Jumped in the BT pool with both feet and found a rock

I wonder how much trouble I'm in for ...

I just finished a mini-AOR and went all out with 0% BT at over 95% on 12 cards with total utilization over 50%. One of my last rejection letters mentioned a public record which was never there before. It turns out some old 2004 small claims for $300 that I lost and paid right away got flagged as unpaid and experian just found it. Long story short I just got it changed from judgment to paid/satisfied but it's still there.

MyFico has me at 659, but no mention of public record on equifax and some BT $ (120K) hasn't posted yet. They calculate me at 54% util now -- which doesn't make sense with the numbers they list, but who knows. Experian 639 with public record, but without the 120K.

I'm afraid this public record will push me over some limit with the lenders and I'll start to see adverse actions.

What should I do now? I think that the pervailing wisdom is to pay some of the BTs down and drop the the util %, but they're all good for 6-12 months and fees are paid (and HSBC 6% is good for another month)

I've recently added myself as AU on my wife's cards and even my dad's 1973 AMEX line. Would more AUs help?

Do CCs get public record info with a soft pull? (which I assume they do monthly or so).
Could there be any advantage to being proactive with chase or BofA and call their customer retention before they see the new credit reports?

Isn't 80% the mark that you should only pass with extreme caution and knowledge of what you're doing?

Getting the paid public record off of your report should be your first priority. After that, get your utilizations down to a more reasonable mark. You could try being proactive with the companies, but you're probably going to get denied until that record is off of your credit report.

EDIT: Added more wisdom.

I just finished a mini-AOR and went all out with 0% BT at over 95% on 12 cards

There is nothing mini about that.

Why 95% on 12 different cards?

Bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered.

My rule is 89% on any individual card and 50% overall...

The only time I ever broke the 89% rule Chase lowered the CL on one of my cards on me.

maddybeagle said: Good luck with the judgement...It doesnt matter that it was paid...it still stays on your report...try to dispute but dont count on it....I have a small claims court judgement on my CR from 2000 and have done several AOR's and tons of credit from the major credit card issuers and they dont seem to consider it a derogatory like a collection, charge off, etc....check out credit boards for my info.

Yeah, you utilization are kinda out there....good luck with that, too...

thanks
I did check creditboards, but their emphasis is more on collecion/charge offs and I couldn't find anything like your experience which is what I was looking for.

Some of the British/Australian sites say that you can have a claim removed if it was paid within a month of the judgment, but I guess that doesn't apply to US.

LustfortheMoment said: devildoc, I nominate you as poster child of the month for the AOR/BT crowd. You do them proud!!!!!!!
Running total at 0% between me and DW is just over $530K

Since when is 17k a laughable about? How is it that Lust is so easy to hate?

Hey, if one of the "genius" AOR/BTers here actually made $17K/year in earnings using their brain to construct a diverse portfolio, I MIGHT be impressed...............but I'd still urge him/her to keep his day job. Feeling "satisfied" with being a mechanical arbitrage player is akin to a monkey feeling enthralled with low-lying fruit...........

devildoc said: What should I do now?1. Pay down ALL your lines to at least 89%, before each of their cycles closes next. Do NOT delay. This will (1) get you below a primary utilization level per card (90%), (2) get you to or almost too a key overall utilization level (50%), and (3) show creditors that you are not near BK or overtapped, since you're making well beyond the minimum payments.

I can't stress this enough. Doesn't matter if you've done this for 100 years before at 99.9% utilization...the risk/benefit calculation here is an absolute no-brainer. Really.

2. Watch the credit monitoring services for the judgment to appear. Immediately upon its doing so, correct and/or attempt a dispute. You need time for the creditors to see your payments before that judgment gets you flagged and freaks them out. If there is some small way in which the judgement is reported incorrectly, that's enough to dispute on a technicality.

3. Add more old, big lines if possible via AUs.They will help average age and utilization %s, and you want those now.


LustfortheMoment said, Feeling "satisfied" with being a mechanical arbitrage player is akin to a monkey feeling enthralled with low-lying fruitWhere did OP--or anyone else who does investing via prop-rate credit, for that matter--say they were "satisfied" making only their investing proceeds?

Just saw today that you mentioned your own entre into BT investing late last year. Does that mean you're "satisfied" with your earnings alone? No fair person would assume that about you...why would you do so about them?

At least you haven't jumped it head-first - broken feet are much easier to mend then smashed brain

What all others said - your utilization is WAY too high! Drop it below 90% on each of the cards ASAP. Dispute the judgement if you can. Just a datapoint - your Experian score is similar to what I had on TU (due to high utilization - although not nearly as high as yours), and Providian took adverse action by reducing CL on one of the cards from about $10k to under $500.

Be prepared for account closures/restrictions. You will probably be able to keep the 0% rate until expiration if you agree to no new charges and accounts closed at the end. I'd probably agree to that, pay off the 0% to low balances a couple of months before the promos end, and then apply for CCs from different issuers as those low balances report (but the accounts aren't closed yet). Then, once you pay them off, call the CCs and request the accounts to be closed, so the record shows "closed by customer request", and not by "lender"

As others have already written, being over 90% on individual lines and 50% aggregate puts you in potential adverse action range. In my AOR I got some credit line reduction from Chase with both > and < 90% utilization on some cards, and around 50% total utilization. (I find those reductions to be acceptable collateral damage, though)

Has that judgement always been on your Experian report? If those lenders that pulled Experian already knew about the judgement when approving, it may not increase your risk of adverse action more than anything else. It's the expanding debt profile that could be a problem.

