mind are Fidelity, NetBank, Sharebuilder, Chase checking, BofA checking/savings, citi checking/savings and a bunch of the other small banks.


You should just go app for an AMEX today! I thin kthe In NYC is 6mo 0% theres a database outhtere that shows what people get pulled like AMEX is the only place that pulls EQ for me so it could be same for you if so you should be able to get one for lower utilization or more aor money


Go for a couple of AMEX cards just on the count of AMEX's website being REALLY generous with the CLI these days.

You could potentially get 2 - 4 cards between business and personal and jack their CL up to 25K in a matter of seconds over the web. That is a HUGE jump in the utilization percentage category.

The AMEX simply cash business card gives 5% back on gas, the AMEX Hilton card gives you 10K bonus Hilton points just for signing up. Blue cash has a 0% BT offer. Plus it never hurts to have more creditors listed as trusting you with debt on your CR.


iSpecK said: Go for a couple of AMEX cards just on the count of AMEX's website being REALLY generous with the CLI these days.

You could potentially get 2 - 4 cards between business and personal and jack their CL up to 25K in a matter of seconds over the web. That is a HUGE jump in the utilization percentage category.

The AMEX simply cash business card gives 5% back on gas, the AMEX Hilton card gives you 10K bonus Hilton points just for signing up. Blue cash has a 0% BT offer. Plus it never hurts to have more creditors listed as trusting you with debt on your CR.

And as a new customer its unlikely that he would have to worry about an FR for a while.


Just called PNC (800-364-9648) to find out the status of my app. Turns out I'm approved and the $8000 CL card is in the mail as of 02/14 (Wed).

I'll be off for a while (applying for AMEX, Advanta Business [now that I have CITI business to transfer to if all else fails], and Juniper per NorCalSci suggestion -- my dad is a big airplane fan). Sorry for not providing itermediate summaries, but I like to only total credit lines, bonuses, points once I know which ones I'm getting and which ones not.


Xeon852 said: iSpecK said: Go for a couple of AMEX cards just on the count of AMEX's website being REALLY generous with the CLI these days.

You could potentially get 2 - 4 cards between business and personal and jack their CL up to 25K in a matter of seconds over the web. That is a HUGE jump in the utilization percentage category.

The AMEX simply cash business card gives 5% back on gas, the AMEX Hilton card gives you 10K bonus Hilton points just for signing up. Blue cash has a 0% BT offer. Plus it never hurts to have more creditors listed as trusting you with debt on your CR.

And as a new customer its unlikely that he would have to worry about an FR for a while.


Depending on when he applys, useage and such it could trgger a FR, other people hve had FR triggered when calling in to activate I belive. But yeah go throw in an AMEX card just to have some more diversity among banks there SPG/HH cards can be useful even if you travel very little.


Glad you're throwing in a few more apps. The new banks might see a couple of brand-spanking new accounts being reported, but the hit to your score won't be fatal, as you don't have any balances showing up yet.

Now... as for funding the IRA... when the BTs end, how are you going to pay them off? You're not going to generate $16k in incentive and arbitrage income. And you're not going to make a withdrawal from the IRA. Do you have enough real money to fund your IRAs now?

This is potentially a dangerous situation. While it's not necessary, I found it extremely useful to segregate my AOR money in accounts totally seperate from my regular transactions. Plus, it allowed me to open up new accounts and get all the bonuses.


markkundinger said: Glad you're throwing in a few more apps. The new banks might see a couple of brand-spanking new accounts being reported, but the hit to your score won't be fatal, as you don't have any balances showing up yet.

Now... as for funding the IRA... when the BTs end, how are you going to pay them off? You're not going to generate $16k in incentive and arbitrage income. And you're not going to make a withdrawal from the IRA. Do you have enough real money to fund your IRAs now?

This is potentially a dangerous situation. While it's not necessary, I found it extremely useful to segregate my AOR money in accounts totally seperate from my regular transactions. Plus, it allowed me to open up new accounts and get all the bonuses.


Mark, I'm VERY mindful of being able to repay ALL OF AOR money in a matter of two days. I mentioned in my post regarding the intended use of the money that I have a multi-$10K cushion sitting in HSBC (currently at 6% APR). BUT, THANKS for being on a lookout, b/c some folks might not exercise their best judgement (me included) when there are large amounts of $$ involved.


cyberkost said: Just called PNC (800-364-9648) to find out the status of my app. Turns out I'm approved and the $8000 CL card is in the mail as of 02/14 (Wed).

Thanks for laying this out so clearly. I look forward to your updates.

I got the same $8k CL from PNC when i first applied, then the card arrived - with a $24k limit!

One more vote for AMEX. I got a $24k CL on the IN:NYC card, with a $40 bonus for CardOffers, no-fee BT for 6 months. (They pulled EXP for me.)

Another card to consider, if you're doing round 2, is the State Farm Good Neighbor VISA (link). No-fee BT for 9 months. I got a generous $25k limit from them, too, though it was the 2nd card i applied for. (They pulled TU.)

Good luck with the harvesting!


