confuseu said: I've been reading through this forum and seeing a bunch of ridiculous statements from the apparent "now it alls" side, regarding how the MMA is a scam. Well, I've seen the presentation, actually seen/used the software that the client would/does use, consulted my mortgage broker and accountant (CPA)and all have no problem with it. In fact, they think it's great. Now what you nay sayers say is fine to a degree. You don't want to use the MMA software, don't...and for God's sake make sure you tell all your friends not to either! It's ok to be skeptical...but don't be stupid. Oh, that's right, I apologize, you aren't skeptical...you are stupid. None of you appears to have actually seen the software (please correct me if I'm wrong)and all the functions it provides the customer. I'm sorry, but I am familiar with similar "free" software, spreed sheets etc or probably most of the other stuff listed on this forum regarding "do it yourself, it's really easy!" BS. Well, you get what you pay for. I could buy a used car for $3500, it has wheels, radio, brakes, AC/heat just like the $20,000.00 new car. Are you gonna rip me for buying the $20,000.00 car? They both work, but the more expensive one has more "make my life easier" functions than the old used car....kinda like using a pencil and paper (or as you genius's "claim" free spreadsheets on-line!) or using the MMA software. I'll take the MMA. Why don't you start marketing your "super cheap" fix and report back on how that turns out.Welcome back E101.
I actually do not object much to your statements.
You're saying that you'd rather spend $3500 so that the software can tell you exactly when to pre-pay mortgage, etc. to maximize savings. Most people in this forum are saying that if they wanted to pre-pay, they will, and if they want to replicate the setup (HELOC, etc.) they can with similar results. Some are content with using free spreadsheets or mortgage calculators.
Reminds me of this Biggerpockets forum thread mentioned earlier in this thread. An MMA agent and another user were having the same argument and in the end this is what they came up with (statements taken from multiple posts):
Jaime Buckley (MMA Agent) said: Most people are not willing to do the calculations, and being human are also going to miss things. The average individual will not know what to send over to the primary mortgage, or when, to minimize the interest charges and maximize their savings--along with balancing out all their other debt (this program is about all debt, not just the mortgage).
Now, again, we are talking about two different classes here: the savvy investor and the average "Joe" homeowner (typical America) which would account for more than 90% of the ownership in this country. I'm sure the savvy investor can do many things and takes into account the rates of return far more than average "Joe".
I don't deal with the savvy investor---I deal with the everyday homeowner who needs this program desperately. John Corey (RE investor) said: There is no need to pay the fee. An individual can accomplish the same using a HELOC and a 1st mortgage plus depositing all their income into the HELOC account. A simple HELOC where the person's pay check is deposited combined with an existing 1st will do what you are describing.
If people are not savvy enough to know that they can save themselves a lot of money and someone else wants to charge a high fee to explain it, all the power to the sales person.
The math does not change.
It appears that all you are saying is your fee is justified by the borrower's lack of focus. This being a Finance forum, it's safe to assume that there will be a lot more "savvy" users not willing to pay $3500 than there are "average Joe's".
anthonyu...I'm not E101. Yes, it has been said a billion times, you can do it yourself. I'm not going through the crap to get onto another forum just to see another know-it-all who doesn't use the software tell me I can do it myself with a HELOC and no software. Hello Dah? All of you? It's the software that sold me over doing it myself.
I'm glad the software made you understand more about your mortgage/finances. I guess you can consider me "another know-it-all who doesn't use the software" because he doesn't want to spend $3500. MMA agents' posts in this forum made me want to know more about my mortgage and study different scenarios using a spreadsheet.
I hope all threads regarding UFF/MMA come to this conclusion so we don't all end up wasting a lot of time. No more question about mortgage scenarios and HELOC interest rates, etc. The mortgage calculation is the same with or without the software. There are just some people who would spend $3500 to get the software. And some who won't. I won't fault you for using the software to help you. Just don't insist that you saved a lot more mortgage interest with the software than someone without the software if he decided to do the same thing.
confuseu said: anthonyu...I'm not E101. Yes, it has been said a billion times, you can do it yourself. I'm not going through the crap to get onto another forum just to see another know-it-all who doesn't use the software tell me I can do it myself with a HELOC and no software. Hello Dah? All of you? It's the software that sold me over doing it myself.
