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WalStMonky
- Happy Member
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posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 12:23p 
here we go again. lather, rinse, repeat... |
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dosun
- Senior Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 12:48p
JOrsak said:Your explanation demonstrates that you do not know how the product works. It has nothing to do with sending your idle cash to the mortgage. It as an interest cancellation methodology and has been successfully in use for 12 years in Australia.
For everyone else who wants to know how it works, feel free to contact me. My advice is to talk to someone who actually either owns / uses the software or who actually knows how the product works.
This poster does not understand the product at all. Since none of us here understand what the program is supposed to do, can you please be so kind to tell us using bullet points or numbers? such as 1- help you manage xyz, 2-etc, 3-etc. We've been getting very confusing responses from various supporters of this program when this question is asked. If you can, also give us an example of how the math would work in the first couple months listing out the mortgage rate, principle balance, and HELOC rate. |
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kamalktk
- Ancient Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 1:01p
JOrsak said: Year 1 it is 80%+.
It's just math as you say.
Uh oh, someone doesn't understand math. |
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ellory
- Thrifty Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 2:11p
JOrsak, another "new member" huckster looking for marks and a $2500 MLM commission we throughly understand 1.The scam misinformation techniques you use
2. The massive MLM commissions you get paid You want to play here? Be the first UFF /MMA advocate to actually answer the questions that every advocate has dodged. Start at page 1, and answer the questions. On point. Don't spew marketing hype. And don't tell us we don't understand. I personally understand so well the I need a shower to clean up after each exchange Otherwise just go somewhere else to commit fraud |
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mikef07
- Senior Member - 2K
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 2:18p
In fact the only information we need are: 1) How many years to pay off your mortgage now.
2) Balance of mortgage when you started the MMS (Mortgage amount input into the software)
3) Mortgage interest rate
4) How much total interest you will pay using the MMA. The total interest should be available on your analysis. It really is that easy. If we are wrong we will all apologize and tell you we were wrong. |
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ellory
- Thrifty Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 2:34p
ellory said:JOrsak, another "new member" huckster looking for marks and a $2500 MLM commission
we throughly understand
1.The scam misinformation techniques you use
2. The massive MLM commissions you get paid
You want to play here? Be the first UFF /MMA advocate to actually answer the questions that every advocate has dodged. Start at page 1, and answer the questions. On point. Don't spew marketing hype. And don't tell us we don't understand. I personally understand so well the I need a shower to clean up after each exchange
Otherwise just go somewhere else to commit fraud Or you could address all the logic flaws in your math. Simple algebra This thing called "variables" allows one analysis to cover all situations. But you can't, because it is the UFF /MLM scheme that is flawed. So you will either a) best case - go away and never come back
b) Tell us we don't understand and the only way to understand is to waste $3500 on you (so you get $2500 commission per sale)
c) Call us names
d) Ask us off topic questions like "Do we really want to pay more interest than we have to?"
e) Try one of the other techniques outlined in your own scripted powerpoint slides off your own website. (Its all there - and we have read and debuked it) My preference is (A). Please |
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JOrsak
- Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 3:49p
Thanks for the kind reply. In short, you use your paycheck to offset interest. The saved interest is what becomes additional principle payments - not additional money out of pocket. In example: Let's say you have 10K on a credit card and an interest & principle payment of $300 (just an example) and a Net monthly income of $5K. In that $300 payment $200 goes to principle and $100 to interest. You get a HELOC or Personal Line of Credit (LOC) for $10K. The LOC has to be interest only, have a variable rate (interest calculated daily) and have check writing capabilities. You then use your HELOC or Personal Line of Credit (In Texas HELOC's won't work) to pay off the Credit Card. It is interest only so your payment is now $200. You picked up $100 a month in discretionary income. So... you now have very little different. $10K was owed to a credit card and now it's paid off but you have $10K in an interest only line of credit. If it's a HELOC it is a better type of loan since the interest is tax deductible but that would just be tax savings (which is nice.) As mentioned earlier, in Texas (Due to certain restrictions) HELOCs won't work. Now... here's where it gets different. Each time you get paid, you deposit your entire paycheck into your line of credit. So, my $10K balance is now $5K. If I could let my $5K sit there all month it would be easy to understand that my payment would be half of what it was when I owed $10K. However, I have bills to pay. So, as the bills come due I pay them. Each day my balance climbs back up so that by the end of the month I'm back at $10K minus whatever my discretionary