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I have been approached my a reputable person in the community about the United First Financial Money Merge Account method. I have read the numerous posts on here, but I still am having trouble deciphering this product or the ways of doing it myself. I want to be more knowledgeable about this product. It seems to me that for the ease of this program it could possibly be worth it. I do know the cost is $3,000. I am thinking I am crazy for this.
So the details I understand are...
I do not change my mortgage with the current provider. I will need to get a HELOC from my bank that lets me pay interest only.

Current Mortgage balance: 138,000 at 5.75% for 28 more years
Current monthly payment is $1115 for which we then pay $100 extra towards principal.
We take home around 5,000 a month from salary before bills.

With this program, by depositing money into our HELOC and paying bills at the correct time of the month, and by paying $100 extra we should have our house paid off in 12.5 years. ($500 a month would allow us to pay it off in 8.8 years) For the first scenario I would be saving $85,000 in interest over the 12 years.

With not having the time to do this on my own, would this work for us? If not, I want to be able to explain to this person why I should not do this and be able to explain why not.

Thank you!!
oh yeah... when explained to me, the names Donald Trump, Richard Branson, that National Bank of Scotland were just some of the names that have used this idea


Edit by Moderator: Thank you for your participation. Please note that there is also discussion about this topic Here.

Message edited by: FatWallet moderator on 2007-09-21 06:57:19 CDT

EDIT 7/19/08:

New name, even worse scam
In an effort to escape the growing wave of bad publicity, the "inventive minds" behind UFF have rebranded themselves and have introduced a "new" product to con people. Complete with "factorial math" and religious references, The Jubilee Project is being launched - same con, more victims. Please, just stay away (Note the new name is intended to "break the google index that have enabled threads like this one to show up as #5 in google when someone searches on United First. The hope is that the Jubilee Project will be clean from threads like ours that show up when people do google research

 

Added for the benefit of google indexing scam Jubilee Project UFF United First Financial, Money Merge, Scam, MMA, scam, U1st, U1stnational, United First National, UFirst
The bottom line (summarized by ellory):


  • If you want to get rid of your mortgage sooner, prepay it yourself
  • If you need a budget / financial tool, use something like Quicken or MS Money for 2% of the price ($70)
  • If you want to use the same exact software for a much smaller monthly fee, get Money Desktop"
  • If you need motivation and discipline, get someone to help you with that ($3,500 buys a whole lot of counseling)
  • At $3500 MMA / UFF is very expensive. Its sales force is highly motivated to get you to buy an inferior product to get their $2500 commission per sale (referenced off their own MLM website). And it is expensive in three ways:

    • The initial $3500 cost
    • The roll over of the $3500 into your mortgage, causing you to pay interest on $3500 over the entire lifetime of your mortgage
    • The subpar performance you get by borrowing interest at a higher rate (HELOC) to reduce a loan at a lower rate (mortgage)




Kiplinger's says: "Don't Fall for UFirst"

Long awaited... and the news for U1st is not good. The news for us? Exactly the points we have made. And I'll take a Kiplinger's review, any day, over the infomercial trade mags that UFF has issue them "awards"

Don't Fall for This Mortgage Pitch
Prepay your home loan yourself and skip the $3,500 software fee.
By Pat Mertz Esswein, Associate Editor
From Kiplinger's Personal Finance magazine, May 2008

You may have received e-mails touting a system that promises to help you pay off your mortgage early. This mortgage-acceleration package -- which includes a software program -- relies heavily on the use of a home-equity line of credit. The software analyzes your financial data to reveal when and how much extra you should prepay.

The Money Merge Account system, sold by United First Financial, costs $3,500. For the price, you may also receive a recruiting pitch. United First is a multilevel marketer that encourages salespeople to bring others aboard, passing the profit up the food chain.

With or without expensive software, the fact is that the more discretionary income you can commit to prepayment, the quicker the mortgage becomes history. We suggest you keep your $3,500 and do it yourself without having to fend off a pushy salesperson.

For example, divide your monthly payment by 12 and pay that much extra each month. Doing so would allow a homeowner with a $230,000 mortgage at 6% to cut about 5.5 years off a 30-year mortgage (see our How Advantageous are Extra Payments? calculator).

Is prepaying your mortgage even a good idea? That depends on whether you have better things to do with spare cash. You could create a reserve fund so that you don't have to borrow in an emergency or stash the money in a tax-deferred college- or retirement-savings account.