anthonyu..I never have made that statement on this forum (save more than doing it yourself) However, after using the software, I would be hard pressed not to consider saying it. It's really that simple with this program. I'll take the time savings and simplicity any day over downloading this that and everything else to make "doing it myself" do what the MMA already does "out of the box"...oh yeah, the customer support is fabulous....don't see any of that with the "do it yourself" plan. Yeah, there is something to be said for doing it yourself. But I'm sorry all...this program is that easy to use, and it's actually quite fun to as well...call it what you want, fancy calculator or whatever, I'll take it any day over the free stuff and spread sheets I'vs checked over. Why do you think my mortgage broker and CPA liked it? It wasn't just the HELOC concept...they'd seen that before...it was the actual software TOOL that sold them.
confuseu said: Why do you think my mortgage broker and CPA liked it? It wasn't just the HELOC concept...they'd seen that before...it was the actual software TOOL that sold them.
Do you want a friendly answer or an honest answer? Even though they likely both realize you are an ignoramous(At least the CPA would know that, not sure about how smart the mortgage broker is), neither want to lose your business by calling you on it. It's sort of like telling a retarded kid "Good job buddy" for performing a simple task even though it took a lot of effort.
Snyder81...Have you used the software? Do you personally know my mortgage broker or CPA? Wait, let me guess. The answer is NO to all three questions. Like I said earlier, whine all you want about the $3500.00 and the software you have never used or seen. I could let the mother nature water my yard...Hell, that's free. But I chose to spend about $4000.00 for a sprinkler system. I'll bet no one else has ever done that either, and if they have, well they were took because they could have gotten the same thing (water)cheaper..oh wait that's right, they could have gotten it for free. You go ahead and use/sell your program to the public, and see how that goes. I'm more than happy.
confuseu said: anthonyu..I never have made that statement on this forum (save more than doing it yourself) However, after using the software, I would be hard pressed not to consider saying it. It's really that simple with this program. I'll take the time savings and simplicity any day over downloading this that and everything else to make "doing it myself" do what the MMA already does "out of the box"...oh yeah, the customer support is fabulous....don't see any of that with the "do it yourself" plan. Yeah, there is something to be said for doing it yourself. But I'm sorry all...this program is that easy to use, and it's actually quite fun to as well...call it what you want, fancy calculator or whatever, I'll take it any day over the free stuff and spread sheets I'vs checked over. Why do you think my mortgage broker and CPA liked it? It wasn't just the HELOC concept...they'd seen that before...it was the actual software TOOL that sold them.
An honest answer. For $3500 the software tool made it easy for conusefu to do something that he wouldn't have understand or had the discipline to do on his own. A fancy tool to just prepay his mortgage wrapped around the marginal benefit of using a HELOC to gain a couple of weeks benefit on prepayment.
No different than some people change their own oil, and take my car to the shop for an oil change
I am most intrigued by the thought of people getting satisfaction from a program that tells them when a bill due date is; and it seems value the program MORE for having paid through the nose for it. FWf types are confident that personal time and effort will lead to financial gain. UFF types think they have bought financial acumen; and quite conveniently for themselves and the salesperson, are adamant that success only requires suspending rational evaluation. "If you leave everything to the software, good things just happen!."
In another place and time, I think these people would be moonies, or perhaps Hari Krishna or fundamentalist christian types. A UFF person is a scammer's mark. And the mark fights to the end that EVERYBODY ELSE just does not understand. Face it, everybody. Until you have given yourself to the reverend, how can you possibly know the bliss that is to be shined upon by him ?
Perhaps I'll market a program that tells UFFers when and for how long to sit in the john. "Leverage your peristalsis for maximum health !!" These people KNOW the value and happiness that comes from complete evacuation. If not yet of their bowels, most clearly of their senses.
I don't back either side of this but I will tell you that since I have not seen the software in action I can't say if it does or does not save the person $3500+.
Not to rain on the UFF supporters parade, but most here will say that for it to be worth $3500 it would have to save you more than $3500. Most people here only look at things from a purely mathematical or financial standpoint without any other considerations. What I do find funny is that people here try to talk about how smart or sophisticated finanically they are yet most make less than $80,000. If people were so smart or sophisticated in their ways they sure would make a hell of a lot more than that.