income is. However, everyday that my $ sat in the LOC it took away SOME amount of interest. It is that saved interest that the software calculates on a daily basis and then informs you to send as a lump sum ADDITIONAL payment on top of your regular mortgage payment. So, without coming out of pocket extra money, the method of offsetting interesting or canceling out interest allows you to save money which becomes additional principle payment. I hope that you can understand the concept (forgive my poor explanation otherwise)because the math behind all the interest calculations and the process of tracking what amount to pull from the LOC, when, etc., is what the company spent 2 million dollars developing. The common mistake people make is thinking that their mortgage is actually 6% or whatever rate they have. That is only true if you average it out over the length of the note. In truth you are paying over 80% to interest in year one. It takes almost 20 years to just get to the point that you are paying 50%. So, obviously, ever bit that I can get sent to the principle (ESPECIALLY EARLY ON) has a huge impact. I am no mathematician. But I have seen the numbers and do know it works. |
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JOrsak
- Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 3:58p
And to be perfectly honest. I spent time giving a scenario (explaining the concept) because I enjoy sharing it. I will give the benefit of the doubt to all those who have made personal attacks on character because they have not seen yet the explanation. For those of you who have made such personal attacks, in the future you might want to more politely engage those who come here and you will get a lot further. I make it a habit of trying not to assault someone's character - especially when I have never met them or do not know them. Additionally, perhaps OTHERS have come here "looking for a mark." I don't know. I'm definitely a "new" member. But if I were a slick "hukster" as you have labeled me, this would be the LAST place I'd try to find my "mark." |
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psychtobe
- Senior Member - 2K
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 3:59p
well sir, you get green for actually answering the questions. let the fun begin... |
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JOrsak
- Member
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posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 4:00p
"You want to play here? Be the first UFF /MMA advocate to actually answer the questions that every advocate has dodged. Start at page 1, and answer the questions. On point. Don't spew marketing hype. And don't tell us we don't understand. I personally understand so well the I need a shower to clean up after each exchange." Do you honestly expect me to go through 60 pages of questions and answer them? |
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JOrsak
- Member
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posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 4:04p
LOL! Thanks. (I think.) As I have said... I'm no mathematician. I do understand the concept though and it's actually quite simple to me. It did take me a few times of hearing it before I got it. I'm interested to see if others here will understand the concept / see how it works. |
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ellory
- Thrifty Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 4:08p
JOrsak said:LOL! Thanks. (I think.) As I have said... I'm no mathematician. I do understand the concept though and it's actually quite simple to me. It did take me a few times of hearing it before I got it. I'm interested to see if others here will understand the concept / see how it works. Thanks for being honest that you have no clue on how badly you are scamming people. But you've just gotten the buzzer for dodging quetisons So, let's try again JOrsak, you are another "new member" huckster looking for marks and a $2500 MLM commission We throughly understand 1.The scam misinformation techniques you use
2. The massive MLM commissions you get paid You want to play here? Be the first UFF /MMA advocate to actually answer the questions that every advocate has dodged. Start at page 1, and answer the questions. On point. Don't spew marketing hype. And don't tell us we don't understand. I personally understand so well that I need a shower to clean up after each exchange Otherwise just go somewhere else to commit fraud |
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JOrsak
- Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 4:14p
ellory said:JOrsak said:LOL! Thanks. (I think.) As I have said... I'm no mathematician. I do understand the concept though and it's actually quite simple to me. It did take me a few times of hearing it before I got it. I'm interested to see if others here will understand the concept / see how it works.
Thanks for being honest that you have no clue on how badly you are scamming people.
But you've just gotten the buzzer for dodging quetisons
So, let's try again
JOrsak, you are another "new member" huckster looking for marks and a $2500 MLM commission
We throughly understand
1.The scam misinformation techniques you use
2. The massive MLM commissions you get paid
You want to play here? Be the first UFF /MMA advocate to actually answer the questions that every advocate has dodged. Start at page 1, and answer the questions. On point. Don't spew marketing hype. And don't tell us we don't understand. I personally understand so well that I need a shower to clean up after each exchange
Otherwise just go somewhere else to commit fraud
WOW! Whatever dude. I just typed a whole freakin page of explanation to show you how it works. Instead of responding to that, maybe asking a question related to that, you just repeat your tripe and animosity and the idiotic "Start at page one and answer the questions."