Salespeople challenge whether you'll follow through on your own -- as if spending $3,500 for software will ensure that you'll use it. Tell that to couch potatoes whose high-end exercise equipment gathers dust.



See this excellent fatwallet explanation of how the scam works

See this excellent 3rd party explanation of why not to use "equity accelleration"






What UFF / MMA WON"T tell you. Get an analysis of how you can easily beat their plan - FOR FREE




Their "answer" is in their FAQ. Throw all your "idle cash" at your mortgage. i.e a prepayment. If you need the cash, borrow it back from your HELOC. No magic at all. And entirely dependent on you having cash to prepay your mortgage.

Ripped from UFF FAQs said:



How can homeowners pay their mortgage off early with little to no change in lifestyle and with out increasing minimum monthly payments?
A.

The Money Merge Account system and service is designed to work with a homeowners existing lifestyle. This system helps homeowners to reduce both the interest and time owing on their existing mortgage by repositioning their unused idle money which normally sits in their accounts and their regular monthly expense money until it is needed to pay expenses. When money is needed for expenses, it can be accessed through their Line of Credit. This system helps homeowners to strategically position their money where it provides much more financial benefit than sitting in a standard checking or savings account. Vast financial details programmed into the MMA software assist homeowners in some of the greatest time and interest savings possible.

The "vast financial details programmed into the software" equates to take all your cash and use it to prepay your mortgage principal. (Oh yeah, and pay UFF $3500 for that masterful insight)



Then for the sleight of hand, the remainder of the benefit is

2.Draw one month's mortgage payment plus "optional" free cash and send it to pay your mortgage one month early and prepay additional principle from HELOC
3. Deposit your paycheck back to the HELOC
4. Repeat monthly
5, If you have an emergency and need cash, draw down the HELOC

And the magic sophistication is a budget tool that takes your income and subtracts your expenses and tells you, how much more free cash you have to prepay principal.

I have to hand it to them. Very clever marketing and packaging. And just this side of legal.

Worth $3500 to say that you can save interest by taking all your cash and prepaying your mortgage? And use your HELOC for emergency. And adjust how much extra you should pay each month? Not to me



See MikeF's experience. He actually called UFF and had them create a plan for him (for free). Then compared it to what he could more easily do on his own. Doing it yourself beats UFF hands down




=================================

And, for this program that "originated in Australia" - the news is not good - it is under investigation by law enforcement and securities organizations for false, deceptive and misleading business practices

Consumer Action in Australia article on offset accounts. There are consumer complaints that are detailed in the report as well.

Oops Mortgage Accelerator under fire; Australian Securities and Investments Commission taking action against mortgage brokers.
US promoters are correct to say that this program was sold in Australia before it was “discovered” by US borrowers. However consumer organisations such as ours, and our national financial services regulator - Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) - concluded years ago that there were no savings to be made, and that promoters were engaged in unlawful conduct. Examples and charts showing massive savings have all been shown to include significant increases in payments being made to the mortgage (in addition to the funds deposited temporarily). Any savings made by depositing regular salary into the LOC amount to possibly a few hundred dollars per year, and unless the borrower has significant funds to deposit, these savings are less than the additional interest paid on the LOC - even if the LOC is quite small (say $50,000). Borrowers who pay any money for software, monitoring or other services, are often thousands of dollars worse off.

I don’t personally know anyone who has used a LOC in this way, apart from consumers who come to our agency for assistance.

Our regulator ASIC says, on its website:

“in reality there is no magic trick or secret type of loan that will let you own your home sooner. Substantial savings are only achieved by consistently making additional payments on your mortgage. You therefore need to be very careful when brokers claim that you can own your home sooner and make substantial savings by using a line of credit mortgage facility.”

ASIC has taken action against mortgage brokers promoting this type of product, as well as companies providing calculators to consumers and brokers. This action has resulted in:

* The withdrawal of a LOC Calculator that was on over 100 websites;
* Changes being made to a “Simulator” Calculator
* Court orders (by consent) against a company promoting “mortgage reduction”, including orders that the company write to past customers advising they may have a right to claim loss or damage caused by misleading and deceptive conduct.

The misleading and deceptive conduct included showing clients comparisons between loans arranged by the company and standard loans, that represented that by switching loans they would save money and pay off their home loan sooner but failed to adequately explain that to obtain this benefit clients would need to make extra repayments.