And for the people who make fun of people's spelling and grammar one of the guys here has terrible spelling and grammar (and has admitted as much) and makes more than all of you and has more than all of you (sorry Scott)
I really would love to see the numbers and no one that has the software has posted how much personal cash has to be spent by using the software over a 10 year period. By personal cash I mean my personal amount of dollars from my paycheck going out. WE know how much you have to spend if you choose to just prepay yourself. If the amount of cash that you actually spend + $3500 (cost of software) < prepaying yourself then I think you can say it is worth it.
Ellroy.....I understood the concept perfectly before the MMA. Hell, I put a giant HELOC (4 years ago)on as a first mortgage and deposited my pay check into that account for the same purpose and used the checkbook offered by the lender to pay my bills. I'm sorry, can any of you say you have done this? I highly doubt you have, it was extremely difficult to get this done 4 years ago, it took months to find a lending institution to provide the loan I wanted. Please, please tell me any of you have been that far ahead of the curve? And I've been called retarded, and too dumb to understand what I'm doing. What I have found is the MMA is a much more efficient tool than doing it myself. It allowed me to more effectively review my finances/bills future scenarios in an instant, simple process. And yes, I'm very familiar with the other various spreadsheet programs (quick books, apple tree, etc) as well as the hyped "free" stuff everyone here talks about. Simply put, the MMA is better. With the interest I've already saved paying down my first over 4 years (remember the giant HELOC?)I paid for the MMA. Who are the retards now?
Confuseu, I hear the FHA may have a smashing deal for geniuses like you.
To answer your question, right around four years ago I put *part* of my mortgage in a HELOC. However, I never paid a penny of interest on it, by using 0% money from credit cards. The difference between the two of us is that I paid that loan off ages ago, while you are now paying about prime on your entire house principal. I was not the first, second, or even 50th person to to use a HELOC this way; in fact, while HYS savings account were below 3% it was simply a generally accepted reasonable thing to do in this forum.
I don't know how far back archives go, but lots of threads discussed the strategy, and one of my first threads posted here describes my venture in detail. At the time, my handle was EricGo.
EricGo07...Good for you. I'm impressed. When did I say I didn't use a credit card and take that advantage the same as you? That's right, I didn't. You make many assumptions, just like everyone else here. And the best part of it is, I made the decision on my own to purchase the MMA software. You claimed it was "pretty standard" to do this HELOC scenario to people in the "know" back then...Well, I hate to break it to you, but the only ones in the "know" back then about that stuff would be in the mortgage/banking/financial industry at that time. Last time I checked, they provided those products and services for free right? Oh, that's right, they don't. Investment guys work for free as well these days I guess. This is a great product for everyone, but especially the normal Joe. The big financial know-it-alls in this forum are all talk and no action. As usual, you did this "on your own"...didn't take the time to put a program together to help others across all financial demographics, and now that someone has (UFF) you sit there and rip and rip and rip. Wow, what an idea...put information together and sell it!!!!!!! Wow...ah...what's a mortgage?
Exactly. Like I said for $3500 the software tool makes it easy to do something that the average person doesn't understand or have the discipline to do on their own. A fancy tool to just prepay his mortgage wrapped around the marginal benefit of using a HELOC to gain a couple of weeks benefit on prepayment.
WalStMonky said: No different than some people change their own oil, and take my car to the shop for an oil change
No different if you are paying $2327.50 for the oil change.
Touche', WalStreet
Question for Confused, or 101~
OK, so we've FINALLY come full circle and several of you have admitted that this works because of extra mortgage payments being applied. Then why does the UFF website say the following on the front page?~
Introducing the Money Merge Account — a powerful tool to help you fulfill your dream of home ownership and save money for your future. Our average customer will pay their 30 year mortgage off within 8 to 11 years — with little change to their day-to-day spending habits and without increasing their monthly mortgage payments.
Frankly, that's the part of this deal that made me sit up in my chair. If there was a way to pay it off early without extra payments, that would be huge.
I'm guessing it's just more doublespeak. But just for the record, 101 or confused, you're NOT saying this program pays off the mortgage early without paying extra principal, like the website implies, ARE YOU?
The answer is in their FAQ. Throw all your "idle cash" at your mortgage. i.e a prepayment. If you need the cash, borrow it back from your HELOC. No magic at all. And entirely dependent on you having cash to prepay your mortgage.
Ripped from UFF FAQs said:
How can homeowners pay their mortgage off early with little to no change in lifestyle and with out increasing minimum monthly payments? A.