Grow up and act like an adult and have a civilized conversation or just drop off. |
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ellory
- Thrifty Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 4:17p
JOrsak said:I am no mathematician. But I have seen the numbers and do know it works.My apologies. You are a victim / potential victim, not the scammer. The numbers don't work. The logic is flawed. In fact, if you run the numbers, factoring in the $3500 expense ($2500 of which pays MLM commisions - not any expensive software development), this program always comes out behind simply prepaying your mortgage. And, has been previously debunked in this thread and others on the forum, it is a false assumption to compare monthly interest charges vs lifetime. Want to come out ahead? Take your $3500 and drop it directly to your mortgage. Watch years drop off |
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JOrsak
- Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 4:26p
ellory said:JOrsak said:I am no mathematician. But I have seen the numbers and do know it works.My apologies. You are a victim / potential victim, not the scammer.
The numbers don't work. The logic is flawed.
In fact, if you run the numbers, factoring in the $3500 expense ($2500 of which pays MLM commisions - not any expensive software development), this program always comes out behind simply prepaying your mortgage. And, has been previously debunked in this thread and others on the forum, it is a false assumption to compare monthly interest charges vs lifetime.
Want to come out ahead? Take your $3500 and drop it directly to your mortgage. Watch years drop off Thanks for the apology. Just out of curiosity, did you read my explanation of how it works? The interest cancellation aspect of it? Of course sending in additional principle out of your pocket will always pay it off sooner. If, however, I can offset the interest by utilizing my income against the LOC it makes complete sense to me that it will save me interest that I would have been charged. Subsequently, it makes complete sense (since you've already point it out) that sending in that saved interest that would have been lost pays down my mortgage faster. So, in effect, I am managing to send in additional principle payment without coming out of my pocket to do it. |
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mikef07
- Senior Member - 2K
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 4:27p
JOrsak said:ellory said:JOrsak said:LOL! Thanks. (I think.) As I have said... I'm no mathematician. I do understand the concept though and it's actually quite simple to me. It did take me a few times of hearing it before I got it. I'm interested to see if others here will understand the concept / see how it works.
Thanks for being honest that you have no clue on how badly you are scamming people.
But you've just gotten the buzzer for dodging quetisons
So, let's try again
JOrsak, you are another "new member" huckster looking for marks and a $2500 MLM commission
We throughly understand
1.The scam misinformation techniques you use
2. The massive MLM commissions you get paid
You want to play here? Be the first UFF /MMA advocate to actually answer the questions that every advocate has dodged. Start at page 1, and answer the questions. On point. Don't spew marketing hype. And don't tell us we don't understand. I personally understand so well that I need a shower to clean up after each exchange
Otherwise just go somewhere else to commit fraud
WOW! Whatever dude. I just typed a whole freakin page of explanation to show you how it works. Instead of responding to that, maybe asking a question related to that, you just repeat your tripe and animosity and the idiotic "Start at page one and answer the questions."
Grow up and act like an adult and have a civilized conversation or just drop off. Just answer the questions that I wrote above: I will write them again. You can put the answer next to each one. How long does MMA say it will take utnil your mortgae is paid off?
What was the amount you owed on your mortgage when you began this program?
What is the total amount of interest you will pay by using this program? (This number should be in the total interest paid column on your analysis)
What is the interest rate of your mortgage? Very simple questions and these can prove us all wrong. |
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JOrsak
- Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 4:31p
As a side question, have you seen one user of the software anywhere that has had a negative report on it? I've been unable to locate one. The company supposedly has 20K plus users. You'd have to assume that surely ONE would have caught on that it was a scam and started squawking to the BBB or the news or something. The only negative report I've found is here and similar sites. Countering that I have NBC news who ran a report and gave it a thumbs up as well as a number of other seemingly reputable sources that indicate that it is a good product. I've also been "told" and certainly could be wrong that the AG's office has investigated them with no ill-report. just curious. |
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ellory
- Thrifty Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 4:47p
JOrsak said:As a side question, have you seen one user of the software anywhere that has had a negative report on it? I've been unable to locate one. The company supposedly has 20K plus users. You'd have to assume that surely ONE would have caught on that it was a scam and started squawking to the BBB or the news or something. The only negative report I've found is here and similar sites. Countering that I have NBC news who ran a report and gave it a thumbs up as well as a number of other seemingly reputable sources that indicate that it is a good product. I've also been "told" and certainly could be wrong that the AG's office has investigated them with no ill-report.