Despite the action from the regulators above, there is still some promotion of this type of scheme, but much less than in the US.



07-144 Court finds major mortgage broker’s conduct misleading and deceptive

No credit for misleading loan calculators
We acted to close down loan calculators on more than 100 websites of Australian financial institutions, including banks, credit unions, other lenders and finance brokers. The calculators suggested that using a line of credit will result in the consumer paying off their home loan more quickly.


7-95 ASIC obtains injunctions against loan calculator operator

Thursday 12 April 2007


ASIC has obtained orders in the Supreme Court of Queensland today against Gold Coast company, Etracka Pty Ltd (Etracka), following concerns over a loan calculator licensed to mortgage brokers throughout Australia.

These orders follow allegations by ASIC that the information provided by the company’s Express Simulator calculator was false, misleading or deceptive or likely to mislead or deceive.

The Express Simulator is currently accessible to members of the general public via a number of mortgage brokers' websites. It is also accessible via a website operated and controlled by Etracka located at www.etracka.com

The Court ordered that Etracka add a warning to Steps 1 and 4 of the Express Simulator, and to the Simulation Express Report which is subsequently emailed to the user of the calculator. This warning will now advise users that if they have not elected to make an additional monthly repayment into the Non-transactional Loan (which is as high as reasonably possible having regard to the user’s financial circumstances and the terms and conditions of their loan), the calculator will not provide a reliable comparison between a Non-transactional Loan and a Transactional Loan used in accordance with the eTracka Strategy.

The Court also ordered that Etracka send corrective notices to its members, clients, and licensees, and users of the Express Simulator calculator within seven days.


And there's plenty more

If you'd like to have your analysis posted here, you can email it to
ktk44122@yahoo.com
Kamalktk has created a throwaway email account just for receiving this.
Post here when you email Kamalktk, as he will not check this throwaway account otherwise. Once received your personal informaiton will be scrubbed if it's not already, and the analysis will be posted for FWF to view.


Here are two youtube videos explaining how the software works and why it will undeperform simple DIY prepayments.
Video #1
Video #2

Financial guru Dave Ramsey goes head to head with a MMA representative ( 6.6 meg mp3)

Message edited by: iSeller on 2009-09-15 10:28:03 CDT

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Search for offset mortgage or mortgage accelerators. There are several old threads here covering them. Here are a few:

link 1

link 2

link 3


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I could add about 5 more links to that, but it does not answer one of my questions. If I am going to save that much money, and I don't have the time to figure out a schedule of when to transfer funds to and from a HELOC, is it worth buying into this program to schedule it for me.


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The truth is out there


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I have a MMA account and I just love it. Watch this www.alifechanger.com (4 min. NBC News Video)


Moderator Comment: This account (bcdond) has been suspended for affiliation with United First Financial. — Sep. 25, 2007 @ 4:08pm
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bcdond said:I have a MMA account and I just love it. Watch this www.alifechanger.com (4 min. NBC News Video)

Here we go again, just WATCH the # of new members who signup to say "this is great"...this is nothing more than the NEXT MLM SCAM preying on the ignorant

Message edited by: SUCKISSTAPLES on 2007-06-19 06:10:15 CDT
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Visualbang, im going to explain it to you, so please read this long post....

visualbang said:ICurrent Mortgage balance: 138,000 at 5.75% for 28 more years
Current monthly payment is $1115 for which we then pay $100 extra towards principal.
We take home around 5,000 a month from salary before bills.

With this program, by depositing money into our HELOC and paying bills at the correct time of the month, and by paying $100 extra we should have our house paid off in 12.5 years. ($500 a month would allow us to pay it off in 8.8 years) For the first scenario I would be saving $85,000 in interest over the 12 years.


FIRST let me point out what I see as an obvious error with what you posted above...you say your payment is $1115 per month and you add $100, so you pay $1215 each month...but guess what? there is NO WAY a 30 year 5.75% fixed rate loan for about $140k is $1115 per month! Its more like $850-900/month, and you can use various mortgage calculators on the net to prove it.

NOW The reason your payment is $1115 is very likely because your taxes and insurance are included with your mortgage payment. And What I bet this SCAM "FRIEND" is doing is saying put $1215 amount towards the mortgage (which is really making a $350-400/month additional principal payment), and IGNORING your tax and insurance impounds.

