HSBC delays deposits

I initiated transfer from my etrade account to HSBC savings. I did not use the HSBC's transfer system but used etrade's transfer system. Etrade shows money being sent on tuesday but HSBC does not show the money until friday.

However the transfer from Etrade to anyother account has no such lag. If money is taken out on tuesday, it appears at the ohter bank on tuesday.

Keep in mind I did not use the HSBC's cashedge based system where cashedge eats your money for two days, but used the etarde system.

I wonder what happens if someone sends them a check . do they cash it a sit on the money for few days before depositing it ?

Yeah, this was actually covered in the post which came out when HSBC offered up 6% checking. I am still not sure if I will get the interest for all that wasted time. I remember called up eLoan when I had the money in their account and told them that the deposit was delayed 3 days even though the cash was out of my savings account, but they assured me all three days were covered with interest. HSBC took the cash out the same day but it was not credited to my account for 5 full days. Amazing. Never called because I already think I know the answer, they are not going to give me interest until it posted, but what am I going to do about it now.

I figure the same thing will happen when you take your money out, a long wait, which is why I am taking it out May 1st and putting it back into my eLoan. Use um for the interest as long as you can and then vote with your money who you think is the better bank.

PorStaker said: Yeah, this was actually covered in the post which came out when HSBC offered up 6% checking. I am still not sure if I will get the interest for all that wasted time. I remember called up eLoan when I had the money in their account and told them that the deposit was delayed 3 days even though the cash was out of my savings account, but they assured me all three days were covered with interest. HSBC took the cash out the same day but it was not credited to my account for 5 full days. Amazing. Never called because I already think I know the answer, they are not going to give me interest until it posted, but what am I going to do about it now.

I figure the same thing will happen when you take your money out, a long wait, which is why I am taking it out May 1st and putting it back into my eLoan. Use um for the interest as long as you can and then vote with your money who you think is the better bank.

I e-mailed HSBC about this and received the helpful response that THEY don't earn interest on the money until its credited. I didn't think banks earned interest on money but I do know that THEY had the use of my money for several days when I was not being credited with interest since it was taken out of the linked account.

I resolved not to worry about it and to make up for the lost days by increasing my deposit balance to $200,000.00 but once that promotion ends, I am going to keep it all at amtrustdirect because the money is credited immediately to earn interest.

You raise an interesting point. If you transfer $25000 from a 5.25% APY savings account to a 6% APY HSBC savings account on 3/29 via CashEdge, the money appears in the HSBC account on 4/2 with the 2-business day limbo (3 calendar days). You lose $10.51. Assuming HSBC pays interest from the day of receipt (4/2), the interest margin for April is $14.15 (6% APY vs. 5.25% APY, 29 days). If the funds are withdrawn via CashEdge (with the presumed 2-business day limbo) at the end of the promo period, 2-3 more calendar days of interest are sacrificed on the round-turn. Obviously the numbers would differ for other scenarios, but here you appear to lose money, right?

my guess about HSBC's slow transfers is due to their agreement with Cashedge (their ACH processor). There's probably something like, cashedge could charge them $x per transaction, or let cashedge hold the transferring $ for 3 days so they can pocket interest on them. and HSBC decided the latter option is what they want to do.

HSBC is slowest compare to my other checking/saving accounts. but all my transfers are done with in T+3 frame.

I thought I read they're are no fees to pull or push money out of this account. I know pulling money in is free. but someone mention to transfer it out cost money? is this right?

manish22 said: I initiated transfer from my etrade account to HSBC savings. I did not use the HSBC's transfer system but used etrade's transfer system. Etrade shows money being sent on tuesday but HSBC does not show the money until friday.

However the transfer from Etrade to anyother account has no such lag. If money is taken out on tuesday, it appears at the ohter bank on tuesday.

Keep in mind I did not use the HSBC's cashedge based system where cashedge eats your money for two days, but used the etarde system.

I wonder what happens if someone sends them a check . do they cash it a sit on the money for few days before depositing it ?

i deposited a large check when they started the 6% promo. I deposited the check in an HSBC ATM on a monday or tuesday morning. It showed up in my account three days later.

