lhendricks92's AOR v2.0 and subsequent rolling thunder...

This will be my 2nd AOR after a mini-AOR back in October.

Background:

Age: 37
HHI: 110K (but net worth $1 mil+)
Mortgage: 4th year of a 15 year note. Balance: $225K, $2500/month
No other debt except credit cards.

Existing Lines:

Personal

Card Name / Age (Years) / Balance / Credit Limit / Utilization
AMEX Blue Cash (AU - wife's card) / 8.2 / $5,000 / $80,000 / 6%
USAA AMEX / 0.7 / $38,000 / $50,000 / 76%
FIA Fidelity Visa (AU) / 0.7 / $0 / $39,900 / 0%
USAA MC #1 / 14.8 / $0 / $30,000 / 0%
Barclays SeaMiles / 0.6 / $0 / $24,000 / 0%
Citi Diamond AMEX / 0.7 / $0 / $20,000 / 0%
BofA WorldPoints MC / 0.6 / $0 / $24,000 / 0%
USAA MC #2 / 9.8 / $0 / $17,000 / 0%
Citi Professional / 0.7 / $0 / $14,000 / 0%
Discover More / 0.7 / $0 / $9,500 / 0%
WFNNB Store Card / 14.0 / $0 / $500 / 0%

summary / 4.7 / $43,000 / $308,400 / 14%

Business

AMEX FreedomPass Biz / 0.6 / $0 / $25,000 / 0%

Notes:

- Our family's everyday spender is the AMEX Blue Cash. It was actually opened in April 2006, but AMEX is reporting April 1999. Bank error in your favor! I'll take it.
FIA Fidelity has MBNA billpay. I've been using it to pay other cards and my mortgage. I pay it off before every statement close.
- The $0 balances on the two Citi cards are only temporary. I still have 6 months left on no fee, 0% BTs on both cards. I'll crank them back up to 49% after submitting this AOR.
- As recently as March 2006, I had only 2 USAA credit cards with a combined CL of around $30K. Thanks FWF!

Goals:

- Primary goal: BT arbitrage.
- Bonuses are secondary but always welcome.
- Concentrate on business apps as much as possible.

Proposed Applications:

Business

Name / Notes
Advanta Business / 0%, 15 months, $50 bt fee
AMEX Starwood Business / 10K starpoints after first purchase, $60 cardselection.com
Amex Simply Cash / 0%, 12 months on purchases, $60 cardselection.com
BofA Business Power Rewards / 0%, 9 months, "No fees for BTs" on promo page (not T&C)!
BofA Business QuickBooks / to increase BofA business CL
Chase Business Mariott / 15K Mariott Points, free night, first year free
Chase Business Rebate Visa / 0%, 12 months, $75 fee (might fund citi savings)
Citi Business MC / 0%, 12 months, no bt fee, $150 gift card after first purchase (use "before you go" trick)
Citi Business Premier Pass / 0%, 12 months, no bt fee, $150 gift card, first year free
M&T Bank - Business Card / 0%, 6 months, no bt fee
National City Visa Business / 0%, 6 months, no bt fee

Personal

Amex in:nyc / 0%, 6 months, no bt fee, $30 cardselection.com
Barclays National Parks / 0%, 12 months, $50 fee
BofA (FIA) Schwab / to increase BofA personal CL; $50 statement credit
BofA Platinum Plus MC - no longer valid!! / 0%, 12 months, no bt fee
BofA NFL Extra Points / 0%, 12 months, $75 fee; replaces expired deal above
Chase Sony Visa / 0%, 12 months, $75 fee, $100 credit after first purchase
Chase Marriott / 20K Mariott Points; free night; first year free
Chase Priority Club / to increase Chase CL (Visa Signature), $20 credit, first year free
Citi Driver's Edge / 0%, 12 months, no bt fee (use in 6 months), $25 cardselection.com
GE Money MC / 0%, 12 months, $75 fee
HSBC Platinum MC / 0%, 12 months, $99 fee
HSBC Orchard 2% / received invitation for 2% Cash Back card
Infibank Principal Visa / 0%, 12 months, $75 fee, don't like a lot of inquiries, like bank/brokerage statements for CLIs
National City Visa / 0%, 6 months, no bt fee
PenFed Rewards Visa / 1.25% Cash Back, generous CLIs
RBS CustomCash / 0% 10 months, $60 fee (most likely Platinum, not CustomCash)
WAMU ESPN Visa / 0%, 6 months, no bt fee, FICO, Big CLs?