The Money Merge Account system and service is designed to work with a homeowners existing lifestyle. This system helps homeowners to reduce both the interest and time owing on their existing mortgage by repositioning their unused idle money which normally sits in their accounts and their regular monthly expense money until it is needed to pay expenses. When money is needed for expenses, it can be accessed through their Line of Credit. This system helps homeowners to strategically position their money where it provides much more financial benefit than sitting in a standard checking or savings account. Vast financial details programmed into the MMA software assist homeowners in some of the greatest time and interest savings possible. I imagine the "vast financial details programmed into the software" equate to 1. take all your cash and use it to prepay your mortgage principal
Then for the sleight of hand, the remainder of the benefit is
2.Draw one month's mortgage payment plus "optional" free cash and send it to pay your mortgage one month early and prepay additional principle from HELOC 3. Deposit your paycheck back to the HELOC 4. Repeat monthly 5, If you have an emergency and need cash, draw down the HELOC
And the magic sophistication is a budget tool that takes your income and subtracts your expenses and tells you, how much more free cash you have to prepay principal.
I have to hand it to them. Very clever marketing and packaging. And just this side of legal.
Worth $3500 to say that you can save interest by taking all your cash and prepaying your mortgage? And use your HELOC for emergency. And adjust how much extra you should pay each month? Not to me
confuseu said: EricGo07...You claimed it was "pretty standard" to do this HELOC scenario to people in the "know" back then...Well, I hate to break it to you, but the only ones in the "know" back then about that stuff would be in the mortgage/banking/financial industry at that time.Off the top of my head, all the people that I can think of (myself, SiS, DaveHanson, Mbaker for a start) from four years ago have nothing to do with the mortgage, banking, or financial industries. Heck, at the time I was a money dimwit. But the strategy as I mentioned was freely discussed on this forum, the mechanics obvious and open to reasonable evaluation, and so I like many others took advantage of it.
Compare to the UFF scam, in which the customer is told to trust in the mighty software. You looking for a replacement deity ?
confuseu said: You claimed it was "pretty standard" to do this HELOC scenario to people in the "know" back then...Well, I hate to break it to you, but the only ones in the "know" back then about that stuff would be in the mortgage/banking/financial industry at that time. Last time I checked, they provided those products and services for free right? Oh, that's right, they don't. Investment guys work for free as well these days I guess. This is a great product for everyone, but especially the normal Joe. The big financial know-it-alls in this forum are all talk and no action. As usual, you did this "on your own"...didn't take the time to put a program together to help others across all financial demographics,
Hey Mr. New Member/UFF shill
A couple years ago HELOC rates were below 5%, and thats when it MADE SENSE to use HELOC. Now most HELOCs are in the 7-8% range. You guys can keep thinking the RATE doesnt matter, but it does.
And yes we WERE providing the information for free for everyone right here in this forum. In fact, some of us had lined up 1% HELOC INTRO RATES and flipped promo to promo to pay the least interest possible
confuseu said: IKKY68...Why would I or anyone else "lend you the software"....when you and everyone else here already knows how it works without seeing or using it!?Well, we would post our results, and you could explain how we are using the software wrong. Or you might decide we are using the program correctly, and it is indeed worth 99 cents just for the entertainment value.
Reason aaide, you are just arguing the cult straw man: A. only cult members can perceive value B. only people who have accepted the cult teachings a priori will be allowed to join
Argue with the skeptic, not the brainwashed accolyte.
confuseu said: anthonyu...I'm not E101. Yes, it has been said a billion times, you can do it yourself. I'm not going through the crap to get onto another forum just to see another know-it-all who doesn't use the software tell me I can do it myself with a HELOC and no software. Hello Dah? All of you? It's the software that sold me over doing it myself.interesting name you have picked for yourself - "Confuse You"
That seems to be the only way you can get people to step into this program - with confusion
hate2work said: Our average customer will pay their 30 year mortgage off within 8 to 11 years — with little change to their day-to-day spending habits and without increasing their monthly mortgage payments.