Anakin

Frankly, the website gives the impression that you are losing several days interest and in fact, you are. They tell you that the transfer has been initiated and will be credited to your hsbc account on the 3rd business day. Meanwhile, the funds are deducted from your account on the first business day and heaven forbid its a huge transfer made on a Thursday, you lose the money Friday, earn no interest through the weekend....geez, its no wonder they can afford to pay 6% on their promotion. Half the people probably opened their accounts mid-week or otherwise transferred money mid-week and the bank gets the float.

If they don't fix that, once the promotion ends there is no reason to use them instead of EmigrantDirect. Or Amtrustdirect (which has a .21% higher yield at 5.36). I bank everywhere and find that Amtrustdirect works quite well and credits the money quite quickly. I bank somewhere else that credits ach deposits immediately, but the yield is no good. Guess you have to choose your poison.

I had only one day lost interest this way.

I pushed from ED to HSBC Free Checking, then phoned HSBC next day to transfer to Online Savings even before I could view the transation at HSBC online. They did the internal tranfer immediately. I checked my statement and interest calcs OK(6%on new funds).

Coming out, I think I'll write an HSBC check, deposit to local CU where I get immediate credit, transfer that via ACH pull back to ED, and do internal accounts transfer at HSBC to cover the check. Don't think I'll lose much to float this way, but a little due to differenc in local CU rates.

Prentiss said: DavidScubadiver said: Frankly, the website gives the impression that you are losing several days interest and in fact, you are. They tell you that the transfer has been initiated and will be credited to your hsbc account on the 3rd business day. Meanwhile, the funds are deducted from your account on the first business day and heaven forbid its a huge transfer made on a Thursday, you lose the money Friday, earn no interest through the weekend....geez, its no wonder they can afford to pay 6% on their promotion. Half the people probably opened their accounts mid-week or otherwise transferred money mid-week and the bank gets the float.

If they don't fix that, once the promotion ends there is no reason to use them instead of EmigrantDirect. Or Amtrustdirect (which has a .21% higher yield at 5.36). I bank everywhere and find that Amtrustdirect works quite well and credits the money quite quickly. I bank somewhere else that credits ach deposits immediately, but the yield is no good. Guess you have to choose your poison.

The float only brings the rate down a very tiny fraction of a percent. 5.97% vs 6% if you signed up with HSBC since day 1 of the promo for 3 month period.



Ajulius, quit continuing to spread disinformation. The cashedge float of 4 days total minimum changes the HSBC rate to 5.65% in the best case scenario, and 5.05% in the worst case scenario (8 days lost).

I have been publicizing this from day one - but it appears that people are just now waking up to what I was warning about.

Prentiss said:
For those who do suffer an interest loss, the net loss is .06% maximum that will come from using Cashedge spread out over an entire year. .06% spreads are MEANINGLESS. Think about this: Is it worth worrying about $56 on a 100,000 investment? Absolutely NOT! Time = Money, the time wasted to worry about .06% would cost you well over $56.

Actually, for me, I lose those 3 or 4 days of interest every month because I am parking short term money equal to $100,000 every month. So, it comes to a lot more money as I am losing 3 days out of approximately 30 or so, or 10% of my available days for earning interest.

So, yes, its worth changing banks especially since it takes no effort to move money to a bank that credits the interest sooner.

HSBC Bank USA is moving two top executive jobs from Buffalo to New York, as newly appointed chief executive Paul J. Lawrence reshapes the management team.

HSBC is listening to its customers AND shareholders. As I predicted Mr. Lawrence didn't get to do any changes yet since he was rushed in quickly however changes are in progress and the wheels are in motion.

David Dew, senior executive vice president and chief administrative officer, was named chief operating officer. This is good news indeed.

Also here is an internal memo sent to HSBC employees on this change. Note: I do NOT work for HSBC.

Dear Colleagues,

Following my appointment as CEO of the Bank in addition to my responsibilities as Head of CIBM, I have taken the opportunity to review the U.S. Bank operations and would like to further integrate our structure across lines to maximize our opportunity for growth and success in the U.S. market. To that end, the following realignments are effective immediately:

Chris Davies, Senior Executive Vice President – Head of Commercial Banking (CMB), will assume responsibility for Global Transaction Banking (GTB). Michael Gallagher, Executive Vice President – Head of GTB, Payments and Cash Management and Bank Notes will report to Chris.