The Plan:

- Wait for $0 balances to report on Citi, Barclays, and Discover cards. Should happen this week. Check FICO.
- Prior to AOR, request soft pull CLIs on existing lines.
- Exploit all business BTs to 89% utilization as these do not report on personal credit reports.
- Reallocate as necessary and exploit personal BTs at 49%. If I get a particularly juicy CL, maybe go to 89% on one card. Overall utilization will definitely stay below 50%.
- Might create a giant AMEX CL and use it simply for utilization. Don't want the dreaded FR.
- All BT funds will reside in my USAA Performance First account, current APY 5.18%. Yes, I know I could do better, but I've decided to draw the line at rate chasing and opening a bazillion savings accounts. All of the 1099s and the extra few dollars aren't worth the hassle to me. (Frankly, I have to fight my natural desire for simplification to play the AOR game.)

AOR Launched morning of Tuesday, June 5th.

Results (roughly in order applied for)

Name / Status / CL / Notes
Advanta Business / instantly approved / $12,500 /
BofA Business Power Rewards / approved / $25,000
BofA FIA NFL / instantly approved / $5,000 /
Chase Business Rebate Visa / approved / $10,000 / now $50K after CLI request and realloc from Sony and Biz Marriott
Citi Business PP / approved / $7,500 / now $44K after realloc from Professional, new CitiBusiness MC, and Dividend MC (after conversion from Diamond AMEX). statement of assets to increase CL unsuccessful.
National City Visa Business / approved / $15,000 / initially 9k; had to fax signature (added a statement of assets)
WAMU ESPN Visa / instantly approved / $7,000 / no dice on CLI
Chase Sony Visa / instantly approved / $14,000 / (temp CL was $5k) now at $1K - reallocated to Biz Rebate Visa
Infibank Principal Visa / approved / $15,0000 / CLI rejected. didn't want to see docs
PenFed Rewards Visa / approved / $20,000 / initially 12k; sent bank and brokerage statements
AMEX Simply Cash / approved / $25,000 (but existing FreedomPass card lowered from $25k to $500)
Chase Business Mariott / approved / $15,000 / now at 1k - reallocated to Biz Rebate Visa
M&T Bank - Business Card / approved / $25,000 / YES! and they can ACH to a checking account (now they're saying no)
AMEX in:nyc / instantly approved / $24,000 / initially 3k, hit the online AMEX crack pipe
RBS Platinum / denied / too many new accounts & inqs
AMEX Starwood Business / approved / $3,000
Citi Business MC / approved / $7,500 /
Barclays National Parks / approved / $23,500 / initially declined. spoke to credit dept and reallocated from SeaMiles
Chase Personal Marriott / denied / too many new accounts in last 12 months
Citi Driver's Edge / approved / $500 / rep said i've reached my max exposure with citi. fair enough.
FIA Schwab / approved / $6,000
GE Money MC / denied / too many inqs in last 6 months
National City Visa / approved / $10,000 /
Merrick Hooters / approved / $18,750 / applied June 6th - i was pretty sure they would pull TU - just trying to improve utilization, plus, hey, it's a HOOTERS card!!!
Bank Atlantic Business Card / approved / $20,000 / applied June 29th! pulled TU, which was ideal. 15 months at 0% a on biz card! yes!!!

Number of personal apps: 14
Number of business apps: 11

Number accepted: 22 (11 personal, 11 business)
Number rejected: 3 (all personal)

Scores

Date - EQ FICO, Credit Secure EX, CS EQ, CS TU, notes
6/4/07 - 795, 796, 784, 808, day before launch
8/24/07 - 770 (balances of 77k and all new cards reporting)

New Inquiries

Equifax took a beating, but I expected that. I'll use True Credit and Credit Secure for bumpage.

grouped by date, CRA, and order of pull

6/5/07
AMEX EX --- only one pull from AMEX
BANK OF AMERICA EX
FIA CSNA EX
ADVANTA EQ
FIA CSNA EQ
CBUSA/CBSD EQ --- citibusiness, i believe
CHASE EQ --- looks like 1 pull for chase for 2 biz and 1 personal
FIRST USA EQ ---- Sony Visa
INFIBANK EQ
PENTAGON EQ
RBS EQ --- These guys pulled later in the day; hence the rejection
GEMB/GEMON EQ
CITI EQ
CITI EQ
ELANFINSVC EQ --- M&T Bank (notice these guys weren't too worried about inqs)
BRCLYSBANKDE TU
WASHMTL/PROV TU
Nat City TU

6/6/07
NCBCARDSER EQ --- I bet this is Nat City Business
NCBK-NCCS TU --- Nat City, why a second hit?
Hooters TU --- hOOters! my wife will be so proud!