DaveHanson said: LustfortheMoment said, Feeling "satisfied" with being a mechanical arbitrage player is akin to a monkey feeling enthralled with low-lying fruitWhere did OP--or anyone else who does investing via prop-rate credit, for that matter--say they were "satisfied" making only their investing proceeds?

Just saw today that you mentioned your own entre into BT investing late last year. Does that mean you're "satisfied" with your earnings alone? No fair person would assume that about you...why would you do so about them?

I have no problem with making fun of the peanuts (relative to actual employment) that the average FWer makes from BT investing. (I personally don't agree, as I actually enjoy the process.)

However, LustForTheMoment loses credibility by exalting credit card rewards. I didn't realize she actually started a thread bragging about the peanuts one "earns" from credit card rewards. To me, that is pure hypocrisy, and it's just flat out sad that she can't seem to see the connection.

-L

Maybe Lust is of the belief that the more arbitrage is conducted, the more sure it is that opportunities will be quashed. Or, perhaps more likely, she enjoys trolling.

I have no problem with making fun of the peanuts (relative to actual employment) that the average FWer makes from BT investing. (I personally don't agree, as I actually enjoy the process.)

If you're going to make fun of $17,000 then we should change this to the good humor forum because I don't believe there are any current deal threads which can provide more profit.

I guess the, "Don't light $50,000 in cash on fire, I just saved you $50,000" thread might.

devildoc said: $120K is what has not posted yet. Total is about $530K and utilization is closer to 99% on those linesI still don't see how that means you're leaving $40K on the table...you'll need to spell this out more clearly.

But even if it IS right, that's a SMALL price to pay. You want to be in this game years from now...geting lines cut or closed will curtail your ability to do that, perhaps massively.

Senturon said: I'm going to be one of those who points out the obvious.

You didn't really jump in and 'find a rock', you were told there was a rock right there but chose to jump in that spot anyways.
The rock was the public record that showed up just after I got all the BTs done.

DaveH knows better than most how to keep the BT funds rolling year after year, if you plan on ever doing this again take his advice and lose the extra 40K in cash to make your issuers happy.

I have been successful for many years ignoring that sage advice, but with my new "potentially negative" credit report entry, I do plan on finally taking the advice and paying down now, before the CCs post.
I was hoping to get additional advice as to what else to do, but that seems to be all there is to do.

devildoc said:
I have been successful for many years ignoring that sage advice

I could probably make 50,000 in "tax-free" income for many years, but the longer I do it, the more likely it is the IRS will come after me...

Try to remember the long-term effects that DH has been talking about. I get the feeling you're gonna be wanting to play this game for many many more years;

Making only 15-16k of income this year from BT's as opposed to 17k will help you to make 16k in income off of BT's next year as opposed to making ZERO income from BT's next year.

devildoc said: I get the idea that the sustainability is key, and as such I have just paid everyone down to 89% or so.Very , very wise move. Keeping several balances above 50% is a calculated risk; over 90% is asking for trouble. I don't want to jinx myself or anyone else, but I have been doing this year after year at 98% utilization on multiple lines with minimal adverse actions. It is my newfound public record that has me worried.You've mentioned this several times, and I believe you, but it's tough to evaluate what can be inferred from this without a more complete picture of exactly what you did (number and size of previous maxed lines, what are "minimal" adverse actions, what did the rest of your profile look like, etc.)

You also need to keep in mind opportunity cost. You WILL be more likely to get line increases and special offers on CURRENT lines now that you've made significant payments AND brought your utilization down. Who knows what opportunities have NOT come your way here in the past because you were trying to eek out those last few percentage points of BT money.

LustfortheMoment said: I could probably make 50,000 in "tax-free" income for many years

Say What??? JusRelax, perhaps you've found a 5% MMF which doesn't send a 1099 to the IRS. If so, pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase share the wealth. It's such a shame that the AOR/BT set has to pay taxes like the rest of us. Of course REAL investors with long term capital gains pay only 15% tax

Whoops, guess my point didn't come across... I was talking about under the table income (i.e. - undeclared rent income, services, etc.)

Sorry about the confusion.

DaveHanson said: You've mentioned this several times, and I believe you, but it's tough to evaluate what can be inferred from this without a more complete picture of exactly what you did (number and size of previous maxed lines, what are "minimal" adverse actions, what did the rest of your profile look like, etc.)

You also need to keep in mind opportunity cost. You WILL be more likely to get line increases and special offers on CURRENT lines now that you've made significant payments AND brought your utilization down. Who knows what opportunities have NOT come your way here in the past because you were trying to eek out those last few percentage points of BT money.

The most serious adverse actions were Citi and GM and HSBC closing lines I hadn't used for more than a year (total CL<20K)
BofA closed 3 out of 6 lines that I left with $500 CL after consolidating.

I have slowly been increasing BT totals for years with new offers that have come in despite high utilization of over 100K with Chase and BofA and 20-50K on others, up to 10-12 lines at a time.
I have noticed that I have reached some sort of limit with most CCs and no more CLIs have been approved for a long time.
As for my profile, not sure what you mean, but HHI is high and up to now now derogatories. Never late, some CCs report as 400 months old (AU)

Never waste your time arguing with a clown. They're arrogant prima donnas who think they're the stars of the show. Of course everyone but them knows that people go to the circus to see the monkeys.