Kevin ******, Group General Manager – Head of PFS, will assume responsibility for HSBC Investments (INV) and Stephen Baker, Executive Vice President INV, will report to Kevin.

David Dew, Senior Executive Vice President, will be named Chief Operating Officer (COO) and will assume responsibility for Operations in all businesses. In addition, David will be my officer in charge (OIC) in my absence. David Kotheimer, Senior Executive Vice President – Business Performance, Martyn Brush, Managing Director and COO – CIBM and INV, Mike Ebbs, Managing Director and CIO, and Philip Musacchio, Managing Director and COO – GPB will report to David. All of the above positions will now be headquarted out of New York City.

In addition, our Finance functions will be moved from its present location in Buffalo and integrated and managed from New York City. Gerard Mattia, will be named Senior Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer (CFO) – HUSI. John McKenna will work to effectively transition with Gerard while pursuing alternative roles within the Group. Further information with regard to the reporting relationships within Finance will be announced in due course.

After 18 years with the company, Robert Butcher, Senior Executive Vice President – Chief Risk Officer, has announced his intention to retire effective May 1. We thank Bob for his years of service and wish him a happy, healthy retirement. George Wendler, Senior Executive Vice President, will be named Chief Risk Officer for HUSI and will assume responsibility for Risk in addition to his current responsibility for the Credit function.

Although Risk and Finance now will be managed from New York City, our commitment to Buffalo, NY as a center of operations remains.

These executives will maintain their functional reporting lines as appropriate and all new appointments are pending board approval following which there will be more detailed functional announcements. A chart outlining my direct reports is attached. Please join me in congratulating these executives on their new roles.

We will establish a U.S. Bank Executive Committee (EXCO) replacing the bank’s Senior Management Committee (SMC). I will chair EXCO and the following individuals will be members:

Janet Burak
Chris Davies
David Dew
Jeanne Ebersole
Gerard Mattia
Kevin ******
Marlon Young
George Wendler

I appreciate that the last several months has been a time of change for the bank. As I said during the recent road show, the overall strategy and direction for the bank remains unchanged. Now is the time for us all to focus on execution and achieving our goals in 2007.

Yours sincerely,

Paul J. Lawrence
President and Chief Executive Officer – HUSI and HBUS
Head of CIBM, North America

The firm made a good move with Lawrence. Now as for depositors we shall see what happens but as we speak changes are underway. My gutt says changes will be very positive.

I find it funny Prentiss claimed in "How Do I find a banker thread" I am not Ajulius and I have never banked or had an account with HSBC in my life yet he got HSBC people calling him all time to discuess problems he having with his accounts at HSBC.

Now to my point Ajulius your numbers are wrong for the following reasons.

Promo lasted 90 days your effective yeild on a 6% APY which is false your really not getting 6% APY because to get 6% Apy you compound a rate of 5.85% for a whole year which is the rate listed for this promo. But I going to use 6% rate anyways. Over 90 days your muliplier would be 1.48 vs 1.38 for 84 days(best case with HSBC). On $100K the interest is $1480 vs $1380 and the differnce is 7.3% and if you lost 8 days total round trip then your multiplier would be 1.34 and your interest would be $1340 and the difference would be 10.1%.

So I dont understand how Ajulius can claim the difference in effective yeild is .05% as the multiplier clearly shows it 10-14 basis points over 90 day period and once to you convert that rate back to 365 day formula the that would put your effective APY either at 5.562%(if you lost 3 days each way) or 5.394%(if you lost 4 days each way).

Now if we take either one of the above correctly adjusted number and do a blended rate over 1 year assuming HSBC does not lower rates below 5.05% then you get a blended rate based on 6 days lost interest of 5.178% and based on 8 days 5.135%. You could have just left your money at Amboy or in an BOA AAA Account and done about the same over the promo period and would have ended up being much better off over the whole year assuming Amboy and BOA dont lower there rates and HSBC does not have another promo.