Also, I bet he is assuming you keep a fairly large amount of savings in the bank, which would be kept in this account instead, reducing average daily balance.

As Ive explained in several threads, using the math (see here), how YOU WILL NOT save money moving to a higher rate loan, and you WONT reduce your mortgage just by using a HELOC and your monthly paycheck proceeds, unless you make HUGE additional principal payments!

Do you trust a huckster with a computer program saying that you will save $$ if you give them $3000 vs. people with nothing to gain by telling you its a fraud??


visualbang said:I could add about 5 more links to that, but it does not answer one of my questions. If I am going to save that much money, and I don't have the time to figure out a schedule of when to transfer funds to and from a HELOC, is it worth buying into this program to schedule it for me.A software program wont magically do anything to save you money... a computer software program telling you when to pay your bills isnt going to magically reduce your mortgage by 20 years unless you are making LARGE principal prepayments.

Hopefully this is the last time I need to post about this SCAM GARBAGE

Message edited by: SUCKISSTAPLES on 2007-06-19 06:35:17 CDT
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Not really...I will be glad to show you my numbers...I have saved 5000 since Feb. and I have already rec. 300 back from my Cash Back card.I think people would rather hear from a satisfied customer than someone who has never tried the product.

Message edited by: FatWallet moderator on 2007-06-19 07:41:38 CDT
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You have to be brain damaged to believe that a loan at a higher rate will cost less than a loan at a lower rate. Go back to 3rd grade arithmetic, and this time, don't cut class.

Anyone who falls for this nonsense, fails the IQ test.


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I know you think you are right...there are some things you do not understand about the product and what it does. If I knew what you did I would feel the same way but if you would like to talk I am sure I can show you some of the things you are missing. Besides your comments would carry more weight if you tried the product...found out it did not work...then got your money back from the guarantee the company offers. Don't you think? The fact remains that I have saved alot of money following the program.


SUCKISSTAPLES said:Visualbang, im going to explain it to you, so please read this long post....

visualbang said:ICurrent Mortgage balance: 138,000 at 5.75% for 28 more years
Current monthly payment is $1115 for which we then pay $100 extra towards principal.
We take home around 5,000 a month from salary before bills.

With this program, by depositing money into our HELOC and paying bills at the correct time of the month, and by paying $100 extra we should have our house paid off in 12.5 years. ($500 a month would allow us to pay it off in 8.8 years) For the first scenario I would be saving $85,000 in interest over the 12 years.


FIRST let me point out what I see as an obvious error with what you posted above...you say your payment is $1115 per month and you add $100, so you pay $1215 each month...but guess what? there is NO WAY a 30 year 5.75% fixed rate loan for about $140k is $1115 per month! Its more like $850-900/month, and you can use various mortgage calculators on the net to prove it.

NOW The reason your payment is $1115 is very likely because your taxes and insurance are included with your mortgage payment. And What I bet this SCAM "FRIEND" is doing is saying put $1215 amount towards the mortgage (which is really making a $350-400/month additional principal payment), and IGNORING your tax and insurance impounds.

Also, I bet he is assuming you keep a fairly large amount of savings in the bank, which would be kept in this account instead, reducing average daily balance.

As Ive explained in several threads, using the math (see here), how YOU WILL NOT save money moving to a higher rate loan, and you WONT reduce your mortgage just by using a HELOC and your monthly paycheck proceeds, unless you make HUGE additional principal payments!

Do you trust a huckster with a computer program saying that you will save $$ if you give them $3000 vs. people with nothing to gain by telling you its a fraud??


visualbang said:I could add about 5 more links to that, but it does not answer one of my questions. If I am going to save that much money, and I don't have the time to figure out a schedule of when to transfer funds to and from a HELOC, is it worth buying into this program to schedule it for me.A software program wont magically do anything to save you money... a computer software program telling you when to pay your bills isnt going to magically reduce your mortgage by 20 years unless you are making LARGE principal prepayments.

Hopefully this is the last time I need to post about this SCAM GARBAGE

Message edited by: FatWallet moderator on 2007-06-19 07:42:09 CDT
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WalStMonky said:You have to be brain damaged to believe that a loan at a higher rate will cost less than a loan at a lower rate. Go back to 3rd grade arithmetic, and this time, don't cut class.

Anyone who falls for this nonsense, fails the IQ test.