NorCalSci said: Another great card is from Juniper HERE with 12mo 0%/ 3% max $50 fee/ $15 statement credit + a free magazine subscription (who doesn't like airplanes). For me it was net $35 to get well over $10K of BT cash. I filed for it two days after the bulk of my AOR because I found it late; was instantly approved for one of my largest CL's. I think they pulled TU, and nobody else really did.
NorCalSci - Good find on this card! I did a mini-AOR 3 weeks ago but couldn't resist applying for this after I saw your post. I got instant approval and a nice CL. I just checked TrueCredit and they pulled TU. Thanks again!


You guys make AORs sound so cool ... still increasing the inventory of investment properties right now or I'd give it a try! I really enjoy the posts of others' successes, though!


Excellent AOR thread OP.

I have one OT comment - for 1900/mo you should buy, not rent.
Did Advanta grill you on "the nature of your business"?


bterwilliger said: Excellent AOR thread OP.

I have one OT comment - for 1900/mo you should buy, not rent.
Did Advanta grill you on "the nature of your business"?


No Advanta did not grill me much ... they just instantly denied me:
* Excessive # of recent consumer inquiries
* Excessive # of recently opened personal account
* Too few open finance accounts
* Insufficient # of personal credit experiences

They hit me where it hurts the most -- Experian (have 6 hard pulls there, all dated 3 days ago) and no bumpage to help in the future ... it's kinda unfortunate that they look beyond the credit score (which was still at decent 745 at the time). Oh, well ... life goes on. I did apply to StateFarm Good Neighbor (thanks WashWest), AMEX IN:NYC & Starwood (thanks everybody), and Juniper I Fly America (thanks NorCalSci). I got deferrals on all of these ... Looks like my AOR is getting an Appendix, I'll update the OP accordingly.

As far as paying 1900 rent ... believe it, it's not such a bad deal for Westchester County, NY. I don't want to buy though, as I don't see myself staying here for the next 3-4 years ... I know I need to settle, but ... well, it's getting off-topic.


can you let us know which creditors let you ACH to checking account, BT to a debit card, or had to use the BT convenience checks on?


I asked this in another thread also..

when you make a payment to get a rewards - ie, 10K Thank you point after your first purchase. Can you pay off the purchase before the statement date and then do the BT before the statement?

example, you want the 10K TY point, you buy $10 worth of crap. You make a payment for $10. You then BT 10,000 from the card. When the statement comes, Will the $10 towards the $10 purchase you initially or will it come off the BT?


tomtnt said: Can you pay off the purchase before the statement date and then do the BT before the statement?

Short answer, yes. Long answer, just make sure you payment posts before the BT.


cyberkost said:
I absolutely have to say THANK YOU to the gurus (SIS, DaveHanson, mhesidence)...


Holy AOR, I'm a guru.


As far as paying 1900 rent ... believe it, it's not such a bad deal for Westchester County, NY. I don't want to buy though, as I don't see myself staying here for the next 3-4 years ... I know I need to settle, but ... well, it's getting off-topic.

I live in NYC and also make $100K/yr and pay $1900 a month in rent - it is VERY reasonable especially if you live alone.


Squeezer99 said: can you let us know which creditors let you ACH to checking account, BT to a debit card, or had to use the BT convenience checks on?

My plan is to contribute as much useful information as possible -- I got a lot from FWF, so it's only fair to give some back.


mhesidence said: cyberkost said:
I absolutely have to say THANK YOU to the gurus (SIS, DaveHanson, mhesidence)...


Holy AOR, I'm a guru.


You ARE! You just proved it again by answering people's questions!

One other thing: I've seen requests for .xls people use in their AORs. I do have one (and I can probably share it if someone tells me how to erase the value of the "Last Saved By" field). However, I think there is a lot of benefit in creating one yourself (from scratch that is), as you'll pick the cards YOU like, go through all T&Cs (to make sure everything matches YOUR intentions for the AOR), arrange cards in YOUR order of preference, etc.


I don't know if would work or not, but you might try uploading your xls into "Google Docs and Spreadsheets" and then make it publicly available.


PugRanch said: I don't know if would work or not, but you might try uploading your xls into "Google Docs and Spreadsheets" and then make it publicly available.

PugRanch, thank you for the suggestion. I just tried, but Google blanked out a couple of columns and lost the (clickable) URLs ... in other words Excel's HYPERLINK function does not seem to work in Google Spreadsheets. There is not really much more info in that .xls beyond what's already included in the OP. The cash advance terms is the only thing that comes to mind (and I was not very careful about collecting it).


Just took a look at the results of today's TrueCredit pull ... Saw this

STATEFARM 02/16/2007 Equifax

and thought to myself "Finally, somebody is looking at Equifax (that had the highest score to begin with and has not been hit through the entire phase 2)!". But then I saw this:

ST FARM BANK 02/16/2007 TransUnion

What the hell?! I know some issuers have T&C worded such that by applying you authorize them to do multiple pulls, but here we have 2 pulls from different "organizations" ... Well, there are two scenarios:

1. They looked at my far from stellar TU report/score first and did not like it too much ... but still they wanted to give me that Good Neighbor card with huge CL and easy BT money, so they tried to look elsewhere and Equifax report qualified me for the Super Premier Elite 25 karat Diamond Platinum status.