I'm guessing it's just more doublespeak. But just for the record, 101 or confused, you're NOT saying this program pays off the mortgage early without paying extra principal, like the website implies, ARE YOU? http://www.u1stfinancial.com/Default.aspx?tabid=96
I'd bet they really mean what is what they say on the "Money Merge Account Introduction" page (http://www.u1stfinancial.com/MoneyMergeAccount/MMAIntroduction/tabid/115/default.aspx):
"Your 30-year mortgage can now be paid off in about 8 to 11 years, with no change to your lifestyle or refinancing of your existing mortgage."
That is, they really mean "... without increasing their required monthly mortgage payments", i.e. refinancing; optionally paying more than the required payment doesn't count as an increase vy their definition.
That goes in double in light of this statement on their "5 steps" page: The amount left after bills have been paid remains against the balance of your mortgage until you need it http://www.u1stfinancial.com/Default.aspx?tabid=237
I'll wager that that most people using this software don't even know how much they're paying on their mortgage; the magic program tells them to send x dollars, they send x dollars. Or maybe the payments are automated, I'm not clear on the mechanics of how it works, in which case the people deposit their paychecks and never even see the payments unless they specifically look at their statements, as the kind of people who use this kind of program probably wouldn't do.
Heck, I'll give the shills the easiest question I can think of. Forget all the fancy formulae and calculations and such, just answer this: what's your required monthly mortgage payment, and how much per month are you actually paying?
curtster said: I'll wager that that most people using this software don't even know how much they're paying on their mortgage; the magic program tells them to send x dollars, they send x dollars. Or maybe the payments are automated, I'm not clear on the mechanics of how it works, in which case the people deposit their paychecks and never even see the payments unless they specifically look at their statements, as the kind of people who use this kind of program probably wouldn't do.
Heck, I'll give the shills the easiest question I can think of. Forget all the fancy formulae and calculations and such, just answer this: what's your required monthly mortgage payment, and how much per month are you actually paying?
Exactly, the people that buy into this software has little or no knowledge of how their mortgage payments actually work. For those that have followed this thread from the beginning, notice how E101's examples have changed. When he started to post about his program, he claimed rates didn't matter multiple times and all you needed was a little discretionary income. The program would and its bag of tricks would shorten any 30 year mortgage to 10 years. In his last example to show the program's greatness, he picked 5.6% as the rate to use (so much for rates don't matter) and the owner, "Joe", is sending $4000 of his $6000 salary into his $320,000 mortgage. That is over 2x his monthly mortgage payment.
With the "typical" mortgage rates many here have (5-7%), Anyone who sends double payments to their mortgage can have it paid off in roughly 8 years. No smoke , no mirrors, no magic.
First post here, been an on again off again lurker in this forum and after reading about 15 pages and skimming the others on this thread I can comfortably say I might pay $3500 at this point just to stop the pain.
ExactEstimate said: First post here, been an on again off again lurker in this forum and after reading about 15 pages and skimming the others on this thread I can comfortably say I might pay $3500 at this point just to stop the pain.$3500 buys a lot of GFE.
Being a software developer, I'm almost motivated to take a few hours and write something and post it for free just to shut these guys up.
So, if you are one of the Kool-Aid drinkers, please give me a detailed example of your mortgage situation and the payments that you made (and the money that you think you saved) -- it will make my task a little easier.
--Galabar
p.s. I said I was *almost* motivated, but if someone actually posts there info, I might go ahead and do it.
ikky68 said: Noob here. I think I figured out the hook that UFF uses to snare the unwitting.
According to the bankrate mortgage calc, if you take out a loan for $100,000 @ 6% on a 30y term, you will have to pay $599.55 every month for 30 years. ** hook ** Part1) Now if you put an extra $5K (from the HELOC, let's say) on Dec of next year, the loan will be paid off on Apr 15, 2034 instead of Sept 15, 2037. Now you just shaved off 41 months from the loan meaning that (41*599.55) you saved $24,581.55
** hook ** Part2) The $5,000 from the HELOC. If you were to pay it off in 1 year at 10% (I'm just using the same mortgage calculator) it would be $439.58 per month. Over all it would cost $5,274.96 to pay off the loan.
24,581.55 - $5,274.96 = $19,306.59
Wow! That's almost $20K in savings. Now don't you think that a $3500 (super duper mega lightning intelligent) spreadsheet is worth that?
Get on the ball guy/gals this the what the finance companies don't want you to know. So just keep this awesome information between the FWF members.
Quick Question: Do people really fall for this? In this day and age?