I can show you just how it works if you really want to know. It's not magic it's just math. If you meet with me and you are right then you can tell everyone that you proved me wrong and more people will listen.

Message edited by: FatWallet moderator on 2007-06-19 07:42:23 CDT
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Math is not 2+2=3. Your product is a scam, and your promotion has been reported to the moderator. Hopefully you won't be able to scam too many feeble minded idiots in the meantime.


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The math simply does not work. Rather than leaving all of your extra money in your "offset mortgage" bank account, you'd be better off over the long run putting your extra money in a stock account and once you have enough in your stock account to pay off your mortgage, then you'd have the choice of paying it off or the smarter choice would be to leave it in the stock account. Who wants to pay off thier 6% mortgage anyways, when you would be averaging 8+% in a stock account? Do the math.

Your priorities should be like this:

1. Get the matching on your 401K
2. Fully fund your Roth
3. Max out your 401K to the IRS limit
4. Fund personal stock account with anything additional


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bcdond said:I can show you just how it works if you really want to know. It's not magic it's just math. If you meet with me and you are right then you can tell everyone that you proved me wrong and more people will listen.Show the math here then. Oops, is this another one of those "complex" math?

isn't nice of this guy to spend time learn so much double talk just to show how satsfied a customer he is? How nice...

With so much "MLM" like talk I feel like I need a shower.

I doubt we can convince the OP, math or logic ain't his strong suit, just search his prior posts.


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lostdude said:bcdond said:I can show you just how it works if you really want to know. It's not magic it's just math. If you meet with me and you are right then you can tell everyone that you proved me wrong and more people will listen.Show the math here then. Oops, is this another one of those "complex" math?

isn't nice of this guy to spend time learn so much double talk just to show how satsfied a customer he is? How nice...

With so much "MLM" like talk I feel like I need a shower.

I doubt we can convince the OP, math or logic ain't his strong suit, just search his prior posts.


The fact still remains their is no one here or anywhere that has tried the product that has said it does not work. Your understanding of the product is not accurate so your conclusions will be inaccurate. I will tell you this much though...with the info you have your conclusions are are right!!! But there is some additional info you need then you might see what I see and you can save the kind of money I am saving. There is no need to get ugly or be rude just take an honest look at all the info and then come to your conclusions. wouldn't that be better?


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VirginiaBob said:The math simply does not work. Rather than leaving all of your extra money in your "offset mortgage" bank account, you'd be better off over the long run putting your extra money in a stock account and once you have enough in your stock account to pay off your mortgage, then you'd have the choice of paying it off or the smarter choice would be to leave it in the stock account. Who wants to pay off thier 6% mortgage anyways, when you would be averaging 8+% in a stock account? Do the math.

Your priorities should be like this:

1. Get the matching on your 401K
2. Fully fund your Roth
3. Max out your 401K to the IRS limit
4. Fund personal stock account with anything additional


The guy that first promoted the 401k met with the same type of opposition. I think we are all glad he did not listen to his critics.


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bcdond said:The fact still remains their is no one here or anywhere that has tried the product that has said it does not work. Your understanding of the product is not accurate so your conclusions will be inaccurate. I will tell you this much though...with the info you have your conclusions are are right!!! But there is some additional info you need then you might see what I see and you can save the kind of money I am saving. There is no need to get ugly or be rude just take an honest look at all the info and then come to your conclusions. wouldn't that be better?Do I need to know this secret handshake to know this moneysaving secret? You are not the first shill to post about how wonderful it is and it turns out they are just "really dumb people (TM)" after they post their "secret" You may not be such a person but if you have any good info, post it here.

This is not some anti-itch cream for god sake, math will show if it works or not.


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bcdond said:

The guy that first promoted the 401k met with the same type of opposition. I think we are all glad he did not listen to his critics.


The guy who first promoted pyramid schemes and nigerian lotteries also met with the same type of opposition. The difference in these and a 401K is the math.


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Doh! I figured it out! How could I have been so dense?!? It really is simple math...you collect commissions from lining up suckers to buy into this scam, and that pays your mortgage down much much faster than if you didn't get the commissions!! But wait...do I have to sign up for the money merge account myself? I could line up suckers to earn commissions, and pay off a motgage+HELOC+HY checking account combo much faster than using the scam for my own mortgage...

Do I win a prize for figuring out the secret?


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