6/29/07
BRCLYSBANKDE TU --- Bank Atlantic Biz card

Total: 23 (EX - 4, EQ - 13, TU - 6)

BT Plans

Advanta - $11,500 check mailed to USAA savings
Barclays Bank Atlantic Business MC - $19,000 to where? CSR seemed to think I will get blank BT checks with the card.
Barclays National Parks - $21,000, Used blank BT check that came with the card.
BofA NFL - $30,000 ACH'd to USAA checking and transferred to savings
BofA Biz - $22,500 to unused USAA MC. Credit balance transferred to savings after 7 day hold.
Citi Biz PP - $29,500 check received and deposited. After converting Diamond AMEX to a Dividend MC, reallocated another 12k to this card, and requested a second BT check for 14k. CL on Biz PP now $44K.
Chase Biz - $33,300 check deposited. Used BT check that came with the card.
Infibank Principal Visa - $7,500 to wife's Citi card with no fee 0% offers. will ask for another BT from citi when Pricipal's check clears. technique commonly referred to as "BT laundering."
M&T Bank Biz - $23,000, successfully requested BT on M&T's website using USAA savings account #!
National City Visa - $5,000 to Fidelity Gold AMEX. Swept to my Fidelity cash account when the card's statement closed.
National City Business Visa - $14,000 to Fidelity Visa. this is my billpay card, so it happens to have a substantial balance at the moment. saves me having from having to make a cash payment this month.

Updates

6/6/07 - I'll start using new posts for updates and use the OP for summaries.

6/5/07 - launched on Tuesday morning about 8 AM Eastern. only a few instant approvals, but i suspected that would happen. i was able to talk to a BofA credit specialist about my personal apps, and i've already reallocated and ACH'd a $30K BT check to USAA checking. New CLs: Old BofA WorldPoints MC: $500; Schwab, $1000; NFL Jets: $33,500. saweet!

spoke to BofA business credit specialist - approved for $25K - BT of $22,500 on its way to a $0 balance USAA MasterCard. confirmed there are no balance transfer fees with this card.

Rumor has it that the RBS Customcash application link still ends up in you getting the regular RBS platinum card. If you're just maxing out the BT, this doesn't really matter much.

Are you going to keep the balance on the USAA card? Any idea what your credit scores are like at the moment?

FAKOs from Credit Secure are around 780-790, even with balances on the Citi and Discover cards reporting. Haven't checked a true FICO in awhile.

The USAA balance is at 0% until November.

As far as the RBS, if I get the Platinum, no biggie. Thought I'd give the Custom Cash a shot.

I might just blow off all the minor players anyway. Any thoughts on the trade off I described here?

"i recommend applying for PENFED 1st. This credit report cna be used for other products (to increase total credit) for 90 days. They are awesome but do not like "pyramiding debt" This is a good card (s) to have"

penfed...interesting. i've read (here or at credit boards) that people have had no trouble getting this card AFTER a million inquiries. are you saying that because they will reuse your pull for 90 days, i should go ahead and give them the best possible snapshot and then apply for more penfed cards later?

"oh yea, why no 2nd discover card "

i know it's YMMV with discover reallocations, and their initial CLs blow chunks. just didn't seem worth it for another card with a $75 bt fee.

"and did you forget to list a CHase personal cc as a card you already have?"

nope, I'm a Chase virgin.

"and "before you go" trick??"

if you start that citi app and close the browser, citi will launch a popup and offer 10K points to continue. you can do this again for another 5K (total of 15K).

i'll definitely get my true FICOs before i start. can't imagine why they would suck, but it's the wise thing to do.

and thanks for the free advice - i'll take all i can get.

dl73, thanks for the heads up. does your BofA business card appear on your personal credit reports?

lhendricks92 -

I noticed this is your first foray into business cc's. Do you own a bona fide business that you can use to apply for the cards, or will you be "creating" one?

bejota3

Wondering - what classifies as a business for "business card" purposes?

Essentially, I have two "businesses" - I do IT type of work for random people, i.e., friends, family, referrals, etc. All cash, so nothing official, but I do buy supplies, parts, etc. I am also a Realtor. I would guess that being a Realtor, earning revenue/comission should constitute a business per se, even though I don't have a Tax ID. In that case, I can use just my SSN and my own name as the Business name, correct?