So the difference between Amboy and BOA over the promo period ends up netting you nothing if you loose 4 days each way and ends up netting you an effective yeild over the 90 days of 30 basis points at best case.

Prentiss said: Noone knows what HSBC's rate will be POST april 30th 2007 so speculation on this point is fruitless. However if one did bank at HSBC and transferred funds consistently, then one would experience the loss each time they transferred. But if they made one initial transfer the loss would be MINIMAL. Depends on the usage of this account.

.....


When HSBC is used as the main bank for everything the ACH system is meaningless. For others however if they make alot of transfers, then HSBC does NOT sound like the bank for them if they cant use another ACH system from their other bank to transfer back and forth.


I dont understand the point of your worthless post that did not address 1 point in my post. My assumtions were you made 1 transfer in and 1 out. That you made the transfer the day promo was annouced which was Jan 29 and you made your tranfer out on May 1. So you had your money earning 6% for the full promo period of 90 days except you lost 3-4 days before the promo started and ended. You still lost alot more than 0.05% which you claimed in 3 of your post was the loss from ACH transfer in and out.

I still dont understand how you can claim HSBC for local people is best option as both BOA and HSBC used collected balance to calculate interest. They dont pay interest on local deposits till they collect the funds. So your deposit can really end up having a longer hold than 3 days which means ACHing or Depositing in HSBC makes no difference and there is still a loss of interest. Most of the larger bank uses collected balance to calculate interest while most of the smaller banks use average balance. We get into this 1X in master HSBC thread. I posted the terms of service from HSBC showed you were in there own terms they state they only pay interest on collected balances.

Wachovia also uses the collected balance for interest calculations. Therefore, I usually do one of two things.

1) Cash out my check at the bank and immediately deposit the cash into the account.
2) Deposit the check in one of my other accounts and immediately transfer the funds to the recipient account.

Either way results in an immediate collected balance to pay interest one. I usually pick #1 for smaller checks (like under 5k) and #2 for larger checks.

BTW - #2 works b/c the first account ends up having a negative collected balance and the destination acct a fully collected balance. To date, this has not caused any issues for me.

dolmar said: Prentiss said: HSBC uses the monthly compounding method however gives a higher rate than other LOCAL BANKS as of today with the 6% promo. After it expires, we dont know what they will offer.

Man I know you know better and understand 100% what I am saying except you like to scew and answer everything in way that makes your agruement look better and avoid answering or acknowledging facts that might hurt your arguement. The fact they use monthly coupounding method to calculate the interest rate has no barring if they pay interest on daily average balance or daily collected balance.

I showed you last time in HSBC terms of service where they clearly state interest is only earned on your collected balance. Most of the large banks uses this method like another posted stated Wachovia does the same thing so does BOA.

Citibank on the other hand pays interest starting on the next bussiness day all deposit are recieved.


NOTE:

Ask your branch for its "cut-off time."
For interest bearing checking products, interest begins to accrue no later than the business day the Bank receives credit for deposit of noncash items.
For savings accounts, interest begins to accrue on the business day the Bank makes funds available in your account.
For CDs, interest begins to accrue on the business day you deposit noncash items.


Do you even know what means? Till HSBC gets money on all checks you deposit you dont collect any interest if you deposit them into a checking account. If you deposit them into savings accounts you earn no interest while thoses funds have a hold on them. I dont understand why you are even quoting stuff that agree with everything I said but stating you disagree with what I said.

You have to BE KIDDING ME. Citibank offers 4.75% interest, HSBC is 6% new money and 5.05% old money.

I quote as I posted "For savings accounts, interest begins to accrue on the business day the Bank makes funds available in your account."

I am asking for anyone who has had hold times on this account with a Smart Package or better WHEN ACCOUNT WAS OPENED for LONGER THAN 30 DAYS with HSBC when depositing funds into online savings FROM AN HSBC ATM since I have never EVER experienced any before. I don't recall any during the 1st 30 days as well however quite frankly.

If I deposit on a Friday the funds will be credited and will start to receive interest on Tuesday at the latest.

dolmar said: Prentiss said: If I deposit on a Friday the funds will be credited and will start to receive interest on Tuesday at the latest.