2. The issuer (ST FARM BANK, I believe) pulled TU, but then STATE FARM (the insurence agency) decided to get on a free ride and pulled EQ. Unfortunately, this is probably what happened (as ST FARM BANK stands earlier on the inq chronology list).

One way or another, for two pulls they better send me that card and BT to checking acct. right away .


State Farm might just have different names with the different bureaus. Some companies have multiple accounts even within the same bureau.


.. just updated the OP with the current approvals/denials/CLs/etc. and the FAKO score chronology (TU started to take a dive).


1 week after ... 6 cards came in the mail today (OP is updated accordingly -- cards that came in have their numbers in bold). CITI pleasantly surprised me with a $40K limit on the business card. PNC did NOT send me a Valentine's gift like it did for WashWest101 -- the CL on the card stayed at the inital $8K (his got magically uplifted to $24K from initial $8K). Discover was also a bit disappointing with $6K.

Also got a call from AMEX regarding IN:NYC application (basically to verify that I'm a real person). Got approved during the call (CL not specified).


cyberkost said: 1 week after ... 6 cards came in the mail today (OP is updated accordingly -- cards that came in have their numbers in bold). CITI pleasantly surprised me with a $40K limit on the business card. PNC did NOT send me a Valentine's gift like it did for WashWest101 -- the CL on the card stayed at the inital $8K (his got magically uplifted to $24K from initial $8K)

Nice CL on the CitiBusiness. Wow.

That's too bad about PNC. See WalStMonky's post in this thread:

WalStMonky said: Just got our convenience checks today, PNC Visa was approved at the time of application on 1/17. FWIW they were very nice in quadrupling the initial credit limit to 20k on request.


cyberkost said: Just took a look at the results of today's TrueCredit pull ... Saw this

STATEFARM 02/16/2007 Equifax

and thought to myself "Finally, somebody is looking at Equifax (that had the highest score to begin with and has not been hit through the entire phase 2)!". But then I saw this:

ST FARM BANK 02/16/2007 TransUnion

What the hell?!


Look on the bright side, at least they didn't nail Experian. If you applied for a Crapital One card they'd have poked all 3!


Chase rewards card came in today (deferred approval, CL=$10K, nothing stellar it terms of rewards -- applied only to boost my overall CHASE CL and reallocation). One other thing, following WashWest101 and WalStMonky advice/experience with PNC card (thank you guys!), I called PNC before going to work to ask to increase the CL (I was initially granted only $8K). CSR asked me what number would make me happy and I said $20K (perhaps even somewhat conservatively given those before me were able to jump from $8K to $24K). When I checked the card online shortly before lunch it was already showing $20K CL (I will check if a hard pull was involved tomorrow morning -- I hope not, since the CSR did not ask for my full SSN). BTW, has anyone succesfully added PNC credit card to Yodlee Money Center?


cyberkost said: Chase rewards card came in today (deferred approval, CL=$10K, nothing stellar it terms of rewards -- applied only to boost my overall CHASE CL and reallocation). One other thing, following WashWest101 and WalStMonky advice/experience with PNC card (thank you guys!), I called PNC before going to work to ask to increase the CL (I was initially granted only $8K). CSR asked me what number would make me happy and I said $20K (perhaps even somewhat conservatively given those before me were able to jump from $8K to $24K). When I checked the card online shortly before lunch it was already showing $20K CL (I will check if a hard pull was involved tomorrow morning -- I hope not, since the CSR did not ask for my full SSN). BTW, has anyone succesfully added PNC credit card to Yodlee Money Center?

Add PNC card as an Elan credit card.


Side note, I got three inquiries from State Farm, 2 on the day I applied pulling transunion and Equifax, then one two weeks later pulling experian. I would say State Farm is not a bank you want to do AOR with any longer.


SleepyNyte, thanks for the advice on PNC card & Yodlee MC. I actually did try that prior to crying out for help, but it did not work ... maybe my PNC online access was "too fresh" to work with Yodlee or something of that kind (this is what happened to me with e*trade banking). I'll give it some time and try again.

As far as staying clear from State Farm ... let's see what BT'ing with them is going to be like (or, at least, what the CL is going to be, assuming my deferral turns into approval at some point). If they do 3 inqs and offer nothing in exchange -- it'll be lose-lose for me ... but than we should also take a look at how they've treated other people, to make a more statistically solid conclusion.


Skipping 106 Messages...

I thought it'd be natural to conclude this AOR thread with the credit profile summary once all of the balances are paid down (and reported to the CRAs).

When I started my stats were:
02/13/2007 730 759 769 (inqs: 0 2 1 or smth. close to that, total personal CL $63.8K)
Today, when I'm "back to normal", my stats are:
06/20/2008 789 773 793 (inqs: 0 11 0, total personal CL $254.5K)

I did not hit the 800 points mark I was hoping to hit, but this, perhaps, is largely due to no mortgages/installment loans/etc. showing on my credit reports (and, of course, some of the cards being only 16 month old).




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