Yes - I do claim business income. I believe the 1099's I receive from my broker are considered 1099-MISC, but when I file it is business income, and associated business expenses.

Are you supposed to use your own name as the Business name when applying? That was the one thing on the Apps that was throwing me.

The only reason to file a DBA is if you want to use a fictitious name for your business. Name and SSN are perfectly legitimate, though IMO using your SSN is unwise. It is just too easy to got to IRS.gov and get an EIN, and why would you want to give your SSN to every Tom, Dick, and Jerry you do business with?

have to join the military family association or something like that. it's like $20. many credit unions (e.g., patelco) are like this. don't think you can't get in just because you aren't XYZ.

if you start that citi app and close the browser, citi will launch a popup and offer 10K points to continue. you can do this again for another 5K (total of 15K).

updated original posting to answer this question about the citibusiness card.

Only soft pull CLI success was with BofA WorldPoints MC. 20K -> 24K. Discover and Citi required hard pulls to budge. Didn't want to try AMEX or USAA, as I have been fairly aggressive with CLI requests with those issuers in the recent past. Also, all reports reflect the balances in the OP. EQ Fico at 795.

Set for launch tomorrow morning.

Updated OP to reflect latest proposed apps. (Thanks to cardjuggler for the National City tip.) We'll see how many apps I actually initiate tomorrow. 27 is a bunch, although only 16 are personal.

Unfortunately it looks like the BofA 12mo/0%/No fee offers are gone. I almost applied for one of them on Friday, and I guess I should have not waited until today...

This would have been a good one for me since I already have large BofA lines and they are always good at shifting credit lines around.

Good luck on your AOR.

lhendricks92 said: just clicked through the link...seems to be there. if not, there's always BofA StarWars.

EDIT: uh, nevermind. i didn't click far enough. it's gone! I just tried the BofA NEA card app and it went through. It has 12mo/0%/$30 max fee terms.

updated OP with initial results from this morning's AOR. i didn't request any BTs with the apps - that may be hurting my initial CLs. we'll see what i can do about CLIs at activation.

lhendricks92 said: ...spoke to BofA business credit specialist - approved for $25K - BT of $22,500 on its way to a $0 balance USAA MasterCard. confirmed there are no balance transfer fees with this card.

So you did a BT to the USAA card from BofA? How do you plan on accessing this money? I don't think USAA will allow you to tranfer the money to checking or request a refund check for overpayment. Are you just going to do another BT from the USAA card to a card from Citi and request a check from them online?

lhendricks92 said: USAA is credit balance friendly. You can request a cash advance to your USAA checking account for the amount of the credit balance. The transfer is instant. I've done this several times without incident.
What about the limit of $2500 for cash advances? Do you just do multiple cash advances until the money is transferred? What's the largest amount you have transferred in a single day? What about billing cycle?

Note: $2500 is the maximum allowed online on my Mastercard account (CL is $30k)

Some updates.

Nat City - Had to fax a signed copy of my application for the Business card. Just noticed the pulled a SECOND TU today and an EQ. EQ? I will be surprised if I get either the personal or business card now.

Chase - Sony card was approved for 14k. 5k was the temporary limit. The Business Rebate Visa was approved for 10k. Of the remaining 2 apps (a personal Marriott and a business Mariott), one has been rejected and one is still pending. CSR could not tell me which was which.

Merrick Hooters - Decided to look for a card I was sure would pull from TU, and I found this one. Instantly approved with an unknown CL.

RBS - Denied! Too many inquiries and new accounts. Should have applied earlier in the AOR.

Added my inquiries to the OP. I'm in Virginia.

lhendricks92 said: RBS - Denied! Too many inquiries and new accounts. Should have applied earlier in the AOR..
You never know. An earlier inquiry might have bumped another card later in the list to a rejection. That's why, unless you have specific information to the contrary (FNBO), I generally recommend applying for cards in order of desireability.

Just for information, the $2500 CA limit is for online transfers. You also have a $5000 CA limit in each rolling 30 day period, which is unadvertised. If you call on the phone the limit is your credit limit.

lhendricks92 said: BankATL is denying my second 20K BT. They are telling me 20K is the limit per account, not per transfer. Completely different story from what I heard from them yesterday and others have reported. Wait a day or 2 and try again with another CSR?

Called again and had no problems requesting the 2nd BT. Hit my BofA billpay card 2 business days later. I'm wondering if the first BT request was still in process when I was denied for the the 2nd BT.