Thank you just agree with me again and and proved my point. For all new deposits then you are collecting an interest rate of 5.05% for 26 days vs 29 days at 4.75% on the first 30 days. So your effective yeild on new deposits at HSBC for the first 30 days is 4.343% when you factor in the loss of 4 days vs Citibank with the loss of 1 day on the fist 30 days currently pays 4.56%. I never claimed Citibank was best place to keep money just used Citibank as an example to show Citibank uses Average balance interest calculations vs HSBC, BOA and Wachovia use a Collected Balance calculation.

If your keeping long term savings deposits at HSBC sorry then you are not very bright as there are many places that between 20-40 basis points more than HSBC with local access like BOA because with a place that payings interest on "Collected Balance" you are only taking a big hit for the first 30 days. So HSBC for long term cash except durning this promo stinks and for a transaction savings account is not very good either.

I am willing to be there are better choices than Citibank at many smaller and reginal banks for transaction savings account who pay a higher rate and used "Average Dailey balance" to compute interest earned vs way most of the larger banks are moving towards "Average collected balance" which is more benificial for the bank as banks trade credit amoung each other for the most part so they end up gaining the float while the check clears vs you gain the float in an "Average Daily Balance" calculation.

But Again I thank you for continuing to prove my point. Please fell free to make more posts Ajulius that clearly shows how HSBC stacks all the cards in there favor. While I agree most of the larger banks do same thing and some even pay lower rate than HSBC some of the smaller banks do not and some do have high yeild options too.

As per Citibank on the e-savings product: Deposits are subject to Citibank's standard funds availability delays.

As per HSBC on the Online savings product: For savings accounts, interest begins to accrue on the business day the Bank makes funds available in your account.

If I made a deposit with Citibank on Friday evening AFTER 6PM, my funds would NOT be credited till Monday assuming they have same business day crediting on e-savings. With HSBC it will be credited on Tuesday. That is just one day of lost interest, not 3 lost days The rate spread as of today is GREATER than .30% due to New Money Promotion. HOWEVER after the new money promo is up, again, it is fruitless to say that the rate will stay at 5.05% because we do NOT know that yet. One day of lost interest vs a higher .30% rate, would stay at HSBC between HSBC and Citibank.

Also remember this: If one has money in a bank and adds money gradually, the RATE is MORE IMPORTANT than the delay time on new funds since you have MORE CASH in the BANK than new cash being put in, so you will do better with the HIGHEST RATE. Delay times between banks like Citibank AND HSBC still make the HIGHER RATE more important.

Even if you have $100 in the bank and add $100 all the time, you would still do better with the HIGHEST RATE FYI because your funds will compound AT THE HIGHER RATE. Rates compound on TOTAL funds. Compounding is king. Not lost funds due to delay times.

Think about this:

If you lose a day of interest or even a few days interest per deposit you are losing a fraction of a percent each time, while the total funds are EARNING the HIGHER rate.

So take $100 and a small fractional of a percent loss, and then you add another $100. You lost a fraction of a percent on each deposit, but on your $200 you get the HIGHER rate by .30% lets say. The compounding will BE GREATER than any loss occured. So one should GET THE HIGHEST RATE, not the one with the lowest fund delay time.

dolmar said: Man I know you know better. But thank you again for agreeing with me some more I find I funny.

If standard holds apply at both places and deposits are made at both places on monday or at the same time. Do you just not grasp the concept that Citibank or any bank who uses average daily balance vs HSBC who uses daily collected balances is different? Forget the interest rates or holds periods. If you deposits a check Friday durning during bussiness hours at HSBC and hold is released on Tuesday that is 3 business days and it means you start to collect interest on Wednesay ie first full day you have money in the account. If you deposit money on Monday at HSBC it will not start to pay interest till Thursday vs Citibank will start to pay interest right away or no latter than the next bussiness day no matter if you had a hold placed or if the money was uncollected. That to me is 3 day difference. This hold true for all banks who used "Daily Balance" Vs "Daily Collected Balance"

I have seen people on here claim there local banks places 10-15 day hold when they deposit large checks for $20K +. If you deposit a check which is subject to hold at ANY BANK WHO USED AVERAGE DAILY BALANCE you still collecting interest while there is a hold on thoses funds vs HSBC or any bank who uses "Average Collect Balances" pays 0 while there a hold because they use average collected balance.