just curious. 1. We have "reverse engineered the math" because no one from the company will tell you how it all work
2. Scammed victims stay scammed and don't complain
3. The "guarantee" that the company provides, and their claims, are just barely this side of legal. Because you do pay down your mortgage faster as they claim. The deception is that they imply it is due to their fancy MMA account. The reality is that the benefit is due to prepaying your mortgage. Simply prepaying your mortgage comes out ahead of MMA. Taking the $3500, buying Quicken for $100 so you can budget properly, and dropping the $3400 on your mortgage comes out way ahead
4. Want to do a real comparison? Ask the company to run your numbers. Then come back and post the inputs and results. Then someone (mifef07, others) will be happy to run the alternative. Not the "Do Nothing" alternative that UFF/MMA only compares against. But the prepay your mortgage yourself. No one here stands to make any money, no matter what you do. The UFF /MMA folks stand to make a hefty $2500 MLM / pyramid weighted commission, ONLY IF THEY HOOK YOU Run the numbers. We'll help you. (And hoping you are not a victim yet - nor a scamster pretending to be a customer, which has happened here many times) Then decide based on
1) Who is objective (i.e does not make money off of you)\
2) A fact based comparison against all alternatives, not just the ones that they set up |
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kamalktk
- Ancient Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 4:48p
JOrsak said:
I am no mathematician.
Unfortunately for you, some people on here know a thing or two about math. By my count you are the 16th person to come to these forums to tout this. All 15 previous times, each and every claim made by the UFF/MMA shill has been completely and utterly debunked. We use UFF's official numbers and presentations to do so (they are freely available from UFF itself), and we've had our numbers run by official UFF representatives using the actual software. It's pointless for you to try again (not that I think that will stop you). You can't say "do the math", we've done it. You can't say "you need the software", we've had numbers done by official UFF reps in this very thread, and we would come out thousands of dollars worse off if we did the MMA. There is no secret to the software. Will you claims it's written by MIT mathematicians this time, or NASA Aerospace engineers, or Tibetan monks, or someone else? Here, I'll write the program for you in two lines of code.
10 print "Pay every free penny towards your mortgage!"
20 goto 10.
That's it, that's the whole package. I'm sorry you paid $3500 for that. I would have sold it to you for the bargain price of $3400. |
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JOrsak
- Member
rated:
posted: Sep. 22, 2007 @ 4:49p
mikef07 said:JOrsak said:ellory said:JOrsak said:LOL! Thanks. (I think.) As I have said... I'm no mathematician. I do understand the concept though and it's actually quite simple to me. It did take me a few times of hearing it before I got it. I'm interested to see if others here will understand the concept / see how it works.
Thanks for being honest that you have no clue on how badly you are scamming people.
But you've just gotten the buzzer for dodging quetisons
So, let's try again
JOrsak, you are another "new member" huckster looking for marks and a $2500 MLM commission
We throughly understand
1.The scam misinformation techniques you use
2. The massive MLM commissions you get paid
You want to play here? Be the first UFF /MMA advocate to actually answer the questions that every advocate has dodged. Start at page 1, and answer the questions. On point. Don't spew marketing hype. And don't tell us we don't understand. I personally understand so well that I need a shower to clean up after each exchange
Otherwise just go somewhere else to commit fraud
WOW! Whatever dude. I just typed a whole freakin page of explanation to show you how it works. Instead of responding to that, maybe asking a question related to that, you just repeat your tripe and animosity and the idiotic "Start at page one and answer the questions."
Grow up and act like an adult and have a civilized conversation or just drop off.
Just answer the questions that I wrote above:
I will write them again. You can put the answer next to each one.
How long does MMA say it will take utnil your mortgae is paid off?
What was the amount you owed on your mortgage when you began this program?
What is the total amount of interest you will pay by using this program? (This number should be in the total interest paid column on your analysis)
What is the interest rate of your mortgage?
Very simple questions and these can prove us all wrong.
Sorry, I didn't see your post in between the others.
"How long does MMA say it will take utnil your mortgae is paid off?"
8.2 years
"What was the amount you owed on your mortgage when you began this program?"
$138,297.71
"What is the total amount of interest you will pay by using this program?"
$40,132.65
"What is the interest rate of your mortgage?"
6% |
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