confuseu said:kamalktk said:"Moderator Comment: This account (JOrsak) has been suspended for affiliation with United First Financial."
got caught....


Haven't been here in a while....so much for freedom of speech. Who cares if JOrsak is affiliated with UFF. Just how is this person affiliated? And why after the slanderous/liable accusations against UFF by numerous "FW posers" are they not suspended. Wait till this gets posted....The credibility of this forum (or lack there of) has come to light.

Who cares? I do. JOrsak said he was a potential customer who was considering buying the "product." The fact is, if he is making $2500 average commission per sale, then he is hardly objective. Nor are the questions real questions, but merely a "front" to try and further the misrepresentation of the MLM scam that you can come out ahead by
a) wasting $3500
and
b) borrowing money at a high interest rate to pay off a lower interest rate loan

Ellory said:But you [confuseu] are also getting a commission every time you sell the product. Hardly makes you objective as compared to everyone here who does not make money when the product is sold - or not. Either way we make $0.Quite right, that not one of us regulars that bash the UFF scam will benefit regardless of whether the scam is sold or not.

But a confused visitor would do well to consider that this forum exists, and is frequented by fairly savvy people looking for ways to make money through personal financial means. Why in the world would we all nix it, if it was actually a good thing ? The only possible answer is that we are all, every blasted last one of us, idiots, who cannot see the jewel that is UFF. We would also have to add to the list of idiots Jack M. Guttentag, former Jacob Safra Professor of International Banking at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, among others.

At this juncture, all I can say to someone considering buying this product is if you are convinced that you are smarter and have a keener insight into UFF than everybody else who has posted against this scheme, and are convinced you can debunk the professor's arguments (that have also been reviewed here), then by all means, buy the product and be happy.

But beyond that, please, please stfu. Shills violate FatWallet's T&C, and will be barred.

FW does not allow free advertising. A shill is banned for the same reason a URL with a referral link is. FW has this policy to protect their revenue. Almost all of us support the policy because without it we would be overrun by advertising, both open and covert, and not least scams by the boatload.

Have a look at many a newsgroup to see just how destructive free advertising can be.

This has NOTHING to do with freedom of speech.

EricGo07 said:FW does not allow free advertising. A shill is banned for the same reason a URL with a referral link is. FW has this policy to protect their revenue. Almost all of us support the policy because without it we would be overrun by advertising, both open and covert, and not least scams by the boatload.

Have a look at many a newsgroup to see just how destructive free advertising can be.

This has NOTHING to do with freedom of speech.

What they should have done is made us aware of his affiliation and warned him if he advertised any of the UFF links he would be banned. Not one of his posts had anything that was bannable IMO.

ellory said:confuseu,you may (or may not) be a customer. But you are also getting a commission every time you sell the product. Hardly makes you objective as compared to everyone here who does not make money when the product is sold - or not. Either way we make $0.

Every analysis that has been run
- logic
- formulas
- examples

Demonstrates that a simple prepayment method always out performs the UFF /MMA scheme. And that more than 100% of the benefits of the UFF / MMA scheme are due to prepaying the mortgage. (Prepaying drives more than 100% of the benefits because it needs to overcome the hurdle of negatively performing high interest HELOC and the $3500 up fromt payment - $2500 commission) "lost money" to buy an inferior product.


Repeating marketing hype does not make it true.

i'm not selling it.

confuseu said:
How do you make your $? Maybe we should evaluate your worth to see if your ripping people off by how you make your living. The MMA is not the only program out there...I have not heard ONE complaint about the MAP program which is $1250 for a CD with no interactive software or customer service...it too is considered "direct marketing"... What about Mr Gills book for $199.00 again, no software, or customer service....AND he really does sell his program at seminars....! Please, where is the outrage for the $.50 CD being sold for $1250? Your a loser in life...plain and simple...and I can't help that. I love the MMA.
The pwned as a spammer Harj Gill?
you can do it all for $99, as I previously linked.
We'll see how long you last.

confuseu said: Moderator...I guess I know where this is going...let them claim scam all up and down without any "moderation", let them make loads of false statements without the proof to back it up...without "moderation"...let them call me names...without moderation...and you moderate me?....classy, very classy.
Classy?

- Is it classy to get the facts behind the UFF / MMA MLM misrepresentations that have been repeatedly posted in this thread?
- Is it classy to uncover that new member posters, pretending to be UFF customers, are really affiliated with UFF and make money from sales?
- Is it classy to demonstrate that anyone, even someone with no financial skill, can easily beat what UFF portrays, at $0 out of pocket costs - and save thousands of dollars interest over the UFF plan?
- Is it classy to do all of this, when no one here makes 1 cent, either way, whether someone buys or doesn't buy UFF/MMA misrepresented "systems" or not?

If that is classy, then I proudly accept the title

Now, confuseu, are you a customer? Have you purchased the software? And, please post your inputs and results from the "program/system" so we can determine, using math, how it compares to the other financial alternatives. Then we can have a fact based analysis.

I think this is the 3rd or 4th time we've suggested you be part of a fact based analysis. You have dodged answering the above requests each time. Seems to me that facts should be something that we all want on the table

EricGo07 said:Virgil27 said:Also note that, if Moderation really thought United First Financial was a clear and obvious scam, it would have been removed by now.You MUST be joking. I'm interested in hearing how you define scam.

I estimate there are 100 forum regulars who have taken the time to call UFF a scam, and not one who has posted otherwise. Compare this to two shills, and two new members of uncertain affiliation to UFF who tout it.

Marketing and salesmanship of the product? Some people are problably being scammed in how it is presented it to them but that is not UFFs fault necessarily. Many businesses use deceptive marketing that are large companies and those companies would not be consiedered a scam.

The product being a scam? Not at all. If you see the figures and are happy with those figures, agree to those figures, and buy the product based on those figures, and reach your goal using those figures, then you got exactly waht you paid for. Could you ahve done it cheaper? Yes as that has been proven. People pay different prices for the same exact products and services all the time. I charge one client one price and then charge another client a completely different price. I am not scamming them.

This is a prepayment of mortgage service/product that costs $3500. Not a scam, although the marketing may be scammy. The only problem I have is that if they are telling people that this requires no extra principal payment throughout the life of the loan. If they say that, then they are indeed running a scam.

The UFF website said:A side-by-side comparison of a traditional mortgage repayment shows the savings potential using the MMA system vs continuing to make standard mortgage payments. A 30-year, $136,000 mortgage at 5.25%, when paid through conventional monthly payments, will result in a 30-year total repayment of $270,784 – nearly twice the cost of the home. The MMA program can help repay the same mortgage in 11.3 years with a total repayment of $181,217. An incredible savings of $89,566 is realized on the same income, with the same mortgage, at the same interest rate, with little to no changes in your standard of living."little" is in the eye of the beholder I suppose, but it is NEVER true that additional pre-payments from salary can be avoided, if the mortgage payoff is to decrease from 30 to 11.3 years.

Let's take a moment though, and stick a number on "little":
Pre UFF amortization schedule payment: $751
UFF amortization schedule payment: 1328.95
--take off ~ $5 - $20 dollars monthly from salary float, and we are left with an
out of pocket additional monthly obligation of about $550.