Do you just not grasp that concept?

That is another reason I prefer sweep checking accounts over normal checking accounts as sweep checking accounts pay interest on all funds as long as there is no holds on the funds which my accounts are never subject to holds. As long as you get no holds all you cash is sweep into a brokage account to be invested in a Money Market Fund of your choice. So the fact I have a negitive collected balance at BOA on my account there is irrelevent as I still collecting interest on my funds.

For interest bearing checking products, interest begins to accrue no later than the business day the Bank receives credit for deposit of noncash items.
For savings accounts, interest begins to accrue on the business day the Bank makes funds available in your account.

Total compounding is king, highest rate is what you WANT. Read above.

We already had this posting in this thread:

deposited a large check when they started the 6% promo. I deposited the check in an HSBC ATM on a monday or tuesday morning. It showed up in my account three days later.

Anakin

So 3 days lost interest in this specific instance. HOWEVER LETS ASSUME TOTAL rate was 5.05% vs 4.75%. Assuming 3 days lost interest on each large deposit, thats a fraction of a percent vs .30% on the total amount. Higher RATE trumps crediting of interest even with a 3 day delay.

So between Citibank and HSBC, HSBC's higher rate trumps Citibank even with a lower fund delay in place. Compounding is WHAT YOU WANT. The funds turn into MORE money AFTER time with compounding where you will gain MORE than the lost interest back. Right now its 6% with some lost interest potentially vs 4.75% no lost interest till April 30th 2007. No contest. Even at 5.05% vs 4.75% would still go for the higher RATE even if there are some days of lost interest.

dolmar said: Man argueing with you is arueing with the wall. What part of any bank who uses "Daily balance" vs "Daily Collected Balance" is better for monthly deposits or short term savings account do you not understand? I cited Citibank only because they are only Large Bank I know who still used "Daily Balance" vs "Daily Collect Balance" as most of the larger banks have switched to "Daily Collect Balance" as it is in there favor.

For the 100X time I not comparing Citibank to HSBC I am comparing any bank who uses "Daily balance" vs "Daily Collected Balance". Over the long run you are correct higher rate is better. But HSBC has not been rate leader except for a couple of promo period. You keep were one who used to say. I deposit money into HSBC then move it to Amboy. Well do you understand most of that money you were moving to Amboy was new money which means while you were waiting for the holds etc to be lifted you were collecting 0 vs with any bank who uses "Daily Balance" calculation you would have collect some money. To me something is better than 0 and considering we both know once this promo is over HSBC will not be rate leader as there rate will go back to 5.05% and you will sending your money back to Amboy direct.

Personally I pefer something over nothing while I am waiting to transfer money from my local bank to higher yeilding online savings accounts.

I do NOT rate flip. I use a local bank with branch locations where I need them as well as a high rate linked savings account to checking. I used to use Lydian Private Bank but it was a pain as I had to move funds back and forth to my local account.

As to who will be the rate leader is irrelevant unless its a full 3/4 of a percent and that is unlikely.

Since my deposit issue of which I complained to HSBC over, I didnt call back HSBC. The person called back quite a few times and so I called back HSBC to respond just to end the calls going forward since it wasn't that big deal at the time.

Spoke to the Executive offices, I called back, she requested more info on the account, I told her it was no big deal just that they lost a cash deposit which was triplemarked but it was corrected.

Then she tells me they noticed a problem at the branch where ATM online savings accounts should be credited by next day. In any case, there is a new management team in place and they want to keep the money in their coffers so hopefully the banking experience goes up from here. Been following HSBC's moves and they have reshuffled even more positions, also a huge positive is that HSBC is headquartered in New York state so its more subject to the laws at the State level as well. Not sure exactly what she meant by because of me she noticed that funds werent being deposited by same day but as long as they treat me right all is fine and I have her number if I have any future issues.

I passed an HSBC branch under construction, turns out they finally started constructing it after months now which IMHO completes their branch locations for me.