"Hook" Part 2 is where you get it wrong. The $5,000 you pay right away with your income/paycheck, the amount depends on how much you make, so for this example, you pay the $5,000 from the HELOC as mentioned above, however because you are paying it off right away you pay only $41.67 in interest on the HELOC and save $24,581.55 and 41 months on the loan.
24,581.55 - $5,041.67 = $19,539.88 thats $233.29 more than your calculation that's a big difference in the amount of months to come.
Now why not just pay it directly if you have the money, why use the HELOC? Answer is because most people will not do it if they do not see the benefits and know how much they really will save, also you will not have to pay that much every month, the program will tell you the best time to pay big chunks off of your mortgage using it's mathamatical equations and will work hard saving you money in interest not paid.
In colusion; Just as much as I cannot completely prove that the MMA program works in saving you money more than the cost of the program, you cannot prove that it does not either especially when you do not even know how it works, Then you cannot say it does NOT work. And if it was for free, does it work Do you believe I can save $231K and pay off my mortgage in 9.6 years without the program, then show me, If you say I cannot, show me!
E101 said: "Hook" Part 2 is where you get it wrong. Exactly, E101, "part2" is where YOU get this whole thing wrong because you are comparing apples to oranges. ikky68 was showing a a sarcastic example as to how YOUR "marketing" works for this magical program.
With a 6% mortgage and a 6% available investment your savings are $0, or less (eg, you lose money).
The difference between paying $5k from HELOC into your mortgage today and then paying off your HELOC over a course of let's say 1yr vs paying $5k/12=$400 every month into your morgage is minimal (as in $3500 scam fee will never be recovered), or negative if your HELOC rate is high.
Like galabar said, I almost feel like writing a program/website that does this for free, except I don't particularly care to have hard proof that 7 > (6-tax).
E101 said: Answer is because most people will not do it if they do not see the benefits and know how much they really will save This has nothing to do with program's qualities then.
E101 said: you do not even know how it works We do. We looked into these things years ago, and concluded on it. There is a FAQ (frequently asked questions) thread in these forums on it. YOU don't know how it works, as you admitted, yet you continue to argue for it.
E101 said: o you believe I can save $231K and pay off my mortgage in 9.6 years without the program, then show me A $300k 6% mortgage has a monthly payment of $1800. Pay $3500 every month and you'll be done in under 10yrs. You will save about $250k in interest (compared to paying over 30 years). Adjusted to 2% inflation, it would be savings of about $190k. http://www.jeacle.ie/mortgage/ is your friend, for free.
confuseu said: IKKY68...Why would I or anyone else "lend you the software"....when you and everyone else here already knows how it works without seeing or using it!?
To maximize "interest cancellation", the software only needs to nag you to do 2 things:
Keep available cash in HELOC as long as possible
Wait as long as possible before paying bills from HELOC
confuseu said: I'll take the time savings and simplicity any day over downloading this that and everything else to make "doing it myself" do what the MMA already does "out of the box"...oh yeah, the customer support is fabulous....don't see any of that with the "do it yourself" plan.
I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would be happy to nag you about when to pay your bills for only $1750, a 50% savings over the MMA software!
E101 said: Now why not just pay it directly if you have the money, why use the HELOC? Answer is because most people will not do it if they do not see the benefits and know how much they really will save, also you will not have to pay that much every month, the program will tell you the best time to pay big chunks off of your mortgage using it's mathamatical equations and will work hard saving you money in interest not paid.
In colusion; Just as much as I cannot completely prove that the MMA program works in saving you money more than the cost of the program, you cannot prove that it does not either especially when you do not even know how it works, Then you cannot say it does NOT work. And if it was for free, does it work Do you believe I can save $231K and pay off my mortgage in 9.6 years without the program, then show me, If you say I cannot, show me!
Do you even read what is posted in this thread? We are saying the program DOES work. However, the results are easily reproduced with either a spreadsheet or a free online mortgage calculator and it certainly will not "revolutionize" the industry. We all understand how the program basically works because regardless of how you spin it, there is only one way to pay off your mortgage faster. The only thing we do not know is the exact mathematical formulas behind the program because its supporter are not willing to post their results and its detractors are not willing to spend $3500 to see it. Make it simple why not just post the following items and we can compare the results from our free alternatives.
1- Mortgage amount 2- Mortgage rate 3- Monthly Income that goes into the HELOC every month 4- Amount of money your program tells you to send into the mortgage from your HELOC 5- Amount of years your program states the mortgage will be paid off
dosun said: Do you even read what is posted in this thread? We are saying the program DOES work. However, the results are easily reproduced with either a spreadsheet or a free online mortgage calculator and it certainly will not "revolutionize" the industry. We all understand how the program basically works because regardless of how you spin it, there is only one way to pay off your mortgage faster. The only thing we do not know is the exact mathematical formulas behind the program because its supporter are not willing to post their results and its detractors are not willing to spend $3500 to see it. Make it simple why not just post the following items and we can compare the results from our free alternatives.
I agree. If I were to guess on an algorithm, it would be a function of your monthly income and disposable income. Ex.
Monthly income = $4K Monthly bills = $3K Disposable income = $1K (otherwise referred to as "idle money" that ends up being used to prepay mortgage)
A simplistic approach would be to prepay your mortgage $1K every month. But in order to leverage "float" in your HELOC, the software would most likely suggest an amount closer to your monthly income. For example, it would ask you to pre-pay $3K. Here's how it would go, assuming you get paid monthly for easier simulation.
Month 1: Initial HELOC balance from prepayment: $3K Paycheck deposited at around time of prepayment: $4K Total bills paid as late as possible: $3K HELOC balance at end of month: $2K
HELOC interest: Because you immediately offset your HELOC balance with your income, there is no or minimal interest for the first part of the month. After all your bills are paid at the end of the month, your HELOC balance will be $2K. You will be charged interest for as much as $2K balance for a few days towards the end of the month but very little interest in the beginning part.
Month 2: HELOC balance at start of month: $2K Paycheck deposited at around time of prepayment: $4K Total bills paid as late as possible: $3K HELOC balance at end of month: $1K
Month 3: HELOC balance at start of month: $1K Paycheck deposited at around time of prepayment: $4K Total bills paid as late as possible: $3K HELOC balance at end of month: None
Repeat every 3 months
This is a simple version of "If I did it...this is how I would have done it". This 3 month example actually leaves your HELOC with credit balance for parts of each month. A more aggressive approach would be to prepay 4 to 6 months of your disposable income (4K-6K). The prepayment amount is probably some factor of your disposable income and adjusted to be close to your monthly income. If you earn $10K and has bills of $9K per month, it would probably suggest the same prepay amount (but maybe adjusted a little bit higher so as not to leave too much credit balance) since the disposable income is still $1K and the goal is to be able to pay the HELOC in a short amount of time to minimize interest.
That's why they insist that the HELOC rate does not matter as much because they do not suggest that you put a large amount on your HELOC.
Wow, you guys are still ripping the MMA. Sweet! Again, what lives you must have. At least Dosun has finally admitted it works. So we are back to the $3500.00...or I guess maybe we never left that part. I love the know-it-alls, always trying to save us from ourselves! This product is like any other product, put it on the market and see if it sells for the asking price. Oh, but wait, someone is going to get paid for selling it...SCAM!!!!!!!!!!! Quick run and hide tell your friends SCAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop buying insurance...it's a SCAM!!! (in reality, it is a legal scam and you know it!)...quit buying investments from a financial planner, he gets paid!...it's a SCAM!!!...You guys here wouldn't know a real scam if it knocked on your front door and punched you. If it works, how is it a scam?...Oh, that's right, YOU think it costs too much! Sorry, that doesn't qualify as a scam. To the gentleman who has the idle "threat" of developing the software for free...just to "shut up the MMA folks", go ahead a do it! Put your big ass mouth to work. Oh yeah....when someone has a problem understanding exactly what to do, please leave your direct number so I/they can call to have the questions answered...Again, what lives you all must have!
Anthonyu....your on the right track, pretty basic explanation, simple to understand, right to the point. But the key is, doing this every month to the exact dollar (some months spend more make less, and vice versa) because every month is probably going to be different. Nice round numbers would be great, but that's not reality. As I've said before, this can be done by the individual if they want to take the time to do it. I chose not to do it myself. I like the software and it's flexibility plain and simple. Are there cheaper alternatives? I'm sure there are to some degree. But for the software, customer service, and the re-assurance my numbers were accurate and that UFF was going beyond what my mortgage and CPA were willing to do for the cost....I said..I'm in.
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